This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad.
On the other hand, who are we making mods for if everyone is too busy making their own? :confused:
On the other hand, who are we making mods for if everyone is too busy making their own? :confused:
Whelp, this thread makes it evident we should shutdown everything and HLP should turn into a gaming forum! :lol:
On all seriousness I've been kinda bored of Freespace, too many people are conservative enough to hail Volition as: "The Gods of Gaming Development (TM)" and refuse to even consider the fact that Volition made a game for 1999 and that we should evolve from and not stagnate by remaining 90% what Volition made (which they wouldn't today.) This close minded idea almost completely invalidates the whole point of the SCP into which many people have poured their souls into.
We need more original campaigns that shake the game-play, we should drop the whole dogfight in space attitude and make something interesting and cool only possible IN SPACE!
Or at least a new art style plz, I'm bored as heck from the old Volition style soulless, colorless texturing from a 1999 game. :(
I'd like to add I also believe all Zods should be worshiped as our true lords and masters. SA-VASUDA!
EDIT: If my wording offends someone I apologize, it was not the intention.
On the other hand, who are we making mods for if everyone is too busy making their own? :confused:
On the other hand, who are we making mods for if everyone is too busy making their own? :confused:I don't make stuff, and I like playing stuff other people make!
Some people both mod and play. :P
And some people only do one. And that's okay. :pAnd some do none, which is more the impression I'm getting this thread was intended for.
We are making them for the next generation of players who will hear how fun fs is and how good the newer mods are from all the previous... players.... dammit.Yup.
yeah we should all just pack up and go home, probably.
On the other hand, who are we making mods for if everyone is too busy making their own? :confused:
Well in the case of Diaspora, we managed to find a completely new audience. :D But there are plenty of people on HLP who don't mod. I'm sure plenty of them play the mods we make.
I just thought that Spoon's comment that anyone who doesn't play FS2 should feel bad was rather heavy handed. If you're enjoying yourself and contributing to the community, why should you feel bad if you don't play FS2 mods? Sure you're missing out on the opportunity to learn the latest tricks, but I'm certainly not going to insist that everyone has to play.
..this thread just seems like it celebrates not playing.I had an impression like this was supposed to be "My name is ***** *****. I am ** years old. I am addicted since ****. I haven't played FS for ** months." but it ended up more like "I haven't played FS for years, what gives?". In other words, too much seriousness here. Or the concept[ppl] simply failed at the very beginning.
I can feel Axem's frustration especially because heQFT
- Makes missions that are technically excellent, probably the most ambitious and sophisticated in the entire community
- Doesn't have a big splashy post-Capella mod, or a TC, or a new universe to draw attention
- Does a lot of his original work in comedy, or in experimental stuff
He works his ass off at a talent level that would, in another community (say, HL2 modding) have him routinely pulling press coverage and download numbers to make Diaspora green with envy.
Not everyone has the benefit of making a stellar mod and/or stand alone game that goes across every major gaming site. :p
I won't say that everyone should be forced to play, but shouldn't we be encouraging everyone to play? And this thread just seems like it celebrates not playing. Unless its supposed to guilt them into playing again... Then bravo, I guess!
I don't think we should shame or ostracize people for not playing FreeSpace either. My last sentence in that comment was a bit of a joke.
I don't see what's wrong with this thread.See
The first impression I got from the thread title was "hey, people that used to play freespace all the time, it's been awhile for me, how long has it been since YOU moved on to other things?" The title suggests to me a backward looking mindset into an "old" game whose glory days have already passed, not taking into account that - as has been stated several times - some of the coolest, most innovative stuff that's been done with the engine has been done in the past few years and continues now. That mindset can poison a community. It's been 13 years, and we're finally getting to the really good stuff.I think this sums it up pretty good!
I haven't called anyone out for totally ignoring my mod when talking about alternate flight models (while also bringing up Wings of Dawn which actually has a flight model closer to regular old FreeSpace), so hey. :pWell you bloody should! DE is criminally overlooked.
The first impression I got from the thread title was "hey, people that used to play freespace all the time, it's been awhile for me, how long has it been since YOU moved on to other things?" The title suggests to me a backward looking mindset into an "old" game whose glory days have already passed, not taking into account that - as has been stated several times - some of the coolest, most innovative stuff that's been done with the engine has been done in the past few years and continues now. That mindset can poison a community. It's been 13 years, and we're finally getting to the really good stuff.
