Hard Light Productions Forums

Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Aesaar on April 06, 2012, 12:16:20 am

Title: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Aesaar on April 06, 2012, 12:16:20 am
GTCv Diomedes
v1.12


Download v1.12 (http://www.mediafire.com/?ld1t1w48qel519w)

Diomedes v1.11 texture .psd files (http://www.mediafire.com/?afu7dxu0ows9hnn)

New description written by General Battuta:


   Conceptualized early in the Threat Exigency Initiative warship program, the Diomedes-class strike corvette was shaped by the necessities of two worlds: the tactical realities of the post-Capella battlefield and the political turmoil of a Fleet in crisis.

   GTVA designers conceived the Chimera and Bellerophon-class corvettes hand in hand with new doctrines of of massive force application. These designs were intentionally overspecialized to neutralize Shivan destroyers and juggernauts with beam alpha strikes. Strike craft support, aggressive subspace maneuvering, and sheer shock would, it was argued, allow the Chimera and Bellerophon to outrun their own design weaknesses.

   But more conservative factions of the GTVA military agitated for a less specialized next-generation design, a successor to and improvement upon the still-young Deimos corvette. Politically, they needed a warship that would fit the operational profile of line as well as elite units, but they also offered compelling tactical reasoning. Agile, aggressive combatants lacked the staying power for prolonged defensive operations at hardpoints, nodes, or convoys. A cheaper, more all-round design could supplement Deimos production with a powerful corvette leader or a supporting element to cover the flanks of destroyers or sister corvettes. Other camps in the Fleet added their own requirements: the addition of a fighterbay would open up possibilities as an SOC platform, or in the independent strike role through organic escorts or bombers. Missile launchers and magazines would allow for selectable munition loads.

   The notional Diomedes became a rallying point for design schools who had been pushed out of the main thrust of Threat Exigency Initiative work. The design went forward, but these competing requirements should have produced a catastrophic compromise.

   Instead, GTVA designers produced a fascinating warship, one whose weaknesses are addressed by carefully counterpointed strengths. Armed with four Bull Frost next-generation anti-warship beams in a pair of twinned lateral batteries, the Diomedes relies on its startling agility to bring its firepower to bear. Designed to engage targets abeam, the class rewards flanking tactics and circling engagements against larger hostiles and aggressive action against multiple lighter opponents. Considerable sacrifices were made to operationalize the ship's fighterbay, but the potency of an on-board interceptor or bomber unit justified the cost, particularly in the areas of point defense and counter-air.

   Even as the GTVA has cracked down on its own patronage system, dissolving the lines of influence that connected warship designers and commanders to particular schools, the Diomedes has acquired a reputation for scrappy flexibility and solitary pluck. Neglected by formal doctrine on the eve of the UEF-GTVA conflict except as a general 'flank escort' and 'fast response expedient', Diomedes captains drilled their own tactics and built a quiet professional community.

   The ongoing conflict has found the Diomedes thrown into the fire, often alone, often undersupported, acting on sketchy intelligence to provide decisive force at key moments. Casualties among the Diomedes class exceed that of any other next-generation warship, but GTVA commanders have taken note of the design's successes, and of the discipline and capability of her crews. Once seen as the ugly duckling of the TEI warship line, the Diomedes now finds itself in strategic and tactical demand.



Included is the two models, with and without drone dockpoints, and their textures.  The included table alters LOD distances, adds the three rear PD guns, and adds a new entry for the #drone version.  It is otherwise a drop-in replacement.  The second engine which caused issues is gone.

Note: The v1.0 model will not work with the 1.11 table, nor will the table included in v1.0 work with the 1.11 model, so delete v1.0 entirely.

Note 2: If you downloaded before 10-09-12, the drone version has 95000 health instead of the 85000 it should have.

Note 3: Fixed model released and texture .psd files released.



GTCv Chimera
v1.01


Download (Mediafire) (http://www.mediafire.com/?9mwnsi8d88byny8)

Unlike the Diomedes v1.0, this one is a drop-in replacement.  All the table does is adjust LOD distances and add the "fire down normals" flag to the STerPulse turrets.


GTF Draco
v0.9


Download (Mediafire) (http://www.mediafire.com/?wtfu91kc30538wa)

New description written by General Battuta and myself:

Analysis of defensive actions during the Second Incursion, such as the evacuation of Third Fleet Headquarters in Capella, revealed systemic failures in defensive fighter coverage. Multi-axis attack by lightly escorted Shivan bombers demanded rapid redeployment across kilometers of space, and in terms of pure linear speed, no Terran fighter design was up to the challenge. When the Threat Exigency Initiative was launched, one of the first demands of the GTVA admiralty was for a new dedicated fighter design in the pure intercept role, a tactical niche left empty since the retirement of the GTF Valkyrie in 2361. 

The result of a rare collaboration between Triton Dynamics and its longtime competitor Nankam Aeronautical, including subcontracts to Snapka-Flegel and Boone Thrusters, the Draco was accepted for combat evaluation trials a few weeks before the outbreak of the war in Sol, conducting peacekeeping and customs operations in the Terran periphery.  Its stunning speed and fast recharge drive capacitors quickly made it a pilot favorite.

Evaluation did not complete in time for the departure of the 14th Battlegroup, and GTVA Command further held back its deployment to the Sol theater for fear that it would be easy prey for UEF point defenses and the heavier Kentauroi.  While it remains a rare sight, these concerns were largely unfounded, and thanks to a doctrine of evasion and attack by pure speed, the Draco now enjoys one of the highest kill/casualty ratios of any Alliance strikecraft in the conflict. Although its light weapons suite - designed to engage Shivan bombers and intercept warheads - leaves it arguably undergunned when attacking heavier UEF strike craft, the Draco nonetheless exerts a powerful tactical presence, dictating terms of engagement and placing its opponents firmly on the defensive.


If you want the cockpit, there's a line commented out.  Ensure
$Cockpit POF file:   dracoCkpt.pof
is right under
+Missile Banks:            2 (40, 40)


Anyone who wants to use these for their mod can.  I may have made them for BP, but I have no problem whatsoever with anyone using them however they like elsewhere.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Darius on April 06, 2012, 01:44:49 am
Thanks so much for doing this. I'll get to work bringing it into the modpack and testing it out as soon as possible.


Don't forget to add #Ship Classes and #End to the top and bottom of the -shp.tbm respectively.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Snail on April 06, 2012, 02:36:26 am
I must have missed the original development thread, so I'll take the opportunity to say that I think this looks bloody awesome.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Dragon on April 06, 2012, 04:59:15 am
It looks great. I think it should be fine as a replacement. It'll need testing, of course, but it looks like there'll be no major rebalance needed.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: General Battuta on April 06, 2012, 07:15:24 am
Marry me.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: achtung on April 06, 2012, 08:29:49 am
http://www.freespacemods.net/download.php?view.836

It's on fsmods now.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: -Norbert- on April 06, 2012, 10:35:27 am
I must have missed the original development thread, so I'll take the opportunity to say that I think this looks bloody awesome.
It didn't have it's own thread, but you can see the progress in the Diomedes vs. Karuna (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=79219.0) thread, beginning on page 3 or 4.

And I agree, that it is a gorgeous ship and fits in well with the GTVA next-gen fleet.
Only the name I'm not so sure about. Vengeance pattern sounds more like something for a heavy hitter and shock-jumper like the Chimera or Bellerophon, not to mention it's a bit out of place among the naming schemes of the GTVA.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on April 06, 2012, 10:54:21 am
You're probably right, I just wanted something to set it apart from the original model.  I didn't actually include it in any ingame data.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Klaustrophobia on April 06, 2012, 12:22:51 pm
what is the original model called on the wiki?  i can't find it.  (is it even there?)
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Droid803 on April 06, 2012, 12:27:00 pm
The original Diomedes uses a slightly modified GTMf Sparta hull, if that is what you mean.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: SypheDMar on April 06, 2012, 02:39:53 pm
I think it's a vast improvement over the original overall, but it makes me think of the UEC Sanctus. I wasn't sure why since this model doesn't look like a Sanctus.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on April 06, 2012, 05:25:52 pm
And now a hint for the next project.  Should make guessing really easy. 

(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5296/newprojectgm.png)

This one already looks cool, so it'll just be HTL-ed.

I think it's a vast improvement over the original overall, but it makes me think of the UEC Sanctus. I wasn't sure why since this model doesn't look like a Sanctus.
Well, it's very good at gutting Sanctuses...
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Commander Zane on April 06, 2012, 05:30:46 pm
Awesome, eager to see more. :yes:
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: General Battuta on April 06, 2012, 06:04:32 pm
You are god.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: General Battuta on April 06, 2012, 06:44:30 pm
If anyone could do some casual drop-in balance testing on BP2 missions I would be much obliged.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Nyctaeus on April 06, 2012, 06:45:33 pm
Man, this is impressive!
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: LordPomposity on April 06, 2012, 07:53:47 pm
If anyone could do some casual drop-in balance testing on BP2 missions I would be much obliged.

I used it in TBI this morning.

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/133/anotheronebitesthedust.jpg)

It did what GTVA ships are supposed to do.

On the other hand, Simak Station got caught briefly on my rotator, and thereafter displayed a velocity of 500 someodd meters per second despite being stationary. When I railgunned it down to 0, it shot off toward Jupiter at about that velocity while blowing up. Notably, when it actually did blow up, its fireball effect was centered on where it was when it hit zero. :p
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Drogoth on April 07, 2012, 07:02:34 am
So I'm a noob, how do I add this into the mod?
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on April 07, 2012, 08:40:53 am
Extract the archive & put what's inside in blueplanet2/data, it should replace the original Diomedes.

EDIT - testing it on Aristeia right now, it doesn't seem to be able to fire its beams at the cruisers.
EDIT - actually, it doesn't seem to have any weapon. Checking my table files.
EDIT - nope, nothing wrong with the tables.
EDIT - I can't target any of its subsystems.

OK, I think the game is just looking at the wrong model when it tries to load the ship's subsystem. I'm gonna try to remove all instances of the old model.

FINAL EDIT - yup I had to extract bp2-ship.tbm and remove the old entry for the diomedes, that cleared the table conflict.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Nyctaeus on April 07, 2012, 06:56:03 pm
Dude, are You going to remake also Titan and mighty Raynor? That would be cool, to see these destroyers after a visit in Your workshop :D
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: General Battuta on April 07, 2012, 07:00:03 pm
if you did that i would marry you
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Woolie Wool on April 07, 2012, 07:29:18 pm
He told me he might do the rest of the StratComm fleet. I hope he brings back the original stripe pattern on those ships though, the glowy light texture that replaces the stripes in the BP reskins has always looked off to me from the moment I played BP for the first time (I was at the time already very familiar with the original appearance of those ships).
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: General Battuta on April 07, 2012, 07:34:59 pm
(I was at the time already very familiar with the original appearance of those ships).

Might have something to do with it
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: AndrewofDoom on April 07, 2012, 07:51:11 pm
I definitely could get used to seeing something like this.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on April 07, 2012, 09:09:51 pm
I intend to do the Chimera, Bellerophon, Hyperion, Titan, and Raynor.  Probably in that order.  The Titan's not going to be easy, so it *might* switch places with the Raynor (which in turn might switch places with the Hyperion).  The textures will look similar to the Diomedes, including the stripes.  I'm not fond of the glowy lights either. 

In fact, the Chimera's coming along nicely.  Overhauled the engine section.  Don't like the current model's curvy look in that area.

(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3526/chimera2.png)

(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9057/chimera3.png)
I like AO renders.  Lets me see where I need to add detail.

Unlike the Dio, this will be a drop-in model.  No table changes whatsoever.

Definitely seeing the "wings" and conning tower as significant aspects of TEI ships, kinda like centrifuges for Fed ships.

A question for the Bellerophon when I get to it: Would it be better if the BBlue actually looked different from the two MBlues (as in bigger)?  Because right now, all three of its beam cannons look identical.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: General Battuta on April 07, 2012, 09:10:41 pm
The radius of the turret cannot change but please feel free to make any other aesthetic difference. Think of it as being more powerful as in 'longer' rather than 'wider'.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on April 08, 2012, 02:48:43 am
Ohshi-

Depending on the rate you release those, I might delay HWBP's planned progress to implement em. Not that I was doing much progress lately to begin with...
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Col. Fishguts on April 08, 2012, 07:05:03 am
I like the homeworldian flaps on the engine block and the ribs on the wings. But the conning tower could use some more geometry details to give it a sense of scale (same applies for the Diomedes, which looks badass otherwise)
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Crybertrance on April 08, 2012, 12:23:52 pm
Okay, I downloaded the Dio...  Really Impressive work!! however I do feel that the theme is very similar to the UEF (the blues stripes reinforce this)... however, really good model!  :yes: :nod:
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Klaustrophobia on April 08, 2012, 01:56:07 pm
i thought stratcomm's ships are already the best looking ones we have in FSO.  why do we need to redo them?  i know nothing about modding though, are they missing some of the high-tech fancy stuff other models have? 
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: General Battuta on April 08, 2012, 02:13:30 pm
i thought stratcomm's ships are already the best looking ones we have in FSO.  why do we need to redo them?  i know nothing about modding though, are they missing some of the high-tech fancy stuff other models have?

They aren't really up to the standard of the new UEF models.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on April 08, 2012, 02:18:28 pm
The designs themselves are excellent.  The issue is that the models are a little low on detail when compared to BP's more contemporary models like the Karuna and Solaris.  And most of all, they're tilemapped, which just doesn't look good.

Cybertrance: Everyone knows this war is light gray, white and teal versus dark gray, black and blue :p.  But actually, I put in stripes because I don't like the glowing blue lights on current ships, but still consider blue a GTVA color.  And there were blue stripes on the original (non-WiH) Chimera and Bellerophon.  And I love Homeworld, which has lots of stripes on ships.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: MatthTheGeek on April 08, 2012, 03:49:33 pm
i thought stratcomm's ships are already the best looking ones we have in FSO.  why do we need to redo them?  i know nothing about modding though, are they missing some of the high-tech fancy stuff other models have? 
Tilerape isn't tolerated around here. Everything that can help reducing the tilerape rate is good to take. It's basically that simple, more or less.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Qent on April 08, 2012, 09:26:30 pm
I like tiles. Sure, one could do better, but I don't think it looks that bad.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Dragon on April 09, 2012, 05:30:53 am
Exactly. Tiling is a good way to save time, and it looks acceptable if done well.
Thankfully, those models won't hold the release back, so time isn't a concern with them.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Kolgena on April 09, 2012, 08:16:41 pm
I like AO renders.  Lets me see where I need to add detail.

