Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: TrashMan on October 18, 2011, 03:27:24 am
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There was zero continuity, it was basically a reboot
For better or worse though C2 did end up with a much better-written story on the dialogue level -- I'm not sure the plot was any better but it certainly wasn't any worse. (I'm not arguing with you about this though since we both know that's pointless)
Indeed. Your'e probably right in the reboot thing. It made no sense.
C1 ended with aliens taking out 2 entire fleets, creting a giant ice bubble over an isnald and aliens sqiddy things spreading all over. Also, the nano-suit functioned completely differently in it's basic cincept.
C2 throws that in the gutter. Doing a totally unbelievable "coverup", changing the aliens, changing the suit, chaning...everything.
Better on a dialogue-written level? Don't see how. I don't see it as any better or worse there.
Now, speaking on ME2 and 3.
ME2 was dissapointing for me (in the story department). It was a fun game, but it had too much flaws for me to consider it better than ME1.
ME3...wel..I'm waiting too see the extent of the damage the story/plot/setting will suffer.
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Expecting Bioware to have good stories is like expecting Obsidian to ship a bug-free game. Abandon all hope of a satisfying or surprising macroplot and just go in for the character moments and 80s action movie feel.
I mean **** Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite games and I will not for a moment pretend that anything about its overall plot mattered in any way to the ME setting or did anything to advance the story. It was just a fun atmosphere and character piece.
It's a strange situation when BioWare has both the best and worst writing of any game company. Maybe the problem is that they have character writers writing over-arching plots, and artists defining certain plot elements. I think we can all agree that the undeniably worst thing about ME2 was the ridiculous final boss sequence. Up until then there wasn't much advancing the Mass Effect universe storyline, but at least it was entertaining.
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Expecting Bioware to have good stories is like expecting Obsidian to ship a bug-free game. Abandon all hope of a satisfying or surprising macroplot and just go in for the character moments and 80s action movie feel.
I mean **** Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite games and I will not for a moment pretend that anything about its overall plot mattered in any way to the ME setting or did anything to advance the story. It was just a fun atmosphere and character piece.
Agreed for the most part, although I'd contend that ME1 and DA1 both had pretty good stories. The writers just screwed the pooch when it came to the overarching plots of both sequels.
Either that, or they were writing entire games worth of positioning and setup, which I still count as screwing the pooch.
I think we can all agree that the undeniably worst thing about ME2 was the ridiculous final boss sequence.
The blatant and nonsensical railroading implemented to get the player's party off the Normandy when the Reaper IFF is installed (something dangerous might happen, so we should get rid of everyone capable of protecting the ship from danger!) is certainly a contender, but yeah.
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I generally assumed the whole Collector issue could have been solved by parking a Dreadnought on the Omega Relay and waiting for them to stick their noses out.
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I generally assumed the whole Collector issue could have been solved by parking a Dreadnought on the Omega Relay and waiting for them to stick their noses out.
Sadly, all the politicians who could authorize the deployment of a dreadnought are evil, stupid, or both. Or something like that.
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I generally assumed the whole Collector issue could have been solved by parking a Dreadnought on the Omega Relay and waiting for them to stick their noses out.
Why waste a dreadnought when an asteroid would suffice perfectly well?*
This actually reminds me of a wonderful way to troll commercial traffic in I-War 2: Edge of Chaos. Park something big in front of Lagrange point, wait for a cargo container transport to come through and splatter the containers everywhere, then pick up the pieces...
*Assuming that mass relays don't have sophisticated collision prevention mechanisms.
Sadly, all the politicians who could authorize the deployment of a dreadnought are evil, stupid, or both. Or something like that.
Ah yes, the Collectors. Indoctrinated remnant of the Prothean species allegedly harvesting human colonies into the Galactic Centre.
We have dismissed that claim.
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I generally assumed the whole Collector issue could have been solved by parking a Dreadnought on the Omega Relay and waiting for them to stick their noses out.
Why waste a dreadnought when an asteroid would suffice perfectly well?*
This actually reminds me of a wonderful way to troll commercial traffic in I-War 2: Edge of Chaos. Park something big in front of Lagrange point, wait for a cargo container transport to come through and splatter the containers everywhere, then pick up the pieces...
*Assuming that mass relays don't have sophisticated collision prevention mechanisms.
