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Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Grizzly on April 18, 2020, 09:50:54 am

Title: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Grizzly on April 18, 2020, 09:50:54 am
Hey HLP, DO YOU LIKE GUNS?

Do you like games that explore the lovely combination of doomsday cults, suicide, depression and the detailed mechanics of firearm usage?

Would you like to play a game that takes a Murphy's Law approach to firearms?

Well you should probably try Receiver 2, a game that seems to... take place in a gun nut's nightmares?


I've been playing it and getting the "glock leg" quite a lot.

If you're currently already dealing with enough suicidal thoughts you may wish to turn "Threat Echos" off.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Nightmare on April 18, 2020, 06:03:47 pm
Well you should probably try Receiver 2, a game that seems to... take place in a gun nut's nightmares?


Wait i don't have RPGs and tanks? Bad :/
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Scourge of Ages on April 18, 2020, 08:29:53 pm
I can confirm it is good.

The first time I shot myself with the Colt because I forgot to put the hammer down was really a thing.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: theperfectdrugsk on April 19, 2020, 06:37:55 am
Add it to the list of games to try when I can afford a VR rig...

in like 10 yrs  :blah:
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Grizzly on April 19, 2020, 07:03:57 am
Add it to the list of games to try when I can afford a VR rig...

It's not a VR game!
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: theperfectdrugsk on April 19, 2020, 07:33:03 am
Color me intrigued...it looked very much like VR in that trailer, so I just assumed it was. Hot damn!
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Grizzly on April 19, 2020, 10:25:01 am
I do wonder why people keep thinking that.

Mabye becuase many VR games about guns have all replicated receiver 1?
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: theperfectdrugsk on April 19, 2020, 10:55:22 am
Possibly? I'm not familiar with Receiver 1, but the aesthetic of showing the entire firearm on the screen rather than just the front/top two-thirds is pretty standard for VR from what I've seen.

Having read up on the game a little bit, I'm not sure how much I'd enjoy it...I think the fiddly "you must press X to holster your glock safely" because GLOCKS ARE APPARENTLY THE MOST DANGEROUS FIREARM IN EXISTENCE would quickly get on my nerves. I get the idea is to simulate the need to keep your head, be careful about doing things with firearms, but...when you drill with a firearm IRL the "finger off the trigger" muscle memory develops very quickly and much more solidly than pressing a key on a keyboard ever would.

Definitely a 'me' problem rather than a problem with the game though, cause I also disliked playing Rock Band for similar reasons hahaha. Almost like the "uncanny valley" but for games simulating IRL things.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Su-tehp on April 19, 2020, 11:14:08 am
Possibly? I'm not familiar with Receiver 1, but the aesthetic of showing the entire firearm on the screen rather than just the front/top two-thirds is pretty standard for VR from what I've seen.

Yeah, showing the entire firearm in the middle of the screen (without hands) gave me the impression that this was a VR game as well.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Grizzly on April 19, 2020, 11:28:37 am
Having read up on the game a little bit, I'm not sure how much I'd enjoy it...I think the fiddly "you must press X to holster your glock safely" because GLOCKS ARE APPARENTLY THE MOST DANGEROUS FIREARM IN EXISTENCE would quickly get on my nerves. I get the idea is to simulate the need to keep your head, be careful about doing things with firearms, but...when you drill with a firearm IRL the "finger off the trigger" muscle memory develops very quickly and much more solidly than pressing a key on a keyboard ever would.

Yeah I can see how that might be annoying! I like it because it emphasizes, well, how incredibly dangerous firearms are (the game seems rather aware of the fact that most gunshot wounds are self-inflicted), and it's def. murphy's law. It's not exactly "press x to holster safely", it's "hold x". So when you do a quick "OH ****" press things might happen. The game punishes you for panicking. If you have gun drill training, you'd probably be panicking less then I am!