Should try to bake it into the final diffuse map too ;) IMO, the diomedes on first page could use a bake like that.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on April 09, 2012, 08:37:31 pm
It has one.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Kolgena on April 10, 2012, 11:12:13 am
Oops, sorry. looked like it might not have had one in the first shot. I guess the shadows threw me off.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: sky- on April 16, 2012, 06:06:14 am
Can someone test if this ship works in the very first mission of WiH? My Game crashes instantly after i start Mission 1 with the new Diomedes.  After deleting the new files everything works fine egain, so it has to be related to the Diomedes.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on April 16, 2012, 06:18:49 am
This is my first attempt at making a direct replacement for an existing ship, so I actually have no idea why the diomedes-shp.tbm has issues (I'm sure someone more experienced could tell me what I screwed up).  The simplest fix is to extract the bp2-shp.tbm and paste the new tables over the Diomedes entry in there.  That's the way I have it set up, and I understand it fixed issues for others.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on April 16, 2012, 06:39:05 am
Can someone test if this ship works in the very first mission of WiH? My Game crashes instantly after i start Mission 1 with the new Diomedes.  After deleting the new files everything works fine egain, so it has to be related to the Diomedes.
I've had some problems setting it up too, you can have a look at the last post of the first page of this thread.
This is my first attempt at making a direct replacement for an existing ship, so I actually have no idea why the diomedes-shp.tbm has issues (I'm sure someone more experienced could tell me what I screwed up).  The simplest fix is to extract the bp2-shp.tbm and paste the new tables over the Diomedes entry in there.  That's the way I have it set up, and I understand it fixed issues for others.
I don't think there is anything wrong with your table, it's just that if you just dump it in the bp folder, there is some mess up caused by conflicting table entries, or priorities or something like that.
Which is why I extracted the entire table, as I knew it should, in theory, cleanly override the table located in the .vp file. Well that sort of was my reasoning, I don't know if it was correct, but it solved the issue for me.

On a side note, regarding the intro cutscene, NuDiomedes is now capable of firing all its TerSlashBlues at the Cormorrant.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Darius on April 16, 2012, 07:03:31 am
There's subsystem naming differences between the old and new Diomedes (namely engines) which is causing a conflict. It's not 100% a plug-and-play conversion, some editing of the old file will be required.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Droid803 on April 17, 2012, 12:24:01 am
Instead, why not rename the subsystems in the new POF/edit whatever in that as necessary to match the old ones, so that it is plug-and-play?
Unless its got something to do with the detail-based subobjects requiring _a's _b's etc...
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on April 17, 2012, 05:48:36 pm
Maybe 2 engine subsystems was a bad idea.  I thought it mades no sense how a dual Paveway hit could knock out all 4 engines, considering how widely spaced out they are.  The Karuna has it set up right.

In other news, the Chimera model is pretty much complete.  I want to get feedback and suggestions before I start UV mapping.

(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/3222/gtcvchimera01.png)

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4914/gtcvchimera02.png)

(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8163/gtcvchimera03.png)

Currently sitting at around 12000 polygons.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Dragon on April 17, 2012, 05:56:59 pm
The bridge and turrets seems smaller than in the original, otherwise it's spot-on.
I think that the bridge may stay, but enlarge the turrets. STerPulse isn't exactly a small pulse.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: General Battuta on April 17, 2012, 06:01:33 pm
Turrets look the same size to me. I have some feedback: please marry me

e: I like the slightly harder-edged, more angular look you're going for with these ships. It fits well with the 'next-gen' aesthetic on the Atalanta and Nyx, and it makes the ships a little more menacing. It also recalls modern next-gen ship design, which is a great bit of resonance. I don't necessarily think you should do the Hyperion next, but I can't wait to see what you do with the Hyperion, which is a bit ungainly and would probably look great with some sharp lines.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Dragon on April 17, 2012, 06:14:00 pm
It'd be great if you could make sure that big turrets on all corvettes and the Hyperion are of the same size, since they all use the same weapon.
Hyperion done in this style could indeed be interesting.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Axem on April 17, 2012, 06:50:16 pm
I wish to make a complaint about your engine block! It is too lumpy and low profile! I'd suggest adding bringing the back the rear face in so you see more of the engines than just the nozzles. Add some greebles or pipez in there. But overall, very, very, very nice.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Nyctaeus on April 17, 2012, 06:56:48 pm
Now I love that ship :yes:, I can't wait to see Titan and Raynor :D
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on April 17, 2012, 07:10:03 pm
The turrets are actually a little bigger than they are on the older model, precisely to bring them in line with those on the Diomedes (which weren't altered from the Sparta-pattern Diomedes).

The Bellerophon is next in line after this is done (because Serkr Team is awesome).  Then the Hyperion.

Axem: Good idea.  I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Droid803 on April 18, 2012, 12:05:07 am
Hey uh, I just downloaded the Diomedes, and uh...

You forgot to add smoothgroups/edgesplit/smoothing. It has a rather bad case of facets on the rounded surfaces!
Please fix (and remember to do so for all future releases) :P

Thank you!
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on April 18, 2012, 12:16:25 am
I'm aware.  I was on release.  Blender was just an ass and forgot my smoothing when I imported, and I didn't have the patience to spend a few hours redefining the groups in Blender's roundabout way of doing it.  Don't worry.  The Chimera's curved hull is a lot more obvious than the Dio's is, and I wouldn't stand for faceting there.

It won't matter soon anyway.  I've got a new LOD0 planned for the Diomedes.  Right now, it's got less than half the polygons the Chimera has, and I'm a bit dissatisfied with the detail level.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: sky- on April 18, 2012, 05:38:55 am
Your Chimera looks great! Thanks for the good work.
It is way more 'terran' now, sharp edges and big turrets are the thing. Let the curvy stuff to the Vasudans.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: crizza on April 18, 2012, 07:50:52 am
For what stands the S in STerPulse anyway?
smal Terpulse not at all?
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: General Battuta on April 18, 2012, 07:54:55 am
For what stands the S in STerPulse anyway?
smal Terpulse not at all?

Nah, it's just Small Terran Pulse
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Dragon on April 18, 2012, 08:14:30 am
Still, it's only small when compared to TerPulse, which is humongous (and that's a good thing, considering it's used on Raynor and Titan).
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: crizza on April 18, 2012, 11:14:55 am
So STerPulse are mounted on ship like cruisers and corvettes while the TerPulse is mounted on Destroyers...allright, thanks :)
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Tanksurge on April 19, 2012, 01:02:34 am
Hello there, wanted to say you guys done an excellent job on both AoA and WiH.  Great storyline.   I was thinking about the Titan.  Does it need a redone?  I mean at least couple parts of the ships could use a remodel, bridge i can understand, but the ship itself looks great tho.   I'm just saying  :D.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: -Norbert- on April 19, 2012, 04:24:31 am
The answer to your question is on the previous page of the thread:

I intend to do the Chimera, Bellerophon, Hyperion, Titan, and Raynor.  Probably in that order.  The Titan's not going to be easy, so it *might* switch places with the Raynor (which in turn might switch places with the Hyperion).  The textures will look similar to the Diomedes, including the stripes.  I'm not fond of the glowy lights either. 
[...]
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on May 04, 2012, 08:51:12 am
Preparing to move on to LODs and debris.  Want feedback on the texture.  I might add a few more markings like the two boxes on the bow, and I'd really like to add something more to the flaps on the stern, but apart from that, the texture is pretty much done (pending suggestions).

(http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/7169/gtcvchimera04.png)

(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9250/gtcvchimera05.png)

(http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2401/gtcvchimera06.png)

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6939/gtcvchimera07.png)

I'm not a very good texture artist, unfortunately, which is why it looks rather bland.  Can't hope to match Esarai's work.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Commander Zane on May 04, 2012, 08:57:15 am
That looks gorgeous either way.
:jaw:
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: The E on May 04, 2012, 09:07:46 am
Here's a quick and dirty idea (please bear in mind that I am not in any shape or form a texture artist)

(http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/E/pics/chimera.png)
(In case it ain't clear, my idea is to use that area to hint at a sort of bussard intake)

In addition, how about a blue stripe across the white area on those "wings", just to break up the area a bit?
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Rodo on May 04, 2012, 09:11:24 am
You could try adding red warning labels beside the turrets, and engine exhausts.

And, hey..

It's looks *****ing cool.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: General Battuta on May 04, 2012, 09:39:46 am
Damn girl, you look fine

No Bussard intakes, it'd look too much like the back end of a Karuna! (also I would have to come up with technobabble to make it make sense)
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: The E on May 04, 2012, 09:52:41 am
You are as usual correct, Batman.

But I'd like to have _something_ more interesting there than just grey slabs of stuff.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: General Battuta on May 04, 2012, 09:55:15 am
Conformal targeting sensors for the main beams? Lidar and ****?
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: The E on May 04, 2012, 09:59:41 am
Sure, why not.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on May 04, 2012, 10:00:34 am
But I'd like to have _something_ more interesting there than just grey slabs of stuff.
  So would I, believe me. 

I like the sensors idea.  Will see what I can do.  Also added a blue stripe to the white parts as suggested.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Nyctaeus on May 04, 2012, 11:02:52 am
GLORIOUS *________*, can't wait for destroyers!
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Thaeris on May 04, 2012, 11:40:44 am
Hmmm...

After looking through the old ships, would you consider uprgading the Sparta itself at some point? It is a rather interesting vessel, after all.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on May 04, 2012, 12:16:36 pm
I'm not going to categorically say no, but it's unlikely.  Something about that design really rubs me the wrong way.  I thought it was the asymmetry, but I like the Orion, so I don't know.  I just don't like it.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: -Norbert- on May 04, 2012, 12:16:58 pm
It is only the most minor nitpick, but could you move the nameplace above that AAA turret? I can't really explain why, but I think it would look better on the uppger half of the ship.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Crybertrance on May 04, 2012, 12:30:18 pm
Beautiful work, However, I would suggest to move the "nameplate" texture a bit higher (maybe in the depression directly above its current position.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on May 04, 2012, 12:44:23 pm
Norbert: like this? 

(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9683/gtcvchimera08.png) 

I prefer it below the gap myself, since it adds a bit more... weight? to the bottom.  Makes it feel a bit more balanced.  Anyone else have an opinion on this?

Cybertrance: The gap is both too busy and too small to fit the nameplate.  It's either above or below the AAA.
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on May 04, 2012, 12:58:22 pm
Also: since this thread in no longer exclusively about the Diomedes, shouldn't it be renamed or split or whatever?
Title: Re: [Release]Vengeance-pattern GTCv Diomedes
Post by: Aesaar on May 04, 2012, 01:08:08 pm
No need for a new thread.  Renamed.  Could also fit in discussion about the fluff side of the TEI ships.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Dragon on May 04, 2012, 06:40:35 pm
I prefer the nameplate above the gap.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 04, 2012, 07:58:06 pm
i agree with aesaar on the nameplate positioning and reasons, but it's a pretty trivial preference.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Scotty on May 04, 2012, 08:15:16 pm
The Chimera and Bellerophon aren't supposed to be 'balanced', they're supposed to be front-heavy, powerful striking implements to hammer Shivan capital ships into nothingness in as few seconds as possible.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Kolgena on May 04, 2012, 11:03:58 pm
It looks really good already.

A couple points to consider: The front end, with all those black supports, looks a bit weird/almost like lego. Is there a way to add detail in the texture to make it look better?

There are some very large stretches of flat space with nothing to break up the surface. The back of the four wings (?) are the worst offenders. Again, maybe something in the texture could alleviate this?

These are some minor gripes about a very good looking model. Kudos to your good work!
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Goblix on May 07, 2012, 11:11:12 am
Both of these ships are just stunning. I really love the direction you've taken with the ships giving them harder edges.

It's great to see these updated as well, visuals wise they were some of the ugliest ships in Blue Planet, the mod really needed this!

Great job, I'm anxious to see what you do with the other TEI warships.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: General Battuta on May 07, 2012, 11:29:20 am
Discussion in the other thread reminds me - when you redo the Raynor, please kill those awful mid-hull struts.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: LordPomposity on May 07, 2012, 11:35:17 am
Discussion in the other thread reminds me - when you redo the Raynor, please kill those awful mid-hull struts.
Oh thank god.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 07, 2012, 11:44:28 am
What do you call strut ?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: General Battuta on May 07, 2012, 11:46:50 am
There's a gap about two-thirds down the Raynor's hull that's bridged by these three girders. It doesn't make much sense, and sort of ruins the illusion that this is a colossal warship which can, in spite of its slim profile, shrug off thermonuclear-yield hits.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 07, 2012, 11:50:08 am
So it doesn't bother you on both the Chimera and the Bellerophon, but suddenly, out of the blue, it's awful on the Raynor ?

It doesn't make much sense
Since when does it have to be ? Have you ever heard about something called Rule of Cool ?

So yeah, sure, let's remove all the distinctive features from our ships ! What could possibly go wrong ?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: General Battuta on May 07, 2012, 11:51:50 am
The reason it doesn't bother me on the Chimera and the Belle is that it looks good there, and it doesn't on the Raynor. It's not cool, it doesn't contribute to its overall impact on the viewer (unlike on the corvettes, which are supposed to give the glass-cannon impression).
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Dragon on May 07, 2012, 11:53:19 am
I think it looks good where it is. It's also consistent with other Stratcomm's ships.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: The E on May 07, 2012, 11:56:06 am
The Chimera and Bellerophon are basically beam cannons with engines attached to them. Making them bulkier would delay their entry into service, and make them more expensive, two things the GTVA can not really afford. Geting them out there now and then maybe bulking them up later makes more sense as it gets enormous amounts of firepower on target quickly.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: LordPomposity on May 07, 2012, 12:02:03 pm
The Chimera and Bellerephon are both beam cannons with engines. They're designed to jump in, obliterate their target with one or two beam salvos, and get out. If they're destroyed in the course of this, they're expendable. It makes perfect sense for the GTVA to skimp on structure and armor on these ships in the interests of saving costs and increasing speed and maneuverability. You can even make a rule of cool argument about leaving the beam cannon tubes (which is what the spindles on these two ships are) open to space to promote cooling, even though in reality this wouldn't work.

The Raynor is designed to get in the thick of things and fight as a line warship, as evidenced by having its beams and torpedoes dispersed across its hull rather than all clustered forward. It needs to keep the admiral onboard safe while he directs the battle, and as a destroyer it is absolutely not expendable. The spindles don't line up to any of the Raynor's beam cannons; they're just there, and serve no purpose other than making the Raynor look like something you could snap over your knee like a twig.

The Raynor's spindles are the science fiction equivalent of this:

(http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/16/wpap20061675uh.jpg)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 07, 2012, 12:04:06 pm
The reason it doesn't bother me on the Chimera and the Belle is that it looks good there
Works for me.

and it doesn't on the Raynor.
Wait what.

It's not cool, it doesn't contribute to its overall impact on the viewer (unlike on the corvettes, which are supposed to give the glass-cannon impression).
140k HP and a frontal HBlue/BBlue pair still enter the glass cannon category to me. A Raynor is still Shivan beam fodder, much more than even the Chimera and Bellerophon if you look at volume/HP ratio.

In any case, who cares about all of that. We're all trying to make sense about stuff, which is completely irrelevant here. This gap is a distinctive feature, and there is just no viable reason to remove it out of the blue.

Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: LordPomposity on May 07, 2012, 12:07:07 pm
140k HP and a frontal HBlue/BBlue pair still enter the glass cannon category to me. A Raynor is still Shivan beam fodder, much more than even the Chimera and Bellerophon if you look at volume/HP ratio.
The HP of corvettes relative to destroyers in FreeSpace has never made a whole lot of sense.

