Author Topic: Delenda Est (spoiler!)  (Read 40608 times)

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Offline Kobrar44

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Retail is retail. There is little everything, bombs too. FSO has too have mods in mind as well, but I think it will be discussed by SCP members and they will decide whether this is worth the effort or not. We've got the cause of DE difficulty, so let's just leave this to professionals.
Oh guys, use that [ url ][ img ][ /img ][ /url ] :/

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Finally got round to finishing WiH today, and no issues with this on easy. (i know easy, head held in shame)

edit
fs2_open_3_6_14_RC6.exe and a download from about a month ago
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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Finally got round to finishing WiH today, and no issues with this on easy. (i know easy, head held in shame)

edit
fs2_open_3_6_14_RC6.exe and a download from about a month ago

To be honest, when I actually beat this mission with this release, I actually couldn't beat in on easy and finally beat it on hard... no idea why  :confused:

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I dont know if it was fixed in BP but retail had a quirk in the difficulty scaling where friendly AI weaponry (i think) degraded in performance with lower difficulties, the difference was that the player got a massive boost on easier settings so there are missions in the retail campaign where it is easier to keep a friendly ships alive on higher difficulties because they were hitting harder in relation to the opposition
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Offline qwadtep

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I don't think the difficulty setting really matters much in Delenda Est since it's overwhelmingly bomber intercept and turret sniping, neither of which involve a lot of incoming fire. It's much different in, say, Aristeia.

 

Offline Medve

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Apologies for the slight thread necro, but I thought there's a chance my input could help. I read back on the posts, and it mentioned friendly fire, self hits and the Leviathan of death. I can confirm the latter one, if needed I'll upload some pics of a continuous stream of missiles from the closest leviathans missile launcher (forgot its name). At first I thought I messed up, then after a lot of unsuccessful attempts I started debugging it as much as I could. I knew the beams weren't a problem, as frigate health was dropping without any beams online. The friendly/self damage was my next guess. I watched the monitor and the nice, yellow trailed torpedoes but none of them hit any of the frigates. Took me like 3 more desperate tries after that to find the azure trailed missiles hitting the frigs, which was coming from the leviathan. The hits were in sync with the crazy HP drops, so I said problem solved. After paveway-ing its launcher, it was all good.

 

Offline Cyborg17

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I think they tracked down the source of the bug.

 

Offline Kolgena

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
What? Since when did we figure out what the bug was? I thought it was still up in the air.

@Medve: Could you post more details about how you tested the fusion mortar damage? We had someone run isolated tests which showed fusion mortars to do their expected damage.

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I'm fairly sure the problem is this combined with a Karuna model that had an incorrect radius value (twice as large as it should have been) - The E posted a fixed model in the thread back a few pages.
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Offline Black_Yoshi1230

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Finished the game on RC5, I don't know what I did that made the mission unplayable for the first half in RC6 on Very Easy.

What I have to say (after overcoming many crashes, technical difficulties, and drinking an unhealthy amount of soda to get over it):

On RC6, on the first few waves of bombers, each Cyclops dealt about 4% damage, making the Indus die on the Leander's joust. RC5 was about 1 to 2%.

Also, when I had to disarm the Iolanthe and Denaira, I sent Beta 1 and 2 to disarm the latter's forward beam cannons (had to use the External targeting view so I knew what to assign them for). Seeing how they had plot immunity, I sent them by the second wave (I swapped their Darts for Paveways, putting the pressure off the first strike package's escort, which was the rest of us). Made the whole disarming debacle a lot easier, after a series of hitting "C-1-1/2-4."

Now that's what I call working my ass off for an ending. Much more so when I was crazy enough to play stock FS2 via War in Heaven (made Bearbeating a metric crackton easier, but somehow the Shivans got a little bit too intelligent, plus Xinny and Zero somehow died in the 15-minute SOC mission).
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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Were Xinny and Zero invincible during the SOC op in retail FS2? I seem to remember seeing them get killed, I thought it was only snipes who had plot armor in that mission.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
From the wiki.
Quote
All your wingmen become invulnerable after taking a certain amount of damage. The same does not apply to you, however.
When in doubt, always consult the wiki.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

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bigchunk1: ...