Personally I just follow the austrian police's doctrine of, err, carrying around the firearm without a bullet in the chamber, but it's hard to keep focusing on that when you've got things trying to kill you but also reasons to keep holstering your firearm (whilst in, well, a gunfight you're probably not going to be holstering and unholstering your gun constantly, you'll have plenty of magazines that you don't need to fill up constantly, etc.).
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Scourge of Ages on April 19, 2020, 11:50:44 am
right up until the point where you need to holster your pistol to hack a turret that's swiveling toward you and you have JUST enough time to hack it but you forget that you'd cocked the hammer and shoot yourself...

Or you're tooling around with your Glock safely holstered without a round in the chamber, being real careful when you go around every corner, and then you hear a beep from above you IT'S A DRONE!
You whip out your gun and pull the trigger while you dodge backward. *click* AH CHAMBER A ROUND! *bang* miss *bang* miss *bang* hit, but it wasn't enough *click* click? I should have enough ammo, maybe it jammed *zzzzap* and I'm dead.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Grizzly on April 19, 2020, 12:15:46 pm
I love how the glock 17 has a full auto fire modifaction tho.

Or hwo the game sometimes just puts fully loaded guns in your holster, oops.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: theperfectdrugsk on April 19, 2020, 12:20:41 pm
right up until the point where you need to holster your pistol to hack a turret that's swiveling toward you and you have JUST enough time to hack it but you forget that you'd cocked the hammer and shoot yourself...

Or you're tooling around with your Glock safely holstered without a round in the chamber, being real careful when you go around every corner, and then you hear a beep from above you IT'S A DRONE!
You whip out your gun and pull the trigger while you dodge backward. *click* AH CHAMBER A ROUND! *bang* miss *bang* miss *bang* hit, but it wasn't enough *click* click? I should have enough ammo, maybe it jammed *zzzzap* and I'm dead.

That's another thing I wonder about...how high is the jam chance? Most modern handguns don't jam very often at all. Even the cheapo brands have gotten quite good (well...except mayb Hi-Point, but we don't talk about them). Unless it's somehow supposed to be simulating limp-wristing by having you hold a separate button while firing?
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Grizzly on April 19, 2020, 12:27:36 pm
The jams are often enough. There is some limp wrist simulation, especially when firing shots in rapid succession. I used to get them a lot more then now. I like them being there, becuase the mechanics of clearing jams are interesting to me. I mostly get failed to feed things.

The game is supposed to be taking place in some sort of nightmare version of reality where bad things happen far more often then normally, so if that isn't your thing this might not be the game for you. I think it's very interesting becuase it deals with lots of gun related stuff that other games just outright ignore, but I can't really say how it is for people who are already very well versed in firearms.

The hi-point is in the game and it does have a jam (out-of-battery) that is unique to it.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Scourge of Ages on April 19, 2020, 12:31:44 pm
That's another thing I wonder about...how high is the jam chance? Most modern handguns don't jam very often at all. Even the cheapo brands have gotten quite good (well...except mayb Hi-Point, but we don't talk about them). Unless it's somehow supposed to be simulating limp-wristing by having you hold a separate button while firing?

It's much higher than in the real world, explained in-game as meddling by [REDACTED]. Same with the likelyhood of shooting yourself when holstering your weapon: instead of "maybe sometimes if you're super sloppy" it's "every single time if you leave it cocked/loaded and aren't careful".

Fortunately, pulling the trigger is always just a mouse click (or hold for .25 seconds if a revolver). Assuming you have a round ready to go and the safety off (and cocked if M1911).

pre-EDIT: ninja'd
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Grizzly on April 19, 2020, 12:32:31 pm
Quote
(or hold for .25 seconds if a revolver)

Cock the hammer before you fire a revolver (f), it'll be shorter and you'll be more accurate.

