Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: StratComm on September 28, 2005, 10:57:54 pm

Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on September 28, 2005, 10:57:54 pm
*hop*

(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/mystery1.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/mystery3.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/mystery4.jpg)

It's obviously not complete, and I'm actually posting this to get general opinions on the change I'm making to the style.  Oh, and first person to name the ship gets a cookie ;)
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Depth_Charge on September 28, 2005, 11:04:03 pm
looks nice.......kinda has a beam cannon install, but its the docking bay correct??
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on September 28, 2005, 11:05:49 pm
The docking bay is my addition.  Just big enough to accomodate a pair of Hermes pods, nothing else.  And it doesn't have to be a docking bay, there's nothing stopping me from filling that with windows since it's shielded from most directions.  And that's the dockpoint on the front.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: redmenace on September 28, 2005, 11:05:52 pm
Hipocrates?
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on September 28, 2005, 11:07:43 pm
Ding!  Cookie for Redmenace!

I'm trying to figure out how to attach the lower pod right now.  The :v: model is one of the worst in terms of actual detail.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Galemp on September 28, 2005, 11:44:43 pm
For reference...
(http://www.fuerzaimperial.com/vehiculos/capitales/fragata_n-b.jpg)

Alternatively you could reduce it to an open framework with elevator tubes and occasional intermediate decks. The pods are supposed to be seperate and easily sealed off, anyhow.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Bobboau on September 28, 2005, 11:48:10 pm
I say don't look at the V model hardly at all, it is a crime.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on September 28, 2005, 11:48:44 pm
That's actually precisely what I'm leaning towards (the open lattice with tubes connecting small box-like nodes) though I'm a tad bit worried about the polycount that's going to ential.  At any rate, the front isn't really what worries me at this point, to be honest, as the engineering section is going to be an absolute nightmare.

EDIT: Bob, I'm intending to use the :v: model for spacing only.  All of the geometry is going to be completely reworked, as it does look like ass.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Rictor on September 28, 2005, 11:51:46 pm
Does the ship actually, you know, show up in the game? It's been a while, I admit, but I don't remember seeing it, or at least not very often.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Bobboau on September 28, 2005, 11:51:49 pm
then you model looks better already.

if you'r worried about small details ramping up the poly count, don't forget about detail boxes.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on September 28, 2005, 11:56:27 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
Does the ship actually, you know, show up in the game? It's been a while, I admit, but I don't remember seeing it, or at least not very often.


It's in Dunkerque and Apocalypse at least.  Derelict also uses it once or twice, a bunch of missions in Homesick have them, and I'm sure a number of other campaigns do as well.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Black Wolf on September 29, 2005, 12:07:23 am
Excellent :)

I was hoping you'd pick this one up after you mentioned it on SG - it really has some potential to be a cool High poly job, and it looks like it's getting there already.

One thing I would suggest though is to keep the Nebulon similarities under control - the basic design of the ship is similar certainly, and I'd say someone at [V] had it in mind while this was still in the design phase. But you don't want the final model ending up too much like it - a tip of the hat is good, taking the entire thing off, not so good. Also, it looks a lot more solid than the nebulon in the V model and the concept art - I don't think it would carry over too well if you went for the nodey sort of look.

(http://www.geocities.com/alpha_quadrant_project/conceptpics/GTM_Hippocrates.jpg)
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: FireCrack on September 29, 2005, 12:13:57 am
When in doubt, follow the concept art!


Seriously, when deisgning an HTL model, let your creaticve liscence soar! But be wary the tale of the man who flew too high!
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Ace on September 29, 2005, 12:29:19 am
I'd follow the concept art. Keep the blocky, Terran look, don't be tempted to StarWarsize it.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: BlackDove on September 29, 2005, 12:40:02 am
I'd say... use Aldo's Lost Souls thingie as a "look at" item as you go with it.

