[Rheavatarin]

Honestly, my node denial strategy would use relatively lighter combatants who have a heavy throw weight and high real-space speed and maneuverability. Put them in groups outside beam range from the node. As the Shivans jump in, have any groups in their path withdraw and bring in the other groups to hit their backside. Back up the corvettes and/or cruisers with a CAP from dedicated strikecraft platforms even further back. Use bombers to drop anything left and cover the ships back to their starting locations.

That has the advantage of not requiring heavy combatants that are expensive, and limited in quantity. I think you have to accept that the Shivans or Vishnans could destroy any one ship they can range on. So, you don't put your destroyers in the most vulnerable place: right in front of a node that a juggernaut has just jumped to. Use your destroyers to fight a running battle through real-space once the node has been breached where they can use their relative strengths to best effect.

[Gee1337]

Node denial could be essentially achieved with multiple ships combined with Mjolnir emplacements. Nothing bigger than a corvette would be needed to do the job, but of course you would just need fleets to do it. So basically what Rheavatarin has said.

The real question is, how many ships/emplacements is it going to take to effectively destroy a Sathanas within a minute of exiting the node? In fact... has anyone FREDded this to find out?

[headdie]

you would need something more capable than Mjolnir to deal with a Sath scale threat.  here is something, that about a Mjolnir that fires an anti subsystem beam designed to target engines and key weapon systems such as the arms of a Sath, how would that work for containing a juggernaut?

[crizza]

So, we know that incoming ships are fast... what would do the job would be amassed ships featuring long range beam cannons.
They would wait just behind the jump horizon and the moment a shivan ship jumps in they would go all hell...

[-Norbert-]

We don't know much about Shivan jump-capabilities, but considering their mastery of unstable nodes, how they blew up a sun using subspace and how advanced they are in technology in general, I'd say it's almost a given that they have something equivalent (or even better) than sprint-drives and thus could make a second jump right after arriving if they chose to.

If that's the case you need something to block them from immediately jumping out again, so only having your defenses on the flanks and behind the jump-in corridor could well be insufficient. No matter how much fire-power the GTVA can mass at a node, there's no way they can bring a Sath (or it's engines) down in a couple of seconds.

Of course it'd be much better to have something cheap and easily replaceable as a blockade than a high-value destroyer. In real life I'd suggest towing a couple of asteroids into position so that incoming ships would have to manouver around them before being able to jump deeper into the system, but with the fragility of asteroids in FS that won't do.

Maybe a dedicated "tank-ship" that's just heavy armour and engines or better yet a very big slab of armour that it towed into position. That way they wouldn't lose any crew once it is blown up.

[crizza]

So some sort of meson bomb minefield?

[Aesaar]

You can't tank a Sathanas.  Hell, you can barely tank a Ravana.  The most effective defense against Shivan beams is to avoid them entirely.  You can kinda see how much of a challenge this is for the GTVA to deal with, given that the Shivans invented the shock jump.

[mosshadow]

Against a Sathanas I would suggest grabbing an old ship, removing all the explosive bits and using it as a decoy. Hopefully if its nothing but cheap engines and scrap metal it wont explode into little bits after the first volley while  two dozen and a Corvette hammer at the sides of the Jug.

[-Norbert-]

You can't tank a Sathanas.  Hell, you can barely tank a Ravana.  The most effective defense against Shivan beams is to avoid them entirely.  You can kinda see how much on a challenge this is for the GTVA to deal with, given that the Shivans invented the shock jump.

It's not meant to actually "tank" it or even to survive. It's only meant to be in the way and prevent the Shivans from immediately jumping out again. A cheap, throw-away stop-gap to slow the Shivans long enough for the actual defenders to do their work. Just a big blob or wall of high density material either towed around by freighters or with some minimal engine capability and remote controll would be enough.

Actually the towed variant seems best. Without any systems, fuel or reactors it can't explode. Sure the Shivans can riddle it with holes, but it'll still be in the way and prevent them from jumping out until the Shivans have managed to manouver around it or at least turn into a different direction.

[Gee1337]

But what would it actually take to bring a Sathanas down very quickly in terms of using ships?

Are we talking 20 corvettes and cruisers? 10 destroyers?

