Author Topic: IL-2 Sturmovik  (Read 21161 times)

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Offline Thaeris

  • Can take his lumps
  • 211
  • Away in Limbo
Ah, speaking of the VVS P-40 campaign...

...I had access to Il-2 in the "air science lab" at Embry, which was a simulator room where they'd teach pilot students. I started that campaign as a LaGG pilot, got owned by Bf-109E's, and then after recovery was transferred to the P-40. Aww yeah... Hands down, the '40 is my favorite Allied fighter of the war, and I was doing incredibly well... until I had to leave.

:)
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 
That sounds cool. Are you an aeronautical student, Thaeris? You seem to be quite knowledgeable about aerodynamics/aircraft design.

I wonder if Jadehawk will chime in too; I think he works in the aviation industry, and he's made some skins for IL-2.

This may sound weird, but I also have a thing for the P-39. Granted, it has a tendency to enter a flat spin after stalling, but I like the visibility and the firepower it offers. Its nose-mounted cannon is somewhat slow-firing and doesn't have much ammo, but when it hits... :shaking:

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
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Ah, speaking of the VVS P-40 campaign...

...I had access to Il-2 in the "air science lab" at Embry, which was a simulator room where they'd teach pilot students. I started that campaign as a LaGG pilot, got owned by Bf-109E's, and then after recovery was transferred to the P-40. Aww yeah... Hands down, the '40 is my favorite Allied fighter of the war, and I was doing incredibly well... until I had to leave.

:)


The P-40... well, it tends to be somewhat underpowered in the game. The late P-40M and Soviet Field Mod version are decent enough, but contemporary axis fighters (both German and Japanese) still own them in an equal advantage starting position.

The P-40 does turn good and dive good, though, so if you fly it right and don't allow the enemy to gain energy advantage, then you can do very well with it.

I, however, have attuned my gunnery reflexes for snapshots with 20mm cannons, and using wing-mounted .50-cals is rather hard for me. They feel so frustrating because even if they hit, they need much more hits than in real life to produce good damage. It's widely accepted that the .50-cal Brownings are nerfed in IL-2 - both in accuracy and damage - compared to most other weapons.

As a result, I tend to avoid flying most western allied planes, such as P-51, P-47, P-40 and what have you. The P-51 flies pretty nicely, P-47 is a brick under 5000 metres compared to other planes but absolute monster at higher altitudes, and P-40 is somewhat fragile and slow.

P-39 on the other hand tends to be a somewhat overmodeled aircraft. Especially the earlier versions and specifically the P-39 D-2. The cannon makes it more dangerous than the other American fighters that stick to MG's only for armament, but what I mean by overmodeling is that it can actually outrun the Bf-109 F-4 and Bf-109 G-2 models up to fairly high altitude.

This makes really no sense when you consider the powerplants of the respective airplanes. The P-39 had an Allison V-1710 V12 engine with a single-stage low performance supercharger, rated at 1,475 hp (1,100 kW) at 3,000 rpm at sea level and, due to the lack of multi-stage supercharger, the performance dropped off sharply at altitude.

My contrast, the Bf-109 F-4 had a Daimler-Benz DB-601E rated at "up to 1,350 PS (993 kW) at sea-level with 2,700 rpm" which is indeed less than the Allison engine's low altitude performance, but also "up to 1,320 PS (970 kW) with 2.700 rpm at 4.8 km altitude" which is significantly higher than the power produced by the Allison engine at similar altitude.


Then again, the AI planes have so much difficulty matching the tactical performance, flying and gunnery skills of real human player that they are forced to cheat atrociously. What I usually do offline is set myself against 16 AI planes of variable make and skill, then give myself unlimited ammo and fuel, and fight them.

Trying to use energy tactics against the AI is futile, and almost unaffected by what planes you choose to give the AI. I have experimented with giving them damned I-16's and myself a FW-190 D-9, and they can bloody keep up with it due to their unnatural speed and climb rate. I can run away from them in straight line, but I can't really gain a meaningful energy advantage for performing well set up attack runs against them.

Another example would be using an YP-80 jet against '42-'43 Spitfire models. It's just hilariously frustrating how little it seems to matter what plane matchups you use, the AI planes just have such a huge advantage, and it's not just the fact that they never overheat or blackout... they are using a different flight model for same plane, and that's one of the primary reasons I usually just use them for gunnery practice and elect to fly online rather than dynamic or static campaigns.