(http://www.sectorgame.com/aldo/media/gtd_carrier.jpg)

It's not the same by a long shot, but it's rather similar and there are a few things they should have in common.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: redmenace on September 29, 2005, 01:09:10 am
That is actually a really good piece of concept art too.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Admiral Nelson on September 29, 2005, 11:03:19 am
Don't forget to fix the LOD enteries in ships.tbl!  The Hippocrates has values appropriate to a small fighter, not a cruiser sized vessel.  Makes it annoying subject to pop in....
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: CP5670 on September 29, 2005, 11:27:33 am
I must be missing something here. How does that ship in the first post look anything like a Hippocrates? Or is it only a part of it? :confused:
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Anaz on September 29, 2005, 11:30:42 am
It's only a part. But for the life of me, I can't figure out which one.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Col. Fishguts on September 29, 2005, 12:07:02 pm
Looks like the bridge, with an added docking tube.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on September 29, 2005, 03:21:51 pm
The docking tube isn't added, it's just made bigger.  It wasn't tall enough to get one human through, so in the name of sanity I turned it in to a proper docking tube.

Also, since we're refering to that change, I'd like to point out that I can't really find any evidence that :v: intended it to actually be a dockpoint.  Unfortunately that's where the dockpoint actually is, which is one of the main reasons I've had to redesign the front as radically as I have.

And for those of you who can't figure out where this fits in the big picture, you may find these useful:
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/backend1.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/backend2.jpg)
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on October 04, 2005, 10:10:41 pm
Mock-up time.  I refuse to believe those connecting fins should just be fins, and they are way to small to support habitable space.  So here's a (very primitive) concept of the two ways I'm thinking of addressing it.  The first is a more aggressive treatment, while the second retains the fin but uses it as the backbone for additional room-like structures.  Any thoughts?  Remember, both of these are just mock-ups.

(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/nodey.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/filled.jpg)
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: FireCrack on October 04, 2005, 10:37:03 pm
I like 2 better, 1 just loks weird.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Ace on October 04, 2005, 10:37:35 pm
Definately the second as it keeps the original shape.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Galemp on October 04, 2005, 11:41:38 pm
Maybe something intermediate? Take the thin connecting boxes you have in the first one, and angle them so they follow the edges of the original slope. In other words, connect those larger boxes on the diagonals.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on October 04, 2005, 11:47:07 pm
I'm not particularly fond of that actually.  It comes out looking like those couldn't be elevator shafts and corridors.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Galemp on October 05, 2005, 12:05:32 am
Hm. Are those boxes even big enough to be rooms?

If so, perhaps just have them connected horizontally to the main elevator shaft for circulation purposes. Then use the diagonal beams and girders only for structural support.
Title: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on October 05, 2005, 12:09:13 am
I've actually got a little two-meter-tall block I'm using as a proportionality test.  Those blocks really are too small, but the ones I'm actually considering using are big enough to be two decks tall.  What I think I'm leaning towards is actually a different kind of hybrid; the horizontal connecting bars with the "fin" as a thin structural brace in between everything.  If I end up doing it this way it will be detail-box modeled so that the detail needed on the rooms won't be rendered at medium range.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded (Update)
Post by: StratComm on December 15, 2005, 01:57:00 am
Bumpage :p

So I'm still having the hardest time with the Hippocrates.  The thing refuses to go together like I want it to.  Small update though.

(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/progress1.jpg)

And, since this is basically in deadlock right now, I've started playing with another small project.  There's detail in the map to work from, so this one will not take nearly as long.

(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/medusa.jpg)
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Mongoose on December 15, 2005, 03:18:07 am
And, since this is basically in deadlock right now, I've started playing with another small project.  There's detail in the map to work from, so this one will not take nearly as long.
If that's what I think it is, you are my hero.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Col. Fishguts on December 15, 2005, 03:39:28 am
I like the vertical connection on the Hipocrates you settled for.

The Medusa cockpit looks top notch :yes:
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on December 16, 2005, 04:58:26 pm
Moving along...  I'm keeping it blocky, as it's just not the medusa if it doesn't have hard lines.  There are a few spots around the cockpit where that will change, but the overall squareness won't go away.  At least not on my watch.  I'm considering the engines and missile pods done, and have started work on the body.  The hardest part looks like it's going to be the connectors to the pods; the texture implies something in there, but I can't make out exactly what.

(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/medusaprog1.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/medusaprog2.jpg)
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: IncendiaryLemon on December 16, 2005, 06:20:00 pm
Looks fantastic and you finally get a sense of scale... those pods are massive.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: FireCrack on December 16, 2005, 06:46:51 pm
not as big as the ursa ones...
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Pnakotus on December 16, 2005, 07:25:21 pm
But come on, you can almost launch Ulys out of Ursa bays... :)
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Ghost on December 16, 2005, 09:51:50 pm
I seriously hope either you or someone plans on hi-rezifying those textures. *shiver* Ew.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Turambar on December 16, 2005, 10:43:34 pm
i'll do it
you want me to do it?
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on December 16, 2005, 10:49:56 pm
It's already 512x1024, so I'm not sure what you'd do with it.  It's not like the map that we have is wanting for detail.  And for the record, I'm about 80% done I think.