In WiH, at least, the tabled hitpoints are (often) bull**** that get replaced with special hits and armor categories that reflect the ships' actual capabilities.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Rodo on May 07, 2012, 12:10:27 pm
I concur, the Raynor's girders should disappear.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: pecenipicek on May 07, 2012, 12:14:22 pm
i'm with matththegeek on the subject at hand currently.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 07, 2012, 12:18:32 pm
In any case, who cares about all of that. We're all trying to make sense about stuff, which is completely irrelevant here. This gap is a distinctive feature, and there is just no viable reason to remove it out of the blue.
There is one and that one you already brought up yourself: "Rule of cool". If someone can come up with something that looks better, while still leaving the ship easily recognizable as the Raynor, wouldn't that be a good thing?

As for me, I don't much mind them being there or being gone, as long as it looks good, though there is one matter to consider: Access to the fighterbay. Due to those girders making up the middle of the ship, it was possible to get to the hanger "through" the ship rather than having to fly around it, if you happened to be on the side opposite the bay. While I don't think it is enough of a balance change to matter, I thought it best to mention it at least, to bring it back to memory.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: SaltyWaffles on May 07, 2012, 12:41:23 pm
The reason it doesn't bother me on the Chimera and the Belle is that it looks good there
Works for me.

and it doesn't on the Raynor.
Wait what.

It's not cool, it doesn't contribute to its overall impact on the viewer (unlike on the corvettes, which are supposed to give the glass-cannon impression).
140k HP and a frontal HBlue/BBlue pair still enter the glass cannon category to me. A Raynor is still Shivan beam fodder, much more than even the Chimera and Bellerophon if you look at volume/HP ratio.

In any case, who cares about all of that. We're all trying to make sense about stuff, which is completely irrelevant here. This gap is a distinctive feature, and there is just no viable reason to remove it out of the blue.

Erm, no. It's still not a glass  cannon. Maybe by heavy destroyer standards, but not by normal standards--which still place the Raynor in the "looks like a battlestar except for that random part in the middle that makes it seem like a twig".

Rather, the Raynor looks beefy, solid, and great--except for those struts. Random, and REALLY, REEEEAAAAALLY jarring. Imagine having the back-half of a superbattleship connected to the front half solely by a trio of struts? It takes you RIGHT out of your suspension of disbelief, and you're instead focusing on questions like "what the hell? That makes no sense. Why is that there? It goes completely against the notion of a destroyer-of-the-line..."

It looks completely out of place, makes no sense whatsoever from any design standpoint (the Raynor is NOT a glass cannon destroyer, nor is it a shock-ship with 90% of its firepower directed solely at the front, with minimal armor), breaks suspension of disbelief/is extremely jarring, and is a kind of design feature you'd ONLY (and I do mean ONLY) see in ships that either aren't supposed to see action (like medical ships) or are supposed to be cheap and expendable, which the Raynor is most certainly not. It's a massive structural, logistical, psychological, and engineering weakness, not just in the face of enemy fire, but even under basic operation (all traffic between the front and back halves of the ship is seriously bottlenecked, including traffic of material and energy; the ship has DRASTICALLY weaker structural integrity and tolerances for maneuvers).

If you want to replace it with a solid, yet still comparatively slim section of the ship, then I guess that's much better, but it's still stupid--it's a major flaw in design that can be exploited, and runs counter to the role the Raynor is designed to fill.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 07, 2012, 12:47:13 pm
There is one and that one you already brought up yourself: "Rule of cool". If someone can come up with something that looks better, while still leaving the ship easily recognizable as the Raynor, wouldn't that be a good thing?
The problem is that the Raynor has very little distinctive elements aside from this gap. You remove that, the Raynor becomes just Yet Another dull warship. I do not doubt that it is possible to make an awesome-looking ship from the Raynor after removing the gap. It just won't be the Raynor anymore after that, it will be another cool ship.

It looks completely out of place, makes no sense whatsoever from any design standpoint
Ahem. Try to follow the conversation please :
We're all trying to make sense about stuff, which is completely irrelevant here.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: General Battuta on May 07, 2012, 12:52:41 pm
I think it's always a good policy to put something of a ship's flavor and role into its design, and I don't think the girder bits on the Raynor achieve that - to my eye they work against it.

Maybe they're there to enable multi vector attack mode. number one, separate the saucer section
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: LordPomposity on May 07, 2012, 12:55:47 pm
It looks completely out of place, makes no sense whatsoever from any design standpoint
Ahem. Try to follow the conversation please :
We're all trying to make sense about stuff, which is completely irrelevant here.
If you don't care whether the ship designs make sense or not, that's fine. That's your position. You're entitled to hold it, and you're entitled to defend it. You're not entitled to unilaterally declare discussion of the subject over.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Aesaar on May 07, 2012, 04:17:26 pm
I'm not making any public comments about the Raynor until I finish the Chimera, the Bellerophon, and the Hyperion.  Have barely planned any of it out, though I'm really looking forward to starting it.

A couple points to consider: The front end, with all those black supports, looks a bit weird/almost like lego. Is there a way to add detail in the texture to make it look better?

There are some very large stretches of flat space with nothing to break up the surface. The back of the four wings (?) are the worst offenders. Again, maybe something in the texture could alleviate this?
  I've resolved the first one quite nicely, I think.  Used the same texture that's on the supports of the current model.  Looks much better.

(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/6176/gtcvchimera09.png)

On the second point: I know, believe me.  Annoys me too.  I'm hoping the markings I'm adding will alleviate it somewhat, but I have absolutely no idea what to do with the back of the wings.  Adding more geometry would be difficult, since I'm pretty much out of space on the texture after adding the LIDAR system.  I'm taking suggestions.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Kolgena on May 07, 2012, 06:29:59 pm
Yep. That looks better.

2. Racing stripes. It needs racing stripes. The more you put on it, the faster it'll go. Wait.

That was a joke suggestion until I realized the model is already covered in what essentially amount to transverse racing stripes.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Aesaar on May 07, 2012, 06:39:57 pm
Hang on.  Do GTVA corvettes have escape pods?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: General Battuta on May 07, 2012, 06:54:33 pm
I'm not sure if there's any canonical information.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Dragon on May 07, 2012, 07:13:53 pm
I don't think they do, since the only pods ever seen in FS came out of fighter bays, and the corvettes (except the Diomedes) have none.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Axem on May 07, 2012, 07:17:37 pm
Quote from: FreeSpace 2 Tech Room Entry
The GTEP Hermes escape pod is now standard equipment on every GTVA warship of cruiser size or larger. Each ship has several escape pods magnetically coupled to airlocks scattered around the ship's outer hull. Not intended for whole-crew evacuations, the Hermes has space for up to 20 crew members. Each pod is propelled by a small fusion engine, enough to remove the pod from the immediate vicinity of an exploding warship. It is also capable of subspace jumps.

Unless safety laws have regressed since FreeSpace 2, I think they would have.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 07, 2012, 08:22:39 pm
Considering that even fighters in BP have escape pods (or more likely eject the whole cockpit) it wouldn't be much of a stretch to give smaller capships escape pods.
One could argue that the Hermes are just especially big pods and thus can only launch from the Hangar.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Droid803 on May 07, 2012, 10:11:46 pm
Seeing as Faustus's have hermes pods...i wouldn't see why not.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: pecenipicek on May 08, 2012, 02:38:23 am
Yep. That looks better.

2. Racing stripes. It needs racing stripes. The more you put on it, the faster it'll go. Wait.

That was a joke suggestion until I realized the model is already covered in what essentially amount to transverse racing stripes.
DA RED WUNZ GO FASTA!





you set that one up, not me :p
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 08, 2012, 04:00:44 am
Seeing as Faustus's have hermes pods...i wouldn't see why not.
I always figured that was an exception, because they expected a Vasudan attack on the ship and there was a pretty good chance of it being destroyed (apart from being an inconsistant plot device that is...).
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: crizza on May 08, 2012, 05:44:56 am
Would be funny to see a stricken corvette vent it's armour plating only to release a swarm of escape pods^^
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 08, 2012, 05:50:36 am
It would probably be easier to put escape pods if Hermeses were human-sized instead of being like large enough to accommodate like a hundred crewmembers each...
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Aesaar on May 08, 2012, 07:13:14 am
These will look a bit off because I haven't added markings or re-baked the AO, so keep that in mind.

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2644/gtcvchimera10.png)

4 pods on each wing, each nestled in a gap in the hull.  They're oriented like that because it's the only way to hook them up to the ship without having either the window or the engines exposed.  Note that they're just static detailing and won't be undockable.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 08, 2012, 07:16:37 am
Works for me, doesn't look out of place, adds some welcomed detail to what was a flat hull plane.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: sky- on May 08, 2012, 11:35:32 am
Maybe if the escape pods dont look fitting at the end, you could think about vents for excess plasma from the reactor / beam generators.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 08, 2012, 12:37:10 pm
Or hatches that are closed over the actual escape-pod. Just having the pods docked externally sounds like it would compromise the armor in that area far more than a "door" would.

That is one point I liked about ME2, that the Normandies escape pods were protected by a massive armor plate that moved aside to allow them to launch, though that wouldn't solve the problem of putting something into a bland area, unlike the hatches.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Thaeris on May 08, 2012, 04:44:17 pm
I would suggest "button panels" for where the escape pods are mounted, though this would require you to adjust the UV map... or, you could just put a normal map detail in the area. This conceals the escape pods from the outside, protecting them from minor hits and stray fire. When necessary, the panel bursts off after the crew has boarded, and the ship is ejected on a rail from the ship. Such a solution is more elegant, I think, and better fits in with the visuals of never seeing the escape pod launch ports that supposedly all or most FS ships have.

To illustrate, I have attached perhaps the worst bit of Paint-made concept art I have ever prepared:



[attachment deleted by a ninja]
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Woolie Wool on May 08, 2012, 06:36:06 pm
Or hatches that are closed over the actual escape-pod. Just having the pods docked externally sounds like it would compromise the armor in that area far more than a "door" would.

That is one point I liked about ME2, that the Normandies escape pods were protected by a massive armor plate that moved aside to allow them to launch, though that wouldn't solve the problem of putting something into a bland area, unlike the hatches.
It seems like it would make more sense for the escape pod hatch to be blown off with explosive charges than moved aside with a mechanism. Less potential to fail, simpler, the ship's probably in dire straits at that point anyway.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Kolgena on May 08, 2012, 09:04:10 pm
The way those escape pod things are now... well. Let's just say I had no idea they were escape pod hatches until I read what they were supposed to be. They're not very recognizable as something an escape pod comes out of.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: -Norbert- on May 09, 2012, 03:57:29 am
Or hatches that are closed over the actual escape-pod. Just having the pods docked externally sounds like it would compromise the armor in that area far more than a "door" would.

That is one point I liked about ME2, that the Normandies escape pods were protected by a massive armor plate that moved aside to allow them to launch, though that wouldn't solve the problem of putting something into a bland area, unlike the hatches.
It seems like it would make more sense for the escape pod hatch to be blown off with explosive charges than moved aside with a mechanism. Less potential to fail, simpler, the ship's probably in dire straits at that point anyway.
While I agree with you on that, it really doesn't change how it looks when they are closed, which is the point of the discussion. I doubt we'll ever see them actually used, though that would be very cool, if the engine and model can handle it. I suppose that would also require and empty space and a docking point beneath the disposable armor slab.... and a new escapepod model too.... the Hermes just doesn't seem right for that kind of thing, it's more like a shuttle than an emergency life-boat.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Drogoth on May 09, 2012, 07:33:46 pm
On the topic of the Raynor discussion, I to, for what it's worth think the struts are a bad thing in the design.

Say what you will about a design's 'character' but when a facet of that character makes what is supposedly an impressive and powerful warship seem like a fragile floating stick it detracts from rather then adds to that character.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Droid803 on May 09, 2012, 08:37:35 pm
No man, those struts are a design feature. The front part and back part can separate and operate as independent ships yo.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Aesaar on May 09, 2012, 08:40:15 pm
The way those escape pod things are now... well. Let's just say I had no idea they were escape pod hatches until I read what they were supposed to be. They're not very recognizable as something an escape pod comes out of.

They're not hatches.  What you're looking at is the bottom of the Hermes model.

Honestly, the more I look at them, the more I dislike them, so I might just replace them with squarish hatches and leave it at that.  Getting eager to finish this thing and move on.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Thaeris on May 09, 2012, 10:19:29 pm
On the topic of the Raynor discussion, I to, for what it's worth think the struts are a bad thing in the design.

Say what you will about a design's 'character' but when a facet of that character makes what is supposedly an impressive and powerful warship seem like a fragile floating stick it detracts from rather then adds to that character.

I love how no one seems to be complaining about the UEF ships, which are even more fragile in their construction on account of the spinny parts and the large quantities of exposed facilities...
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: General Battuta on May 09, 2012, 10:20:24 pm
No, believe me, that's had plenty of discussion.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Thaeris on May 09, 2012, 10:27:26 pm
Well, in all truth, I'm sure it has. But, I will conclude that Stratcomm's ships have a great, unique style to them, and I certainly never found them offensive. In general, if one is looking for realism, or attempts at realism in combat spacecraft design, one is better off writing a new story all together - such realism was never one of FS's agendas to begin with.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: General Battuta on May 09, 2012, 10:30:35 pm
That is true. Fortunately, realism is not the issue at stake, nor is anyone offended, and the topic of the general style of Stratcomm's ships has yet to arise.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: qwadtep on May 09, 2012, 11:43:50 pm
I for one love the struts on the Raynor. They look cool, and for all we know they're an accepted design weakness because they allow the front and back of the ship to be constructed/replaced separately without having to tear everything apart.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: QuakeIV on May 11, 2012, 11:14:39 pm
Does this have visible beams for all of its LOD's?

I dunno if this was mentioend before but its kinda disorentating to see a chimera jump in long distance with no beams, then they just suddenly appear at 6k or so.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Droid803 on May 11, 2012, 11:19:17 pm
Just make sure at least the beam disch texchures is on LOD1 and maybe LOD2 as well.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 12, 2012, 05:34:11 am
They were on his Diomedes, I'm sure he'll think about it for the rest :)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Aesaar on May 12, 2012, 07:24:10 pm
Does this have visible beams for all of its LOD's?

I dunno if this was mentioend before but its kinda disorentating to see a chimera jump in long distance with no beams, then they just suddenly appear at 6k or so.

Just make sure at least the beam disch texchures is on LOD1 and maybe LOD2 as well.

Definitely.  One of the things that irks me about the current model is that the very obvious beam emitters disappear when it switches to LOD2 at 3500m.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: T-Man on May 17, 2012, 06:09:31 am
Square hatches would probably be better (apprechiate the work you put into putting the Hermes in like that though); if you had the pod's underside exposed like that it might get hit by a weapon. Having escape pods on the model is a great touch though; always wondered where they were on ships. :yes:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Aesaar on May 23, 2012, 10:13:47 pm
About goddamn time I got this thing done.  Was sitting lod and debris half done for two weeks. 