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I've done some testing with the Karuna linked by The E, in Collateral Damage (it's faster to test with than Delenda Est :)) it seems to have made a fairly big difference, the Akula took ~9k self Apocalypse damage with the new model, and ~28k with the old model.

Man, no wonder the UEF is losing so badly. They do more to kill their own ships than the Tevs.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 11:27:38 pm by SaltyWaffles »
Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Nah - it's the SCP who are secretly supporting the GTVA  :nervous:
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Offline BritishShivans

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Either that, or given how there seems to be some strange bugs with some GTVA ships as well, the SCP has hijacked by Carl and this is only the beginning.

Soon... Shivan Juggernauts that have insane inertia! Watch as the Colossus gets rammed by a gigantic space flea traveling at 640m/s!

 

Offline Crybertrance

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Soon... Shivan Juggernauts that have insane inertia! Watch as the Colossus gets rammed by a gigantic space flea traveling at 640m/s!

Make it 800m/s and I'd pay to see that...

just joking
<21:08:30>   Hartzaden fires a slammer at Cybertrance
<21:09:13>   Crybertrance pops flares, but wonders how Hartzaden acquired aspect lock on a stealth fighter... :\
<21:11:58>   *** The_E joined #bp [email protected]
21:11:58   +++ ChanServ has given op to The_E
<21:12:58>   Hartzaden continues to paint crybertrance and feeding the info to a wing of gunships
<21:14:07>   Crybertrance sends emergency "IM GETING MY ASS KICKED HERE!!!!eleventy NEED HELPZZZZ" to 3rd fleet command
<21:14:50>   Hartzaden jamms the transmission.
<21:14:51>   The_E explodes the sun

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Soon... Shivan Juggernauts that have insane inertia! Watch as the Colossus gets rammed by a gigantic space flea traveling at 640m/s!

Make it 800m/s and I'd pay to see that...

just joking

When I get the time to try/figure it out, I'll let you know what it looks like (assuming the game doesn't just crash horrifically on impact). Imagine that--the Sathanas' inertia ramming the Colossus is so destructive that it breaks reality (or the game's reality, so to speak).


EDIT: Also, I'm a little sad at how this otherwise-incredible mission was turned into the most frustrating, annoying, rage-inducing gaming experience in recent memory. It was a combination of many factors, but in hindsight, I now realize that it was a combination of both the "uber-bombers" and the Karuna self-damage that made all of my attempts to do things well enough to beat the mission pointless.

To be honest, my experience with this mission was so bad it's almost like Murphey pulled every trick in the book, including invoking the berserk button for my second-most rage-inducing gameplay experience in recent memory (FS2's and AoA's "Helios bomb the Sathanas' turrets in 2 minutes" missions).

I was playing on Easy difficulty, and I'd attempted the mission at least 50 times, never getting as far as the Hanuman's obliteration. I just gave up and used cheats to just kill everything when required by the objectives, but that didn't work either--because the Karunas would kill themselves. Then, I made all of the Karunas--and myself, because at this point I was just DONE, and wanted to finally f****ing finish this mission--invincible, cheat-killed everything in-sequence, FINALLY got to the part where the Imperieuse shows up, watched with utter glee and spite as all the UEF ships got obliterated one-by-one, and then I go to cover the Indus' retreat, and then....