I had an impression like this was supposed to be "My name is ***** *****. I am ** years old. I am addicted since ****. I haven't played FS for ** months." but it ended up more like "I haven't played FS for years, what gives?". In other words, too much seriousness here.
QuoteI don't see what's wrong with this thread.SeeQuoteThe first impression I got from the thread title was "hey, people that used to play freespace all the time, it's been awhile for me, how long has it been since YOU moved on to other things?" The title suggests to me a backward looking mindset into an "old" game whose glory days have already passed, not taking into account that - as has been stated several times - some of the coolest, most innovative stuff that's been done with the engine has been done in the past few years and continues now. That mindset can poison a community. It's been 13 years, and we're finally getting to the really good stuff.I think this sums it up pretty good!
EDIT: One thing HLP has done is broaden my view. I started reading what people are saying and understanding them better than I should. Whether it be political, religious, scientific, or women's issues, I feel that HLP has been a major influence in my thinking of the world. Also, this broadening of views applies to reading threads too.
I don't see what's wrong with this thread.
For the record, in my position : I've just stated that I haven't player anything since the last big-ish release that I was interested in. I'm assuming many others are in the same boat.
I could give less of a damn about total conversions set in non-original universes that I know nothing about, because they probably assume that I do know something about said universe, and proceed to deprive me of critical information (that an actual fan of the universe would obviously know and would be bored hearing restated). Not to mention that I haven't looked into the originals precisely because their descriptions never really hooked me. I mean sure, I know they're great achievements in terms of the technical modding perspective but I wouldn't play it just for that - I'd rather just have someone tell me what they did that was so cool. I don't see it being worth downloading several GB of otherwise useless data just to see a tech demo. I haven't called anyone out for totally ignoring my mod when talking about alternate flight models (while also bringing up Wings of Dawn which actually has a flight model closer to regular old FreeSpace), so hey. :P
You can bet that when WiH2, or JAD 2.22 comes out I'm sure as hell playing it, but the reality of the fact is that between work, classes, homework, and a mother****ing honours thesis there just isn't time to play campaigns I'm not totally interested in, and contribute to projects I'm already on. I feel that's the position most people who haven't played in a while are in, rather than being "burned out". I'd sure as hell be playing more if doing so contributed to REAL LIFE and all...
Anyhow, I feel like the whole "THIS THREAD IS BAD" posting is worse than the actual thread itself. It's not about to change anything and just makes this have a more negative and depressing atmosphere than it needs to.
And no, don't tell me to play Sync, Transcend, VD, and Windmills. Those don't interest me. Yes, I am a horrible person for that.
And no, don't tell me to play Sync, Transcend, VD, and Windmills. Those don't interest me. Yes, I am a horrible person for that.
These campaigns don't share any common elements so I can't see why you'd be disinterested in all of them.
I have a half-completed thread in Gen FS intended to provide historical and artistic context for every major campaign.
It might be nice to have a "HLP Community Playthrough" type of thing where every month or so a campaign would be selected and players would be encouraged to try or revisit it and post about their experience in the thread, just discussing whatever they find noteworthy about it and letting the discussion go wherever (within reason). Veterans could chime in with insight about the context of the time it was created in, and new players would be encouraged to join in without having to feel like they were all on their own, exhuming a corpse buried in 2003 or whatever. I guess this is sort of similar to the wiki's featured campaigns, but:
1. It requires less executive effort than writing up a wiki page
2. The forum is where the bulk of HLP's activity is
3. We wouldn't be limited to only the best campaigns, as there is a lot to be learned from (and enjoyed) in the not-so-hot campaigns as well
Anyway, it could be a fun way to make it easy for new or returning FS'ers to get playing. Sometime you just need an excuse.
I have a half-completed thread in Gen FS intended to provide historical and artistic context for every major campaign.
If only it wasn't just half-complete :(
I do find it interesting (and somewhat of a relief) that I'm not the only one who finds it hard to just play after having gotten into modding. It's really hard for me to just enjoy FS2 (or any variants) when I know how (relatively) easy it is for me to go and "fix" the things I don't like.I think this falls under the "TVTropes will ruin your life" category on the aforementioned site; the gist of it is that the more you learn about literary devices and genre tropes, the more you start to see them in the media you consume, to the point where it can interfere with the experience. I could definitely see the same thing happening to an experienced campaign creator while playing through someone else's work. By the same token, though, there's also the possibility that you could come across some little trick that makes you stop and think, "Holy crap, how did they pull that off?", and then fire up FRED to take a look.
It's a strange position to be in where the power to change the game makes it hard for me to enjoy it as it is.