(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/5281/gtcvchimera11t.png) (http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5347/gtcvchimera11.png)
GTCv Pilum and GTCv Hydra, part of the Serkr Hunter-Killer group. (click image for larger)

Download v1.01 (Mediafire) (http://www.mediafire.com/?9mwnsi8d88byny8)

Unlike the Diomedes, this one is a drop-in replacement.  All the table does is adjust LOD distances and add the "fire down normals" flag to the STerPulse turrets.

Also added a transport dockpoint.

Note I'm aware of the dark area around the nameplate.  The only explanation I can think of is Valathil's shadows not ignoring transparent surfaces.  If you're not using a shadows build, it doesn't show up.

Next in line is the Bellerophon, along with an update for the Diomedes, to resolve the debris issues, the faceting, and to generally increase the detail to the Chimera's level.

Feedback always welcome.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Droid803 on May 23, 2012, 11:08:18 pm
Why is the nameplate still at the bottom :/ Makes it look all cramped because the bottom region is already smaller than the top.
Maybe I should have spoken up about it sooner, but I assumed it stuck to top since the last image was top.

EDIT: Also, the multipart turrets are faceted.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Aesaar on May 23, 2012, 11:18:09 pm
The nameplate's on the bottom because I genuinely think it looks better there.  I guess I could make a nameplate on top version if it's that important.  Wouldn't take very long.

Blender really hates me.  I know I set smoothing on those turrets.  Twice.  *sigh*  Must figure out why it keeps on doing this.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: General Battuta on May 23, 2012, 11:41:46 pm
I'm not sure about fire down normals. It'd be awesome...if it worked reliably.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: qwadtep on May 24, 2012, 12:29:40 am
Yeah, I'm really not into the lower nameplate. Would look much less cluttered if moved up.

Love the lights on the wings though. Pretty.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Droid803 on May 24, 2012, 12:51:01 am
I'm not sure about fire down normals. It'd be awesome...if it worked reliably.

"fire on target" ? IIRC that's what that flag was made for, so the AI doesn't get trigger happy with turrets and fire them before they're done turning.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Kolgena on May 24, 2012, 01:15:05 am
Looks pretty good to me. I have no idea what fire-down-normals is, but I'd be fine with the nameplate if the background wasn't a random rectangle of dark grey.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Crybertrance on May 24, 2012, 03:07:30 am
GTC Chimera FTW...I think I might switch sides from he UEF to the GTVA if Aesar continues his awesome work!  :yes: :yes:

However, I do agree that the nameplate would look better higher up, it feels too congested compared to the upper-half of the ship.
That aside, I think that the new Chimera looks awesome on my desktop...  :nod:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes - IP: Chimera)
Post by: Drogoth on May 24, 2012, 05:17:54 am

(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/5281/gtcvchimera11t.png) (http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5347/gtcvchimera11.png)
GTCv Pilum and GTCv Hydra, part of the Serkr Hunter-Killer group. (click image for larger)



Aesaar, you do damn good work. This is my new desktop background haha.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Aesaar on May 24, 2012, 08:51:59 am
Looks pretty good to me. I have no idea what fire-down-normals is, but I'd be fine with the nameplate if the background wasn't a random rectangle of dark grey.

Like I said, it's just the way Valathil's shadows interact with the nameplate.  The same thing happens on the UEF ships.  If you use a 3.6.14 build, it doesn't show up.   The only way to avoid it is either to have the nameplate so close to the hull you get flickering (like on the Diomedes, and even then it's iffy), or to have an integrated nameplate (like on the Orion), rather than a separate object.

Fire down normals basically makes the weapon only fire in the direction it's facing (its normal, you can get a good explanation of what that is in the texturing tutorial in the modding section), directly along gun barrels and the like.  I wasn't aware it had problems.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: General Battuta on May 24, 2012, 08:55:37 am
We had it on for a while and then ended up turning it off - the precise reason why evades me right now. Switching it back on could cause subtle creeping balance changes and we're insanely phobic of those.  :nervous:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Dragon on May 24, 2012, 08:59:24 am
Turrets on BP warships rotate fast enough it's not really an issue. Also "fire down normals" is somewhat buggy. "Fire on target" is a better version.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: metirian on May 24, 2012, 12:03:35 pm
i downloaded the chimera and put it in the data folder but is still not the new one its the old one still did i do something wrong? i put all the stuff in the respected folders.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 24, 2012, 12:10:32 pm
i would like to go on record as saying i approve of the nameplate on the bottom.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: AtomicClucker on May 24, 2012, 12:11:34 pm
For some of those pics posted, Serkr team is fast striking like a Tev Boss.

These babies recapture much of the "block" that made me love the slew of Terran and Vasudan FS1 design ethos.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Aesaar on May 24, 2012, 03:15:12 pm
I've hit a... problem with the debris.  It moves away from the ship properly, except, save for one piece (the front one) they all... spin.  At high very speed.  Can anyone reproduce this, and if so, any idea what's causing it?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Droid803 on May 24, 2012, 03:25:17 pm
In PCS2, select the debris pieces, then go to radius.
I bet the numbers there are tiny.
Just hit "reset" (the button next to the number), for each spinny debris piece. Should fix it.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Aesaar on May 24, 2012, 03:44:42 pm
That did it.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: crizza on May 24, 2012, 06:34:21 pm
So...help an old man...
after adding the Dio I get some issues about...every single subsystem not working as it should...quite frustrating...
So I have to do what?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Droid803 on May 24, 2012, 07:16:57 pm
post a log file.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on May 25, 2012, 02:08:03 am
Wait, I know what causes this, let me dig this very topic.

EDIT - here it is, it was some table conflict I think.
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=80495.msg1598652#msg1598652
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: crizza on May 25, 2012, 05:31:55 am
Works just fine X3no, no I can at least run the opening sequence of WiH^^
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Kolgena on May 25, 2012, 08:16:37 pm
Uh, isn't the diomedes only supposed to have 2 beams, not 4?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Aesaar on May 25, 2012, 08:28:33 pm
No, it always had 4 TerSlashBlues.  There are 3 guns on it that weren't on the Sparta-Diomedes: 1 AAA and 2 Terran Turret 2s.  Also Supernovas as standard, just like the Triteia in TBI.

crizza: if it's not the table conflict, I don't know what it is.  What missions do the warnings show up in?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: crizza on May 26, 2012, 05:21:00 am
I got crashes right at the Intro "Freespace 2 doesn't work right, closing now"
But after doing what X3no's link told me, it works...till now^^
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Kolgena on May 26, 2012, 12:42:59 pm
That did it.  Thanks.

Is this fixed in the download on the first page?

Also, tried installing the diomedes, but it gave me a freeze/black screen when trying load up aristea. Engine subsystem name conflicts?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Aesaar on May 26, 2012, 01:21:57 pm
Yes.

I had no problems loading Aristeia with the Dio, so I really don't know what the problem is.

Honestly, it might be better waiting for the v1.1 release, which should happen by Thursday/Friday.  I'll be completely getting rid of the extra engine and the table will be a simple +nocreate entry.  That engine is more trouble than it's worth.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Kolgena on May 26, 2012, 01:51:39 pm
Yay! Thanks.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: General Battuta on May 26, 2012, 02:21:12 pm
Probably want to leave the secondary armament on Piranhas too.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Aesaar on May 26, 2012, 08:55:40 pm
Won't touch the official turret loadouts.  I will, however, keep the 3 extra point-defense guns.  4 AAAs and 4 TT2s just isn't enough for a ship of this size.  Even with the added guns, it's still the least well protected of the Tev corvettes.  I'd like it if you guys kept them as well, but I certainly won't begrudge you if you don't :).

Also, are the drone dockpoints backwards?  Never got to testing that.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 27, 2012, 02:56:23 am
Who needs defensive turrets when you have a fighterbay full of elite GTVA pilots ?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: qwadtep on May 27, 2012, 03:56:57 am
For being the "least protected of the Tev corvettes," the point defenses seem to kill me just fine in Darkest Hour and Aristeia ;_;
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 27, 2012, 04:10:27 am
Aessar, you might be interested in knowing that you have missing polies around the top engine of your Chimera's LOD1.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: metirian on May 27, 2012, 11:21:57 pm
ive tried and tried. please teach this idiot how to get the chimera to work. which folder do i put this stuff in. i thought it was the data file.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 27, 2012, 11:47:03 pm
I think I'm just gonna wait till these get rolled into an official update.  I haven't even played with the latest update yet.  I was about to, but then the impossible to save frigate reports started coming in and I figured I'd wait for 3.6.14 final.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Aesaar on May 28, 2012, 01:04:55 am
MatthTheGeek: Acknowleged.  I'll handle it.

metirian: Extract the contents of the .rar to your blueplanet2 folder.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: General Battuta on May 28, 2012, 07:47:36 am
I think I'm just gonna wait till these get rolled into an official update.  I haven't even played with the latest update yet.  I was about to, but then the impossible to save frigate reports started coming in and I figured I'd wait for 3.6.14 final.

Holy ****, you may be a lifesaver. You have the pre-update version of BP2. If you have a minute, could you grab 3.6.14 RC6, then create a second blueplanet2 folder (call it blueplanet2new), install the UPDATED version of BP2 there, and compare the difficulty of Delenda Est between the two installs?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: DireWolf on May 28, 2012, 11:19:28 am
I just realized that I have a pre update and post update BP2 install sitting around in my FS2 folder. I don't think I'll have time today, but if it helps I'll do a run-through on both with RC6.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Aesaar on May 28, 2012, 11:58:34 am
Me too.  Suddenly realised I hadn't updated WiH on my laptop.  I'll give it a go when I have time.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: metirian on May 28, 2012, 12:06:10 pm
thank you so much Aesaar. now i understand how to do it. again thank you
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Klaustrophobia on May 28, 2012, 01:24:00 pm
I think I'm just gonna wait till these get rolled into an official update.  I haven't even played with the latest update yet.  I was about to, but then the impossible to save frigate reports started coming in and I figured I'd wait for 3.6.14 final.

Holy ****, you may be a lifesaver. You have the pre-update version of BP2. If you have a minute, could you grab 3.6.14 RC6, then create a second blueplanet2 folder (call it blueplanet2new), install the UPDATED version of BP2 there, and compare the difficulty of Delenda Est between the two installs?

sorry to disappoint, but i have the update, just haven't played it past the first 2 missions. :(  but it looks like we have 2 new volunteers anyway :D
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: rscaper1070 on June 16, 2012, 01:18:37 pm
 :bump:

Oh Bellerophon, where art thou? After that frenzy of modeling this silence has me worried.  :shaking: Any hope for a WIP shot or two? Your models are awesome and I can't wait to see what you come up with.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Aesaar on June 16, 2012, 02:08:27 pm
Things got a bit hectic for a couple weeks.  Had a small family emergency, then had some university work to do, so I didn't have much time to devote to this.  Hence the massive delay in getting the Diomedes 1.1 ready (which is complete, just needs the PCS2 work).  Not much progress on the Bellerophon either, but it's coming along.  Hopefully, there won't be any more significant delays.

Fear not, I haven't abandoned the project.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Kolgena on June 17, 2012, 01:04:45 am
RL takes priority over FS modding. Take your time.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: T-Man on June 17, 2012, 04:46:04 am
Aye no worries Aesaar; hope things wern't to bad. It's good of you to do it at all.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Vip on June 17, 2012, 06:56:27 am
RL takes priority over FS modding. Take your time.

BLASPHEMY! Modders should strive to please the community even at the cost of their lives :P

j/k, no pressure Aesaar, we'll wait however long it takes :)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (RLS: Diomedes, Chimera - IP: Bellerophon)
Post by: Alpha1 on June 24, 2012, 10:19:36 am
Great work!!! These Ships look beautiful -  i liked the old Diomedes, but this one looks more "military". Sometimes a bit "flat" Very Nice. The Chimera - Wonderful. I haven't seen a detail i dont like! Perfect!
Tested the ships in: The Plunder, Darkest Hour and Aristeia.

in Darkest Hour, the engins bug is still there, but i was able to play the mission without any more errors.

 
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI UPDATE
Post by: Aesaar on September 08, 2012, 02:17:29 pm
So after 3 months of inactivity, I'm back to work on the Fleet.

First off, the Diomedes 1.1 is complete.  Check the first post for a download.  Be sure to delete the original 1.0 and all its files.

Next up, the Bellerophon.  This thing was very irritating.  I couldn't figure out a way to make the pointy front section look right, so I finally just decided to do this:

http://p3d.in/WYKmw

Any features it has in common with the Chimera are the same size
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: headdie on September 08, 2012, 02:27:54 pm
aside from the section around the lower front multipart that is a nice piece of modelling
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 08, 2012, 02:39:20 pm
Yes, in my haste to upload, I forgot to set smoothing properly.

EDIT: there, that should do it.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: An4ximandros on September 08, 2012, 02:50:16 pm
There seems to be a rogue bridging between the pipes, other than that is looks really nice, though I personally would increase the length of the pipe area. (and nice Hiigaran BCruiser-esque ship ;7)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: headdie on September 08, 2012, 03:05:37 pm
yes that's got it.

Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Klaustrophobia on September 08, 2012, 06:03:31 pm
i think it would look quite.... frail if the pipes were any longer.  i'd say it already does if it weren't for the crosspiece on the bottom. 
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Ryuseiken on September 08, 2012, 07:39:06 pm
Can't wait to see how it looks in-engine. Has anyone said whether or not these models will be incorporated into the next release?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Droid803 on September 08, 2012, 09:06:21 pm
They will if they're completed beforehand but I doubt they would delay release waiting for upgrades.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: SaltyWaffles on September 08, 2012, 09:22:58 pm
Excellent modelling. The new Diomedes looks great (and much more Terran in design). And the new Chimera...wow. So awesome, detailed, and appealing. Really feels like next-gen design/aesthetic/tech. Both models look very organized, neat, symmetrical, and efficient.