I read about 2/3rds of the way through before I realized you wanted to use the asteroid as a navigational hazard rather then in an "Arrival" fashion. I was slightly horrified you would destroy as awesome a hub world as Omega Station :P
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You'd need more than one asteroid. Joker makes it pretty clear the plus-minus on arrival from a relay is in the tens of thousands of KM normally in the first game.
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I'm slightly fuming that Bioware took all the good ideas! I'm stuck with a story that everybody heard of! Well, maybe playing the games will help me. . . . ;)
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I think we can all agree that the undeniably worst thing about ME2 was the ridiculous final boss sequence.
The blatant and nonsensical railroading implemented to get the player's party off the Normandy when the Reaper IFF is installed (something dangerous might happen, so we should get rid of everyone capable of protecting the ship from danger!) is certainly a contender, but yeah.
You are forgetting Shepards death and the Lazarus project.
Or the Collector ship (idiot balls galore)
Or a whole slew of toher unanswered questions (where did Morodin get the bug? Why are guardian lasers not lasers? Why aren't they used agaisnt he occulus? Why do they go trouhg Omega 4 blind?)
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Expecting Bioware to have good stories is like expecting Obsidian to ship a bug-free game. Abandon all hope of a satisfying or surprising macroplot and just go in for the character moments and 80s action movie feel.
I mean **** Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite games and I will not for a moment pretend that anything about its overall plot mattered in any way to the ME setting or did anything to advance the story. It was just a fun atmosphere and character piece.
It's a strange situation when BioWare has both the best and worst writing of any game company. Maybe the problem is that they have character writers writing over-arching plots, and artists defining certain plot elements. I think we can all agree that the undeniably worst thing about ME2 was the ridiculous final boss sequence. Up until then there wasn't much advancing the Mass Effect universe storyline, but at least it was entertaining.
Well another issue is EA demanding quick turn arounds on games coupled with splitting into multiple projects at once. So the B team is given Dragon Age 2 on a short time table and... well the result is obvious.
Obsidian has been generally given a bad rap when it comes to bugs, New Vegas being a prime example where they fixed plenty of issues but still got docked for bugs tied to Bethesda's engine work.
Troika's games on the other hand did have some nasty bugs.
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You are forgetting Shepards death and the Lazarus project.
Or the Collector ship (idiot balls galore)
Or a whole slew of toher unanswered questions (where did Morodin get the bug? Why are guardian lasers not lasers? Why aren't they used agaisnt he occulus? Why do they go trouhg Omega 4 blind?)
1) sounds like personal preference. Would you have preferred Shepherd be all of a sudden "hurr durr I'mma work with Cerberus now" out of the blue? Didn't think so.
2) explain please.
3) You get him one on the planet you meet your former squadmate on. I thought that was pretty bleeding obvious. Guardian lasers aren't lasers for the same reason ML-16 lasers aren't lasers; because the word laser sounds cool. Do you think you could hit a target that small that is maneuvering that wildly while you're moving that fast through debris field as tightly clumped as that? If yes, you left reality a few parsecs back.
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I think we can all agree that the undeniably worst thing about ME2 was the ridiculous final boss sequence.
Yes, the enlarged Cyberdine Systems model 101 didn't seem to quite "click" in the ME universe.. I kept expecting it to ask any of my female NPC companions whether or not they were Sarah Connor.
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You are forgetting Shepards death and the Lazarus project.
Or the Collector ship (idiot balls galore)
Or a whole slew of toher unanswered questions (where did Morodin get the bug? Why are guardian lasers not lasers? Why aren't they used agaisnt he occulus? Why do they go trough Omega 4 blind?)
1) sounds like personal preference. Would you have preferred Shepherd be all of a sudden "hurr durr I'mma work with Cerberus now" out of the blue? Didn't think so.
Nah, it's simply horribly done. Sheps death as a plot device is compeltely under-used. It has NO impact on the story. Shep's like "I was dead. No I'm alive? Cool." and forgets about it. It goes nowhere.
Frankly I tihnk it's nothing mroe than a cheap marketing stunt (the KIA trailer).
Either way, if they wanted to keep Shep out of action for a while and explain why he works for TIM, they cfould have done it in a bajjilion better ways.
Have Shep in a coma (and not broken, dead and rotting on a planet for a month before being MAGICLY revived). OR have Cerberus retrive Sheps body and put it in stasis minutes after the fall.
