Author Topic: Im dropping my support of SCP  (Read 2357 times)

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Offline ShivanSpS

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Im dropping my support of SCP
Getting banned of the discord server just for having a disagreement with The_E, while not insulting or disrespecting any members is completely intolerant and discriminative. Not to mention that E called "idiots" to the people he belive are wrong.

The excuse is that he belives thats i attacked a social group, that im not going to mention here, when i never said anything good or wrong about that group, and he has no idea of what i wanted to say (i support that social group but i dont agree in certain things). When other user told me that that a touchy subject i say "ok ill drop it, but that reaction tells me that yuri was right".

So that was how i was banned for having disagreement with a mod, not sure if there was a language barrier there or what but thats it. So bad it had to end like this. Bye.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Im dropping my support of SCP
Getting banned of the discord server just for having a disagreement with The_E, while not insulting or disrespecting any members is completely intolerant and discriminative. Not to mention that E called "idiots" to the people he belive are wrong.

Small point of order: You were kicked, not banned. You can rejoin at any time.

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The excuse is that he belives thats i attacked a social group, that im not going to mention here, when i never said anything good or wrong about that group, and he has no idea of what i wanted to say (i support that social group but i dont agree in certain things). When other user told me that that a touchy subject i say "ok ill drop it, but that reaction tells me that yuri was right".

Please do tell the whole story.

You know, the one where you came in all "lol, look what Activision did because the libs were too triggered". Where you went on a lengthy posting spree where you insisted that Yuri Bezmenov, a former soviet journalist and KGB informant who defected to the US and who, in his writings and in interviews he gave in the US posited that social justice movements, movements fighting for equality and egalitarianism, were just stepping stones towards soviet-style repression was a true visionary who accurately describes current realities in the US and elsewhere. He further posited that modern pop culture was just a distraction, a vehicle that represents the erosion of culture and morals that would lead to the suppression of religion; In other words, he was providing soundbites for the american right and by providing a plausible link between these movements and interests hostile to the US, arguments to shun the people in those movements as anti-american.

(This, by the way, is what made me say that "idiots believe he's making a bulletproof case that movements that call for social justice are all basically soviet propaganda": It is pretty obvious to me that, in order to believe what he's saying is plausible, you'd have to be pretty damn oblivious or stupid)

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So that was how i was banned for having disagreement with a mod, not sure if there was a language barrier there or what but thats it. So bad it had to end like this. Bye.

Again: You are not banned. You are able to rejoin if you wish.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 01:56:22 pm by The E »
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline ShivanSpS

  • 210
Re: Im dropping my support of SCP
Please do tell the whole story.

You know, the one where you came in all "lol, look what Activision did because the libs were too triggered". Where you went on a lengthy posting spree where you insisted that Yuri Bezmenov, a former soviet journalist and KGB informant who defected to the US and who, in his writings and in interviews he gave in the US posited that social justice movements, movements fighting for equality and egalitarianism, were just stepping stones towards soviet-style repression was a true visionary who accurately describes current realities in the US and elsewhere. He further posited that modern pop culture was just a distraction, a vehicle that represents the erosion of culture and morals that would lead to the suppression of religion; In other words, he was providing soundbites for the american right and by providing a plausible link between these movements and interests hostile to the US, arguments to shun the people in those movements as anti-american.

(This, by the way, is what made me say that "idiots believe he's making a bulletproof case that movements that call for social justice are all basically soviet propaganda": It is pretty obvious to me that, in order to believe what he's saying is plausible, you'd have to be pretty damn oblivious or stupid)

First, i was making fun of Activision by giving-in to the external pressure by censuring their own trailer. I have no wish to make fun of leftists, because im living in a country that is being destroyed for over 50 years by them, i dont think they are something to laugh at.
When i said "i liked that activision did this" i meant that they included Yuri in the trailer.

Second, i had already dropped the subject yesterday, today i would have not said anything if not for your little "they are idiots", that is by far, worse than anything i said.

Third, what Yuri said was well over 35 years ago, there is no way it meant the current groups, you are making that conection and is wrong to asume that, what is important is the methods that he described that i think are being used today(by diferent groups not by the soviet union!!!). Silence dissident voices is one of them, you did just that, thats really not a good move when you are trying to prove someone else wrong. The example i wanted to give was very small and in not way a bad thing, but you did a lot better.

Fourth, i dont understand the point of kicking someone off the server whiout banning. And to be honest i only written this to give you one chance to apologize because i did nothing wrong, i did not attacked, insulted or disrespected anyone.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 05:44:26 pm by ShivanSpS »

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Im dropping my support of SCP
Fourth, i dont understand the point of kicking someone off the server whiout banning.

First, "kicking" is essentially a smack.  "Bad, don't do this".  It is a temporary sanction, not a permanent one.  It wouldn't hurt to do a little bit of internet research on this.

Second, HLP hosts a large number of members with a diverse array of opinions and perspectives.  Generally, mere disagreement or debate will not invite any disciplinary action.  Without knowing the details about the incident in question, my guess is that you crossed some sort of clear line.

Third, I'm not sure why you're associating this with SCP, given that this incident didn't take place in either the #scp channel or the SCP board, and The E is not the active SCP leader.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Im dropping my support of SCP
First, i was making fun of Activision by giving-in to the external pressure by censuring their own trailer. I have no wish to make fun of leftists, because im living in a country that is being destroyed for over 50 years by them, i dont think they are something to laugh at.
When i said "i liked that activision did this" i meant that they included Yuri in the trailer.

