Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Bishop Gantry on December 09, 2001, 03:29:00 pm
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Whats the diffrance from subspace and Hyperspace?...
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Ummm, I think hyperspace is just going really really fast. And subspace is a whole nother plain/dimension thing. Didn't we discuss this already?
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Hyperspace is real space... you know, the stuff we see in the sky at night... the stuff that the astronauts travel in to get to the moon...
Subspace is a warphole to another part of a galaxy/universe. If you've played FS1, the final mission in it was a subspace mission.
You warp into subspace every time you 'return to base'.
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Originally posted by Joey_21:
Hyperspace is real space... you know, the stuff we see in the sky at night... the stuff that the astronauts travel in to get to the moon...
Subspace is a warphole to another part of a galaxy/universe. If you've played FS1, the final mission in it was a subspace mission.
You warp into subspace every time you 'return to base'.
Funny, I always thought Real Space was what we live in. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
To my, Hyperspace and it's permutations (ultraspace, space-plus, etc) implies a higher-energy environment ('above' realspace) whereas Subspace (infraspace, etc) imply a lower energy environment.
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Shrikes on the money. Some panel of scientists and physicists at the Toronto Trek sci-fi convention a few years ago was talking about Hyperspace and Subspace (I guess the theories are out there) and they are roughly like what Shrike just pointed out.
Both are theoretical potentials for FTL travel.
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Thing is, in Hyperspace, because it's a higher-E environment, stuff like lightspeed might be significantly higher than it is in our universe....
And subspace, being a lower energy environment, might allow us to go further on the same amount of energy, because we're bringing in load of energy from a high energy realm to a low energy one.
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Don't know the difference in real life but in sci-fi the difference appears to be that in hyperspace you can go in any direction while in subspace you can only follow the subspace corridors.
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I don't know, but in star wars, hyperspace is normal space, coz they can collide with stars and so on while in hyperspace.
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Originally posted by venom2506:
I don't know, but in star wars, hyperspace is normal space, coz they can collide with stars and so on while in hyperspace.
Nah... those are just the "shadows" that real gravity objects create in hyperspace. That's what those Interdictors(sp?) are for, to create those gravity shadows so ships can't go to hyperspace.
Plus, hyperspace is like subspace in that you have to know where you're going. You wouldn't want to come out of hyperspace or subspace in the corona of a star or a superdense asteroid field (although Command loves to send capships through asteroid fields (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)).
Joe.
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Mathmatically, which is a bit different than what Shrike and Icefire have been saying, subspace refers to lower dimensions within the four dimensions of our normal space (lenght, height, depth, time), and hyperspace refers to higher dimensions.
Though I really like the energy idea.
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Originally posted by joek:
Nah... those are just the "shadows" that real gravity objects create in hyperspace. That's what those Interdictors(sp?) are for, to create those gravity shadows so ships can't go to hyperspace.
so what with solo talking about going through a supernova?
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He meant going through the shadow that it cast in hyperspace. If you pass through a mass shadow, you will be instantly destroyed. That is why all hyperdrives have automatic cut-off switches that send the ship back into realspace if they sense a mass shadow. Uncalculated jumps, however, don't enable the cut off switch, so an uncalculated jump could kill you.
Interdictor cruisers don't really create a gravity well, they merely simulate it to fool the cut-off switch(except for Interdictors in the NJO books, which actually do generate gravity wells, but I consider the NJO interdictors to be a breach of canon).
[This message has been edited by ^Graff (edited 12-10-2001).]
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Are you talking about Yuuzhan Vong interdictors?
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SO if you made a Hypercannon and fired it the beam/bolt/pulse would smash into the shadow and materilize inside the object of the shadow?
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Not the Vong interdictors. In two if the NJO books (the second stackpole one and the first edge of victory one) the interdictors actually create a gravity well. In one, they ues it to force a Vong cruiser to shunt all its dovin basals into its drive, so that it will not be pulled into a moon of Ithor. By forcing it to direct its dovin basals into propulsion, they can't be used for shielding.
In the other, an interdictor is used to disrupt a system's lagrange points so that a NR fleet can jump into the system in an area that the Vong haven't picketed. It's like this: a jump node is surrounded by mjolonirs, and you have to get into the system. What do you do? Disrupt the gravitic balance of the system by sending an interdictor through the node so that the node moves to a different spot, away from the Mjolonirs, just long enough to get a fleet into the system. Of course, the sentries will kill the cruiser, but it is better to lose one cruiser than an entire fleet.
[This message has been edited by ^Graff (edited 12-10-2001).]
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Originally posted by Bishop Gantry:
SO if you made a Hypercannon and fired it the beam/bolt/pulse would smash into the shadow and materilize inside the object of the shadow?
Hypercannon? What's that?
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Well a hypercannon could be anything ballistic, missile, beam weapon anything but instead of sending the entire ship into hyperspace it only opens a small rift into hyperspace that the beam bolt slug enters into... the additional force the slug woulf aquire from hyperspace should be tremendous... when it exsits hyperspace quiet a formidable weapon if it works that is
example Dreadnought fires hypercannon at Cruiser... nothing happens because the slug immidatley enters hyperspace only to microseconds later exit in the shadow of the cruiser... while it travelled trough hyperspace it would have absorbed tremendous amounts of energy
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Originally posted by venom2506:
so what with solo talking about going through a supernova?
I don't know. He also used the term parsecs to refer to time. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Joe.
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Originally posted by joek:
I don't know. He also used the term parsecs to refer to time. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Joe.
yeah, luca messed up on this one lol (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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George's excuse was that it was the distance he traveled, as the kessel run is in the center of a cluster of black holes. Smugglers try to find the shortest route out of the cluster, and Han Solo found a route that was only 3 parsecs long.
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bump is the hypercannon possible?
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Originally posted by Shrike:
To my, Hyperspace and it's permutations (ultraspace, space-plus, etc) implies a higher-energy environment ('above' realspace) whereas Subspace (infraspace, etc) imply a lower energy environment.
Well I got my speculation from the ship/wing editor where it has the arrival location. Hyperspace is in there which basically has the ship arrive in the location in which it was set. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Joey_21:
Well I got my speculation from the ship/wing editor where it has the arrival location. Hyperspace is in there which basically has the ship arrive in the location in which it was set. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
You know, after all the times I've used FRED, I've always noticed that but just never thought about it. Weird.
Joe.
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In the star wars universe, the hypercannon wouldn't work, as you need a hyperdrive to enter and exit hyperspace(gravity destroys you if you get too close, but doesn't pull you out), and a bolt doesn't have one. Also, exiting hyperspace won't give you extra energy in realspace, as it doesn't do that to the Falcon or Xwing.
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What do you do? Disrupt the gravitic balance of the system by sending an interdictor through the node so that the node moves to a different spot, away from the Mjolonirs, just long enough to get a fleet into the system. Of course, the sentries will kill the cruiser, but it is better to lose one cruiser than an entire fleet. Oops! Looks like someone figured out a tBE mission! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/drevil.gif)
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Ace
Staff member FreeSpace Watch
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Originally posted by ^Graff:
George's excuse was that it was the distance he traveled, as the kessel run is in the center of a cluster of black holes. Smugglers try to find the shortest route out of the cluster, and Han Solo found a route that was only 3 parsecs long.
Yeah, I read something about that. Got any more details on the matter? Sounded really cool. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Well yeah the falcon and Xwing exits from hyperspace in a controlled form...
The bolt however smashes into the cruiser... while it has gained powere momentum and strenght from hyperspace...
The falcon X-wings slows down before exiting hyperspace... the bolt dosent it just impact with the cruisers shadow...
And dame bet you Im gona make this Hypercannaon belivable one way or another (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Bishop Gantry:
Well yeah the falcon and Xwing exits from hyperspace in a controlled form...
The bolt however smashes into the cruiser... while it has gained powere momentum and strenght from hyperspace...
The falcon X-wings slows down before exiting hyperspace... the bolt dosent it just impact with the cruisers shadow...
And dame bet you Im gona make this Hypercannaon belivable one way or another (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
won't the ships slow down AFTER having exited from hyperspace? look at the battle of endor, when they arrive, they exit hyperspace, but clearly come close to the DS at a tremendous speed, plus in XWA, when ships arrive, they do like if they came from a light speed travel, so, very fast.
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If the bolt hits the cruiser's shadow, it is destroyed. It doesn't hit the cruiser. If you had a shell that had a hyperdrive on it, so it exited inside the cruiser's shield radius, it might work.
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they just slow down... hyperspace in the star wars enviroment is just faster then light, exactly what Einstein (sp?) mathematically calculated was to be impossible.
"She'll make .5 past lightspeed"
so basically hes saying that the falcon can go "one and a half" of what lightspeed is. Which, say you were travelling to alpha centari, would take (completly random guess) about 1000 times longer travelling at the speed of light then to travel through a wormhole, which I am guessing is simply what happens with a blackholes, where space is actually warped into a particle smaller then an electron, is forced into into the black hole, and everything else follows this new curve of space, which then reappears in another black hole.
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Originally posted by vadar_1:
they just slow down... hyperspace in the star wars enviroment is just faster then light, exactly what Einstein (sp?) mathematically calculated was to be impossible.
"She'll make .5 past lightspeed"
so basically hes saying that the falcon can go "one and a half" of what lightspeed is. Which, say you were travelling to alpha centari, would take (completly random guess) about 1000 times longer travelling at the speed of light then to travel through a wormhole, which I am guessing is simply what happens with a blackholes, where space is actually warped into a particle smaller then an electron, is forced into into the black hole, and everything else follows this new curve of space, which then reappears in another black hole.
Well, it's proven that light speed travel is possible (for exemple, 2 or 3 years ago, Italian scientists made a particle of light (lol) go faster than light). The pb is the time distorsion: a guy make a one year travel at light speed. Fine, he'll be 1 year older when he arrives. But for the other people that sisn't make the travel, 5 years will have passed.
disturbing if you ask me.
