[SaltyWaffles]

Sure, I've seen random easter eggs on the interior surfaces of some ship models before--the GTCa Canberra comes to mind. But those were all more jokes and quirks, which is why I was rather surprised when I stumbled onto a LOT of writing on the interior surfaces of the Narayana model, and it turned out to be rather interesting.

I have no idea if this is just old news that was found a long time ago, or if it's still actually obscure, but I'd really love to see the text written out somewhere where it's actually legible.

Reading and understanding it was a total *****, and I just gave up when I found another section that required me to be less than a meter from the surface to see it at all (and it was illegible, too!).

I got the first two parts (on the giant, flat 'slab') pretty well. This is far from a direct transcription, but just conveys the gist:

' Rather than being highly similar to Shivan tactics, Steele's docrtines are in fact its antithesis. He specializes in mastering a set of specific tactics, exploiting an enemy's weaknesses through the control of information and denial of information about his movements and deployments to his enemies, etc. However, widespread adoption of his doctrines would surely doom any warfighting effort against a notional Third Incursion; Shivan behavior is not locally optimized, but globally optimized--globally optimized to a degree that the Alliance could not hope to match in the next thousand years.

Shivan constructs are known to perform far below their potential level; Shivan fighter craft weaponry could outperform the Kayser special issue weapon in nearly every aspect, but consistently do not. The captured Mara fighters used during the Second Incursion demonstrated even better performance in our use, suggesting that this trait extends beyond small-scale weaponry. It seems that the Shivans routinely deploy assets with an adequate performance level, but one that is always below their engineering potential.'

Anyone know what the deal is with this? Anyone want to try and read the other parts (maybe higher resolution textures or something would make it more legible in FRED)?

[The Dagger]

That's old I guess...

This is from the "What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven" thread

There's also that hidden text on nuRayana textures which speaks 'bout it IIRC.

I'll quote it:

There is no question that Shivan tactical behaviour is often poorly optimized. The local structure absorbs losses that could otherwise be deflected, applies force to surfaces instead of gaps, and deploys weapons and craft which the perform well below the parameters that their engineering is capable of. Witness the primary weapons on Shivan fighters, which could outstrip the Kayser special issue weapon in every aspect yet consistently do not; or the enhanced performance of the Mara fighters that SOC captured during the second incursion. We raise these points in light of successes of our colleague and respected friend, Admiral Chiwetel Steele in combat with the Federation in Sol. It is our contention that his tactics, often compared to that of the Shivans, are in fact their antithesis and that widespread adpotion of his doctrines could doom any warfighting effort against a notional third incursion.

Shivan behaviour is not locally optimized. We advance the notion that it is instead globally optimized: globally optimized for the task of not winning battles but of destroying entire species, empires far vaster than we, the Alliance, could achieve in the next thousand years. Admiral Steele's success relies on honing a specific set of tactics aimed directly at an enemy's weakness, exploiting superior information and denying the enemy knowledge of his own movements and plans. The Shivans, conversely, are adapted to fight and win a very different scenario: engaging a foe capable of simulating all possible outcomes, with perfect information on Shivan capabilities, and with the Shivans possessing no such advantage. Like a cancer or an immunity plague, the Shivans seek to diversify their strategies, to present as many different vectors of attacks as possible and allow the enemy, through their responses, to select those which they fear the most and those which will do the most harm.

To use a metaphor from an old story - Steele is Batman, with a single linear plan; but the Shivans are the Joker, or an entire Hive of Jokers, enacting madness in every direction - wasteful locally, but globally impossible to counter, for any adaptation to one strategy simply renders the defender vulnerable to the next...

They are godslayers, built as an infinitely broad and deep reactive organism, converting all losses into information and then to ultimate victory. They begin, intentionally, from nothing, free of all exploitable preconceptions; to attack them is to teach them.

How "BP canon" is this? No clue.


Though from the looks of this, the Shivans rely on having vastly superior production to be able to "afford" inefficient strategies to probe the weaknesses of an adversary. I'm intrigued at the concept what would happen if they ran into another race with a similarly large logistics base but had a single highly-optimized strategy how they would fare...

By the time they find it's 'weakness' through trial and error, would they have spent too much for it to matter?

Neither the UEF nor the GTVA have such a production base capable of matching the Shivans.
The Vishnans however...