(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/medusaprog3.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/medusaprog4.jpg)
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Pnakotus on December 16, 2005, 11:00:24 pm
Is there anything you can do to smooth out the area where the neck meets the main body?  There's a huge triangle right there, and you can't look at the model without seeing it.   :blah:
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on December 16, 2005, 11:40:54 pm
<replaced with current update>

Ok, opinion time :)

(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/medusaHTL1.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/medusaHTL2.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/medusaHTL3.jpg)
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: FireCrack on December 17, 2005, 12:27:25 am
how many tri's is that?
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on December 17, 2005, 12:30:53 am
Lots and lots.  I haven't actually done a hard count recently and I just closed Max up for the night.  I'm guessing that it's in the neighborhood of 4000 though.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Trivial Psychic on December 17, 2005, 12:33:49 am
How 'bout making those thruster paddles into separate sub-models, so someone can get them animated, triggered to control movements.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Ghost on December 17, 2005, 12:37:02 am
How 'bout making those thruster paddles into separate sub-models, so someone can get them animated, triggered to control movements.

Now that would be pretty cool. Hell, if you got that working, you could do the same thing to the Herc 1's thingies.

Opinion: YAY! Now I can destroy capital ships with all the fancy glory of a high poly bomber.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on December 17, 2005, 12:46:04 am
How 'bout making those thruster paddles into separate sub-models, so someone can get them animated, triggered to control movements.

Unfortunately not only will I not be doing that, I don't think that's ever going to happen.  While it would be cool, I'm forced to remember that this is supposed to take place in space, where a rudder would do precisely squat at controling motion, and that there will be both a glowpoint and a nebula trail on the tip of those things that would get messed up to hell and back if the rudders were animatable.  Of course, the modder in me also says no because I'm trying to keep everything under a single render call so that it's faster.  The only thing not on the one map is the pilot (seperate submodel) and the glass (small TGA texture) and with the polycount issue that I'm forcing I'm not breaking it up any farther.

And it's just over 3700 tris, for the record.  Plus pilot, turret and barrel submodels, it's a little over 4300.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: FireCrack on December 17, 2005, 12:47:04 am
^thrust vectoring.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Trivial Psychic on December 17, 2005, 01:04:18 am
Ya, thrust vectoring in space is concievable, but your modding concerns are valid.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Pnakotus on December 17, 2005, 01:19:54 am
Excellent.  What was your inspiration for the cylinders in the pod linkages?
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Turambar on December 17, 2005, 11:01:20 am
It's already 512x1024, so I'm not sure what you'd do with it. It's not like the map that we have is wanting for detail.

how about i make it 1024x1024 and look at it just cause im bored, see what i can come up with, at least fix up the colors

it wont be like the pegasus, with the cooperation, you finish the model, and i'll make the texture suit it a little better
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on December 17, 2005, 11:18:38 am
Excellent.  What was your inspiration for the cylinders in the pod linkages?

Interestingly enough, the original maps themselves.  They imply some sort of structure inside the interconnect that runs from one end to the other, and I figured cylinders would be the best option there.  I'm sure I've seen it in some other model, but I can't begin to figure out exactly where.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on December 17, 2005, 06:58:29 pm
Done!

medusa.zip (http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/medusa.zip)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/screen0258.jpg)
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Depth_Charge on December 17, 2005, 07:15:59 pm
nice......very nice...
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: starfox on December 18, 2005, 07:43:07 am
Verrry Terranish and super nice...
Dual cockpit looks pretty cool.

Little out of topic here, but what is the status of HTL Ulysses ?
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: SnakeEyes on December 18, 2005, 01:35:17 pm
I personally agree with the terranish feeling.

Thumbs up for it!!