A few questions, though:
1) What's the deal with the "drones" version of the Diomedes?
2) Why do the Diomedes torpedo launchers shoot Piranhas instead of torpedoes (like the Eos, Supernova, etc)? Especially if the Diomedes has a good-sized fighter complement, it really shouldn't sacrifice some much-needed anti-ship firepower for a small and rather unneeded AA capability. And correct me if I'm wrong, but if Piranhas don't have tracking/homing, and they're fired vertically from the VLS launchers, won't that limit them to hitting targets directly above or below those launchers? There's already a bunch of STerPulse's there.
3) On the tables--some of the turrets are filled with "SterPulse" instead of "STerPulse"; no idea if this actually makes a difference, but I've noticed that tables can be a tad picky sometimes.
4) Why not replace the Terran Turret 2's with STerPulse's? The higher RoF and longer range (IIRC) makes it pretty decent at warhead interception (especially when dealing with Warhammer and Apocalypse spam), and it also doubles as good AA firepower and modest secondary anti-ship firepower as well. And with a good fighter complement, it could just leave the warhead interception duties to its own fighter cover if there are really that many warheads in the air.
5) Most of the applicable turrets are not set to fire in salvo mode, and the VLS launchers are only assigned weapons to two of their four firing points (unless I'm not understanding that tabling bit correctly).
6) Why is the turret rotation speed so slow? Maybe I've just never noticed what is actually the norm for turret rotation speeds, but 20 seconds for a 360-degree turn--when we're talking about a small turret designed for both point defense and supplamental anti-ship firepower--seems surprisingly sluggish.
7) Some of the turrets randomly have less health than others of the same type. There might be reasons behind this, but I couldn't see any at first glance.
8) Erm...why not replace a few of the AAAf's with anti-ship beams? For a huge corvette that has an impressively large fighter complement, it shouldn't need that much in the way of redundant point defenses. I tinkered around a bit, and found an interesting change might be to replace turrets 6 and 7 with TerSlashBlue's, to give the ship more fitting firepower for its size and expense. Turrets 4 and 5 are a bit too solitary over a large area for replacing them with anti-ship beams to be viable (the top-rear portion of the ship is actually surprisingly barren of turrets, come to think of it). I also swapped out the VLS launchers' munitions from Piranhas to Eos's, as it seemed more fitting and true to its description (IIRC, didn't it mention using torpedo launchers? Might be confusing it with something else).

I can see why it's not meant to replace the Deimos--it's too large and different to fit the same role and cost--but it does beg the question as to why Deimos corvettes still use the same weaponry and armor in WiH as they did in the NTF Rebellion in FS2. Okay, maybe I just want to see more VSlash and TerSlashBlue beams in use, and the TerSlash is something like 20+ years old at this point...


Though I wonder...why not replace the turrets on the dorsal portion of the Deimos with STerPulse's--or replace half of them with flak? Wasn't that the Deimos' one major weakness in AA coverage?

Sorry for the rambling. I love these models; I was blown away. Fantastic work, good sir! If you've got any grunt work that I may know how to do, I'd be happy to give it a shot. Regardless, take your time and enjoy what you do--with quality like this it's definitely more than worth the wait.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 08, 2012, 09:29:07 pm
I really hope to finish these before release.  Counter-intuitively, with my classes starting again, I should have more time to devote to this.  3d modelling does wonders for concentration in class, I've found.

I'm wary of setting a schedule (because we saw how that worked out over the summer), but I hope to have the Bellerophon and the two destroyers done by the end of the year.  No guarantees.

An4ximandros: The corvette is already a fair bit longer than the original model, which ended near the start of the engine section.  Klaustrophobia is also quite right about the pipes already looking frail without the crosspiece.  And yeah, Homeworld ship.  A WIP totally not for a possible campaign. :nervous:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: An4ximandros on September 08, 2012, 10:13:00 pm
Hmm, good point.

I'll just hope you make it look awesome with textures as always, do you have plans for the Hyperion? or is someone else making an HTL of that?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 08, 2012, 11:45:23 pm
If people really want the Hyperion first, I'll do it, but ATM I plan to do the Hyperion after the Titan.  While we don't see the destroyers as often, they're a lot more important to the story.  The curvy Titan will be quite interesting to do in this style.  A little nervous about them too, since they're the best looking ships in the Stratcomm fleet, and people love them. 

I've also been seeing serious texture distortion on the Titan.  I don't know if I'm the only one having this problem, but I find it annoying enough to bump the Hyperion back. 

Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: SaltyWaffles on September 08, 2012, 11:50:14 pm
If people really want the Hyperion first, I'll do it, but ATM I plan to do the Hyperion after the Titan.  While we don't see the destroyers as often, they're a lot more important to the story.  The curvy Titan will be quite interesting to do in this style.  A little nervous about them too, since they're the best looking ships in the Stratcomm fleet, and people love them. 

I've also been seeing serious texture distortion on the Titan.  I don't know if it's just me, but I find it annoying enough to bump the Hyperion back.

Well, best of luck to you.

Personally, I think the Hyperion has the most problems, and the Titan does already have a pretty popular design. Still, do what you like--that's the most important part.

Though I would love to see the Hyperion made to a smaller size--being twice the size of an Aeolus while having fewer turrets and worse coverage is a bit...well, not cost efficient at all. Not to mention that its hull strength is about the same, too; if you replaced the Aeolus' SGreens with SBlue's, I'd never bother with the Hyperion.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Ryuseiken on September 09, 2012, 12:17:26 am
I've always thought the design of the engines on the Titan looked weird as well, like two different ship engines were glued together. Is this intentional like the Raynor struts, where the segments are supposed to be interchangeable?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Scotty on September 09, 2012, 12:20:12 am
Quite honestly, if the Titan were just reskinned to look like the rest of the new ships, I would be very happy.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 09, 2012, 02:54:36 am
1) What's the deal with the "drones" version of the Diomedes?
There have been (a little more than) rumours of Tevs deploying old bombers such as Zeus and/or Medusa as drones in the future. The drone version made by Aesaar would just be a way to deploy them morer quickly, there is not indication yet that the BP team plan to use this version at all, or even if drone bombers are still on the plate at all. Still, it's a good thing to have there for other campaigns !

2) Why do the Diomedes torpedo launchers shoot Piranhas instead of torpedoes (like the Eos, Supernova, etc)? Especially if the Diomedes has a good-sized fighter complement, it really shouldn't sacrifice some much-needed anti-ship firepower for a small and rather unneeded AA capability. And correct me if I'm wrong, but if Piranhas don't have tracking/homing, and they're fired vertically from the VLS launchers, won't that limit them to hitting targets directly above or below those launchers? There's already a bunch of STerPulse's there.
Torpedoes are more expensive than Piranhas, and the Dio already has more anticap firepower than a Chimera as it is. You'll notice though that TBI's Dio has Supernova launchers instead of Piranha, hinting at the launchers accepting different types of missiles.

3) On the tables--some of the turrets are filled with "SterPulse" instead of "STerPulse"; no idea if this actually makes a difference, but I've noticed that tables can be a tad picky sometimes.
I do not think it is case-sensitive. If it is, debug (and even release IIRC) will yell at you pretty quickly anyway.

4) Why not replace the Terran Turret 2's with STerPulse's? The higher RoF and longer range (IIRC) makes it pretty decent at warhead interception (especially when dealing with Warhammer and Apocalypse spam), and it also doubles as good AA firepower and modest secondary anti-ship firepower as well. And with a good fighter complement, it could just leave the warhead interception duties to its own fighter cover if there are really that many warheads in the air.
Again, Pulse weapons are more expensive, and likely draw more energy than TT2s. And don't forget Pulse weapons have a FoF, making them utterly terrible at warhead interception. Always better to keep a few TT2s there.

8) Erm...why not replace a few of the AAAf's with anti-ship beams? For a huge corvette that has an impressively large fighter complement, it shouldn't need that much in the way of redundant point defenses. I tinkered around a bit, and found an interesting change might be to replace turrets 6 and 7 with TerSlashBlue's, to give the ship more fitting firepower for its size and expense. Turrets 4 and 5 are a bit too solitary over a large area for replacing them with anti-ship beams to be viable (the top-rear portion of the ship is actually surprisingly barren of turrets, come to think of it). I also swapped out the VLS launchers' munitions from Piranhas to Eos's, as it seemed more fitting and true to its description (IIRC, didn't it mention using torpedo launchers? Might be confusing it with something else).
wtf am I reading

Jeeze, you DO realize that the Dio alread has more firepower than a Chimera, right ? You DO realize that it is the single more powerful and versatile corvette-sized ship of the BP universe, right ? That thing is utterly overpowered, and you want to double its number of anticap beams ?

And yeah, no, the Dio doesn't have an "impressively large fighter complement", and it NEEDS its anti-fighter armament. Try to fly Uriel against a dio, and you'll notice pretty quickly that its anti-fighter defenses aren't all that impressive as it is. Wouldn't be an excellent idea to remove all those AAAf.

I can see why it's not meant to replace the Deimos--it's too large and different to fit the same role and cost--but it does beg the question as to why Deimos corvettes still use the same weaponry and armor in WiH as they did in the NTF Rebellion in FS2. Okay, maybe I just want to see more VSlash and TerSlashBlue beams in use, and the TerSlash is something like 20+ years old at this point...

Though I wonder...why not replace the turrets on the dorsal portion of the Deimos with STerPulse's--or replace half of them with flak? Wasn't that the Deimos' one major weakness in AA coverage?
As discussed about 875643289 times around here, you can't replace the beams of a Capella-era warship with newer beams. And no, they don't use the same armor, Deimos have active armor now just like every other warship, just not at the level of newer ships. And there have been Deimos deployed in Sol that were using some TT2s or Pulse weaponry, which are much easier to swap around and make work on old power grids than blue beams.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 09, 2012, 09:17:04 am
SaltyWaffles: I completely missed your post.  Sorry.  I'll probably be repeating some of what MatthTheGeek said.


A few questions, though:
1) What's the deal with the "drones" version of the Diomedes?

There have been (a little more than) rumours of Tevs deploying old bombers such as Zeus and/or Medusa as drones in the future. The drone version made by Aesaar would just be a way to deploy them morer quickly, there is not indication yet that the BP team plan to use this version at all, or even if drone bombers are still on the plate at all. Still, it's a good thing to have there for other campaigns !

Actually, I was specifically asked by General Battuta to make sure that there was a version with drone dockpoints.

Oh, ****, yes. Please maintain all the dockpoints from the original Diomedes, those are very important to some capabilities in R2 (external drone racks)


Quote
2) Why do the Diomedes torpedo launchers shoot Piranhas instead of torpedoes (like the Eos, Supernova, etc)? Especially if the Diomedes has a good-sized fighter complement, it really shouldn't sacrifice some much-needed anti-ship firepower for a small and rather unneeded AA capability. And correct me if I'm wrong, but if Piranhas don't have tracking/homing, and they're fired vertically from the VLS launchers, won't that limit them to hitting targets directly above or below those launchers? There's already a bunch of STerPulse's there.
Like Matt said, they can load Supernovas.  The Triteia in TBI has them loaded, for instance.  Honestly, I'd have preferred to make a whole new Piranha-like missile instead of the Piranha, but that wouldn't make this model drop-in.  The main reason it's loaded with Piranhas by default is that the original model was.  V1.0 had Supernovas, but they screwed up balance in Darkest Hour and Aristeia.


Quote
3) On the tables--some of the turrets are filled with "SterPulse" instead of "STerPulse"; no idea if this actually makes a difference, but I've noticed that tables can be a tad picky sometimes.
Tables aren't case-sensitive, fortunately.  HW2 would have probably crashed.   Temperamental, that game.


Quote
4) Why not replace the Terran Turret 2's with STerPulse's? The higher RoF and longer range (IIRC) makes it pretty decent at warhead interception (especially when dealing with Warhammer and Apocalypse spam), and it also doubles as good AA firepower and modest secondary anti-ship firepower as well. And with a good fighter complement, it could just leave the warhead interception duties to its own fighter cover if there are really that many warheads in the air.
The $FOF flag in the STerPulse entry makes it too innaccurate for torpedo interception at anything but really close range.  The TT2 doesn't have this problem.  They'll still try to do it, and they'll sometimes get lucky, but the TT2 is much more reliable.


Quote
5) Most of the applicable turrets are not set to fire in salvo mode, and the VLS launchers are only assigned weapons to two of their four firing points (unless I'm not understanding that tabling bit correctly).
Consistency.  The Titan's torpedo batteries have four banks for 8 tubes.  This launcher has half the tubes, so half the banks.  Honestly, I have no idea if it even makes a difference if both banks have the same weapon on infinite ammo capships.


Quote
6) Why is the turret rotation speed so slow? Maybe I've just never noticed what is actually the norm for turret rotation speeds, but 20 seconds for a 360-degree turn--when we're talking about a small turret designed for both point defense and supplamental anti-ship firepower--seems surprisingly sluggish.

7) Some of the turrets randomly have less health than others of the same type. There might be reasons behind this, but I couldn't see any at first glance.
Not changed from Sparta Diomedes table, but I confess I hadn't noticed.


Quote
8) Erm...why not replace a few of the AAAf's with anti-ship beams? For a huge corvette that has an impressively large fighter complement, it shouldn't need that much in the way of redundant point defenses. I tinkered around a bit, and found an interesting change might be to replace turrets 6 and 7 with TerSlashBlue's, to give the ship more fitting firepower for its size and expense. Turrets 4 and 5 are a bit too solitary over a large area for replacing them with anti-ship beams to be viable (the top-rear portion of the ship is actually surprisingly barren of turrets, come to think of it). I also swapped out the VLS launchers' munitions from Piranhas to Eos's, as it seemed more fitting and true to its description (IIRC, didn't it mention using torpedo launchers? Might be confusing it with something else).
Compare the size of the slashers to the size of the AAAfs. Also, the Diomedes is probably the most formidable non-destroyer ship in Sol.  Giving it beam firepower to rival the Raynor's broadside really isn't needed.  The torpedo launchers can already fire Supernovas.  I have no doubt they can fire Eos' as well.  When the team (or anyone else) wants that, they can change it in FRED.

Quote
I can see why it's not meant to replace the Deimos--it's too large and different to fit the same role and cost--but it does beg the question as to why Deimos corvettes still use the same weaponry and armor in WiH as they did in the NTF Rebellion in FS2. Okay, maybe I just want to see more VSlash and TerSlashBlue beams in use, and the TerSlash is something like 20+ years old at this point...

Though I wonder...why not replace the turrets on the dorsal portion of the Deimos with STerPulse's--or replace half of them with flak? Wasn't that the Deimos' one major weakness in AA coverage?
The reason Capella-era ships can't mount blue beams is because they draw more power than the reactors can practically support.  Maybe the Deimos could mount SBlues, but that's hardly an improvement over TerSlashes.  They do mount pulse cannons on occasion.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Droid803 on September 09, 2012, 02:38:51 pm
Quote
5) Most of the applicable turrets are not set to fire in salvo mode, and the VLS launchers are only assigned weapons to two of their four firing points (unless I'm not understanding that tabling bit correctly).
Consistency.  The Titan's torpedo batteries have four banks for 8 tubes.  This launcher has half the tubes, so half the banks.  Honestly, I have no idea if it even makes a difference if both banks have the same weapon on infinite ammo capships.
Actually, having one, two, or three weapons specified does nothing at all. Only the first specified weapon is used and it cycles through all the available firepoints.
Unless you have "use multiple guns", in which case it will act as if it had however many instances equipped, and they cycle through all the available firepoints - ie. two weapons will have twice the fire rate.
If you have "fixed firepoints", then the first weapon uses the first firepoint, etc.
If "salvo mode" is used, then the weapon fires out of all available firepoints simultaneously.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Col.Hornet on September 09, 2012, 03:37:20 pm
yay, now after your surgery, I will love the Bel (it was ugly as ..** in my opinion). I also approved your texturing pattern (less candy-looking then old ones with typhoon blue tilemap ( I can't remember it's number). I am very glad that You came back to work on this project. :) 
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Scotty on September 09, 2012, 03:43:50 pm
Salty, try to set up a Diomedes versus a Karuna, with both ships in optimal position.