I think this falls under the "TVTropes will ruin your life" category on the aforementioned site; the gist of it is that the more you learn about literary devices and genre tropes, the more you start to see them in the media you consume, to the point where it can interfere with the experience. I could definitely see the same thing happening to an experienced campaign creator while playing through someone else's work. By the same token, though, there's also the possibility that you could come across some little trick that makes you stop and think, "Holy crap, how did they pull that off?", and then fire up FRED to take a look.
... i haven't really played since i started working on the voice acting of fall of epsilon pegasi...By the way, if you're in need of a human instead of a TTS, let me know. I try to imagine that I sound better than a computer.
I haven't played FS in at least a year, with the exception of two missions of Diaspora before it crashed and it didn't hook me in enough for me to try again (probably because I've never seen BSG). The problem is that to me the gameplay is all the same, no matter the mod or alterations. I stopped playing the Antagonist after a few missions because I got bored - people kept telling me that the gameplay was nothing like FS, but I couldn't see it - it all felt the same to me just with different weapons, models and table values.
The worst thing about this thread is the effect it has on creatives. This community exists because people are willing to put in time. If nobody cares about that time, or takes advantage of its results, well...
Oh don't get depressed too much. I do enjoy everything you create, and if I can't play it myself, I try to watch it on youtube and so on. Also, there's a whole multitude of people who do play it and just aren't interested in chit chats ;)
The worst thing about this thread is the effect it has on creatives. This community exists because people are willing to put in time. If nobody cares about that time, or takes advantage of its results, well...
Seriously, what's in the water that is making everyone such sadsacks recently? A thread like this should be a place to make a few people realise "****! It's been that long? Better go fire up FS!"Different people seem to be having different interpretation's of the original intention of this thread. I for one can't make out anything positive out of the opening post. And apparantly I'm not the only one who can't.
The worst thing about this thread is the effect it has on creatives. This community exists because people are willing to put in time. If nobody cares about that time, or takes advantage of its results, well...Yuuup.
Indeed. Based on this thread... I doubt I'll be starting any new, big projects. I mean, I've worked very hard to modernize almost all of the FS1 (and more important to this thread) and FS2 interface assets. Cutscenes, mainhalls, cbanims, weapon models, medals. (These are in varrying states of completion.) If no one even bothers to even play the retail campaign, then what am I doing all of that for? Is it so that 5 or 6 people can download my cutscenes, upload them to YouTube and not give credit? Cause that's happened, and that sucks...
Quite separately, I find it interesting how many people have confessed not playing FS in a long time here, but definitely have gone to the FSU board to complain about this and that.
If it's worth anything, I see a lot of enthusiasm off-site for FSO. SomethingAwful had a pretty active FS2O thread for a long time.That doesn't make any sense. If they have interest for FSO why aren't they coming over here ?
If it's worth anything, I see a lot of enthusiasm off-site for FSO. SomethingAwful had a pretty active FS2O thread for a long time.That doesn't make any sense. If they have interest for FSO why aren't they coming over here ?
Indeed. Based on this thread... I doubt I'll be starting any new, big projects. I mean, I've worked very hard to modernize almost all of the FS1 (and more important to this thread) and FS2 interface assets. Cutscenes, mainhalls, cbanims, weapon models, medals. (These are in varrying states of completion.) If no one even bothers to even play the retail campaign, then what am I doing all of that for? Is it so that 5 or 6 people can download my cutscenes, upload them to YouTube and not give credit? Cause that's happened, and that sucks...I'm an FS1 fetishist and huge fan of all the work you've poured into the FS Port. I can't keep track of how many times I've played through The Main FreeSpace Campaign. I've only managed to replay the FS2 campaign to the end once, and I think that was still on retail. I know there have to be a lot of FS1 fans lurking out there, and since I'm not even sure if retail FS1 will install on today's machines, the work you do is really invaluable. Thank you. :)
Indeed. Based on this thread... I doubt I'll be starting any new, big projects. I mean, I've worked very hard to modernize almost all of the FS1 (and more important to this thread) and FS2 interface assets. Cutscenes, mainhalls, cbanims, weapon models, medals. (These are in varrying states of completion.) If no one even bothers to even play the retail campaign, then what am I doing all of that for?
Ha! I already have that. Right inside my mind. Yeah. :pimp:Oh don't get depressed too much. I do enjoy everything you create, and if I can't play it myself, I try to watch it on youtube and so on. Also, there's a whole multitude of people who do play it and just aren't interested in chit chats ;)
I'm not worried about myself! But there's plenty of people on HLP who don't have the benefit of an awesome subforum full of thoughtful people.