[An4ximandros]

No one seems to have noticed that...

Spoiler:

in the "nebula", the containers spell out BOSCH if you look at them from the "top", using the ShivNode as a period after the H.)

This is a super spoiler by the way. 

[Luis Dias]

There is no question that Shivan tactical behaviour is often poorly optimized. The local structure absorbs losses that could otherwise be deflected, applies force to surfaces instead of gaps, and deploys weapons and craft which the perform well below the parameters that their engineering is capable of. Witness the primary weapons on Shivan fighters, which could outstrip the Kayser special issue weapon in every aspect yet consistently do not; or the enhanced performance of the Mara fighters that SOC captured during the second incursion. We raise these points in light of successes of our colleague and respected friend, Admiral Chiwetel Steele in combat with the Federation in Sol. It is our contention that his tactics, often compared to that of the Shivans, are in fact their antithesis and that widespread adpotion of his doctrines could doom any warfighting effort against a notional third incursion.

Shivan behaviour is not locally optimized. We advance the notion that it is instead globally optimized: globally optimized for the task of not winning battles but of destroying entire species, empires far vaster than we, the Alliance, could achieve in the next thousand years. Admiral Steele's success relies on honing a specific set of tactics aimed directly at an enemy's weakness, exploiting superior information and denying the enemy knowledge of his own movements and plans. The Shivans, conversely, are adapted to fight and win a very different scenario: engaging a foe capable of simulating all possible outcomes, with perfect information on Shivan capabilities, and with the Shivans possessing no such advantage. Like a cancer or an immunity plague, the Shivans seek to diversify their strategies, to present as many different vectors of attacks as possible and allow the enemy, through their responses, to select those which they fear the most and those which will do the most harm.

To use a metaphor from an old story - Steele is Batman, with a single linear plan; but the Shivans are the Joker, or an entire Hive of Jokers, enacting madness in every direction - wasteful locally, but globally impossible to counter, for any adaptation to one strategy simply renders the defender vulnerable to the next...

They are godslayers, built as an infinitely broad and deep reactive organism, converting all losses into information and then to ultimate victory. They begin, intentionally, from nothing, free of all exploitable preconceptions; to attack them is to teach them.

Battuta is godlike when he's inspired. No ****ing doubt.

[An4ximandros]

It seems the GTVA is forked hardcore in this, eh?

WAIT, what if the terrible thing the Jester predicted is the final Shivan Armageddon attack?

All the incursions have been nothing but a giant process of trial and error!

[Aesaar]

No one seems to have noticed that...

Spoiler:

in the "nebula", the containers spell out BOSCH if you look at them from the "top", using the ShivNode as a period after the H.)

This is a super spoiler by the way. 

Yes, I think Ken's identity is a bit of an open secret by now.

[Cyborg17]

Hey!  I didn't know that..... Man......................... I shouldn't have read the spoilers...... >:[

[Luis Dias]

That's still not canon, only a fanfic theory. It was a game with "A Ken", Aken Bosch, and so on. But wasn't it officially discarded?

[SaltyWaffles]

No one seems to have noticed that...

Spoiler:

in the "nebula", the containers spell out BOSCH if you look at them from the "top", using the ShivNode as a period after the H.)

This is a super spoiler by the way. 

Even 'knowing' that, it's largely useless info by itself. Without having enough understanding about where the plot in general is going to go, all things Vishnan, and the underlying Shivan motivations and intentions, that 'reveal' doesn't give any answers. It doesn't even give the right questions to ask, because we lack the frame through which to operate. Like a picture that is both zoomed too far in and completely out of focus, knowing that one incoherent blur is 'X' means little without enough understanding about the rest of the picture.

I do, however, hope that the entity you mentioned is likely present in the story--it makes certain canonical events that much more meaningful and interesting.

[Klaustrophobia]

No one seems to have noticed that...

Spoiler:

in the "nebula", the containers spell out BOSCH if you look at them from the "top", using the ShivNode as a period after the H.)

This is a super spoiler by the way. 

 

i didn't read the line below the box before reading the spoiler.  oh well.  i never would have discovered that otherwise anyway.

[Cyborg17]

I'm just upset because I feel like it would have been so much more meaningful when it is supposed to be revealed in the story.