Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: manwiththemachinegun on June 02, 2016, 12:08:46 am
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Also, the new season of Macross has breakdance fighting VF-fighters and weaponized tactical Idol teams now.
I would in fact have boyish giggling if some form of Idol combat made an appearance in WoD. Even as flavor text.
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Also, the new season of Macross has breakdance fighting VF-fighters and weaponized tactical Idol teams now.
Macross 7 did it first.
Personally, I'd like to see WoD be its own thing, rather than copy other series for the sake of copying them.
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Well of course, but it's pretty clear which parts of anime WoD is mining so to speak. :P
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Also, the new season of Macross has breakdance fighting VF-fighters and weaponized tactical Idol teams now.
I would in fact have boyish giggling if some form of Idol combat made an appearance in WoD. Even as flavor text.
Please no...
Granted at episode 5 Macross Delta does pick up far enough to at least be enjoyable on occasion, but the first four episodes were just painful to trudge through. If I didn't love Macross Frontier so much, I'd have dropped Delta before finishing the first ep. Seriously, who's "genious" idea was it to turn Macross into a partial magical-girl series? :banghead:
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Shoji Kawamori, the guy who's been in charge of Macross from the very beginning.
It's not like this is new for the franchise. As stated previously, Macross 7. Also the weirder parts of Macross Zero. And frankly, the antics of Walkure aren't very far off from the stuff Sheryl and Ranka pulled in their concerts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4GSi8GZIMk) anyway.
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Also, the new season of Macross has breakdance fighting VF-fighters and weaponized tactical Idol teams now.
I would in fact have boyish giggling if some form of Idol combat made an appearance in WoD. Even as flavor text.
Back in 94 I screamed. In 2016 I head desked when 94 was smashed in my face.
If I'm not physically smacking my face, then it's isn't Macross.
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Shoji Kawamori, the guy who's been in charge of Macross from the very beginning.
It's not like this is new for the franchise. As stated previously, Macross 7. Also the weirder parts of Macross Zero. And frankly, the antics of Walkure aren't very far off from the stuff Sheryl and Ranka pulled in their concerts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4GSi8GZIMk) anyway.
Really? I didn't see anyone from Macross 7 or Frontier literally fly around and controll shield-bits with their voices to block off weapon's fire.
Screw jetpacks! Rockets integrated into mini-skirts are the norm now! (nope, not joking... they have that).
It's one thing to have holographic overlays simulating different clothing in a concert with holo-emitters all over the hall, but quite another to have that in the middle of battle and the above-mentioned telekinetic-like bull****. Thankfully they pretty much stopped using those platforms for the last couple of episodes.
Starting from Ep 5 Delta is quite enjoyable at least (still a far-shot from Frontier though), but the first 4 episodes were just god-aweful. If I didn't love Frontier so much, I'd never have manged to trudge though the first four Delta episodes... at my second attempt.
Oh I guess I forgot to mention one thing: I love Macross Frontier the series. The movies in my opinion are terrible and just take a huge dump on the series. The ending... is beyond sucking and the concerts in the movies are more like drug induced hallucinations than anything remotely possible through just holographic images. :nono: And the new songs that the movies added are far inferior to the awesome soundtrack of the series itself. I so love Northern Cross, Lion, Diamond Creavasse, Eien, What 'bout my Star (the Fromo version anyway), Transformation and Triangler.
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Well, if that's your opinion, that's your opinion.
All I'm saying is that this stuff hasn't been pulled out of nowhere: it's a progression of themes and technology we've seen previously in the franchise. I was a bit mad at Delta too at first, then I took a harder look at what the franchise has done in the past, and all of it makes in-universe sense. With that in mind, I've decided to roll with it and enjoy it.
Anyway, this is supposed to be a Wings of Dawn discussion thread, not a Macross Delta critique. Apparently this is a Macross Delta thread now. Carry on.
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I... just like jets! Especially jets that turn into robots.
Way better than robots that turn into jets.
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I... just like jets! Especially jets that turn into robots.
Way better than robots that turn into jets.
Cirvans better have ships that turn into robots, turn into jets, and turn into kitchen sinks.
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... and turn into kitchen sinks.
Citation please :p
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Anyway, this is supposed to be a Wings of Dawn discussion thread, not a Macross Delta critique.
You could make a Macross Delta thread if there isnt one.
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You could make a Macross Delta thread if there isnt one.
I'll make one out of this last page.
I like Macross and all that, but this hasn't been really relevant to WoD guys. So feel free to continue this in general discussion.
(And seeing new posts and only to see they aren't at all about WoD is demotivating)
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MESSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!
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Well, if that's your opinion, that's your opinion.