That was very clear. However, what should have been clear to you is that citing a figure like Bezmenov, whose work while in the US was based on portraying movements that called for more equality, for equal rights, as basically illegitimate and just thinly veiled attempts to undermine the US is somewhat questionable in the first place. The underlying assumption Bezmenov took was that the US in the 1980s was a fundamentally equal and fair society and that protests against racism, or a fight against the discrimination of LGBTQ people were at their core just propaganda; By citing him in a trailer for a video game slated to be released very soon, Activision implicitly positioned his speech there, and the ideas that come with it, as commentary on what is happening in the world today.

Now, the thing about what Bezmenov said is that he's incredibly wrong: His (and, assuming he was relaying true information, the soviet's) theory of cultural change was that the best way to achieve it was by slowly building pressures over decades until suddenly repression happens; if you can tell me how to distinguish movements like that that were actively instigated by a hostile agent from movements like that that just build consensus over time (i.e. the normal way in which our cultures develop), please do enlighten me.

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Second, i had already dropped the subject yesterday, today i would have not said anything if not for your little "they are idiots", that is by far, worse than anything i said.

Third, what Yuri said was well over 35 years ago, there is no way it meant the current groups, you are making that conection and is wrong to asume that, what is important is the methods that he described that i think are being used today(by diferent groups not by the soviet union!!!). Silence dissident voices is one of them, you did just that, thats really not a good move when you are trying to prove someone else wrong. The example i wanted to give was very small and in not way a bad thing, but you did a lot better.

Activision made that connection (the trailer implicitly connected protests against the Vietnam war with Bezmenov's talk about soviet propaganda; this is so on the nose that it's kinda hard to miss), not me.

Point being: Bezmenov was a propagandist who tried to deligitimize civil rights movements in the US. By posting this now, during a time when the civil rights discussion has flared up again in response to a US government that is veering ever harder into autocracy and tyranny, Activision (and, by your endorsement of Bezmenov and his theories in regards to modern movements, you) are engaging in an effort to dismiss criticism of the current state of affairs as misguided and wrong.
That is why you were kicked. Because you were trying to be flippant and dismissive about something that is far too serious. Because you seemingly did not do the homework on Bezmenov. Because you were seemingly ignorant about the online discourse surrounding that trailer, which features quite a number of far-right figures praising Activision for its brave stance in furthering fascism.

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Fourth, i dont understand the point of kicking someone off the server whiout banning. And to be honest i only written this to give you one chance to apologize because i did nothing wrong, i did not attacked, insulted or disrespected anyone.

Your original post was an announcement that you were leaving, not an invitation to a discussion.
Secondly, as I tried to point out in my posts in this thread, you actually were insulting groups and, by extension, their supporters by claiming that their causes were and are fundamentally illegitimate. I felt that was reason enough to give you a kick; you are, of course, free to disagree.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline ShivanSpS

  • 210
Re: Im dropping my support of SCP
Secondly, as I tried to point out in my posts in this thread, you actually were insulting groups and, by extension, their supporters by claiming that their causes were and are fundamentally illegitimate. I felt that was reason enough to give you a kick; you are, of course, free to disagree.

"you actually were insulting groups and, by extension, their supporters by claiming that their causes were and are fundamentally illegitimate." That only happened on your mind because you rushed to judge what i was about to say whiout me saying anything, not to mention you completely misunderstood my point about Yuri, thats why you think i was claiming those causes were illegitimate, when i was not trying to say that in any way shape or form, you jumped right on the defensive and already make out your mind about the subject whiout even listeting to me. Thats the point you did not understand in your reply and i wanted to make it perfectly clear, it is not my intencion to discuss it, i just wanted to make it clear.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 05:58:06 pm by ShivanSpS »

 

Offline The E

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Re: Im dropping my support of SCP
"you actually were insulting groups and, by extension, their supporters by claiming that their causes were and are fundamentally illegitimate." That only happened on your mind because you rushed to judge what i was about to say whiout me saying anything, not to mention you completely misunderstood my point about Yuri, thats why you think i was claiming those causes were illegitimate, when i was not trying to say that in any way shape or form, you jumped right on the defensive and already make out your mind about the subject whiout even listeting to me. Thats the point you did not understand in your reply and i wanted to make it perfectly clear, it is not my intencion to discuss it, i just wanted to make it clear.

The underlying problem here is that I am aware of the context in which Bezmenov made his statements and the context surrounding Activisions' decision to use them in an ad campaign now, and you either aren't or do not care. It's true, you did never actually say any of those things directly; however, if you are aware of the context, the messages are coming through loud and clear. Point being: When you dive into a topic like this, with all the "culture war" bs attached, you need to do your homework.

You started off that particular topic with these words:
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lol Activision cut the original COD trailer to half because it as triggering leftists

Your mistake here was, essentially, making an off-the-cuff remark that seemingly didn't take into account the relevant context and then doubling and tripling down on it. That's what got you kicked.

I harbor no ill will towards you. People sometimes say dumb things or inadvertently make statements that, to someone that doesn't share their immediate context, read as offensive; in those cases, giving people a gentle smack on the head seems appropriate. If you are still waiting for an apology from me: You're not getting one. I gave you an explanation for my reasons for kicking you; that is everything you will get from me on this topic. If you want to rejoin the discord, feel free to do so, but be aware that "lol leftists are triggered" is one of those phrases that will lead to heightened scrutiny of whatever you say afterwards.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns