Author Topic: spoilers and plot twist discussion  (Read 13369 times)

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Offline -Sara-

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
Shivans and Vishans arrive, Earth destroyed.

Just, no. Unless you elaborate how.

Looking through WiH, there doesn't seem to be anything that's present in every gameplay section of the campaign. My guess at the big hint is the picture of Jupiter in the background of the briefings. It's basically the first thing you see whenever you start a mission, which certainly counts as staring you in the face. So my prediction is: R2 will revolve around a last ditch attack on Jupiter to break the GTVAs' back and bring them to the negotiating table.

Other misc. guesses:
-Calder's quest for revenge leads him to a Captain Ahab style death
-Ken turns out to be Aken Bosch, who joined the Shivans in the same way Bei joined the Vishnans
-Bei succeeds in contacting the Vishnans, but the Vishnans turn out to be evil somehow

The first point seems possible.

The second point might be possible, I thought so at once too, but they may as well have studied Bosch as a means of communicating more effectively. Lacking a human name, for all we know the voice to Noemi called itself Aken, which Noemi may even have mistaken for Ken as a young child. It might also be coincedence.

The third point seems highly unlikely to me, unless you mean the Vishans have an own agenda. Still the Vishans seem genuine to me.

Or perhaps Byrne did something to that Lucifer derelict.
What Lucifer derelict? What little of the Lucifer came out of that jumpnode in the first place blew up in a pretty massive explosion. I doubt there was much debris left after that, certainly not enough to call it a derelict.

One beam arm survived, as did the front of the hull: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXeI4EJiZh4

It's probably not enough to reverse engineer it, but there should be plenty to take a look into shivan technology, unless it fell into orbit.
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Offline Hades

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
There wouldn't be plenty, the two chunks that survive are barely even Fenris sized, and extremely damaged.
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Offline Ravenholme

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
There wouldn't be plenty, the two chunks that survive are barely even Fenris sized, and extremely damaged.

Plus, having your reactors blown up probably means that anything that was hooked up to the power is scrap.
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Offline ION3

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
Maybe the jumpnode collapses again? (portal misfunction or vishnan influence)

One thing that is in every mission is the changing of Laporte. Look at Aristeia: She says something like: Two squadrons of fighters and a hunter killer team. How are we goint to... [survive that]  At this point she's interrupted  by Ken. Then she says: How are we going to keep them from running away?

Ken definitely transforms her into a warrior and influences the outcome of the war.

 

Offline Raiden

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
-Ken turns out to be Aken Bosch, who joined the Shivans in the same way Bei joined the Vishnans

 :eek: Sounds plausible to me, so plausible I wish I hadn't read it!
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Offline Rodo

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
-Ken turns out to be Aken Bosch, who joined the Shivans in the same way Bei joined the Vishnans

 :eek: Sounds plausible to me, so plausible I wish I hadn't read it!

Dammit, that's a super plot turn.. but no way, can't be tht twisted.
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Offline -Sara-

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
Aken = Ken theory has been suggested a dozen of times in the fanspec thread already. :P

Maybe the jumpnode collapses again? (portal misfunction or vishnan influence)

Just destroying the portal probably collapses the node again. Remember it has only been reopened for less then 2 years. It had no time to stabilize probably.
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Offline Snail

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
Just destroying the portal probably collapses the node again. Remember it has only been reopened for less then 2 years. It had no time to stabilize probably.
The Knossos in Gamma Draconis stabilized after about a month.

 

Offline -Sara-

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
Just destroying the portal probably collapses the node again. Remember it has only been reopened for less then 2 years. It had no time to stabilize probably.
The Knossos in Gamma Draconis stabilized after about a month.

What? Knossos had been there for ages. Surely the Ancients stabilized the subspace node long before that time. It was at best hypothized in one of the missions that it may be ages until the node'd collapse. Sure, the GTC Trinity activated it again but it's obviously been used before (hence it's presence).
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Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
-Bei succeeds in contacting the Vishnans, but the Vishnans turn out to be evil somehow
The third point seems highly unlikely to me, unless you mean the Vishans have an own agenda. Still the Vishans seem genuine to me.

The BP team has pretty emphatically stated that there's more to the Vishnans than they would like us to think. I don't think anything in the BP universe can be described as simply as "good" or "evil", but the Vishnans and the Shivans both definitely have their own agenda.

