[Kosh]

They didn't just screw it up, they twice screwed up a game in a manner that specifically defied their own splashily enounced Gamer's Bill of Rights.

And so people won't buy their stuff, which is really how it should be instead of with other publishers like EA who can get away with doing anything, including crappy games.

But EA has actually been the industry good guy for a few years now, cutting down on DRM and championing new IPs.

I'm sure that cutting down DRM had a lot more to do with the multiple class action lawsuits filed against them 2 years ago than an attempt to actually respect their customers.


They may have cleaned up their act recently, but they are going to have to be good for a long time. The reason why is because when they started off in the early 80's, their entire strategy was based on not raping gamers and respecting the designers, and they were known as the good guys. Eventually they betrayed that trust and turned into the Soviet Union of the gaming world. In the last 10 years they've had at least 4 major lawsuits because of their unethical behavior.


Oh, and as for the original topic, let's see how EA's experience with limited installs worked out:

n the September 2008 release of EA's game Spore it was revealed that the DRM scheme included a program called SecuROM  and a lifetime machine-activation limit of three (3) instances. A huge public outcry over this DRM scheme broke out over the Internet and swarmed Amazon.com with one-star ratings and critical reviews of the game in order to get EA to "pay attention to their consumers".[66]  This DRM scheme, which was intended to hinder the efforts of pirates to illegally use and distribute EA software, instead mainly affected paying customers, as the game itself was pirated well before release.[67] On September 13, 2008, it was announced that Spore was the most pirated game ever with over half a million illegal downloads within the first week of release.[68] In response to customer reaction, EA officially announced its release of upcoming Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3 would increase the installation limit to 5 rather than 3.[69] Many customers were still unsatisfied, claiming they were still renting the game at full price.

On September 22, 2008, a global class action law suit was filed against EA regarding the DRM in Spore, complaining about EA not disclosing the existence of SecuROM from the game manual, and addresses how SecuROM runs with the nature of a rootkit, including how it remains on the hard drive even after Spore is uninstalled.[70][71][72] On October 14, 2008, a similar class action lawsuit was filed against EA for the inclusion of DRM software in the free demo version of the Creature Creator.[73]

In other words it hurt people who purchased the game legally and rewarded piracy. So, for everyone who thinks there isn't a problem, enjoy "renting" your crippled game at $60+.

[General Battuta]

They didn't just screw it up, they twice screwed up a game in a manner that specifically defied their own splashily enounced Gamer's Bill of Rights.

And so people won't buy their stuff, which is really how it should be instead of with other publishers like EA who can get away with doing anything, including crappy games.

But EA has actually been the industry good guy for a few years now, cutting down on DRM and championing new IPs.

I'm sure that cutting down DRM had a lot more to do with the multiple class action lawsuits filed against them 2 years ago than an attempt to actually respect their customers.

No, it has to do with the fact that they got a new CEO.

[Colonol Dekker]

With second hand. You get what you pay for. . . .

[Scotty]

So, for everyone who thinks there isn't a problem, enjoy "renting" your crippled game at $60+.

It's only a problem for people who continually reformat their computer or don't have an attention span long enough to keep it installed in the first place.

Don't uninstall it and you've got no problems.

I'm still hearing "even though I don't want to play this, and even though no one is making me buy it, I'm still going to ***** about it."  Seriously, if it pisses you off so much, don't buy the game, which I suspect you've already avoided.

[Mongoose]

Yeah, seriously.  If they were springing this stuff on people without giving anyone a way to find out about it, you might have a case.  But as it stands, you can be an informed consumer and vote with your wallet, the same as anyone else.

[Kosh]

Actually mongoose EA did spring this on people, which is why they got sued for it.

I'm still hearing "even though I don't want to play this, and even though no one is making me buy it, I'm still going to ***** about it."  Seriously, if it pisses you off so much, don't buy the game, which I suspect you've already avoided.

I don't buy the game. I pirate because at this point pirated games work better than bought and paid for games. If I'm going to be treated like a criminal, I might as well actually be one. The reason it pisses me off is because DRM is killing PC gaming. If I find a good game that doesn't have DRM, I put it on a list of games to buy when I have some extra cash, like Mass Effect 2.

[General Battuta]

Actually mongoose EA did spring this on people, which is why they got sued for it.

I'm still hearing "even though I don't want to play this, and even though no one is making me buy it, I'm still going to ***** about it."  Seriously, if it pisses you off so much, don't buy the game, which I suspect you've already avoided.

I don't buy the game. I pirate because at this point pirated games work better than bought and paid for games. If I'm going to be treated like a criminal, I might as well actually be one. The reason it pisses me off is because DRM is killing PC gaming. If I find a good game that doesn't have DRM, I put it on a list of games to buy when I have some extra cash, like Mass Effect 2.

So this brings us full circle to my original question: why are you in this thread ranting against the very measures that will save us from DRM?

[Kosh]

Because it's just adding extra layers of BS. What will save us from DRM is good corporate management.  What THQ is trying to do isn't save us from DRM but to introduce another form of it.

[Klaustrophobia]

i'm more pissed off because much of the mainstream idiot market WILL buy **** games, publishers DO turn a hefty profit on crap, and it screws those of us who want quality over.

So, you're pissed off because some business, at great expense to themselves, might make a game that you don't like, that you don't have to buy, and that you don't have to play at all?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

no.  that's not what i said.  AT ALL.