All I'm saying is that this stuff hasn't been pulled out of nowhere: it's a progression of themes and technology we've seen previously in the franchise.
Bits are from an entirely different franchise, in case you've forgotten.
Like, I hate to be That Asshole, but Macross, the first Macross, came at its genre with a subversive edge and reality ensues. It made its name because it was The Anti-Gundam, because it zigged where Gundam would have zagged, because it dealt with the consequences where Gundam brushed them off, because it was written to be sympathetic where Gundam was dogmatic. The reason we have a Macross franchise is because it did these things.
Macross Plus remembered that.
The rest of the franchise has been moving away from it at ever-increasing speed. Delta is just the furthest and most red-shifted example of this phenomenon, the Macross that wants most obviously to be one of the less-serious Gundam series. Macross is in no way a continuation of themes from, well, Macross now.
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Okay, you have me on themes. I believe I used that word incorrectly in my previous post. And I will admit that the shift in tone in Macross towards something less serious is something I don't approve of necessarily.
I just don't see a reason to hate on it for it is all. I still enjoy the series, even if a little less than I would have otherwise. I don't see it as trying to be a "less serious Gundam" as you put it, though. I see it as being modern Macross.
Bits are from an entirely different franchise, in case you've forgotten.
I actually wasn't thinking of Gundam at all. Rather, I don't have a problem believing the tech level in Macross has increased to the point that they can build bit-like weapons. They have long had AI-assisted fighter control and drone weapons (the Ghost series of unmanned fighters), so building a drone with pin-point barriers and hologram projectors slaved to the Walkure's... I guess you'd call them a stage crew for lack of a better term, and controlled via hand motions doesn't seem like a huge stretch to me. Further, ever since Song Energy was introduced to the franchise we've known it can provide power, so having them being powered by the Walkure (who were all chosen specifically for their Song Energy generation potential) again doesn't seem like a stretch to me.
To be clear, I don't think the Walkure themselves are responsible for coordinating the light show and holograms projected at their performances/battles, any more than a modern performer directly controls the stage lighting and other special effects at a concert. I think a support crew back on their mothership is doing that. The Walkure can, however, pre-empt control over the "bits" when it's necessary to use them as shields or platforms. That's my take on it from what I've seen thus far.
...and the concerts in the movies are more like drug induced hallucinations than anything remotely possible through just holographic images. :nono:
And Sharon Apple's concerts from Macross Plus weren't?
MESSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!
Meh. Dude wasn't all that likeable anyway.
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No he wasn't, but in the last few episodes he was starting to soften up a little. Still, a plot device til the end.
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Yea...I don't get the show anymore. Macross, the original, was a space opera that dealt realistically with the consequences of war and took a look at what might happen when bio-weapons grew into their own species.
Then we had Macross: DYRL, really good animation, similar storyline...
Then M2 at least tried to continue some sort of realistic thing?
M7 got really weird.
M+ was awesome! Realistic, a human story. An exploration of three (four?) people, haunted by their pasts and forced to confront them again.
M0 was...well, it tried. It was neat for like maybe 35-50% of the time, the rest of it was preachy and annoying.
Then Macross Frontier took M7 and got weirder.
Now this?
It just seems like with every iteration they're doubling down on the "music as a weapon", forgetting the whole "culture shock" aspect of it (which would be interesting to explore today with how we deal with other radically different cultures) and is becoming more and more like a cartoon that's meant to sell toys and pander to young boys.
Which, I mean...it probably always has been, but at least at the beginning it felt like there was depth. What is it now but a technicolor light show with cool fighter jets?
EDIT: Also there's this: http://www.animemaru.com/harmony-gold-to-adapt-macross-delta-as-robotech-spin-off/
Robotech: Songstress Squad. Also, apparently they aquired the M0 and Frontier rights, if this article is to be believed.
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Are you serious? Those slimy mother****ers...really?
GAH
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EDIT: Also there's this: http://www.animemaru.com/harmony-gold-to-adapt-macross-delta-as-robotech-spin-off/
Robotech: Songstress Squad. Also, apparently they aquired the M0 and Frontier rights, if this article is to be believed.
That's fake. Anime Maru is the Onion of anime news, ie, they're satire.
The only news I've heard about Delta getting any kind of overseas availability is that the Japanese Blu-rays have English subs. So, importation is possible, though then you have to deal with Japan's disc prices.
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Why do you guys think of the 3d animation in frontier and now delta?
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I haven't had problems with it. They've been refining it since it appeared in Zero.
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It still feels, I dunno, a little heavy on the vaseline?
It could just be me, I think the Macross series has been feeding speed to all of their pilots. I just end up wondering "how the hell would we ever emulate this in a cockpit sim".
