[Fearless Leader]

Ok, for the past week or so something has bugged me. Why are there no neutral factions in the FS universe? I mean after 60+ years of conflict some people would grow tired of fighting, right?

So where are the guys that refuse to fight?

Are they all executed, or can an individual just leave the GTVA?

[CP5670]

I guess they form factions like the NTF if they're powerful enough. The tech room says that "BETAC dismantled the governments of the Terran blocs and recognized the General Assembly, the Security Council, and the Vasudan Imperium as the supreme authorities of Terran-Vasudan space" so secession isn't allowed.

[Fearless Leader]

If a group did leave, they would mostlikely need to fight to end the fighting, unless...


The ideal of not being forced into combat could draw serious support. The front line and moste experienced units would tire of combat the fastest, just because of the endless-ness of it.

But then what?

[T-Man]

They'd probably go to one of the border systems of the GTVA (Like Altair or Dubhe) where life is quiet. They might even be brave enough to go through the uncharted nodes in Dubhe and Regulus (check the FS2 node map) to start a colony of their own, but it's more likely they just settle in the more peacefull areas of GTVA space.

[Nuclear1]

That seems to be a popular theme in the early parts of campaigns--heading off to a quiet region of GTVA space where life doesn't bother the player as much (i.e. Tau Sigma, anyone?).

I disliked the fact that there were no other factions in the FS2 era. I like the idea of having to deal with not only one big common enemy, but smaller factions to deal with as well--which is why I started up GTI Rebellion and is why I'm anxious for Divided Terrans to be released.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Fearless Leader
Ok, for the past week or so something has bugged me. Why are there no neutral factions in the FS universe? I mean after 60+ years of conflict some people would grow tired of fighting, right?

So where are the guys that refuse to fight?

Are they all executed, or can an individual just leave the GTVA?

I think the seperation of the military and civillian government in FS2 (not sure about prior to, say, BETAC) is somewhat akin to the United Nations today, with the exception that instead of UN peacekeepers we have a 'defense force' type arrangement with the fleet.  So I don't think there's any requirement for a colony, or group, etc to provide military support, although if they don't they'll lose the defense the GTVA offers.

In terms of the wars explicitly mentioned in FS (TV, GTI rebellion, NTF, Shivans - twice), it's not really been a situation where neutrality can be declared, IMO.  The T-V war saw both species at each others throats, the GTI wanted to usurp the government for themselves (NB: wasn't Silent Threat all quite covert, so the public might not know too much until it was defeated?), the NTF were trying to take over other systems and were expelling Vasudans, and the Shivans...well, they're Shivans.

If it was the case of the GTVA attacking a smaller, democratically formed bloc, then maybe it'd be a different case.

[achtung]

The best place to set up a neutral faction IMO would be someplace like Procyon.


Basically though, neutrality would be impossible since there were only two or three foes going at on another at a given point.  If someone on either side tried to form their own nation that was neutral they would be considered traitors and eventually be wiped out.

[Charismatic]

Aside:

Thinking of shivans, i now realize that i think the Shivans, tho a big mistery, Did reconize teh Aquitane. At every turn either the Shivans or NTF was sending bombers and corvets after it, disableing it, and sending destroyers. It seems tho they are mindless killing machines they targeted Aquitane cauze they got defeated by it..

[Fearless Leader]

Charismatic, IMO the shivan tactic is "attack as soon as you can, with as much as you can, for as long as you can" and "if you louse... attack again"

Swantz, I was thinking more along the lines of  Humans or Vasudans that are tired of war, and want to stop fighting eachother so they can focous on fighting the real threat.
Just think of the resources used in the different conflicts, how many HOL, GTI, and NTF ships that would have been of better use fighting Shivans than eachother.