Or friggin use Sheps death in the story. It make more sense for your former allies to not believe you are still alive (thinking you an impostor), so you don't get support from the council and that's why you go to Cerberus. Not this "Yo Shep. I heard yo was wroking for Cerbereus, so we all hates you now!"
2) explain please.
Worst trap and worst data retrieval in history.
The collectors decide to let Shep go that deep into the ship - in a room with plenty of cover. They let him reach one of the main terminals. They didn't block his path back or destroy his shuttle. And the best thing they can think of to spring a trap is to send a bunch of guys with guns. They didn't evne bring enough guys (tehy should have a massive numerical advantage)
Shep, the idiot that he is, takes no precautions. The Collector ship is powered down? How about making sure it STAYS down before you board it. Cripple it's engine and main gun while it's helpless.
Do I really need to go on?
3) You get him one on the planet you meet your former squadmate on. I thought that was pretty bleeding obvious. Guardian lasers aren't lasers for the same reason ML-16 lasers aren't lasers; because the word laser sounds cool. Do you think you could hit a target that small that is maneuvering that wildly while you're moving that fast through debris field as tightly clumped as that? If yes, you left reality a few parsecs back.
No. You get to the colony AFTER Morodin creates a couintermeasure (from a captured bug).
Aparently, Collectors left no traces of their presence before. So where does the bug come from?
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"why aren't lasers lasers"?
Have these people ever played this game called "Freespace 2"? :P
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Sheps death as a plot device is compeltely under-used.
I admit I would have really liked for this to have been utilized more. Personally, I always thought that there should have been some kind of mental/emotional impact on Shepard from all the trials and travails s/he has dealt with over the course of the two games. Between being brutally killed and resurrected, not to mention caring the burden of what's in store and having the Cypher rolling around in her or his head I'm surprised they don't go up to their cabin roll up into a ball and rock back in forth for hours.
Granted Shep is supposed to be the gamer avatar, but I would expect there to be some personal consequences to what s/he has experienced along the way. In my opinion it would have enriched the character more.
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No. You get to the colony AFTER Morodin creates a couintermeasure (from a captured bug).
Aparently, Collectors left no traces of their presence before. So where does the bug come from?
Ah, my mistake. Next most likely scenario is he gets one from Veetor. They sure left traces there, or there'd be very little game after that.
The Collector ship idiot balls can be best explained as "We don't want to be colossal assholes to the player. Let's give them a chance to actually beat this mission, hmm?"
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I admit I would have really liked for this to have been utilized more. Personally, I always thought that there should have been some kind of mental/emotional impact on Shepard from all the trials and travails s/he has dealt with over the course of the two games. Between being brutally killed and resurrected, not to mention caring the burden of what's in store and having the Cypher rolling around in her or his head I'm surprised they don't go up to their cabin roll up into a ball and rock back in forth for hours.
Apparently they were going for a more war-weary approach to the voice acting in ME3 but test audiences hated it (**** YOU TEST AUDIENCES)
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Between being brutally killed and resurrected
Death by decompression is apparently quite quick and more or less painless, actually, so Shep's short on grand traumas. Similarly it's not like you were conscious while they put you back together, so the resurrection bit doesn't have much traumatic experience either.
All in all what Shep actually experienced probably wasn't that different from fainting in terror and waking up.
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Between being brutally killed and resurrected
Death by decompression is apparently quite quick and more or less painless, actually, so Shep's short on grand traumas. Similarly it's not like you were conscious while they put you back together, so the resurrection bit doesn't have much traumatic experience either.
All in all what Shep actually experienced probably wasn't that different from fainting in terror and waking up.
Getting bounced around an exploding Normandy and most likely breaking a bunch of bones followed by suffocating from a slow leak doesn't exactly rank high on my ways to go. She certainly seemed to be freaking the hell out in the cutscene :P
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Shepard never breaks bones for anythings else exploding, so I doubt banging around in the Normandy did anything, especially through armor.
Regardless, that freaking out faded pretty quickly (probably into unconsciousness), and I doubt s/he remembers anything past shoving Liara/Ashley into the pod.
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Getting bounced around an exploding Normandy and most likely breaking a bunch of bones followed by suffocating from a slow leak doesn't exactly rank high on my ways to go. She certainly seemed to be freaking the hell out in the cutscene :P
Decompression takes a very short period to knock you out. Shep actually stopped moving within it in the custcene (nice touch Bioware). At best Shep had ten or fifteen seconds from vaccum exposure to unconsciousness. Not long at all.