[General Battuta]

Because it's just adding extra layers of BS. What will save us from DRM is good corporate management.  What THQ is trying to do isn't save us from DRM but to introduce another form of it.

Really? While it's more drastic than stuff like ME2's Cerberus Code, it's functionally similar. Why do you object to one and not the other?

[Polpolion]

Actually mongoose EA did spring this on people, which is why they got sued for it.

I'm still hearing "even though I don't want to play this, and even though no one is making me buy it, I'm still going to ***** about it."  Seriously, if it pisses you off so much, don't buy the game, which I suspect you've already avoided.

I don't buy the game. I pirate because at this point pirated games work better than bought and paid for games. If I'm going to be treated like a criminal, I might as well actually be one. The reason it pisses me off is because DRM is killing PC gaming. If I find a good game that doesn't have DRM, I put it on a list of games to buy when I have some extra cash, like Mass Effect 2.

Egh... I wouldn't go around here telling people that you pirate. Trashman actually got banned for a week because of that.

[Hades]

That was an awesome week.

[NGTM-1R]

It's only a problem for people who continually reformat their computer or don't have an attention span long enough to keep it installed in the first place.

Don't uninstall it and you've got no problems.

Apparently the concept of finite hard drive space is foreign to you? Particularly after we count other media besides games?

This is why Steam was such a godsend to me, trying to keep track of where these various idiots put their verification code in their packaging and then keeping them all was an impossible task.

[Scotty]

Apparently the concept of finite hard drive space is supposedly as foreign to me as going out and buying a $10 USB stick for your games (or other media) is to you.

[redsniper]

We should just go back to codes in the manual, like Tie Fighter did.

[Kosh]

Because it's just adding extra layers of BS. What will save us from DRM is good corporate management.  What THQ is trying to do isn't save us from DRM but to introduce another form of it.

Really? While it's more drastic than stuff like ME2's Cerberus Code, it's functionally similar. Why do you object to one and not the other?

Really? Didn't realize it was there. ME2 is off the list, thanks. Could have been a rather embarrassing mistake.

Egh... I wouldn't go around here telling people that you pirate. Trashman actually got banned for a week because of that

Normally I wouldn't, but I do it explicitly to avoid BS like Star Force, limited installs, rootkits, and other such nonsense. I'm doing my part to punish companies that try to screw with their customers. 

Apparently the concept of finite hard drive space is supposedly as foreign to me as going out and buying a $10 USB stick for your games (or other media) is to you.

So in other words we should pay EVEN MORE to support absurd measures that wouldn't even effect us if we pirated? Wow. Why do you want to reward companies that punish you for buying their product?

[General Battuta]

Because it's just adding extra layers of BS. What will save us from DRM is good corporate management.  What THQ is trying to do isn't save us from DRM but to introduce another form of it.

Really? While it's more drastic than stuff like ME2's Cerberus Code, it's functionally similar. Why do you object to one and not the other?

Really? Didn't realize it was there. ME2 is off the list, thanks. Could have been a rather embarrassing mistake.

Are you actually as dumb as you sound? You do know that the Cerberus Code is a one-time-use activation that provides access to free DLC? It doesn't lock out any main features of the game.

Egh... I wouldn't go around here telling people that you pirate. Trashman actually got banned for a week because of that

Normally I wouldn't, but I do it explicitly to avoid BS like Star Force, limited installs, rootkits, and other such nonsense. I'm doing my part to punish companies that try to screw with their customers. 

And ironically feeding the statistics they use to justify pushing their asinine DRM measures further. You need to be smart and support the good forms of copy protection - those that rely on giving things to people who buy the game, rather than taking them away.

[Scotty]

So in other words we should pay EVEN MORE to support absurd measures that wouldn't even effect us if we pirated? Wow. Why do you want to reward companies that punish you for buying their product?

Wat.

I've seen some word twisting before, but that has to be near the top for change in direction from what I actually said.

FINITE HARD DRIVE SPACE is completely unrelated to and independent of piracy, DRMs, install limits, and anything like that.  If FINITE HARD DRIVE SPACE is the issue you have with limited installs, go find a $10 USB stick and never worry about it again.  I was unaware that gaming companies made money off of USB STICK SALES.

And besides, if people would stop having retardedly huge entitlement issues and pirate games in the first place., we could avoid anti-piracy measures altogether.

[NGTM-1R]

Apparently the concept of finite hard drive space is supposedly as foreign to me as going out and buying a $10 USB stick for your games (or other media) is to you.

How's that an improvement? Then I have to keep track of tiny USB drives. That's actually considerably smaller and easier lost then, say, the packaging from Neverwinter Nights.

[Kosh]

If FINITE HARD DRIVE SPACE is the issue you have with limited installs, go find a $10 USB stick and never worry about it again.

$10 extra. Yep, no twisting of words, we'd have to pay more. It might not go to gaming publishers, but the fact remains we wouldn't buy it in the first place if the DRM didn't exist.

And besides, if people would stop having retardedly huge entitlement issues and pirate games in the first place., we could avoid anti-piracy measures altogether.

I've stated before that anti-piracy measures have been in the past few years has been a big factor in driving piracy in the first place, along with proof. All of which you seemed to ignore. I'm beginning to wonder if we have a gamer version of the Stockholm Syndrome going on here. Do you like DRM raping your system?