Again, I hope the Cliffs of Dover doesn't do the same mistake with AI planes. It's super-annoying when you know your plane should have superior speed and superior climb rate but you don't, not enough to make it matter anyway. The only real way to defeat a horde of AI is to get yourself a plane with superior turning performance, such as the La-7, Yak-3, Ki-84 or Bf-109G-2; with these planes, it's actually fairly easy to manage the AI planes, even at high numbers.


The AI is also woefully incapable of taking terrain formations into account. So, if you are trailed by a large number of aircraft, you can fly low towards a near-vertical cliff face, pull up near it and pass the top closely, and confused by your complex maneuver, the AI planes usually smash into the cliff en masse; you can do the same thing with a mountain that allows you to fly around its peak. If you do it right and position the peak of the mountain between you and AI planes, it's fairly high odds that the AI, tracking you, will ignore the mountain and fly right into it.

I could maybe make a video showing this, it's fairly amusing to watch.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 
Since you mentioned the cheating AI in an earlier thread, I've begun to notice it as well but not to the same extent, you've obviously studied the quirks of this game deeply. Things like AI planes appearing to have their control surfaces fully deflected but somehow remaining very steady in flight. And times when they seem to cling to higher altitudes, leaving me to chase them around the sky for ages. On veteran AI level I've noticed them do this and it sometimes seems like they aren't interested in fighting, even if they have not taken any damage or used much ammo.

Didn't think they'd be susceptible to maneuver kills though. I remember pulling one off in Red Baron (managed to get him to hit the Eiffel Tower) and another one in MS Combat Flight Simulator (got an Fw-190 (I think) to collide with the Tower Bridge, but I think that one was more unintended).

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
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Well, I'll make a video then and upload it to youtube. Should be amusing.

 :)
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline ssmit132

  • 210
  • Also known as "Typhlomence"
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I've had the original IL-2 for quite a few years, now, but I only played it sporadically. The same with 1946, which I bought from eBay early last year. I have had fun with it, although I play with some of the more realistic options turned off. I've only really played single missions - never had a go at one of the campaigns, but still, I can tell it's certainly a really good simulator. :)

 

Offline Thaeris

  • Can take his lumps
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That sounds cool. Are you an aeronautical student, Thaeris? You seem to be quite knowledgeable about aerodynamics/aircraft design.

I'm indeed a former aerospace engineering student. Unfortunatey, a nasty semester closed that door for the time being, as well as a possible future career in the Air Force. Aviation has and always will be a passion of mine, however. I'm currently back in my home state studying civil engineering.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
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  • Bad command or file name
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Straight out of Independence Day :lol:

Edit: Great, now I've been watching hilarious IL-2 crash videos for the past half-hour. :p
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 01:23:24 am by Mongoose »

 
For crying out loud.... They really need to sort out that target fixation problem. :lol:

Also, good choice of music, but I reckon "Catch the Pigeon" would've been a good alternative. ;)

That sounds cool. Are you an aeronautical student, Thaeris? You seem to be quite knowledgeable about aerodynamics/aircraft design.

I'm indeed a former aerospace engineering student. Unfortunatey, a nasty semester closed that door for the time being, as well as a possible future career in the Air Force. Aviation has and always will be a passion of mine, however. I'm currently back in my home state studying civil engineering.

I see, actually I think I remember you mentioning that a while back. Good stuff, hope it goes well. :)

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

  • 212
  • Snoop Junkie
The installer program can be extremely, gnarly slow and there have been reports from people where it hasn't worked at all.

The problem seems to be (mostly) related on the autorun not working properly on Win7, so you can try starting the installer by directly starting a.exe, IL-2 Sturmovik 1946.msi, or one of the autorun.exe files in the 1031/1033/1036 directories.
A good piece of advice... 'when in doubt, choose "A"' Activating a.exe did the trick, though I have encountered one odd thing... there are fewer aircraft than I remember.  I was pretty sure that there was a tail-first rocket-powered interceptor from the Soviets, then another version with ramjets on the wingtips... I don't see it this time.  The install came in at v4.07, so I installed the 4.08 patch that I already had, then the 4.09, skins, 4.10 and 4.10.1 patches, but I still didn't see them.  Am I getting confused with something else or is there a step I missed?
The Trivial Psychic Strikes Again!

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
A good piece of advice... 'when in doubt, choose "A"' Activating a.exe did the trick, though I have encountered one odd thing... there are fewer aircraft than I remember.  I was pretty sure that there was a tail-first rocket-powered interceptor from the Soviets, then another version with ramjets on the wingtips... I don't see it this time.  The install came in at v4.07, so I installed the 4.08 patch that I already had, then the 4.09, skins, 4.10 and 4.10.1 patches, but I still didn't see them.  Am I getting confused with something else or is there a step I missed?