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Shep was traumatized forever by the heartbreaking loss of Navigator Pressley
fake edit: and the sweet onboard jogging music
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Shep was traumatized forever by the heartbreaking loss of Navigator Pressley
fake edit: and the sweet onboard jogging music
It was made worse by the fact he couldn't play Virmire Ride on his stereo anymore.
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I see smudboy's poison reached HLP... :)
GB and NG for the rescue though ;)
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What's a smudboy
e: If it's someone who said that ME2 had a ****ty main story they're completely right, it's just that everything else about the game is great
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e: If it's someone who said that ME2 had a ****ty main story they're completely right, it's just that everything else about the game is great
This.
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No. You get to the colony AFTER Morodin creates a couintermeasure (from a captured bug).
Aparently, Collectors left no traces of their presence before. So where does the bug come from?
Ah, my mistake. Next most likely scenario is he gets one from Veetor. They sure left traces there, or there'd be very little game after that.
Eh? :wtf: Veetor was on the colony with the bugs. You get to Veeter BECAUSE you already have a countermeasure researched. You get that bug as soon as your recruit Moridin. From where? No one knows.
The Collector ship idiot balls can be best explained as "We don't want to be colossal assholes to the player. Let's give them a chance to actually beat this mission, hmm?"
They could have handled it better. A LOT better. They could have made both Shep and the Collectors act far more competent.
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I admit I would have really liked for this to have been utilized more. Personally, I always thought that there should have been some kind of mental/emotional impact on Shepard from all the trials and travails s/he has dealt with over the course of the two games. Between being brutally killed and resurrected, not to mention caring the burden of what's in store and having the Cypher rolling around in her or his head I'm surprised they don't go up to their cabin roll up into a ball and rock back in forth for hours.
Apparently they were going for a more war-weary approach to the voice acting in ME3 but test audiences hated it (**** YOU TEST AUDIENCES)
You know what scene I liked from ME1? When the Councill waves you off after all you've done and locks down Normandy. And Shep is there raging on the normandy, hitting hte locker in frustration and slumping to the ground, before the LI comes over to comfort him/her.
One of the best scenes.
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Eh? :wtf: Veetor was on the colony with the bugs. You get to Veeter BECAUSE you already have a countermeasure researched. You get that bug as soon as your recruit Moridin. From where? No one knows.
Actually, Veetor was in the first mission on the colony where the Collectors had already left; what you fought were the security bots he hacked and you didn't have the countermeasure yet.
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Ahhyes..I remeber. However, Collectors leave without a trace (despite that giant ship landing crater..).
Where did that bug come from?
You can assume Veetor gave it to you, but where does veetor get it? He's been locked inside that room and too scared to go outside.
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Just because you don't see anyone collecting the bug, doesn't mean it didn't happen. A lack of plot exposure =/= plot hole.
(Note: If you don't know "what" smudboy means, you are a lucky bastard, forget that name and leave it at that)
About the ME2 main plot story, yeah, could have been better, but I think it has a far worse rap than what it deserves. It's more the case that it is less polished than the rest of the game, so it shows. It still has a lot better story than most FPS / RPGs out there.
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It goes againt "Collectors hit colnies without elaving a trace". That bug is a big friggin trace.
Also, smudboy is a hero of the internet. ;7
EDIT: To those that do not know, smudboy is a former BSN forumite who made several analysis videos of ME2's plot, exposing everything that's worng with it. As you can imagine, fanboys were literaly demanding his death, leading to a massive flame war.
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Smudboy's "analysis" are the worst piece of **** I've ever witnessed in youtube. When I first clicked on the link and given the initial presentation I was expecting something akin to Plinkett's trashing, which would have been awesome. Alas, it's like the opposite. And the worst part is having to deal with those who blame "fandomness" on trashing an otherwise humourless pretensious idiot.
Trash, the thing is, most of his "exposures" were wrong. And he could have done it right, there was no lack of bad things to badmouth ME2 for.
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It's important that we get mad about this
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Smudboy's "analysis" are the worst piece of **** I've ever witnessed in youtube. When I first clicked on the link and given the initial presentation I was expecting something akin to Plinkett's trashing, which would have been awesome. Alas, it's like the opposite. And the worst part is having to deal with those who blame "fandomness" on trashing an otherwise humourless pretensious idiot.
