Author Topic: Wing alignment  (Read 4214 times)

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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Anyone know an easy way to align a wing of cap ships?  I've got a Moloch and 2 Rakshasas in a wing with the Moloch as the lead ship.  The 2 Rakshasas do a look to get into position and it just looks stupid.  Trying the hit and miss approach just isn't cutting it.

Thought of another wing question so I'll just add it here.  Has anything been added to allow different wing patterns other than the standard 2D V formation? 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 11:04:57 am by FUBAR-BDHR »
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Offline karajorma

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I would not recommend putting capships in wings. Whatever it is you're trying to achieve probably has another solution that will give you a lot less grief.

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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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It's just 3 caps that head to a waypoint and leave.  I've done several wings of cap ships before.  Mostly the smaller ships like transports but have done Rakshasas, Cains and Liliths.  I think there used to be a formula for placement on the old VBB. 

The reason I wan't to use a wing is one of the objectives is to stop all 3 from leaving.  Taking the ships out of a wing would add a lot more events and sexps to the mission.  Not to mention things like directives and who knows what else.   

Starting to wonder if the problem is with the use of 2 different classes of caps in the wing (corvette and cruisers).  Don't think I have tried that anywhere else. 
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to me it sometimes happen when the waypoint is too close.
in this case a possible solution is:
put the waypoint far far away
order the wing to reach it
create an event
when distance wing-waypoint < x
   add goal: depart

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Offline Goober5000

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The reason I wan't to use a wing is one of the objectives is to stop all 3 from leaving.  Taking the ships out of a wing would add a lot more events and sexps to the mission.
Um... the following isn't sufficient?

Objective: Destroy All Three Ships
--is-destroyed-delay
----Ship 1
----Ship 2
----Ship 3

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Yes that would work for the directive but doesn't solve the event problem.  I would have to add jump points, check to see which ships make it to the jump points, check the status of the other ships (nav, engines, position) in the wing to see if they can jump also.  That is all taken care of automatically if they are part of a wing.
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Having ships in a wing also makes it easier to give orders to attacking bombers.  For example, if you've got a wing of 6 transports, and you want enemy fighters to attack them, you only have to give them the initial order (or ingame orders) to attack the wing, rather than having to give 5 separate orders to attack each of the transports in the group, then another follow-up to target the 6th when one is destroyed, if the transports are individual and not in a wing.
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Offline DarkShadow-

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The reason I wan't to use a wing is one of the objectives is to stop all 3 from leaving.  Taking the ships out of a wing would add a lot more events and sexps to the mission.  Not to mention things like directives and who knows what else.

Well, is it necessary that all ships depart at the same moment (which can be done by a has-time-elapsed departure cue anyway)? Cause if not I don't see the reason for making them a wing.
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Offline Black Wolf

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For the sake of, what, 9 extra sexps (probably less actually - I'm sure you could simplify this with variables - just have an go/no-go variable defined for each ship and flick it to no-go if anythng happens) you get to name your ships individually and take them out of a wing (something that, AFAIK, [V] never did with ships above transport size (Except maybe in Silent Threat - it has been ages since I ran through that, and really, if you're using Silent Threat as an example of good FREDding, well...).
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Offline Mobius

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There's a wishlist thread by me. Post there ;)

It may work with enemy ships: place the waypoint about 20 clicks away so the formation will be the same. I don't recommend to use it with friendly ships since "time to:99 mins" looks odd.
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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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Well I kept playing and got it close enough.  It's not perfect but at least no loops.  Problem wasn't the waypoint it's far enough away.  It's just the ships trying to get to the position they need to be in.  I just moved them back and to the side more.  Now they just speed up to get into the formation.  Apparently the cap ship AI is just not smart enough to slow down to get into position.
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Offline Goober5000

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Yes that would work for the directive but doesn't solve the event problem.  I would have to add jump points, check to see which ships make it to the jump points, check the status of the other ships (nav, engines, position) in the wing to see if they can jump also.  That is all taken care of automatically if they are part of a wing.
What are you babbling about?  If they're destroyed, they can't depart; and if they depart, they can't be destroyed.  I don't get what you're finding so hard about this.

 

Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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There is nothing hard about it.  It's just I want wing behavior out of the caps that's all.  I have wings of caps in several missions so I know it can be done.  It just seems the easy way to manually allign wings has been lost to time.   :(
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Offline NGTM-1R

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(something that, AFAIK, [V] never did with ships above transport size (Except maybe in Silent Threat - it has been ages since I ran through that, and really, if you're using Silent Threat as an example of good FREDding, well...).

There are several in FS1. The ones that attack the Hope come to mind.
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Offline Mobius

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Well they may work in case of pincer attacks.
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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For the wings-following-waypoints problem, there was a request some time ago for a sexp to restrict this.  Either a new goal, or perhaps a modification of the current waypoint ai goals, or perhaps a wing-parallel sexp, which would fit under the "special" category, the way cap-waypoint-speed fits.  I'd prefer the alteration of waypoints(-once) to something like

ai-waypoints-once
-<path name>
-priority (0 to 89)
-optional - force outer ships in wing to fly parallel to wing leader, rather than fly directly at the waypoint.  1 to enable, 0 to disable.  Off by default.
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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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I'd actually like to see it go a little farther.  Options like V, inverse V, 3D arrow, 2 by 2, box (horizontal or vertical) straight line (across or follow the leader), or my favorite leave them the way I put them!!!!
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Offline Mobius

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For the wings-following-waypoints problem, there was a request some time ago for a sexp to restrict this.  Either a new goal, or perhaps a modification of the current waypoint ai goals, or perhaps a wing-parallel sexp, which would fit under the "special" category, the way cap-waypoint-speed fits.  I'd prefer the alteration of waypoints(-once) to something like

ai-waypoints-once
-<path name>
-priority (0 to 89)
-optional - force outer ships in wing to fly parallel to wing leader, rather than fly directly at the waypoint.  1 to enable, 0 to disable.  Off by default.

I like the idea.


I'm wondering....how your missions are? Ships grouped in wings...
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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I've tried both options.  Having them as separate ships helps for following waypoints properly, results in fewer problems with the time-to-completion thing (with single ships, I use a 75m distance check for departure cues, not are-waypoints-done-delay), and allows all the ships to travel at top speed, but poses problems when you want a fighter wing to attack or defend the transport/freighter/cruiser/whatever wing.  You have to give multiple orders to guard or attack various ships in the formation, rather than simply telling them to attack or guard Omega wing.  When you wing them together, they stick to their own formation, limit speeds, and have the waypoints problem, but the later can be solved by the final-waypoint-1000m-after-departure-cue-fires method.  I use the later for the most part, though some changes such as those suggested would be welcome.
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Offline karajorma

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In addition if you stick capships in a wing you can't name them. And while that doesn't look so bad on transports or freighters, facing 3 cruisers called cancer 1,2 and 3 just looks bad to me.
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