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Taking on TBP's UI: The Main Hall
0rph3u5:
--- Quote from: OverDhill on March 17, 2020, 03:09:12 pm ---Gallery should be Gallery & Simulator or something.
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Ideally I would make a "Stand-Alone Missions"-button happen. Not sure yet if it is possible.
There is the option to programm "doors" into the mainhall that execute LUA scripts, but if that can be utilized to skip straight to the Mission Simulator I cannot tell yet. You have to give me a bit of time to figure that out.
--- Quote from: wesp5 on March 17, 2020, 03:43:05 pm ---I think "Techroom" would be completely fine and much better than gallery! There are a lot of cool single missions, especially MAG's missions simulating TV episodes and under gallery nobody would ever think to find them!
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I don't understand how sticking with "Tech Data" will solve the issue you are raising.
--- Quote ---the new blue design clashes with everything else so basically the whole UI would need to be redone.
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The current mainhall is also very distinct from the rest of the UI. Due to its more subdued colour palette it doesn't register as all that different, but it terms of design it still a departure.
I deliberatly chose brighter shades of blue than the ones used in show's credits (although I am aiming to approximate those in the end) because it is much easier to alter this way - e.g. to make red version of this mainhall for a Narn campaign or one with a stark black and white contrast for a campaign involving the Psi Corps. ("...would make it easier to build a custom Main Hall for any future mod")
Another reason for the bright shades is that like with all things subtraction is easier than addtion - with colours it is easier to make them more subdued from one interation to the next.
wesp5:
--- Quote from: 0rph3u5 on March 17, 2020, 09:00:03 pm ---I don't understand how sticking with "Tech Data" will solve the issue you are raising.
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Tech Data or Techroom would make new players curious what this is all about, so they will discover the single missions and campaign replayability. Gallery implies only screenshots or concept art as in many other games which both are not included in TBP.
--- Quote ---The current mainhall is also very distinct from the rest of the UI. Due to its more subdued colour palette it doesn't register as all that different, but it terms of design it still a departure.
--- End quote ---
Still it's much closer with it's gray to the green-gray brown-gray of the rest. Your bright blue is like a slap in the face in compatison ;)!
0rph3u5:
--- Quote from: wesp5 on March 18, 2020, 05:18:49 am ---
--- Quote from: 0rph3u5 on March 17, 2020, 09:00:03 pm ---I don't understand how sticking with "Tech Data" will solve the issue you are raising.
--- End quote ---
Tech Data or Techroom would make new players curious what this is all about, so they will discover the single missions and campaign replayability.
--- End quote ---
While I understand the goal of trying to tease the player's curiosity, I don't think it is an appropriate objective here. TBP, in its current form, is a platform for different stories rather than telling one itself.
If the Techroom would be delivery vehicle for paratext in a story, see Blue Planet for reference, luring the player there would be appropriate. As current route for TBP 3.7.0+ is to include as much content as possible - including community created content absent of a creator's prohibition - the Techroom cannot service that function.
--- Quote from: wesp5 on March 18, 2020, 05:18:49 am --- Gallery implies only screenshots or concept art as in many other games which both are not included in TBP.
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Uhm ... I don't know what you get when you click on "Tech Data", but I am landing on this screen:
Which can be described as a model gallery. Cutscenes and Credits are common features of a game's gallery too.
The screen splits off into in a Lexicon (Weapons and Intelligence - as here nothing represented by ingame assets) and the Mission Simulator.
I am very aware of the problem of "hiding" Mission Simulator this way - but it is more of collateral damage than a deliberate erasure. I mean a patch would be to just make campaign files for the stand-alone missions - you would just have to figure out a way to order the campaigns in the Campaign Room (game_settings.tbl does not provide one).
--- Quote from: wesp5 on March 18, 2020, 05:18:49 am ---
--- Quote ---The current mainhall is also very distinct from the rest of the UI. Due to its more subdued colour palette it doesn't register as all that different, but it terms of design it still a departure.
--- End quote ---
Still it's much closer with it's gray to the green-gray brown-gray of the rest. Your bright blue is like a slap in the face in compatison ;)!
--- End quote ---
I also don't see a reason why the rest of the interface has to be as drap as is - for Freespace 2 that is clear; the colour sceme reflects the atmosphere of the game and its thematic trajectory. TBP doesn't have that, and needn't be beholden to that.
It is esspecially jarring as Babylon 5 is not married to a "everything is used and bruised"-aethetic as say Star Wars or Firefly; Babylon 5's future may have its dark and grimey corners (Brown Sector), its deceptive beauty (Centauri Prime), its rugged edges (Narn), but also is very defined by clean functionality (Blue Sector and every common area of the station).
The only reasons I did not propose a whole overhaul is the work involved - while I like to keep the legacy backgrounds (even if some of them are a bit to busy IMO), the current interface is fixed onto them in the .pcx files. So absent the master files which would have the backgrounds and the interface elements as different layers, this is going to be a project that requires much more time and skill then I can muster.
wesp5:
--- Quote from: 0rph3u5 on March 18, 2020, 08:54:01 am ---I am very aware of the problem of "hiding" Mission Simulator this way - but it is more of collateral damage than a deliberate erasure.
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Sorry, but this is inacceptable! The whole TBO 3.X update was started by myself here because I think that MAGs single missions are better than 90% of all campaign missions exactly because they mirror the best show episodes. And now you come along and want to have them sink away in obscurity just for some standard nomenclature. NO WAY!
0rph3u5:
Listen, what is your agenda here? - Because I cannot tell anymore.
I am actually interested in what TBP can be going forward, even if there is no more grand next chapter being written, because let's face it we are talking about Babylon 5 fandom which is in late 20s; with JMS saying that he would not do anything short of "something big".
I have a championed the inclusion of post_processing.tbl, hud_gauges.tbl and the related scripts for exactly that reason - and I am really glad OverDHill did the work on those. The interface reform is fruit of the very same tree.
I may have a mixed relationship with my contributions to TBP - I have issued a prohibition on the re-release of The Black Hand - Episode 1 and the Awakening of the Beast-demo campaign for a reason - and likewise I am trying to fix the mistakes I made when I was put in charge of updating the Earth-Minbari War mini-campaign back for the release of 3.4.
But I am not here to erase someone else's contributions.
I also offered up a solution for the problem my interface reform would be causing: making campaign files for each of stand-alone mission is a trivial addition, but it then you would have to solve the issue of how to organize the campaign screen, which by default just goes alphabetically.
Finally as evidence of my intentions, here we are having this discussion. Out in the open, with the intention to find solutions for the problems that would exist if I were to move forward.
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