The Diomedes rips the Karuna to shreds in about a minute, and finishes with over 50% health.

Now try it with the Diomedes coming in under the Karuna, which can't bring its main guns to bear.

The Diomedes tears the Karuna a new in about a minute, again, except this time it finishes with over 80% health.

The Diomedes is a scary ship.  They just suffer from consistent bad luck (and being on the wrong side of the fight from the protagonist).
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 09, 2012, 05:25:56 pm
The Diomedes is funny because it consistently suffers from the Worf Effect yet is still terrifying.  I'd really like to see one smacking a couple of Karunas around without getting destroyed in the process.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Dragon on September 09, 2012, 05:43:48 pm
You'll yet learn to fear the Diomedes in WiH2.
Actually, having one, two, or three weapons specified does nothing at all. Only the first specified weapon is used and it cycles through all the available firepoints.
I'm pretty sure that if you have 3 identical weapons in a turret, they'll fire in quick succession, similar to a swarm launch. I know they used to do that some time ago (3 TerSlashes on an Orion turret were often mentioned as a very cool looking example of this).
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Ryuseiken on September 09, 2012, 05:55:13 pm
Yeah the only time we see a Diomedes survive is I think in Artemis Station, where it IS carving up the Cormorant, but it's doing so alongside Steele's battlegroup so it's not that impressive a feat.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Kobrar44 on September 09, 2012, 07:00:32 pm
It is carving up everything everywhere it appears UNLESS it's stopped. Keep that in mind. Unexpeted Indus arrival or Eris reinforcements are the only things that somehow manage to neutralize it. Also, in the blade itself one diomedes survives.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Droid803 on September 09, 2012, 09:28:57 pm
You'll yet learn to fear the Diomedes in WiH2.
Actually, having one, two, or three weapons specified does nothing at all. Only the first specified weapon is used and it cycles through all the available firepoints.
I'm pretty sure that if you have 3 identical weapons in a turret, they'll fire in quick succession, similar to a swarm launch. I know they used to do that some time ago (3 TerSlashes on an Orion turret were often mentioned as a very cool looking example of this).
Yeah, I know that tri-terslash thing, it was pretty awesome when I figured it out making my 2nd mission in FRED, fooling around with the weapons editor. I think that only happens with beams, as I've stared at regular ones without "use multiple guns" and didn't see anything different from a single mount. With "use multiple guns" it definitely fires all the weapons in quick succession similar to burst fire mode w/ random delay due to random turret refire delay.

Yeah the only time we see a Diomedes survive is I think in Artemis Station, where it IS carving up the Cormorant, but it's doing so alongside Steele's battlegroup so it's not that impressive a feat.

You manage to kill the Triteia (consistently) in TBI?
I know it's possible, but its hard.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Ryuseiken on September 09, 2012, 10:26:06 pm
I know it's a beast of a ship, I'm just saying that due to the narrative it's lost every encounter it was in. There was not an equivalent of a Serkr strike which showcases how deadly they are by having a Dio hull something without you being able to stop it. Plus, unlike all those Deimos' every Dio that showed up blew up shortly thereafter instead of jumping out.

Though I wasn't counting TBI since I'd forgotten about it.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Hades on September 09, 2012, 10:26:54 pm
Aesaar, I like the Bell, my only problem is how the hull at the front is roundish but the hull at the back is boxy, it doesn't really flow together right, you know what I mean?

I didn't like this on the Chimera either.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 09, 2012, 11:15:33 pm
I know what you mean.  I don't really mind it, otherwise I wouldn't have built it this way, but I definitely know what you mean.

If you'd brought it up while I was on the Chimera, I'd have seriously considered doing something about it, but now, well...  The Bellerophon is the Chimera's big brother, sharing a clear design history, and as such, I don't want to make its appearance diverge to that degree without changing the Chimera too.  And I'm really sick of looking at the Chimera in Wings3d.  I'd say that Stratcomm's original Bellerophon also had a squarish back, but I haven't been shy about changing the original designs before, so that's a thin defense.  The best I can offer is that the Titan and Raynor won't do this.

I really, really hate dismissing valid criticism.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: SaltyWaffles on September 10, 2012, 12:16:08 am
Yeah the only time we see a Diomedes survive is I think in Artemis Station, where it IS carving up the Cormorant, but it's doing so alongside Steele's battlegroup so it's not that impressive a feat.

There's a Diomedes in that scene?

...

Okay, yeah. Not the best of impressions.

I thought those TerSlashBlue's were from the Atreus?

Either way, in that scene, the point is more along the lines of "Steele's battlegroup effortlessly swats aside a Karuna as it charges the de facto capital of Jupiter, with none of his ships even slowing down and most of them not even bothering to pay attention to it as it's skewered by a few auxiliary beams from a the Atreus and Imperieuse.

I'm not sure what seems more pointlessly suicidal---the Renjian's Leeroy Jeeeeeenkiiiiins into the 14th BG (even against a UEF equivalent, it would have been a quick and pointless suicide) or the Comorant's dashing (sideways?) charge into a state-of-the-art GTVA battlegroup in formation and in optimal firing position and range. Even for a desperate delaying action, did the Comorant's CO really think that any of Steele's ships would even have to slow down at all? At least the Nelson was trying straight for a ramming attack and had four Sanctus cruisers as a distraction...


Salty, try to set up a Diomedes versus a Karuna, with both ships in optimal position.

The Diomedes rips the Karuna to shreds in about a minute, and finishes with over 50% health.

Now try it with the Diomedes coming in under the Karuna, which can't bring its main guns to bear.

The Diomedes tears the Karuna a new in about a minute, again, except this time it finishes with over 80% health.

The Diomedes is a scary ship.  They just suffer from consistent bad luck (and being on the wrong side of the fight from the protagonist).

Okay, I'm a tad confused here---Aesar, a Diomedes has more anti-ship firepower than a Chimera?

Really?

Slash beams rarely do full damage, and it's a pretty narrow angle for a Diomedes to get all four of its slash beams even capable of firing on the same ship at all (at angles like this, they tend to be more inaccurate regardless).

A Chimera's 3 MBlue's do ~59,400 damage per salvo, which can fire once every 35 seconds. A TerSlashBlue has a refire time of 10 seconds. A Chimera has a much easier time of bringing maximum beam firepower to bear, as it just has to place the target vaguely forward of the ship.

And, of course, a Diomedes is larger than a Chimera by (IIRC) a big margin. And it's a newer design. And apparently significantly more expensive. Though come to think of it, a Chimera might actually be a better fit for eventually replacing the Deimos, as it has incredible AA capability, sufficiently flexible and quite powerful anti-ship firepower, and enough speed and durability to at least be on par with the Deimos. Though being smaller and cheaper, they're still kind of distinct in terms of role and usage.

Anyway: the Diomedes is a big ship, and seemingly expensive. I would hope that its collective firepower would be more than an average Chimera's, given that said firepower can rarely be brought to bear on the same target. The ship feels more like a pocket destroyer or a battlecruiser than a typical corvette, though it still has a puzzlingly small anti-ship armament for its size, era, and cost. 
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: The E on September 10, 2012, 01:45:50 am
You keep calling the antiship armament "puzzlingly small", when it can be demonstrated that it isn't. The fact that slash beams are not as immediately effective as direct-fire beams is irrelevant when the ship in question can bring 2 or even all 4 to bear on a target.

The Diomedes is a very well-rounded vessel that can destroy all ships smaller or as large as itself, and pose a severe threat to larger vessels. Sure, it could be better, but that is true for every ship everywhere ever.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 10, 2012, 02:38:37 am
I'm not sure what seems more pointlessly suicidal---the Renjian's Leeroy Jeeeeeenkiiiiins into the 14th BG (even against a UEF equivalent, it would have been a quick and pointless suicide) or the Comorant's dashing (sideways?) charge into a state-of-the-art GTVA battlegroup in formation and in optimal firing position and range.
Don't be ridiculous, the Cormorant didn't charge alone. It was already engaged for a while when the cutscene starts. There was at least a Sanctus with it, and probably more ships already reduced to scrap metal before you get to see it.

Okay, I'm a tad confused here---Aesar, a Diomedes has more anti-ship firepower than a Chimera?

Really?
Yes, really. You might want to have a look at my comments (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/GTCv_Diomedes) (the last ones) which lists the hard numbers.

Do not dismiss the TerSlashBlue simply because it's a slash beam. Contrary to standard TerSlashes and, even much worse, LTerSlashes, the TerSlashBlues have a slow enough slash speed that they consistently do 100% damage on a sweep, or very close to, especially on large targets.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: headdie on September 10, 2012, 02:41:34 am
The thing about Chimera/Bellerophon and the fact that they can bring massive fire power to a target easier but

Chimera has 566 * 3 = 1668 sustained fire-power all concentrated forward
Bellerophon has (556 * 2) + 1100 = 2212 sustained fire-power all concentrated forward
Diomedes has 538 * 4 = 2152 sustained fire-power distributed over multiple fire arcs

Chimera/Bellerophon both are easier to achieve their full fire potential but are scary vulnerable when not on the offensive while the Diomedes is better able to defend itself and engage multiple targets when on the offensive.  As for slasher type beams while they are a wild card in terms of damage have the advantage of a good chance of destroying multiple subsystems and weapons emplacements.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 10, 2012, 08:13:26 am
Okay, I'm a tad confused here---Aesar, a Diomedes has more anti-ship firepower than a Chimera?

Really?

Slash beams rarely do full damage, and it's a pretty narrow angle for a Diomedes to get all four of its slash beams even capable of firing on the same ship at all (at angles like this, they tend to be more inaccurate regardless).

A Chimera's 3 MBlue's do ~59,400 damage per salvo, which can fire once every 35 seconds. A TerSlashBlue has a refire time of 10 seconds. A Chimera has a much easier time of bringing maximum beam firepower to bear, as it just has to place the target vaguely forward of the ship.

And, of course, a Diomedes is larger than a Chimera by (IIRC) a big margin. And it's a newer design. And apparently significantly more expensive. Though come to think of it, a Chimera might actually be a better fit for eventually replacing the Deimos, as it has incredible AA capability, sufficiently flexible and quite powerful anti-ship firepower, and enough speed and durability to at least be on par with the Deimos. Though being smaller and cheaper, they're still kind of distinct in terms of role and usage.

Anyway: the Diomedes is a big ship, and seemingly expensive. I would hope that its collective firepower would be more than an average Chimera's, given that said firepower can rarely be brought to bear on the same target. The ship feels more like a pocket destroyer or a battlecruiser than a typical corvette, though it still has a puzzlingly small anti-ship armament for its size, era, and cost.

Sustained damage on an MBlue is 566.  The Chimera has 3.  Total sustained DPS is 1696.  Sustained damage from a TerSlashBlue is 538.   The Diomedes has 4.  Total sustained DPS is 2152 for a target above.  In what world is that not more firepower?

EDIT: The E and headdie beat me to it.

The Slashers on the Diomedes have a field of fire of 180 degrees.  The Chimera's beams have a field of fire of 60.  So not only does the Diomedes have more firepower, it can bring it to bear more easily.  Its beam cannons are also very well covered by point defense weapons, something which isn't really true of the Chimera or the Bellerophon.  This is in addition to its fighter bay.  The TerSlashBlue is also a good deal smaller than the MBlue.  Close to the SBlue in size.

Also, this is something you only really notice when you fly a Diomedes and then a Chimera: If you're moving towards an enemy, the Chimera's beams are really easy to hit, but you can't turn away because you need to point at the enemy to fire.  The Diomedes doesn't have this problem at all.


By the way, here are the numbers for the turn speeds: Chimera: 80.0, 82.0, 82.0, Diomedes: 48.0, 52.0, 42.0.

So not only does the Diomedes have better fields of fire for its beams, it can turn nearly twice as fast to bring them to bear.

While I'm at it, here's the Karuna: 100.0, 100.0, 80.0.

I've flown a Diomedes against a pair of Karunas and a Narayana and come out on top with ~20-15% health left, starting from 10km away, on insane with everyone running bp2-colonel AI.  Really, it's as simple as getting underneath.


Aaand we're back to tables again.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: LordPomposity on September 10, 2012, 08:31:03 am
I've flown a Diomedes against a pair of Karunas and a Narayana and come out on top with ~20% health left, starting from 10km away, on insane with everyone running bp2-colonel AI.  Really, it's as simple as getting underneath.
Player vs. AI isn't really a fair way of judging a ship's effectiveness, as the AI is too stupid to bring its own fire arcs to bear, let alone maneuver to stop you from doing the same.

EDIT: Also, insane difficulty grants a huge advantage to the Diomedes, as the difficulty setting affects the fire rate of point defenses, but not anti-ship weapons. The UEF ships are far more dependent on their torpedoes than the Diomedes is.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 10, 2012, 08:50:19 am
Insane is also the only difficulty that doesn't give the player magical cheat buffs, so it is actually the most adapted for those kind of tests.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 10, 2012, 11:17:11 am
Player vs. AI isn't really a fair way of judging a ship's effectiveness, as the AI is too stupid to bring its own fire arcs to bear, let alone maneuver to stop you from doing the same.

EDIT: Also, insane difficulty grants a huge advantage to the Diomedes, as the difficulty setting affects the fire rate of point defenses, but not anti-ship weapons. The UEF ships are far more dependent on their torpedoes than the Diomedes is.
I was under the impression that Fury's AI got rid of difficulty-based rate of fire, which is why Standard Flak is so OP now.

I would prefer to run these tests with other people.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Scotty on September 10, 2012, 11:28:47 am
Player-cheats are things like number of turrets that actually fire at you, damage reduction, and the like.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 10, 2012, 12:37:17 pm
I was under the impression that Fury's AI got rid of difficulty-based rate of fire, which is why Standard Flak is so OP now.

I would prefer to run these tests with other people.
No, it gave more control over said rates of fire and removed the fact that turrets with the same weapons fired awfully slower than fighters. Nothing prevents you to make all the values the same on all difficulties, but it is not what BP's AI does.


EDIT: btw,
The Diomedes is funny because it consistently suffers from the Worf Effect yet is still terrifying.  I'd really like to see one smacking a couple of Karunas around without getting destroyed in the process.
You are welcome to try out my coop version of Post Meridian, I'm sure you'd love it :p
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: An4ximandros on September 10, 2012, 03:11:49 pm
Quick, someone make a one shot mission a la blade itself and show us the ill fated defense of a station during the Jovian/Earth blitz owned by a Dio ;7

I'm up for trying but it will take me some time.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Hades on September 10, 2012, 03:11:59 pm
I know what you mean.  I don't really mind it, otherwise I wouldn't have built it this way, but I definitely know what you mean.

If you'd brought it up while I was on the Chimera, I'd have seriously considered doing something about it, but now, well...  The Bellerophon is the Chimera's big brother, sharing a clear design history, and as such, I don't want to make its appearance diverge to that degree without changing the Chimera too.  And I'm really sick of looking at the Chimera in Wings3d.  I'd say that Stratcomm's original Bellerophon also had a squarish back, but I haven't been shy about changing the original designs before, so that's a thin defense.  The best I can offer is that the Titan and Raynor won't do this.