 :yes:
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Cobra on December 18, 2005, 04:16:07 pm
my favorite bomber! :D

the only thing i don't like is the turret. :nervous:
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: starfox on December 18, 2005, 04:28:01 pm
I'd like the turret, if it would face forward, not upward...
But still, the model is truly outstanding...
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Col. Fishguts on December 18, 2005, 05:39:55 pm
Way cool :yes:

(http://n.ethz.ch/student/ebuerli/download/htl_medusa.jpg)
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: IncendiaryLemon on December 18, 2005, 11:39:38 pm
 :D
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Ypoknons on December 19, 2005, 01:03:29 am
Good stuff; I just wished you took a bit of creative interpetation over the cockpit and added some modelled plating.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Solatar on December 19, 2005, 07:25:43 am
I love it.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Wanderer on December 19, 2005, 08:18:08 am
I'd like the turret, if it would face forward, not upward...
But still, the model is truly outstanding...
Animation code.... (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Animation_Code)
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Janos on December 19, 2005, 10:12:50 am
I bet the pilot is feeling horribly exposed in that tiny tin can of a cockpit of his.

It's nothing about the HTL version, I understand that that's just what Medusa looks like. Still, the bulky rear and the sleek, tender, tiny cockpit seem somewhat humorously constrating to me.
But at least he's a bit farther from the engines/weaponry when **** hits the fan. Not that it matters. WE FIGHT TILL DEATH FOR HONOUR GLORY AND EMPEROR
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Solatar on December 19, 2005, 10:56:51 am
Actually, with cockpit view enabled, it feels VERY secure. Bars all around you.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on December 21, 2005, 10:45:59 am
Good stuff; I just wished you took a bit of creative interpetation over the cockpit and added some modelled plating.

I bet the pilot is feeling horribly exposed in that tiny tin can of a cockpit of his.

It's nothing about the HTL version, I understand that that's just what Medusa looks like. Still, the bulky rear and the sleek, tender, tiny cockpit seem somewhat humorously constrating to me.
But at least he's a bit farther from the engines/weaponry when **** hits the fan. Not that it matters. WE FIGHT TILL DEATH FOR HONOUR GLORY AND EMPEROR
Talk to :v: about ship design, not me.  The cockpit is actually huge, much larger than it needs to be even for two men, and since my stated goal was to improve what I consider an already great design the last thing I was going to do was to start messing around with the proportions and shape of one of the two essential features of the Medusa.  And besides, the LOD transition from LOD0 to LOD1 is VERY smooth, and LOD1 is just the old LOD0 model.

And while I never intended this thing to be used with cockpit view enabled (they're there for show for when you're trying to plant lasers up their exhausts, really) I'm glad they work ok for that.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Ypoknons on December 21, 2005, 07:21:32 pm
Nothing against your modelling, StratComm. I understand your decisions to stay true and respect that, it's just what I would have done in your place.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Janos on December 22, 2005, 08:44:41 am
words

I know, it wasn't directed at you.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Ace on December 22, 2005, 02:37:33 pm
Spectacular!

Now we just need the Athena, Apollo, Ursa... ;)
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Nuclear1 on December 22, 2005, 04:00:57 pm
This is good.

Very good.

*downloads immediately* :biggrin1:
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Taristin on December 25, 2005, 06:10:29 pm
Spectacular!

Now we just need the Athena, Apollo, Ursa... ;)

I *may* do the Athena. But I doubt I'll do it justice.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Cobra on December 25, 2005, 09:27:20 pm
oh noes! a vasudan making a terran ship! :shaking: :p
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Trivial Psychic on December 25, 2005, 10:49:47 pm
You did a great job on the Serapis, so how about doing the Horus, complete with offset cockpit?
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Nico on December 26, 2005, 06:17:03 am
Pretty neat (the medusa) , I would just have made the black part of the pods bigger than the gery parts and not the other way around because, well, that's just how it is usually, on missile pods.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Carl on December 27, 2005, 06:16:33 am
You HTL guys are all so awesome.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: Solatar on January 01, 2006, 07:57:59 pm
Yep.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: pecenipicek on January 02, 2006, 08:31:28 am
awesome :D


one question, how do you turn the cockpit view on?
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: StratComm on January 02, 2006, 07:56:30 pm
Add "Show Ship" to the flags section of the ship entry in ships.tbl, either with a TBM or just by editing the master table.
Title: Re: The HTL bandwagon is getting crowded
Post by: pecenipicek on January 03, 2006, 08:59:41 am
thankee