Most people consider HLP to be a "modders" forum, and not actually a "players" forum. So you would expect most people here to be a "modder" of some sort. I myself feel a little odd to be even posting in here sometimes, as if I don't really deserve it. Or something.
Indeed. Based on this thread... I doubt I'll be starting any new, big projects. I mean, I've worked very hard to modernize almost all of the FS1 (and more important to this thread) and FS2 interface assets. Cutscenes, mainhalls, cbanims, weapon models, medals. (These are in varrying states of completion.) If no one even bothers to even play the retail campaign, then what am I doing all of that for? Is it so that 5 or 6 people can download my cutscenes, upload them to YouTube and not give credit? Cause that's happened, and that sucks...
Quite separately, I find it interesting how many people have confessed not playing FS in a long time here, but definitely have gone to the FSU board to complain about this and that.
Indeed. Based on this thread... I doubt I'll be starting any new, big projects. I mean, I've worked very hard to modernize almost all of the FS1 (and more important to this thread) and FS2 interface assets. Cutscenes, mainhalls, cbanims, weapon models, medals. (These are in varrying states of completion.) If no one even bothers to even play the retail campaign, then what am I doing all of that for? Is it so that 5 or 6 people can download my cutscenes, upload them to YouTube and not give credit? Cause that's happened, and that sucks...
Quite separately, I find it interesting how many people have confessed not playing FS in a long time here, but definitely have gone to the FSU board to complain about this and that.
Indeed. Based on this thread... I doubt I'll be starting any new, big projects. I mean, I've worked very hard to modernize almost all of the FS1 (and more important to this thread) and FS2 interface assets. Cutscenes, mainhalls, cbanims, weapon models, medals. (These are in varrying states of completion.) If no one even bothers to even play the retail campaign, then what am I doing all of that for? Is it so that 5 or 6 people can download my cutscenes, upload them to YouTube and not give credit? Cause that's happened, and that sucks...Pretty much every time there's been a new MediaVPs/FSPort release in the time I've been here, I've made it a point to replay the retail campaigns (or at least campaigns that use mostly-retail assets) to see all of the new stuff in action. I'm well overdue for another playthrough, though if the Upgrade team has a potential release planned for the next few months, I might just hold off until then.
I haven't played FS in at least a year, with the exception of two missions of Diaspora before it crashed and it didn't hook me in enough for me to try again (probably because I've never seen BSG). The problem is that to me the gameplay is all the same, no matter the mod or alterations. I stopped playing the Antagonist after a few missions because I got bored - people kept telling me that the gameplay was nothing like FS, but I couldn't see it - it all felt the same to me just with different weapons, models and table values.
I doubt you got far enough in to judge that.Spoiler:If you've played a campaign before in which you flip in and out of subspace whenever you want in order to battle enemies that can 'submerge' and 'surface' I'd be very shocked.
P.S. You may have marketing issues, considering the statement this is a moders forum not a players forum. Not many young people here know about FS2. Maybe you need a greater you-tube presence. Is it possible to make a gripping mini movie of your most popular work to get non moders attention?
P.S. You may have marketing issues, considering the statement this is a moders forum not a players forum. Not many young people here know about FS2. Maybe you need a greater you-tube presence. Is it possible to make a gripping mini movie of your most popular work to get non moders attention?
Never gonna beat this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhAR8rWPluQ)
I would argue that you really need more than story. A trailer needs a couple things. So it needs to explain what the piece is about or explain the plot some. equally important it needs to have an attention getter or something to hold the viewers interest; this could be some funny dialogue, an interesting idea, a cool scene, action sequence, or plot revel. It needs to give the viewer a reason to care which might be fulfilled by the attention getter and maybe something to unify the above themes.
Sorry for this, but gonna rag on the FreeSpace Movie trailer to illustrate the point. That trailer was an intriguing idea in how it was put together, but honestly wasn't as good as it could have been. It did nothing to enlighten the viewer to what the game/media was about. If I hadn't played the games, I wouldn't have a clue what it was about. I asked my sister for her summary of what it was about and her response was "Well. . .there are some ships. . ..and they're doing. . ..stuff". That pretty much all I got out of it as well. The trailer also lacked a full scale attention getter. The music served very very well as a unifying theme and partly as an attention getter, but after about 50 seconds in I'd lost interest because nothing was happening and the song couldn't keep me occupied that long. What would have alleviated both major issues in my opinion was some sequences of actually flying and shooting and explosions and fighting the shivans after the 35-40 second mark. Alternate between the action sequence and the solemn view of the iceni moving and Bosch's solemn viewing of whatever and portray that as a reflection on the war. Have the flying and shooting sequences mute so that the only sound is still twinkle twinkle little star, and try and illustrate a struggle against the shivans where humanity clearly isn't winning to fir the dark tone of the music.