Trash, the thing is, most of his "exposures" were wrong. And he could have done it right, there was no lack of bad things to badmouth ME2 for.
Tell yourself that as you're crying yourself to sleep.
His remarks are spot one. While he does tend to go off a tangent and nitpick way too much, his core observations are correct.
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It's important that we get mad about this
That's a wasted effort, I don't think the benefits of controlled anger carry over properly to an internet debate like they do in hand to hand.
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It goes againt "Collectors hit colnies without elaving a trace". That bug is a big friggin trace.
They also left behind visual identification of themselves on that planet. That's a friggin trace. So much for that.
You're getting hung up on one of the most minor and easily explained plot-holes (that doesn't even have to be a plot hole) imaginable.
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It's important that we get mad about this
....Madness?
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Smudboy's "analysis" are the worst piece of **** I've ever witnessed in youtube. When I first clicked on the link and given the initial presentation I was expecting something akin to Plinkett's trashing, which would have been awesome. Alas, it's like the opposite. And the worst part is having to deal with those who blame "fandomness" on trashing an otherwise humourless pretensious idiot.
Trash, the thing is, most of his "exposures" were wrong. And he could have done it right, there was no lack of bad things to badmouth ME2 for.
Tell yourself that as you're crying yourself to sleep.
His remarks are spot one. While he does tend to go off a tangent and nitpick way too much, his core observations are correct.
Check squee's replies. Much more humourous and actually correct. Some details smud got it right. Most of his gibberish is wrong, and anyone who disagrees with me will be cast into everlasting fire.
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Squee? HA!
I seen his replies. Squee is die-hard fanboy and his videos were full of veiled insults.
Smudboy is right. You are wrong. It's as simple as that.
ME2 main story is horribly written. What saves it are the companions and their side-missions and good execution.
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Bald assertion does not inspire confidence in your factuality.
And bald assertion on an inherently subjective subject makes you look like an uninformed asshat.
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Smudboy is right. You are wrong. It's as simple as that.
I detect massive fanboyism.
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Bald assertion does not inspire confidence in your factuality.
And bald assertion on an inherently subjective subject makes you look like an uninformed asshat.
Quality of writing is not really that subjective. There a thing called literary theory...and effective use of tropes..and avoiding idiot balls, plot holes and ass-pulls.
You confidence is irrelevant.
I detect massive fanboyism.
I'm not a fanboy of anyone or anything. I detest blinded fanboys of any kind.
Weather squee, smudboy, ME2 or Bioware - I follow none.
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Quality of writing is not really that subjective.
Clearly this is why I hate Hemmingway when he's required reading in English courses. Oh wait.
Worse yet, you are arguing the subjective qualities of something analyzing subjective qualities. A review (and I use the term loosely) is itself of subjective quality while examining something of subjective quality. To pronounce the subjectives of a subjective as truth is an abomination against all that is clear and logical on a scale I doubted even you were capable of.
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I have no idea what you just said. Your subjective ramblings are no concern of mine. I care not what you think. I care what is.
Plot holes are bad. Idiot balls are bad. Ass-pulls are bad. Misused tropes are bad. This is non-debatable.
If you honestly believe that just because you like the plot(or game in this case) , it is excellently written, then you're committing a fallacy that makes everything I've done and will do look like nothing.
ME2 is a good game.
ME2 writing is bad.
These are facst, regardless how some fanboys desperately dispute them.
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Simmer down please guys... lets keep this on topic and away from arguing.
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Plot holes are bad. Idiot balls are bad. Ass-pulls are bad. Misused tropes are bad. This is non-debatable.
Define these in such a way that everyone can agree. Then apply these definitions to the game in such a way that everyone can agree.
Then, perhaps, you have an argument. Until then, you are simply spewing garbage unto the void.
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Everyone agreeing is not necessary. Everyone does not even agree on scientific, provable truths.
Regardless, there is no point in debating this with you. There is nothing to debate, because the truth is allready known.
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I don't need to know bout evolution to know its wrong :P
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what is even happening in this thread
Everyone agreeing is not necessary. Everyone does not even agree on scientific, provable truths.