Good to hear the installer worked after all.

Doesn't look like you missed anything, but just to make sure, check if your game actually starts as 4.10.1 now (it should be visible in the lower left corner of splash screen when the game is loading). When you install the patches, they automatically point to C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\IL-2 Sturmovik 1946\ directory, and if you installed the game into custom location you need to remember to change the directory for every patch, since the patch installers are essentially just self-extracting archive files and don't have any clever heuristics for sniffing out where your game is actually installed. So, it's very easy to install patches into wrong directory.

The planes you mentioned should still be there. They are the Russian rocket plane BI-1 and the ramjet-enhanced variant BI-6, and you can set plane list to "Alphabetical" or "Standard" in plane selection screen of Quick Mission builder. That might change where those planes are located.


On the other news, HSFX 5.0 has just been released, compatible with 4.10.1 patch. I expect UltraPack to follow soon.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline IceFire

  • GTVI Section 3
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There's a fantastic new trailer out there for IL-2 Cliffs of Dover. Very impressive!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcm_5L6yZIY&feature=feedlik
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 

Offline Dilmah G

  • Failed juggling
  • 211
  • Do try it.
That's rather cool. I hope I didn't see Spits flying in formations of four, though. :P

 

Offline Thaeris

  • Can take his lumps
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  • Away in Limbo
Quite off-topic, but speaking of Il-2 related videos, I got a great kick out of this notice-of-sorts for would-be modders...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOrm5__8af0&feature=related

:P  Gotta' love the end.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline Dilmah G

  • Failed juggling
  • 211
  • Do try it.
That's one hell of a way to save fuel. :P

 
There's a fantastic new trailer out there for IL-2 Cliffs of Dover. Very impressive!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcm_5L6yZIY&feature=feedlik

Now would probably be the time for me to buy a new computer. I'd like to wait and see what others think of it first before buying a copy, though.

I wonder how powerful the Browning .303 machine guns will be. I was reading a magazine article about the contribution of the Italian airforce to the campaign over Britain, and one of the pilots gave an account of how his parachute managed to prevent one of the bullets from hitting him in the back (I think he was flying one of those biplane fighters). I think I heard somewhere that a certain RAF officer had calculated that eight .303 machine guns was the firepower required to down a 1930's-era bomber, hence why the two main RAF fighters had that many (seems like a lot of guns when I think about it).

 

Offline IceFire

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That's rather cool. I hope I didn't see Spits flying in formations of four, though. :P
It's been a while but the RAF adopted the finger four formation sometime during the battle. The vic formation was used at th beginning but I'm fairly certain by the end that was not the case. If memory serves :)
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 

Offline Dilmah G

  • Failed juggling
  • 211
  • Do try it.
Really? Hmm, I suppose that would make more sense though. I could've sworn I'd read somewhere that Bader introduced it after the Battle as the 'Finger Four'.

I wonder how powerful the Browning .303 machine guns will be. I was reading a magazine article about the contribution of the Italian airforce to the campaign over Britain, and one of the pilots gave an account of how his parachute managed to prevent one of the bullets from hitting him in the back (I think he was flying one of those biplane fighters). I think I heard somewhere that a certain RAF officer had calculated that eight .303 machine guns was the firepower required to down a 1930's-era bomber, hence why the two main RAF fighters had that many (seems like a lot of guns when I think about it).
Well they also said that the optimum gun convergence range to take down bombers was 400-650 yards (Dowding Spread, to those in the know), and look how far that got them. ;) Admittedly they did change to 250 yards after No. 1 Squadron's experimentation in France.

 
You're right, I hadn't thought about convergence distance.

Really? Hmm, I suppose that would make more sense though. I could've sworn I'd read somewhere that Bader introduced it after the Battle as the 'Finger Four'.

I've read somewhere that the 'Finger Four' was established at some time during the battle.

Having done some experimentation, I can definitely see the AI cheating in effect, especially with regards to upping the performance of their planes to match (and maybe exceed?) that of the player's. I've just tried several attempts at using a MiG-15 to take on four Fw-190 D-9's with the AI setting on Ace level. To summarize, using the MiG's superior climb rate didn't help for long, and before long they were tailing me at about 500m behind and at about 510km/h. The AI is a Jedi, it seems.