[EDIT] It had also been deactivated for ages, possibly for several millenia since the Ancients disappeared. Admittedly the Sol node would be harder to stabilize, given that it was actively destroyed instead of just fading away but the Knossos hadn't been on for very long and presumably the node was inaccessible when they found it, or else there would have been no need to activate it.

And yeah, Ken/Aken is an ooold theory- one I still support. If it's not Bosch speaking directly then at least it's the knowledge that the Shivans gained from Bosch.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
What? Knossos had been there for ages. Surely the Ancients stabilized the subspace node long before that time. It was at best hypothized in one of the missions that it may be ages until the node'd collapse. Sure, the GTC Trinity activated it again but it's obviously been used before (hence it's presence).
It had been there, but was inactive for about 8,000 years. It was reactivated by the Trinity, and by the time of the Knossos' destruction by the Renenet the node had stabilized by itself. The time between that couldn't have been more than a few months at the very most.

 

Offline Ravenholme

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
-Ken turns out to be Aken Bosch, who joined the Shivans in the same way Bei joined the Vishnans

 :eek: Sounds plausible to me, so plausible I wish I hadn't read it!

That one has been theorised since shortly after WiH was released. I remember discussing it on IRC way back.
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Offline ION3

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
The Gamma draconis node would propably have collapsed on it's own a few weeks later.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
Or a few years, or a few centuries, or not at all. I'd say it's a case of "whatever works for your campaign".
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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Offline -Norbert-

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
There is another possibility for the Gamma Draconis node. While the portal was blown up, the Sathanas was inside a tunnel. Maybe that juggernaught did something to stabilize the node, when it would have been otherwise destabilized after the portals destruction.
Or the node did indeed start to fade, but did so slowly enough to still let the Shivans send through enough troops. They can use nodes too unstable for GTVA ships after all.

On that matter: Do you think the GTVA cracked that secret to traverse less stable nodes with all the hyperspace research they did to get to the sprint drives?

 

Offline Jellyfish

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
Ken definitely transforms her into a warrior and influences the outcome of the war.

Perhaps he possesses her?
The Vishnans could control ships with their will. Who says they (and therefore the Shivans) can't control people the same way?
Also, they called Bei. What if Laporte is even more sensitive than Bei, making the subconscious call become an urge?
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Offline -Norbert-

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
In AoA the "energy drain" of Beis ship during while he was chasing the Vishnans in a stealth fighter wasn't in the logs of the ship, suggesting it only happened in his head. That would mean the Vishnans indeed have the ability to mess with the Human brain on a far more serious level than communicating telepathically and reading memories.

 

Offline ION3

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
And the same happens in WIH in the KEN mission.

 

Offline terran_emperor

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
-Ken turns out to be Aken Bosch, who joined the Shivans in the same way Bei joined the Vishnans

I've some theories...
1) Ken is Gibson, Sarno or one of the dozen others who left/were taken with Bosch... [Silly]

2) Ken is (a) shivan using Bosch's identity

3) Ken is Bosch...But isn't...
To Explain:
a) The Vishnans are energy being... It's hinted in BP that the Shivans are something similar...Possibly Energy being who can take solid form...Like Lorien or the Vorlons in B5

b) It is semi-canon that the Shivan's have a hive mind based on the tech-room desription. From what I see I BP, the Vishnans are too

c) Samuel Bei was turned into a "sorta-vishnan" - energy being but not quite part of the Vishnan conciensness...but it gained the Vishnan's a better understanding of humanity. Possibly he could have bridge between the Vs and humanity...A sort of Locutus-of-Borg.

d) The shivan's did something similar to Bosch. But unlike Bei, Bosch actually became completly part of the Shivan's hive. But his sense of identity was so strong that it spread through the Shivan Collective consiousness...so the Shivans now exist as a Shivan/Bosch Hybrid...

The Shivans are Bosch. Bosch is the Shivans. Therefore Ken=Aken Bosch=Shivan Collective

Unreleated to "Ken"
4) Shivans and Vishnans are not Seperate species...They are different Aspects of the SAME race...
I'll explain this in a seperate thread soon...It's Vorlon related, so it will be complecated...

one more thing...
I think if Steele dies...It will be in the blaze of Glory taking an entire enemy fleet with him...Think Vice-Admiral Cole's last stand from the Halo-verse...

He will then turn up alive and well and just as badass years later
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 07:35:09 am by terran_emperor »
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Offline Jellyfish

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Re: spoilers and plot twist discussion
I'm pretty sure someone like Steele knows better than staging last stands. He is more valuable defeated but alive than glorious and dead.
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