I really, really hate dismissing valid criticism.
I understand. I wasn't around when the Chimera was being made and only saw it after it had been finished, sadly. :(
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: LordPomposity on September 11, 2012, 09:19:32 am
Insane is also the only difficulty that doesn't give the player magical cheat buffs, so it is actually the most adapted for those kind of tests.
Good point. AI vs. AI is the best way to do it, although there's a lot this doesn't take into account.
You manage to kill the Triteia (consistently) in TBI?
I know it's possible, but its hard.
If you allow the GTVA marines to capture the station, the Triteia will fight to the death trying to defend it.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Delta_V on September 11, 2012, 09:24:25 pm
Been a while since I've stopped in here, and I must say, the new Diomedes and Chimera look amazing!

However, something just seems... off with the proportions of the Bellerophon.  The engine section seems massive in comparison with the front half, and it makes the model look back-heavy.  Other than that, I love the direction you've taken with the TEI ships and can't wait to see what you do with the destroyers.

edit: I think it might just be the orthographic projection messing with me.  Considering I spent last semester in an engineering graphics class, I should be used to it, but, well, it's been a long summer.

Also, both of the Diomedes v1.1 models have the width set to over 1300 meters (the v1.0 models had it set to somewhere around 400).  I don't know if will cause issues in game or not, but I thought I'd point it out.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: bfobar on September 12, 2012, 12:36:46 pm
Hey I noticed something odd when testing the diomedes v1.1, and I was wondering if anybody can confirm: The bottom rear sterpulse turret model isn't rotating. The rest do just fine, but it just sits there facing forward while shooting sideways. Is it just me?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 12, 2012, 05:29:32 pm
bfobar: Ok, try this table (http://www.mediafire.com/?cnindeujqrnm5ba), see if that solves the problem. 

Keep in mind that it is perfectly possible for turret weapons to shoot off of the barrel's centerline (like sideways).  The "fire down normals" flag should solve this problem, but I'm told it's bugged, so I didn't add it.

Delta_V: The Bellerophon is a fair bit bigger at the back than the old model is.  To compare, if the two were lined up side by side with their prows touching a wall, the back of the old model would reach slightly behind where the new model's engine section starts.  The old one's wings are also a bit smaller.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: bfobar on September 12, 2012, 07:21:27 pm
ok I'll test it tonight with the stock table and the blue planet mod and that table too. It just struck me as odd that it was just one of the turrets. I'll report back if I notice any patterns. Is there a link for the "fire down normals" bug thread? I think I was using that on the turrets in my custom table.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: bfobar on September 12, 2012, 11:49:54 pm
I don't think its the tables. I think its something in the POF. I am still learning here, but when I change from the nodrone version to the drone version, the third turret on the bottom works normally. Also, the path on the nodrone version looks weird...not like the paths for the other turrets. Also, on the drone version, the forward bottom turret picks up this same problem.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 13, 2012, 05:56:59 pm
Yeah, you're probably right.  I've just identified another set of issues.  First there's what Delta_V mentioned, with width and whole model radius being completely off.  Then there's the fact that for some reason, the LODs and debris are offset a good hundred meters back.

I can't reproduce your problem, but I'm probably going to have to rebuild the .pof anyway, so maybe I'll solve it along the way.  I'll handle it this weekend.  At least I saved the .blend file this time, so I won't have to redo the whole object naming, smoothing and parenting again.

Aren't I just awesome at quality control?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: bfobar on September 14, 2012, 10:14:58 am
Thats what we're for!
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Col.Hornet on September 15, 2012, 03:41:09 pm
I have a question about Diomedes 1.1. Is it possible to change the model radius, because it is too big in my opinion (just like in new Karuna), and annoys me a lot. AI is almost unable to attack enemy without waypoints, because ship turns away from enemy, while still being far far away :banghead: I have new Diomedes in my mod, but I need set the radius just like in 1.0 one.

#Sorry for my language mistakes, if there are any xD
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Scotty on September 15, 2012, 03:58:14 pm
You should probably always be using waypoints when dealing with anything larger than freighters.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 15, 2012, 06:32:13 pm
Col. Hornet: Like I said two posts above yours, I screwed up the .pof.  I'm working on it as I write this post, but I'll probably be releasing the fix tomorrow or Monday.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Col.Hornet on September 16, 2012, 02:31:54 am
Oo, my fault, sorry. I will wait then :) No need to hurry.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: bfobar on September 16, 2012, 11:44:05 am
BTW Aesaar, In my other thread you mentioned making your texture .psd available for the diomedes? Is that still cool?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Col.Hornet on September 17, 2012, 01:02:33 pm
Oach, I almost forgot... Aesaar, would You like to make the second version of the texture :)? Once I had a green Diomedes(I changed only stripes and main beams , but the shine map didn't work after re-color).
It looked like this
 (http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab206/Karolisuaf/th_diomedes_dronegreen.jpg) (http://s864.photobucket.com/albums/ab206/Karolisuaf/?action=view&current=diomedes_dronegreen.jpg)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 17, 2012, 02:18:34 pm
Fixed version download added to first post.  Replacing previous tables is not necessary.

Also added the .psd files for the main, glow, lod, and debris textures.  They're a bit of a mess because many layers aren't named.  I will not provide support for their use.  Terms of use are the same as the model itself.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: bfobar on September 17, 2012, 03:18:42 pm
Thank you sir! I will fiddle with this when I get home and see how the turrets act now, and I will pointedly not bother you with the .psd files.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 08-09-12)
Post by: Col.Hornet on September 17, 2012, 04:36:34 pm
Cool, now everything works fine :) I will make a good use of it.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 18, 2012, 01:23:34 pm
Alright, another model update.  Barring further suggestions, I'm almost ready to begin UV mapping, so I'm again calling for feedback on the mesh.

http://p3d.in/pITeq

Notice I've added a small utility hangar to the top, right behind the bridge.  This isn't meant to have any gameplay purpose whatsoever.  It is not a fighterbay, but rather where I'd expect shuttles and such to dock.  I'm not sure about it, so I thought I'd ask you guys what you think.

Places I'm not satisfied with are large flat areas on top and bottom of wings and directly forward of the top front turret.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Col.Hornet on September 18, 2012, 02:15:06 pm
Quote
Notice I've added a small utility hangar to the top, right behind the bridge.  This isn't meant to have any gameplay purpose whatsoever.  It is not a fighterbay, but rather where I'd expect shuttles and such to dock.  I'm not sure about it, so I thought I'd ask you guys what you think.


I like this idea. Even if it's not able to be used by fighters, it always gives more possibilities for mission designing.

How about adding some "armour plates" details on the bottom of the wings? Something like You did on the front section of the hull

EDIT:
Here is a little suggestion about front hull section. Additional armour plates near the beam cannons (instead of these ribs)
(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab206/Karolisuaf/th_bellidea.jpg) (http://s864.photobucket.com/albums/ab206/Karolisuaf/?action=view&current=bellidea.jpg)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: The E on September 18, 2012, 02:18:53 pm
I like this kind of incidental detail as well.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: crizza on September 18, 2012, 02:31:28 pm
I like it :)
Is there a Perseus modelled into the hangar?  :wtf:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: QuakeIV on September 18, 2012, 04:49:19 pm
Those I suppose projections sticking out of the back of the ship seem to be really big, it kinda messes up the front profile of the ship if you ask me.  It seemed like one of the selling points of these shock jump ships was a low forward profile and an overall longer design to compensate for the lack of internal area, to make it harder for its prey to score a hit.

Perhaps shorten the projections a bit?  They just look weird to me at their current size.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: crizza on September 18, 2012, 07:19:33 pm
I guess...after redownloading the Diomedes, I'm the only one who has only the Diomedes with drones in Fred? -.-
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Black Wolf on September 18, 2012, 08:54:51 pm
Notice I've added a small utility hangar to the top, right behind the bridge.  This isn't meant to have any gameplay purpose whatsoever.  It is not a fighterbay, but rather where I'd expect shuttles and such to dock.  I'm not sure about it, so I thought I'd ask you guys what you think.
I think you should scale it for this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=81207.0) and make it functional within the pof, but I may be slightly biased there. ;) NB: Those of us on mobiles and netbooks can't access p3d - can someone post some pictures?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Scotty on September 18, 2012, 09:14:41 pm
I guess...after redownloading the Diomedes, I'm the only one who has only the Diomedes with drones in Fred? -.-

IIRC the newest downloads replace the old Diomedes entirely, including the name, and relegate the old Diomedes to Diomedes#Old.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: crizza on September 18, 2012, 09:17:30 pm
I guess...after redownloading the Diomedes, I'm the only one who has only the Diomedes with drones in Fred? -.-

IIRC the newest downloads replace the old Diomedes entirely, including the name, and relegate the old Diomedes to Diomedes#Old.
Sry, but the only Diomedes I have in Fred is Diomedes#Drones...that's odd...
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: bfobar on September 18, 2012, 10:19:26 pm
I love the little bay in the back. In fact, if it isn't too much trouble, I would suggest bringing it up a bit so that it isn't recessed into the main hull. Besides being able to see it better, I think if you wanted to script anything flying into or out of it, it would be less likely to get snagged. It reminds me of the little single helicopter bay on the back of some navy destroyers. You could even do a little spaceship helipad on the texture there with landing lights, were you so inclined.

Directly forward of the top turret, maybe add some sort of heat spreader looking thing that makes that BBlue look like it has more bulk to it than the two MBlues? The old Bellerphon model always bothered me with that. It was so symmetrical with the beams, but that center beam was so much more powerful. I noticed that you already beefed up its beam emitter.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 19, 2012, 12:48:07 am
Wat.

1) The only thing that has a HBlue is the Raynor, and currently is beam dish is exactly similar to all the other beam dishes.

2) The Chimera's beams are all MBlues. The centre beam is exactly the same as the two others.

I think you've been mixing up all the names.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: The E on September 19, 2012, 01:05:57 am
Notice I've added a small utility hangar to the top, right behind the bridge.  This isn't meant to have any gameplay purpose whatsoever.  It is not a fighterbay, but rather where I'd expect shuttles and such to dock.  I'm not sure about it, so I thought I'd ask you guys what you think.
I think you should scale it for this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=81207.0) and make it functional within the pof, but I may be slightly biased there. ;) NB: Those of us on mobiles and netbooks can't access p3d - can someone post some pictures?

All of my yes (Because we're using that Shuttle in BP)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 19, 2012, 10:50:57 am
Is there a Perseus modelled into the hangar?  :wtf:
Yes, only for scale purposes.

Sry, but the only Diomedes I have in Fred is Diomedes#Drones...that's odd...
That is odd.  Do you get errors if you open up TBI, Darkest Hour, or Aristeia?

I think you should scale it for this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=81207.0) and make it functional within the pof, but I may be slightly biased there. ;)
Absolutely.  I've already replaced the Hermes with your shuttle in What Binds Us and Ceremony.  I'll also take a few pictures when I get back to my other computer, since this one doesn't have Kerkythea on it.

Perhaps shorten the projections a bit?  They just look weird to me at their current size.
I could try it.  I'll put what I've got now and a shorter-winged version and put it up for a vote.

bfobar: I'll see what I can do.

Col. Hornet: Armor plates could definitely work up front.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: crizza on September 19, 2012, 01:04:04 pm
Heres the log:


[attachment removed and sold on the black market]
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 19, 2012, 02:01:15 pm
Yeah, for some reason, it can't find the standard Diomedes in your tables.  I do not know why this is.

Try redownloading.  The version before the one I released this Monday had a lot of issues.  I don't know if the table was the issue, but I made another anyway.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: crizza on September 19, 2012, 02:23:21 pm
I downloaded the whole thing just yesterday....
I have a ship table in the table folder, but don't lnow why I added this...


[attachment removed and sold on the black market]
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: bfobar on September 19, 2012, 02:34:17 pm
The old table made my freespace grab its head and scream. I built a new one using your new table entries on the drone version and pasted them into the nodrone one, and canned the old one. Works great now. (I am testing this as a stand alone without the blue planet mod and with altered guns, so it might just be me.)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: bfobar on September 19, 2012, 02:46:44 pm
Wat.

1) The only thing that has a HBlue is the Raynor, and currently is beam dish is exactly similar to all the other beam dishes.

2) The Chimera's beams are all MBlues. The centre beam is exactly the same as the two others.

I think you've been mixing up all the names.

You are correct sir! That will teach me to post while working. I went back and edited BBlue and Bellerphon into the original post.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 19, 2012, 03:29:30 pm
I downloaded the whole thing just yesterday....
I have a ship table in the table folder, but don't lnow why I added this...

The Diomedes isn't in there.  That's the problem.  The standard Diomedes in Diomedes-shp.tbm is a +nocreate entry, so it requires the original bp2-shp.tbm entry, which isn't in yours.  Delete your bp2-shp.tbm, and it should work fine.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: crizza on September 19, 2012, 03:41:18 pm
As of now I try to figure out, why I have this table in the first place^^
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 19, 2012, 03:45:04 pm
Probably because Dio 1.0 required you to delete the original entry from bp2-shp.tbm because the way I went about it was stupid.

So yes, it's still my fault.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: crizza on September 19, 2012, 03:50:23 pm
Dude...don't know, the table is gone, the Diomedes is happily killing stuff again, so everythings fine^^
But I wonder...is there a mission where a Diomodes would be better suited in the vanilla FS2 campaign?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: SpardaSon21 on September 19, 2012, 06:29:24 pm
The Diomedes does everything a Deimos does, but better.  I'm not sure there isn't a mission in vanilla FS2 that wouldn't be easier if a Diomedes were on your side instead of a Deimos.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Dragon on September 19, 2012, 06:36:23 pm
Diomedes has poor forward firepower. That's about the only thing Deimos does better, as Diomedes has a big blind zone in front of it's prow.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 19, 2012, 08:11:33 pm
It's got a bigger blind spot below it.  Not that much of an issue, since the Diomedes turns very quickly for a ship of its size.  Twice as fast as a Karuna or a Deimos.  Faster than a Sanctus, even.


Screenshots for Black Wolf and others who can't access p3d:

http://imageshack.us/a/img688/7972/bellerophon01.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img17/561/bellerophon02.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img52/6497/bellerophon03.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img705/6853/bellerophon04.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img854/4010/bellerophon05.png

The model has not changed from the p3d link.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: SaltyWaffles on September 20, 2012, 09:56:15 am
It's got a bigger blind spot below it.  Not that much of an issue, since the Diomedes turns very quickly for a ship of its size.  Twice as fast as a Karuna or a Deimos.  Faster than a Sanctus, even.


Screenshots for Black Wolf and others who can't access p3d:

http://imageshack.us/a/img688/7972/bellerophon01.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img17/561/bellerophon02.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img52/6497/bellerophon03.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img705/6853/bellerophon04.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img854/4010/bellerophon05.png

The model has not changed from the p3d link.

Looks amazing! Very crisp, a great level of detail, and a 'practical beauty' feel to it.