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Why do you guys think of the 3d animation in frontier and now delta?
I was actually pretty fond of it in Zero (first time a VF transformed and it didn't magically add or subtract mass!), and Frontier wasn't bad.
Delta though it just feels off, maybe because it doesn't feel like it's really gotten better.
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Yea...I don't get the show anymore. Macross, the original, was a space opera that dealt realistically with the consequences of war and took a look at what might happen when bio-weapons grew into their own species.
Then we had Macross: DYRL, really good animation, similar storyline...
Then M2 at least tried to continue some sort of realistic thing?
M7 got really weird.
M+ was awesome! Realistic, a human story. An exploration of three (four?) people, haunted by their pasts and forced to confront them again.
M0 was...well, it tried. It was neat for like maybe 35-50% of the time, the rest of it was preachy and annoying.
Then Macross Frontier took M7 and got weirder.
Now this?
It just seems like with every iteration they're doubling down on the "music as a weapon", forgetting the whole "culture shock" aspect of it (which would be interesting to explore today with how we deal with other radically different cultures) and is becoming more and more like a cartoon that's meant to sell toys and pander to young boys.
Which, I mean...it probably always has been, but at least at the beginning it felt like there was depth. What is it now but a technicolor light show with cool fighter jets?
EDIT: Also there's this: http://www.animemaru.com/harmony-gold-to-adapt-macross-delta-as-robotech-spin-off/
Robotech: Songstress Squad. Also, apparently they aquired the M0 and Frontier rights, if this article is to be believed.
Aside from you getting deliciously fooled by animemaru (it's a parody site yo), I feel roughly the same way about the macross franchise as you do.
Though I'd probably give zero more credit for its nice combat and I felt frontier was pretty aright overal. I liked the second movie of it the most.
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Everybody knows the only thing Harmony Gold does with its IP rights is sue Battletech from time to time. :P
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Because I heard that allot of Macross Zero references have been popping up in Delta I went back and actually watched it before I saw Delta.
The Anti-Spacy VF is amazing and unless you read some of the side stuff I don't know if you would even realize the Aerial Knights use VF's that are descendants of that design. I love the design aesthetic of the Sv- series.
I think the majority of Zeros fights were on par all allot more fun and energetic (if you don't mind the vaseline everywhere) then most fights from other series. But don't really have the emotional investment of the other series making them less memorable.
Back to the topic of this thread:
I wish Macross was untouched by that 'PERVERT DETECTED. EXECUTE UNFUNNY VIOLENCE SUBROUTINE' ****. Really makes me dislike Mirage allot more. Don't get me wrong, shes probably my favorite character so far.
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The SV-51s in Zero were supposed to be Sukhoi built and it showed.
This thing is a Saab Draken or I will eat my hat:
(http://www.collectiondx.com/files/dxchodraken1.jpg)
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That sure is a Draken, yes.
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The SV-51s in Zero were supposed to be Sukhoi built and it showed.
Sv = Sukhoi Variable Fighter.
Also that is indeed a Draken. Its the Sv-262Hs Draken III. It's possible Saab was bought out by Sukhoi in the Macross Universe. In Japan they released small books going indepth into the VF's, Destroids and other vehicles in the show. So until someone translates the Draken pne, who knows.
If the Sv was indeed a catch all designation for hostile VF's like the AMX designation for Axis Mobile Suits from MSGZZ then doesn't it not make any sense due to other hostile forces using VF's against them with other designations? Such as the enemy VF's from M7 when they hadn't been seen by anyone before.
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The SV-51s in Zero were supposed to be Sukhoi built and it showed.
This thing is a Saab Draken or I will eat my hat:
(http://www.collectiondx.com/files/dxchodraken1.jpg)
Welp, don't Saab in your beer about it.
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What if, in this case SV = Saab Variable Fighter.
Both start with S after all.
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It could be. Although apparently Sukhoi has been confirmed to not exist by the events of the original Macross but its descendant companies still exist.
The Sv-51 from Zero is also apparently still in service with various anti-UN groups by Frontier as well as by the UN Spacy itself with new versions having been long updated with Reaction Engines to allow it to be used in space.
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The Sv-51 from Zero is also apparently still in service with various anti-UN groups by Frontier as well as by the UN Spacy itself with new versions having been long updated with Reaction Engines to allow it to be used in space.
...considering the number of airframe iterations the VF series has been through by that point, anything contemporary to the VF-0 must be like shooting skeet regardless of upgrades.
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:wtf: Wait Wut...
Earth was glassed in Super Dimension Fortress Macross, the survivors on SDF-1 basically restarted civilization as seen in the last nine episodes. New aerospace industries would have been founded by whatever personnel from Stonewell/Bellcom/Shinnakasu were on site when Macross initially fold spaced to the edge of the solar system. That there would even be holdouts from the original U.N. Wars that survived would be a stretch let alone them building obsolete SV-51 air frames that would still be in service in 2067.
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New aerospace industries would have been founded by whatever personnel from Stonewell/Bellcom/Shinnakasu were on site when Macross initially fold spaced to the edge of the solar system.
Indeed. The remnants of Stonewell, Bellcom, and Shinnakasu were merged into a new manufacturer called Shinsei Industries. The other major competitor for the New UN civilization is General Galaxy, which is actually a Zentraedi start-up.
Anyway, as for the original Sv-51, it was apparently built in a joint effort between Sukhoi, Israel Aircraft Industries, and Dornier (it isn't clear whether these companies were part of the Anti-UN Coalition or if the design was stolen from them by said coalition). According to expanded universe materials, the Sv line was not canned completely but was reabsorbed by Shinsei Industries following the Zentraedi War, and they've continued to tinker with the design even if it's never become their main product (they used a few such jets in the filming of the in-universe Macross Zero movie in Frontier, for instance). The Draken III's in use by Windermere are Sv-262's, which I'm guessing they stole during their independence war.
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New aerospace industries would have been founded by whatever personnel from Stonewell/Bellcom/Shinnakasu were on site when Macross initially fold spaced to the edge of the solar system.
The Draken III's in use by Windermere are Sv-262's.
Haven't we already established they are Sv-262's?
Apparently hidden bunkers full of Sv-51's were discovered after the Earth was glassed too.
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So, new episode.
Windermere's got a new toy, and the king's taking frontline command. Al-Shahal is about to fall, leaving Ragna as the only obstacle to Windermere's domination of the cluster.
NUNS and Chaos are seriously going to have to step up their game.
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Surprised there's only 8 billion people in the entire sector. Seems real small tbh, but I guess the colonial fleets weren't too stuffed to the gills in order to maintain a first world quality of life.
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I just realised that the Macross Elysion in Macross Delta is a Macross Quarter class ship. But they've added two new ARMD class ships onto it. Which you can see them travel to other planets on and had the Delta platoon on it during the attack on Ragna.
Why make it look so big though? Maybe the developers mistake? Although it does feel kinda refreshing have a not ginormous ship as the good guys flagship in the Macross series.
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Elysion is definitely not a Quarter-class. It looks to be one of the original Macross-classes produced near the beginning of the New UN's expansion, rather than a New Macross-class like what was seen in 7 and Frontier.
Where did you hear it was a Quarter?
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Per recent revelations in Great Mechanica G 2016 Summer, it's been confirmed that the Macross Elysion is not a Macross Quarter-class vessel.
She seems to be a similar design, but she's roughly twice the size (828m in Storm Attacker mode).
The emigrant ship on Ragna seems to be one of the very earliest New Macross-class ships. It doesn't have a shell, so it's probably Macross-1 or Macross-2.
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Macross Delta Vol.2 BD liner notes have specs for the Sv-262 Draken III! In M3 form:
Equipment Type: Variable Fighter
Government: Windermere Kingdom
Manufacturer: General Galaxy Corporation SV Works
Accommodation: Pilot only
Dimensions:
Length: 17.54m (Sv-262Hs)
Wingspan: 13.00m (Sv-262Hs)
Height: 5.74m (Fighter), 15.78m (Battroid)
Mass: 9,810kg
ISC Max G-Load: 30.8G
Power Plant: Two P&W/RR/LAI FF-2999/FC2 Stage IIG thermonuclear reaction turbine engine
Propulsion: 2x 1,955kN (Hs type can increase output nearly 30% using reheat system)
Thrust-to-weight ratio: 40.642 (unboosted)
Performance: Mach 5.8+ at 10,000m (capable of independent flight to satellite orbit)
Design Features: 3-mode variable transformation, ISC/T021G inertia store converter, SWGA energy conversion armor, pinpoint barrier system, active stealth system, chaff/flare/smoke discharger, bulletproof shield.
Armament:
2x Ramington LM-27C 27mm railgun pod (right forearm)
1x General Galaxy GBP-35A beam gun pod
4x Micro-Missile Pod (detachable)
2x Lilldraken (armament options available)
2x Laser machine gun (Hs type only)
Armament: (Lilldraken)
1x 30mm beam cannon
4x Micro-Missile Launcher
Armament: (Lilldraken, Alternate)
1x Jamming System
In this day in age, Sv apparently doesn't stand for Sukhoi Variable anymore... it's "Slayer Valkyrie".