Has anyone actually found out by FREDding it ?

[Lorric]

But what would it actually take to bring a Sathanas down very quickly in terms of using ships?

Are we talking 20 corvettes and cruisers? 10 destroyers?

Has anyone actually found out by FREDding it ?

There's this:

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85350.msg1706688#msg1706688

You could mess around with FRED changing the ships.

[mosshadow]

How strong is it against a Meson bomb explosion?

[Aesaar]

You can't tank a Sathanas.  Hell, you can barely tank a Ravana.  The most effective defense against Shivan beams is to avoid them entirely.  You can kinda see how much on a challenge this is for the GTVA to deal with, given that the Shivans invented the shock jump.

It's not meant to actually "tank" it or even to survive. It's only meant to be in the way and prevent the Shivans from immediately jumping out again. A cheap, throw-away stop-gap to slow the Shivans long enough for the actual defenders to do their work. Just a big blob or wall of high density material either towed around by freighters or with some minimal engine capability and remote controll would be enough.

Actually the towed variant seems best. Without any systems, fuel or reactors it can't explode. Sure the Shivans can riddle it with holes, but it'll still be in the way and prevent them from jumping out until the Shivans have managed to manouver around it or at least turn into a different direction.

Any block big enough to stop a Sathanas (or even a Ravana) from jumping would be better used building a destroyer or something like that.

Why do you assume this would stop a Sathanas from jumping?  Ramming doesn't work in FS/BP, so I'm not entirely sure why you'd expect a blob of metal to stop a Sathanas when an entire Orion barely did any damage to the Colossus.  More likely the Sathanas would jump anyway, and either drag the blob of metal with it or just knock it out of the way.

The materials of any constructed object big and massive enough to stop a Sathanas (or even a Ravana) would be better used building ships.  And I doubt it'd even be possible to get a big enough asteroid into position before the node moved.

[Gee1337]

Thanks for that Lorric... that is an excellent frame of reference and has pretty muched answered the question.

If 50 Hippocrates can take down a Sathanas then 20 Corvettes should not have a problem, especially with those front mounted beams. Focused fire on the engines should stop it jumping as well!

[Lorric]

You're welcome.

I'd be interested to know the results if anyone decides to run tests.

[mosshadow]

Thanks for that Lorric... that is an excellent frame of reference and has pretty muched answered the question.

If 50 Hippocrates can take down a Sathanas then 20 Corvettes should not have a problem, especially with those front mounted beams. Focused fire on the engines should stop it jumping as well!

That sure sounds like a bit much. I doubt the GTVA has more than twice that amount considering how tiny their fleets are.

[Mars]

In BP2 the Tevs seem to run about 15-20 corvettes per battle group, of those around six seem to be next generation combatants and the rest Deimos class.

[AdmiralRalwood]

A quick skimming of this shows the Tevs (just the Tevs) with 35 destroyers. We don't see quite 15-20 corvettes per battle group, but then, the list is also incomplete; at the very least, it's a safe bet that there are many more corvettes than destroyers.

[Mars]

I just realized I brain farted.  What we do know is that the 15th battlegroup, as of the beginning of WiH has confirmed 7 next generation corvettes, 3 Deimos, and 4 cruisers. (10 corvettes and 14 light combatants total.) By the end of Act 3 we've seen several additional corvettes and cruisers seemingly also part of the 15th.

By Act 3 its very hard to be sure of the exact number of Tev supporting warships. We don't know how many were rotated out or how many were brought into Sol. Aesthetically though it seems clear that the number is enough for the UEF to worry about. Considering the Tevs relative willingness to throw corvettes at the 'buntu it doesn't seem like they're worried about running out.

[qwadtep]

Just throwing it out there: if the Tev doctrine is offensive and focuses on things like shock jumps and subspace mobility, then perhaps the defensive Zod doctrine is working on a means of subspace inhibition?
I could totally see them developing something like a reverse Knossos that causes intense local subspace fluctuations, preventing any ship within the area of effect from being able to calculate a jump solution without the proper compensation algorithm. With invaders unable to jump to an in-system rallying point, the Vasudan fleet would be able to cross the T at the node and hold their position with minimal losses.