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Originally posted by vadar_1:
"She'll make .5 past lightspeed"
so basically hes saying that the falcon can go "one and a half" of what lightspeed is. Which, say you were travelling to alpha centari, would take (completly random guess) about 1000 times longer travelling at the speed of light then to travel through a wormhole, which I am guessing is simply what happens with a blackholes, where space is actually warped into a particle smaller then an electron, is forced into into the black hole, and everything else follows this new curve of space, which then reappears in another black hole.
'Point five past lightspeed' is a meaningless statement. There's no evidence that it's 1.5 times lightspeed, in fact, seeing as the Falcon arrived at Alderaan in a fairly short period of time, it's in fact impossible to be only that fast.
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In the German translation it actually says 1.5 lightspeed.And I think the "parsec" comment was originally thought to show that Solo didn't really know what he was saying. That was later changed with the shorter distance plot.
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You guys are still strange...
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Point five past light speed could be part of some scale, ie .5 of a warp factor. Also, Vadar (or was it a general?) says that they could be "anywhere in the galaxy by now".
Hyperspace = A place where a tiny amount of force makes you go REALLY fast. Created by George Lucas to avoid copyright infringement (and wasn't it Hyper-Speed?)
Subspace = A concept created by Gene Roddenberry to explain how the Enterprise could go so damn fast
But as a general rule: ITS SCIENCE F@~:!NG FICTION. Unlike real-life things commonly known as 'plot-holes' can develop where certain things are unexplainble or vary greatly from time to time. You'll never really be able to explain how the enterprises Magnesite coils create a subspace field so don't try.
As a side note: How the **** did the DeathStar get to Alderaan? Musta had some bigass engines. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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As I remember, it had a whole bunch of engines right along the "equator". However it was still pretty slow (relatively). It could hyperspace jump, although you never saw it in the movie..It would be cool to see though. Imagine a moon accelerating to lightspeed..better stay out of its way..
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Ok so theoretically a Massive metalic ball with a hyperdrive/switch would be possible as a Hypercannon...
However would it be possible to also make the ball able to create a rift trough hyperspace thus not slowing down hitting cruiser with the force it gained from hyperspace???
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Originally posted by Alikchi:
It would be cool to see though. Imagine a moon accelerating to lightspeed..better stay out of its way..
Dive Dive Dive! Hit your burners, pilot! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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hahah...I actually use that as an aim alert for one person coming online....hehehe (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)
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Originally posted by Bishop Gantry:
However would it be possible to also make the ball able to create a rift trough hyperspace thus not slowing down hitting cruiser with the force it gained from hyperspace???
Probably. Try asking that at spacebattles.com. They might know more about it than me.
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Originally posted by Starwing:
In the German translation it actually says 1.5 lightspeed.And I think the "parsec" comment was originally thought to show that Solo didn't really know what he was saying. That was later changed with the shorter distance plot.
It was done not because Solo didn't know, as he obviously did, if he can understand how a hyperdrive works. George was the one who messed up, and thought up the distance to explain away his mistake.
Also, in the extended universe, it's the hyperdrive's class(the Falcon has a class 0.5 hyperdrive, Xwings have a class 1, SSDs have a class 2, verpine adventurers have a class 7, etc). The lower the #, the faster the hyperdrive.
1.5 lightspeed could also mean the speed IN hyperspace, not the speed relative to realspace.
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Originally posted by an0n:
Unlike real-life things commonly known as 'plot-holes' can develop where certain things are unexplainble or vary greatly from time to time.
I don't know... quantum plot-holes are spontaneously created and destroyed all the time. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif) They just don't last long enough for them to affect the newtonian universe... Well maybe near a blackhole (but then again, isn't that like a cosmic plot hole right there?).
Kill me now. Cheezy quantum comedy is a capital offense in most nations.
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--Mik
http://www.404error.com
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in your first incident they used that indicator not to push it into a moon but make the moons mass shadow larger so the dovin basals ( who are not smart) use more of their collective to get out of there as ordered by the ship lord ( tasavong lah) .
the second part it was kyp that first used it and a indicator was used to make the breach bigger because an indicator can`t open a breach alone but only widen it.
sorry for this rant i want to correct any bad views or misunderstanding about this sieries wich is confusing to those that don`t read everything
Originally posted by ^Graff:
Not the Vong interdictors. In two if the NJO books (the second stackpole one and the first edge of victory one) the interdictors actually create a gravity well.
In one, they ues it to force a Vong cruiser to shunt all its dovin basals into its drive, so that it will not be pulled into a moon of Ithor. By forcing it to direct its dovin basals into propulsion, they can't be used for shielding.
In the other, an interdictor is used to disrupt a system's lagrange points so that a NR fleet can jump into the system in an area that the Vong haven't picketed. It's like this: a jump node is surrounded by mjolonirs, and you have to get into the system. What do you do? Disrupt the gravitic balance of the system by sending an interdictor through the node so that the node moves to a different spot, away from the Mjolonirs, just long enough to get a fleet into the system. Of course, the sentries will kill the cruiser, but it is better to lose one cruiser than an entire fleet.
[This message has been edited by ^Graff (edited 12-10-2001).]
Ace Pace