In FS1 there was "The Order of the Eye" mission where The Order was trying to decide to fight with or against the HOL. So maybe the different factions have a say in how their forces are commited.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Charismatic
Aside:

Thinking of shivans, i now realize that i think the Shivans, tho a big mistery, Did reconize teh Aquitane. At every turn either the Shivans or NTF was sending bombers and corvets after it, disableing it, and sending destroyers. It seems tho they are mindless killing machines they targeted Aquitane cauze they got defeated by it..

Geeze, you'd almost imagine it was some sort of game, the way you were in constant action........

The Shivans hit anything and everything they could.   If they prioritised targets, carrier/destroyers would be number one on their list.  Obviously the Shivans can recognise ships (Iceni), but they wouldn't have hit the Aquitane for something so pointless as revenge.

 The NTF hit the Aquitane as it was the head (C&C) of the 5th fleet, and probably one of the GTVAs main sources of force projection in the area, too.

[phatosealpha]

As for the original question....why leave the GTVA if you just don't want to fight?  I haven't heard anything about selective service in the GTVA, and they're constantly talking about civilians here and there that are about to be blowed up real good, so I'd wager most of the GTVA just sit back and do ordinary citizen type things.  After seeing the non-alpha 1 GTVA casuality rate, who can blame them?

Moreover, even if they were to leave, how would that get them out of fighting?  The NTF certainly doesn't strike me as the kind to just happily let neutrals run around in their systems, with all the 'blow up the 'troop transport now alpha 1' and all.  The GTVA isn't likely to blow them up, but they might not be too hasty to help them out if someone else tries.  And the shivans....well, the shivans have a very strict 'blow up anything that's not shivan' policy.

[IceFire]

Neutral factions....totally beside the point.

The Shivans don't recognize anything except the species.  They made that abundantly clear....everything that wasn't Shivan was destroyed in all instances presented to us through the game.  They are xenophobic in every way.

So I think its safe to say that in the FS2 universe, there is a realization that the fighting against Shivans (at the very least) is a necessity to survive.

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by phatosealpha
Moreover, even if they were to leave, how would that get them out of fighting?  The NTF certainly doesn't strike me as the kind to just happily let neutrals run around in their systems, with all the 'blow up the 'troop transport now alpha 1' and all.  The GTVA isn't likely to blow them up, but they might not be too hasty to help them out if someone else tries.  And the shivans....well, the shivans have a very strict 'blow up anything that's not shivan' policy.

If it was a GTVA troop transport carrying troops, that would make it a military target (whether or not it's protected under BETAC).

There's a big difference between troops and supplies.

[karajorma]

I think phatosealpha is refering to the bit in ...But Hate the Traitor where you're ordered to fire on a civilian tranport.

"Hold your fire! No military personnel are on board this transport! We are evacuating civilians to Alpha Centauri. An attack on this vessel is a violation of the Beta Aquilae Convention."
"Show them what you think of the Beta Aquilae Convention, pilot."

It was a bad idea to say this to me as generally I've positioned myself about 5 metres behind alpha 2 and switched over to tempests

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by karajorma
It was a bad idea to say this to me as generally I've positioned myself about 5 metres behind alpha 2 and switched over to tempests

Yeah, I do that too. And let me say that I have some very strong objections to some of the provisions regarding substances and private arms ownership.

Edit: What makes a man turn Neutral...

[Flipside]

Well, if they are neutral and tired of combat, they are probably trying to keep as far away from Alpha 1 as possible

[Cobra]

PH34R ALPHA ONE!!!1111

Originally posted by Charismatic
Aside:

Thinking of shivans, i now realize that i think the Shivans, tho a big mistery, Did reconize teh Aquitane. At every turn either the Shivans or NTF was sending bombers and corvets after it, disableing it, and sending destroyers. It seems tho they are mindless killing machines they targeted Aquitane cauze they got defeated by it..

they weren't going after JUST the Aquitane. they were attacking any Terran or Vasudan fighter, bomber, or capship they found. they didn't 'recognize the aquitaine,' they just attacked it because it was there.