Regardless, there is no point in debating this with you. There is nothing to debate, because the truth is allready known.
if you don't want to have discussions why are you posting on a forum
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(http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/www.ign.com/17096/2011/03/Mass_effect_smile-255x300.jpg)
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Nice job on the split, but still this is a pretty silly topic you guys are discussing here :ick:
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I admit I would have really liked for this to have been utilized more. Personally, I always thought that there should have been some kind of mental/emotional impact on Shepard from all the trials and travails s/he has dealt with over the course of the two games. Between being brutally killed and resurrected, not to mention caring the burden of what's in store and having the Cypher rolling around in her or his head I'm surprised they don't go up to their cabin roll up into a ball and rock back in forth for hours.
Apparently they were going for a more war-weary approach to the voice acting in ME3 but test audiences hated it (**** YOU TEST AUDIENCES)
You know what scene I liked from ME1? When the Councill waves you off after all you've done and locks down Normandy. And Shep is there raging on the normandy, hitting hte locker in frustration and slumping to the ground, before the LI comes over to comfort him/her.
One of the best scenes.
Kinda like the end of Lair of the Shadow Broker. Shep actually shows some vulnerability and humanity, it's a massive improvement over what basically amounts to being RoboCop with snarky one-liners (some of which I do admit made me laugh, like the Dantius towers mercenary renegade interrupt). LotSB was a fantastic DLC almost entirely because of that end scene, or at least it was for me.
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Wishes to remind
TrashMan a certain someone that HLP has a rather handy Spell Checker that helps stop abuse of the english langauge. :doubt:
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Wishes to remind TrashMan a certain someone that HLP has a rather handy Spell Checker that helps stop abuse of the english langauge. :doubt:
:p (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law)
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That was done for effect.
Yes....effect :nervous:
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Nice job on the split, but still this is a pretty silly topic you guys are discussing here :ick:
Also, what the hell Thunder? You first name change was ridiculous enough :P
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Worse yet, you are arguing the subjective qualities of something analyzing subjective qualities. A review (and I use the term loosely) is itself of subjective quality while examining something of subjective quality. To pronounce the subjectives of a subjective as truth is an abomination against all that is clear and logical on a scale I doubted even you were capable of.
Please, please spare yourself from seeing smudboy's videos. His arrogance to what he calls an "objective analysis" of the plot will make you crawl up the walls.
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Nice job on the split, but still this is a pretty silly topic you guys are discussing here :ick:
Also, what the hell Thunder? You first name change was ridiculous enough :P
I was wondering when someone would call me on it - I wanted Phineus (after Phineus Taylor Barnum) but that has been taken so many places so I went with this instead. Kalfireth was getting a little too... DnD-y :p
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there was no lack of bad things to badmouth ME2 for.
now that that's settled :p
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Nice job on the split, but still this is a pretty silly topic you guys are discussing here :ick:
Also, what the hell Thunder? You first name change was ridiculous enough :P
I was wondering when someone would call me on it - I wanted Phineus (after Phineus Taylor Barnum) but that has been taken so many places so I went with this instead. Kalfireth was getting a little too... DnD-y :p
Well, it kinda fits you as the DM of an unruly set of players :P
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there was no lack of bad things to badmouth ME2 for.
now that that's settled :p
It's like saying that Scarlett Johanson has flaws. You know it and you just couldn't care the **** less.
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If Scarlet Jonhanson was actually fugly beneath a ton of makup....maybe your comparison would be more apt then.
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Yeah Mass Effect is really one of the worst games ever, it just happens to have good looks.
Oh wait.
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It's like saying that Scarlett Johanson has flaws. You know it and you just couldn't care the **** less.
Actually, I do care because Mass Effect 2 had quite a lot of flaws, and not very minor ones either. Stop fanboying.
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Yeah Mass Effect is really one of the worst games ever, it just happens to have good looks.
Oh wait.
Nice strawmen. I never said ME2 is one of the worst games ever. I said it has very bad writing.
I guess you can't see the difference between the two.
Like all fanboys - anything negative about any part of the object of their obsession is taken as an act of war.
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I also never said that Johanson had a good conversation skill. Try to keep up will ya? At least make an effort.
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Then why the frack did you even bring up completely unrelated things?
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Ahah. I bring up an awesome analogy and you botched it completely. Now you blame it on me.
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I have an idea. Why don't I lock this cluster**** and give both of you warnings for trolling?