Now to bring this back to the relevance of Spidey's Awesome Trailer and the elements in it. ok what does this trailer tell us? Its about space ships and a war. humans are being attacked by evil looking ships and they are losing (i.e. all the stuff blowing up that isn't evil looking). the humans respond and put up a fight, but the outcome is uncertain though it looks slightly grimm with the deimos making a suicide run on the super big evil ship at the end. Now attention getter. that comes out right at the start as the tension is ratcheted up by the frantic sounding pilot as he freaks about about something. the shivans pop in, lots of cool explosions and dialogue that fits well with the scene. Basically Spidey's trailer hold the attention. now as a reason to care, there was an explenation at the start to "say freespace was a game in ...xxxxx""....dedicated modding community has worked on it since.. ...xxxxx".... and then you have the end with the "come see what you have been missing" bit encourage viewers to come visit the website.
tl;dr = spidey has an awesome trailer with all elements needed to make a good trailer
p.s. to the maker of the Freespace move trailer, sorry about picking apart your work and hating on it. I think It was actually really cool, and I know that I could not make a better trailer myself.
Never gonna beat this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhAR8rWPluQ)
Beskargam pointed out its various flaws in that quoted post
[elements of an effective trailer]
[shortcomings of Spidey's trailer that greatly limit its effectiveness as a marketing tool, with suggestions for improvement]
[summary of the trailer, focusing on the good points]
[tl;dr that, well, kinda sugarcoats his criticism and contradicts his first two paragraphs]
[apology to Spidey for criticizing his trailer]
p.s. to the maker of the Freespace move trailer, sorry about picking apart your work and hating on it. I think It was actually really cool, and I know that I could not make a better trailer myself.
There's no reason to contradict yourself just to be nice... You may not have the technical skills to make a trailer, but you clearly have an idea of the elements a trailer requires in order to be a successful piece of advertising.
[elements of an effective trailer]
[shortcomings of THE FREESPACE MOVIE TRAILER, which involves Bosch monologues, an Iceni, and Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. This is NOT THE TRAILER I LINKED; the one I linked does not involve Bosch, an Iceni, or Twinkle Twinkle Little Star]
[summary of the AWESOME SPIDEY TRAILER, the one THAT I LINKED, explaining why it is more effective and different
[tl;dr that doesn't contradict itself because he has been talking about two different things]
[apology to the maker of Trailer #1, the one that I did not link, for the unflattering comparison to trailer #2, that I did link
Battuta, I know you can read, but I'll summarize his post anyway, paragraph by paragraph
WiH has a capship command mission and some other new gameplay elements. It's also notable for having non-retarded AI, and both Blueplanets are notable for having some possibly-supernatural elements.
WiH has a capship command mission and some other new gameplay elements. It's also notable for having non-retarded AI, and both Blueplanets are notable for having some possibly-supernatural elements.
Definitely not, at least by the standards of SF
Your spoilered text ranges from understandable misinterpretations to bad misunderstandings. I'm happy to talk about it further in the BP forum, though, of course, I have to warn you about the futility of debate when one side has all the information and the other doesn't.
In BP one does not quite get that.
Of course then you'd run the risk of Bill from Left 4 Dead barking orders at Gordon Freeman. :D
Pootis bomber here!
The BP trailers are awesome. I loved them.
But I may be prudent to show the Human struggle. Human emotions and Ideology struggles, that draw one to the characters. The FS2 Creators used Bosh's monologues for that. But the FS2 does not come with a movie maker with Characters and bridge backdrops. It would be a nice tool for campaign makers to tell the background of Characters. Limiting the need for in game chat to describe the cultural, family and emotional backgrounds. using in game chat instead to show reactions of the Characters to new situations. Does the new interaction bring out the normal projected emotion? Or does promote a degeneration in the Characters personality or Improve it. You highlight and preview history: but the player experiences the change.
And also show "what is the adventure of playing the campaign". The fun stuff the a pilot would enjoy. The original FS2 intro showed both a great Capital ship battle and an epic dog fight battle that made one want to play the game. The "Bastion Dies", there was a little dogfight too.