...then I got obliterated by one of the main beam cannons of the Imperiouse. No, really. That should not have even been possible for a number of reasons, but hell, I'll list them:
1) I wasn't directly in-between the Imperiouse and either the Indus or Yangtze.
2) The Imperiouse is not in range to even shoot at the Indus or Yangtze, for its own list of reasons.
3) I was not in the Imperiouse's line of fire with any of the doomed UEF ships.
4) I was, through cheats, invulnerable.
5) Capital ship beam cannons are flagged to only target/shoot at other capships, not craft or bombs.
6) I don't think I was even in range of the Imperiouse's beam cannons either.
7) I was, through cheats, invulnerable. (yes, I'm listing this twice)

So, by this point, I can't decide whether this is hilarious, utterly baffling, unfathomably frustrating/rage-inducing, or just spitefully insane. I quickly come to the conclusion that it is all of the above, to absurd levels, and so I am now out of ****s to give.

I turn on cheats, and kill everything. Then the Sathanas shows up. This part is solely hilarious, because it was an explicit throwback to a berserk button of mine within an even greater berserk button. I'm not sure what the dev team was aiming for the player to think/feel when the Sathanas shows up, but it probably wasn't gleeful, slightly cathartic rage at quickly annihilating the Sathanas with `Kx10--that particular feat was something I was very, very experienced in.

"Now seriously, go read a book"? I already had, that same day (not the entire book, obviously). So my course of action was a little bit different.

I did one final attempt at the mission. I used cheats immediately, carefully, and methodically. I stayed the hell away from the Imperiouse and beam cannons in general, made all allied ships invincible until the Imperiouse showed up, and killed everything in sequence.

At this point, I'm waaaaay beyond empathy for any of the characters in the game (in the moment), and I'm taking mild satisfaction from the Diablos Ex Machina that dooms the Yangtze without any warning/precedent--or at least that's what I perceived it as at the time. I was practically rooting for the GTVA at this point, because the UEF's elite strike force of four frigates, two heavy cruisers, twelve Uriel gunships, and an AWACS would--without fail--get utterly decimated by a few bomber wings and a handful of older cruisers and corvettes piecemeal. It took trial-and-error refined, precise, and overkill-levels of cheats divine intervention to get anywhere near the Carthage, and only when I made it impossible for the Karunas to kill themselves with their own weapons, at that.

And when the Indus ended up where it did, in the state it did...I was just cracking up. It wasn't until Simms' letter that I stopped feeling like the Joker ("it's hilarious to just watch the world burn") and started caring about the characters again. For the most part. I was definitely not in the right state of mind to appreciate it then. I do now, for sure, but back then...

In hindsight, it was pretty much the polar opposite of ME3's end-game. A fantastic end-game, story climax, twist, and ending (temporarily) ruined by an absurdly unlikely combination of factors outside of the control of either party, coincidentally putting me in the worst possible state of mind for the ending (and the crazy, mission-breaking bugs were found, acknowledged, and addressed with impressive skill and tenacity). As opposed to ME3's, you know, terrible-in-almost-every-way end-game, unbelievably anticlimactic ending/end-game, dozens of nonsensical and self-contradictory plot twists from out of nowhere, and a series of utter disillusionment, betrayal, criminally false advertising,, totally shameless cover-ups/PR BS, and of course the intellectual disrespect towards the fans, with regards to BioWare.

Now, I can look back at DE and the ending and really appreciate it for its awesomeness, while I can't look back at ME3, BioWare, or at times the ME-series in general without disgust and disappointment.

I apologize if these ramblings are off-topic or irrelevant; I hope they helped or were amusing in some way. Now I can feel very much at ease with regards to this mission, thanks to the awesome work/troubleshooting of the dev team and players alike.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 04:19:04 am by SaltyWaffles »
Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
It sounds like the Imperious finally decided to take charge without justification.  ;)

But seriously now, I think the problem is that the devs might have removed the difficulty damage scaling? Seems the most logical answer about the damage scales.

 

Offline -Norbert-

  • 211
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
There is one thing (or two, depending on point of view :P) from your list that I can explain.
During the in-game cutscene, where the Imperieuse jumps in, the invulnerbility is deactivated (same for Mr. Snuggles jumping in). Wether this is FREDded or a "side effect" of ingame cutscenes, I do not know.

 
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
afaik, that's because the player is invulnerable during cutscenes to not get roflstomped while stationary and unable to react in any way.