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-Joshua-:

--- Quote from: jr2 on October 14, 2021, 09:51:43 pm ---No one cares if you spy on terrorists
--- End quote ---

Well there's your problem. You probably should really care about who your government considers terrorists.

jr2:

--- Quote from: -Joshua- on October 15, 2021, 01:07:03 pm ---
--- Quote from: jr2 on October 14, 2021, 09:51:43 pm ---No one cares if you spy on terrorists
--- End quote ---

Well there's your problem. You probably should really care about who your government considers terrorists.

--- End quote ---

*cough* No one cares if you spy on individuals or groups that resort to acts or threats of violence to achieve political ends.

-Joshua-:

--- Quote from: jr2 on October 16, 2021, 07:32:24 pm ---*cough* No one cares if you spy on individuals or groups that resort to acts or threats of violence to achieve political ends.
--- End quote ---

That's too broad: Your (and mine, and arguably everyone's) government uses the threat or acts of violence to achieve political ends. And since we live in democracies, those governments tend to be made up from political parties.

But for some reason I very much doubt that you would support the mass surveillance of the Republican party and all of its supporters, even though that's definitely a group that has resorted to acts or threats of violence to achieve political ends.

jr2:
I mean. Insurrection is a chargeable offense.  Feel free to look up how many 1/6 protesters & rioters, who have been widely condemned by the right, insofar as any that engaged in acts of violence beyond taking selfies inside the Capitol cordons after (stupidly) following those at the front that pushed their way in, are being charged with insurrection by the Biden DOJ.  While you're at it look up which Capitol bombers (yes the bomb went off) were pardoned by Clinton and where they are currently employed.

I suppose the term should be restricted further, how do you propose limiting it so the entire left & right aren't implicated, or are we better off labeling both as domestic threats?   And if you want more recent left leaning attacks look at the 2016 Election riots, the Kavanaugh insurrection, etc.   Oh wait. Maybe fringes exist on BOTH sides.  Which I hope is what your point was. 

Still don't know how to properly define an actual terrorist as opposed to an unruly rioter though.  Serious bodily harm directly threatened perhaps?

-Joshua-:
I was more thinking along the lines of the various invasions, bombings and the overthrowing of democratic governments and supporting fascist governments that we have seen the US government do in the past decades,  that sorta thing, rather then a bunch of riots. Massive military actions that are supported by the majority of the population that lead to far more civilian deaths then any attack on the US period. This is all "Comitting acts of deadly violence to achieve political goals", as is for that matter any police force. But yes, all the examples you provide would work too, and as such your own definition gives the US state a free cause to just spy on all its citizens.

Serious bodily harm directly threatened does get a bit sketchy too, considering how direct threats of bodily harm is a significant part of the "Law and Order" schtick. You can't have a discussion about how violent someone has to be before they get to be surveilled, you also need to look at why a government sanctions some forms of violence but not others.


Sidenote:

--- Quote ---Kavanaugh insurrection
--- End quote ---

The what now?

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