Also, if you hold it you'll be able to look at what bullet is in the chamber. If it already has a dent in it, you've gone through your full rotation already.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Grizzly on April 19, 2020, 12:37:06 pm
Another important thing to note is that the firearm you get at the start of the game is entirely random wrt whether or not it has a bullet in the chamber and indeed all other aspects. It does emphasize that whole "check very carefully what you actually have in your hands" thing.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Scourge of Ages on April 19, 2020, 12:38:11 pm
Cock the hammer before you fire a revolver (f), it'll be shorter and you'll be more accurate.

The first time I shot myself with the Colt because I forgot to put the hammer down was really a thing.

 :lol:
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: theperfectdrugsk on April 19, 2020, 12:45:21 pm
The game is supposed to be taking place in some sort of nightmare version of reality where bad things happen far more often then normally, so if that isn't your thing this might not be the game for you.
It's much higher than in the real world, explained in-game as meddling by [REDACTED]. Same with the likelyhood of shooting yourself when holstering your weapon: instead of "maybe sometimes if you're super sloppy" it's "every single time if you leave it cocked/loaded and aren't careful".

Ohhhhhhh. I don't think I realized that. Hahahah I was thinking "wtf are they doing trying to base the entire game around making firearms 'realistic' and then having them jam all the time and go off in your pants constantly." Makes sense now :P
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Grizzly on April 19, 2020, 01:05:36 pm
:lol:

Damned if you do, damned if you don't eh :P
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Mito [PL] on April 19, 2020, 03:14:58 pm
I like it because it emphasizes, well, how incredibly dangerous firearms are [...]

Eh, from what I've seen and heard (mostly from you and other HLPers), this is what the entire game is about :P. But in the case of the Glock, it's more of a reminder of how unfortunately disconnected is simulating things in games to actual real experiences. That reminds me of how I tried to play Forza Horizon 4 at a friend's place with a proper racing setup (wheel + shifter + paddles), and how unbelieveably offputting was the lack of G-forces...
That said, still. When you operate - holster, unholster, wave around - your firearm, you absolutely always keep the finger off the trigger, period. On every half decent shooting range you get that hammered into your head immediately, and it's the first thing that should enter your muscle memory. This is the right way to hold and carry a weapon. In reality, you actually have to put in some effort to holster the weapon not safely and shoot yourself, contrary to the game. (That said, not having a chambered round or using safeties if the gun has any is a way to protect yourself from your own mistake)

I like the concept of the game though. Seeing in how many different ways can something wound or kill you is one of the best ways of teaching people how and why to be really careful with it and how to use it properly. A thing that the vast majority of shooty games just entirely disregards or skims over. That'll really make for some more people educated on weapon safety out in the world, and also they'll be enjoying educating themselves like that. Which is good.
Besides I work with electricity and this rule just gives me a reminder every once a while, so I think this doesn't only apply to weapons and that I at least partially know what I'm talking about :P.

I wonder if such mechanics ever make it into any other shooty survival games. For example, multiple mods for Stalker series games have mechanics of taking care of your weapons (mostly weapon repair/cleaning but nothing very in depth), but not really anything on properly using them. Something like this would be neat to see.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: theperfectdrugsk on April 19, 2020, 04:08:38 pm
Maybe I'm just a little cynical about the transfer of information/habits from video games to real life, but even with the added emphasis on "firearms are dangerous," it's still a game. A game with a conceit that makes you pause, sure, but still a game. I have my doubts whether it could possibly translate to folks actually being educated about weapon safety IRL, especially because of the massive disconnect between doing something on a keyboard and actually using a firearm safely. It might work better as a VR game, because at least then you have similar muscle memory, but I dunno. IMO, you want someone to learn to respect firearms, take them to a range and put some holes through a target. Even better, take them somewhere safe and put some holes in something more substantial than a soda can or a paper target.

That said, I do think there's room for shooters to include that level of 'realism' (depending on the game of course). I mean, I'm still pretty happy if a game disables, or at least gives me the option to disable, automatic reloading. I know at least one of the many Stalker mods also had a feature that required hitting reload again to clear a jam, which was a nice touch. The Day-Z standalone and several mods for Arma 3 have mechanics that require manually reloading magazines, and manually loading said magazines in the gun, which is another oft-overlooked aspect of firearms, but afaik none of them include having to rack the slide or disable the safety (and certainly nothing about accidentally shooting yourself).

Here I sit, posting my opinions on the internet, about a game I've never played. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Phantom Hoover on April 19, 2020, 05:34:42 pm
So to be clear, the lore (of which there is a LOT, this is gun simulator first and Listening To Cultist Tapes Simulator second) explicitly says that the mysterious evil force which has stranded you in an endless building complex full of deadly drones is making you fumble and snag the trigger every single time you try to holster/unholster your gun quickly, and is also making the guns malfunction ridiculously often. It's an acknowledged departure from reality, in the service of making management of your gun a bit more unpredictable and consequential.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Det. Bullock on April 19, 2020, 09:52:36 pm
Maybe I'm just a little cynical about the transfer of information/habits from video games to real life, but even with the added emphasis on "firearms are dangerous," it's still a game. A game with a conceit that makes you pause, sure, but still a game. I have my doubts whether it could possibly translate to folks actually being educated about weapon safety IRL, especially because of the massive disconnect between doing something on a keyboard and actually using a firearm safely. It might work better as a VR game, because at least then you have similar muscle memory, but I dunno. IMO, you want someone to learn to respect firearms, take them to a range and put some holes through a target. Even better, take them somewhere safe and put some holes in something more substantial than a soda can or a paper target.

That said, I do think there's room for shooters to include that level of 'realism' (depending on the game of course). I mean, I'm still pretty happy if a game disables, or at least gives me the option to disable, automatic reloading. I know at least one of the many Stalker mods also had a feature that required hitting reload again to clear a jam, which was a nice touch. The Day-Z standalone and several mods for Arma 3 have mechanics that require manually reloading magazines, and manually loading said magazines in the gun, which is another oft-overlooked aspect of firearms, but afaik none of them include having to rack the slide or disable the safety (and certainly nothing about accidentally shooting yourself).

Here I sit, posting my opinions on the internet, about a game I've never played. :rolleyes:
The reload button mashing to unjam a gun was in Far Cry 2 too.
I only have played the first Receiver (and I admit I reinstalled it yesterday after reading this topic just to refresh my memory) and effectively even with all the controls there are a lot of things that don't translate for the simple fact that you aren't manipulating the real thing.
It took me a guide to figure out how to put cartridges in the magazines because with the inherent distance put between player and game I didn't figure out that I had to holster the empty gun first before being allowed to fill the magazine, IRL it would just be "I need two hands to do this, better put the gun aside while I put the bullets in the magazine".

And I think it's part of the reason I always played spacesims with a joystick rather than just mouse and keyboard, to me it makes it feel not just more real than wiggling a mouse pretending to be doing space pew pew but more intuitive as well (and it's probably the reason why I never had problems with Elite Dangerous' controls). VR would probably help a bit but I think it's the disconnect between the keyboard and what you effectively see on screen that makes the game fiddly, half the stuff you need the controls for would probably be done almost without thinking beyond "need to empty the chamber and put the safety on" while in the game you need to think of the buttons and associate the button with the action rather than pull the slider and push the safety, with motion controls you'd probably still need to look at the gun because of the lack of tactile feedback.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Buckshee Rounds on April 20, 2020, 09:41:02 am
I picked this up and it's been rather enjoyable so far. Just noticed my character's reflection in a window. Has anyone else seen this? Weird stuff.
Title: Re: Receiver 2 is great and you should play it.
Post by: Grizzly on April 20, 2020, 09:45:03 am
There's a tape about it.

Spoiler:
A tape talks about how extensive military training involves seeing humans not as humans, but as targets. Eventually don't even recognize themselves as humans anymore. They just see a silhoulette target

For me it's a big indicator that this whole "receiver" thing is not very good