Only two questions to air:
1) The bean cannon emitters (at the front); is them sticking out ahead of their armored 'holes' intentional? It kind of seems like an unnecessarily risky placement.

2) The rear protrusions near the engines...it just feels a bit jarring. They look more like flaps, and for that kind of scale, design, and aesthetic, it just feels all kinds of off. Especially for the Bellerophon, which was always a bit beefier in stature than the Chimera. 


EDIT: Just noticed my 'bean cannon' typo, but I was so amused at the fail that I decided to leave it in for ****s and giggles.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 20, 2012, 10:16:31 am
1) Yes, it's intentional.  Maybe they're more vulnerable, but they look better that way, I think.

2) They're for visual interest.  A simple square cutoff for the engines wouldn't look good.  In keeping with my ongoing "lets add Homeworld visual style to everything" theme, the flaps are inspired by the Taiidan Heavy Cruiser and Carrier.  And like I said to Hades, because the Bellerophon and Chimera are so closely related, I don't like changing design elements they share on one without changing the other as well.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: crizza on September 20, 2012, 10:17:13 am
Three words: Rule of cool ;)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Scotty on September 20, 2012, 11:20:45 am
I can actually see how the flaps would be helpful.  They'll make slinging things like paveways into the engines significantly more difficult from anywhere that isn't directly aft.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Light on September 20, 2012, 02:15:33 pm
I have a question. Can all five of those dorsal and ventral turrets hit a target approaching from the angle shown below?

(http://imageshack.us/a/img94/7413/gtcvbellerophoncap1.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/gtcvbellerophoncap1.png/)

The reason I am asking is that a lot of in game multi-part turrets I have seen, while capable of elevating to 90 degrees, are unable to depress below 0 degrees. To me that seems like a significant disadvantage in a three dimensional combat environment. In contrast many real world naval gun mounts and turrets were or are capable of depressing below 0 degrees elevation for engaging close range surface targets and low flying aircraft and missiles.

Here are some real examples listed by size largest to smallest.

Gun:6"/47DP (15.2 cm) Mark 16
Elevation:   -5 / +78 degrees

Gun: 130 mm/70 (5.1") AK-130
Elevation: -12 / +80 degrees

Gun: 5"/54 (12.7 cm) Mark 42
Elevation: -15 / +85 degrees

Gun: 5"/38 (12.7 cm) Mark 12
Elevation: -15 / +85 degrees

Gun:100 mm/70 (3.9") AK-100
Elevation: -10 / +85 degrees

Gun: 100 mm/55 (3.9") Model 1968-II
Elevation:-5 / +80 degrees

Gun: 76 mm/62 (3") Compact
Elevation: -15 / +85 degrees

Gun: 57 mm/70 (2.25") SAK Marks 1, 2 and 3
Elevation: Mark 1:  -10 / +78 degrees, Mark 2:  -10 / +75 degrees, Mark 3:  -10 / +77 degrees

Gun: Bofors 40 mm/70
Elevation: Model 1948:  -5 / +90 degrees, Sea Trinity and Mark 3: -20 / +80 degrees

Gun: 30 mm/54 (1.2") AO-18 Gun
Elevation: AK-630:  -12 / +88 degrees, AK-306:  -12 / +85 degrees, AK-630M1-2:  -25 / +90 degrees

Gun: 30 mm/77 (1.2") Goalkeeper SGE-30
Elevation: -25 / +85 degrees

Gun: 20 mm Phalanx Close-in Weapon System (CIWS)
Elevation: Block 0:  -10 / +80 degrees, Block 1:  -20 / +80 degrees, Block 1B:  -25 / +85 degrees
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on September 20, 2012, 02:31:26 pm
That's because real-world naval ships can't roll. Or at least, it is strongly unadvised :p

Those multipart are LTerPulse, mainly intended for engaging bombs and fighters. It is more important to have wide coverage than to be able to point them all on a single target.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 20, 2012, 06:23:38 pm
Because they won't have the fire down normals flag, probably yes.  Without that flag, the weapon can fire off the barrel centerline.

In addition, at that angle, you'd also come under fire from two AAAfs and 3 TT2s.  Directly above is probably the only more suicidal approach.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: bfobar on September 20, 2012, 10:39:38 pm
I figured that the most suicidal would be head on with the Bellerophon firing at a target directly behind you...
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: QuakeIV on September 21, 2012, 02:57:44 pm
I figured that the most suicidal would be head on with the Bellerophon firing at a target directly behind you...

I'd agree with that being the most suicidal.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Droid803 on September 21, 2012, 05:17:27 pm
Naw, it's not suicidal you'd just have to avoid the beams to not get hit.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: headdie on September 21, 2012, 05:19:07 pm
Naw, it's not suicidal you'd just have to avoid the beams to not get hit.

just had a flashback to the early nebula mission with the Actium
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: QuakeIV on September 21, 2012, 06:15:34 pm
Naw, it's not suicidal you'd just have to avoid the beams to not get hit.

 :nod:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Dragon on September 21, 2012, 06:27:02 pm
In fact, front is the best approach angle for a fighter or bomber going against the Bellerophon. Those beams aren't slashers, so you're pretty safe in dead center between those beams.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Crybertrance on September 22, 2012, 05:34:30 am
...so you're pretty safe in dead center between those beams.

It'd make for one hell of a bombing run though ;)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: crizza on September 22, 2012, 07:16:13 am
Are they like mjolnir beams? Just shooting at where the ship faces?
If not...good luck.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on September 22, 2012, 08:34:08 pm
They're anti-capship beams. They can't target fighters.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Klaustrophobia on September 22, 2012, 11:54:15 pm
his point was they aren't always (rarely in fact) going to be shooting directly down the boresight, which would be the only case where getting in the middle of them is safe.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on September 23, 2012, 12:15:06 am
Beam cannons tend to have a FOV of 60 or 90 unless they're anti-fighter or slash beams, which usually get 180.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Mars on October 04, 2012, 04:20:08 pm
This might be way too late to mention, but now that I've upgraded to the new Diomedes, the Valarie now reliably creams the Indus during Darkest Hour. Literally the only way I've found of preventing this is by cheating the Indus to be invulnerable.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: General Battuta on October 04, 2012, 04:31:02 pm
!!!

We'll get on checking this out right now.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 04, 2012, 05:02:18 pm
The Indus was down to 1% when I played through with it, though I didn't think to mention it at the time. Makes Simms' boasting rather empty.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Mars on October 04, 2012, 05:07:28 pm
My first play through the Valarie was at 70-something percent hull when the Indus went down.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 04, 2012, 05:41:26 pm
Hmm, that is a problem.  I could add something behind the beam cannons to prevent them from covering the back of the ship.  The old model had a fat midsection which prevented this from happening most of the time.  If the shudder idea goes forward, they could, in their folded position, be used to block the area behind the beams.

A simple FOV reduction of the back pair of beam cannons to, say, 160 might work as well.

I hadn't noticed this in my playtests, but that's probably because I set a wing of Uriels to spawn before the Indus arrives with orders to disarm the ship.  I really need to do these on a vanilla version of the campaign.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Droid803 on October 04, 2012, 05:48:19 pm
I hadn't noticed this in my playtests, but that's probably because I set a wing of Uriels to spawn before the Indus arrives with orders to disarm the ship.  I really need to do these on a vanilla version of the campaign.

why now, just one wing of uriels would NEVER affect balance of a mission.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Mars on October 04, 2012, 05:49:58 pm
IDK if anything drastic or permanent really needs to be done. If the Valarie was set to fly in a straighter line, I don't think the cannons could engage. What's happening (from what I can see) is that the fore section of the ship turns up when the Indus arrives, so the Indus ends up being at a relatively high angle compared to the Valarie (roughly 20 degrees or so)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 04, 2012, 05:50:43 pm
why now, just one wing of uriels would NEVER affect balance of a mission.  :rolleyes:

Absolute end of the mission.  I added them because I needed a real reason for why the Valerie would stop shooting at Rheza and why it wouldn't turn and kill the Indus like what's happening here.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: SaltyWaffles on October 04, 2012, 05:51:42 pm
This might be way too late to mention, but now that I've upgraded to the new Diomedes, the Valarie now reliably creams the Indus during Darkest Hour. Literally the only way I've found of preventing this is by cheating the Indus to be invulnerable.

Really? What difficulties was this on?

My recent playthroughs had the Indus win fairly handily.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Mars on October 04, 2012, 06:20:41 pm
Medium difficulty 30fps average . What difficulty were you on, and how was your framerate Salty?

Difficulty shouldn't effect beams much.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 04, 2012, 10:41:31 pm
So Battuta, being completely and utterly awesome, wrote up a new tech description for the Diomedes:


   Conceptualized early in the Threat Exigency Initiative warship program, the Diomedes-class strike corvette was shaped by the necessities of two worlds: the tactical realities of the post-Capella battlefield and the political turmoil of a Fleet in crisis.

   GTVA designers conceived the Chimera and Bellerophon-class corvettes hand in hand with new doctrines of of massive force application. These designs were intentionally overspecialized to neutralize Shivan destroyers and juggernauts with beam alpha strikes. Strike craft support, aggressive subspace maneuvering, and sheer shock would, it was argued, allow the Chimera and Bellerophon to outrun their own design weaknesses.

   But more conservative factions of the GTVA military agitated for a less specialized next-generation design, a successor to and improvement upon the still-young Deimos corvette. Politically, they needed a warship that would fit the operational profile of line as well as elite units, but they also offered compelling tactical reasoning. Agile, aggressive combatants lacked the staying power for prolonged defensive operations at hardpoints, nodes, or convoys. A cheaper, more all-round design could supplement Deimos production with a powerful corvette leader or a supporting element to cover the flanks of destroyers or sister corvettes. Other camps in the Fleet added their own requirements: the addition of a fighterbay would open up possibilities as an SOC platform, or in the independent strike role through organic escorts or bombers. Missile launchers and magazines would allow for selectable munition loads.

   The notional Diomedes became a rallying point for design schools who had been pushed out of the main thrust of Threat Exigency Initiative work. The design went forward, but these competing requirements should have produced a catastrophic compromise.

   Instead, GTVA designers produced a fascinating warship, one whose weaknesses are addressed by carefully counterpointed strengths. Armed with four Bull Frost next-generation anti-warship beams in a pair of twinned lateral batteries, the Diomedes relies on its startling agility to bring its firepower to bear. Designed to engage targets abeam, the class rewards flanking tactics and circling engagements against larger hostiles and aggressive action against multiple lighter opponents. Considerable sacrifices were made to operationalize the ship's fighterbay, but the potency of an on-board interceptor or bomber unit justified the cost, particularly in the areas of point defense and counter-air.

   Even as the GTVA has cracked down on its own patronage system, dissolving the lines of influence that connected warship designers and commanders to particular schools, the Diomedes has acquired a reputation for scrappy flexibility and solitary pluck. Neglected by formal doctrine on the eve of the UEF-GTVA conflict except as a general 'flank escort' and 'fast response expedient', Diomedes captains drilled their own tactics and built a quiet professional community.

   The ongoing conflict has found the Diomedes thrown into the fire, often alone, often undersupported, acting on sketchy intelligence to provide decisive force at key moments. Casualties among the Diomedes class exceed that of any other next-generation warship, but GTVA commanders have taken note of the design's successes, and of the discipline and capability of her crews. Once seen as the ugly duckling of the TEI warship line, the Diomedes now finds itself in strategic and tactical demand.



EDIT: Drogoth:  Corrected.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: General Battuta on October 05, 2012, 12:31:29 am
Yeah, even without Supernovas the Valerie is kicking the Indus' ass. This is partly, however, because the deck is enormously tilted in her favor by mission scripting. I've evened the playing field a little now and the Indus now wins as she should.

No idea when the next patch will roll out, but we don't have to officially support the new Dio until then.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Drogoth on October 05, 2012, 02:19:46 pm
I'm a grammar stickler for tech room stuff.

 But more conservation factions of the GTVA military agitated for a less specialized next-generation design, a successor to and improvement upon the still-young Deimos corvette. Politically, they needed a warship that would fit the operational profile of line as well as elite units, but they also offered compelling tactical reasoning. Agile, aggressive combatants lacked the staying power for prolonged defensive operations at hardpoints, nodes, or convoys. A cheaper, more all-round design could supplement Deimos production with a powerful corvette leader or a supporting element to cover the flanks of destroyers or sister corvettes. Other camps in the Fleet added their own requirements: the addition of a fighterbay would open up possibilities as an SOC platform, or in the independent strike role through organic escorts or bombers. Missile launchers and magazines would allow for selectable munition loads.


Shouldn't it read 'more conservative factions'?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: General Battuta on October 05, 2012, 02:26:33 pm
Yeah, just a typo.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: -Norbert- on October 06, 2012, 12:07:03 pm
This is the first time I see "agitated" used as a verb.
Not that I mind though.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 09, 2012, 11:56:16 am
New update! The Bellerophon UV mapping was getting really tedious, so to mix things up a little, I decided to start work on another ship that needed a new model.  A fighter this time.  If you hang around #BP, you've almost certainly seen it.

New, shinier, faster-looking GTF Draco, with an Uhlan for scale: http://p3d.in/itVhH

Cockpit internals and wings are placeholders, though the wings will be of that size and shape, and will fold forward when afterburning. (http://p3d.in/mdnoB)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: crizza on October 09, 2012, 12:17:59 pm
Looks a little bit like a child of an F-14(got to play AC - fires of liberation again...) and an hiigarian interceptor. :yes:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Ryuseiken on October 09, 2012, 12:44:15 pm
I like it, the old Draco I always found looked much more like a Vasudan fighter than a Terran one. Maybe that was the intent, but I found it didn't match the more traditional designs of the other new fighters like the Nyx and Atlanta.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: An4ximandros on October 09, 2012, 01:46:31 pm
Should we not split the discussion of things out of this thread? It's real topic was, after all, the new models by Aesaar...

And I get mad every time I get in and not see an update by Aesaar :doubt:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Nyctaeus on October 09, 2012, 01:48:02 pm
I've never liked the old Draco. You turned it into a beauty :yes: !
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on October 09, 2012, 02:11:37 pm
And I get mad every time I get in and not see an update by Aesaar :doubt:
:7 u mad
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: An4ximandros on October 09, 2012, 02:19:09 pm
The NuDraco and the Drake ships look awesome!

Pssst! you probably should know this buuut... 32k polys for the BBlue is really... overkill.

Matt, it's ;7
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: General Battuta on October 09, 2012, 02:21:45 pm
No it's not, :7 is trollface
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: esarai on October 09, 2012, 02:45:09 pm
Holy lolmonkeys dat Draco.  Radical departure from the current Draco, looks totally badass.

Also, are those Atalanta thrusters I spy on the rear there?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Scotty on October 09, 2012, 02:53:22 pm
Could those of us who can't see p3d stuff get a couple regular image links?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: EternalRuin on October 09, 2012, 03:20:01 pm
Looks a little bit like a child of an F-14(got to play AC - fires of liberation again...) and an hiigarian interceptor. :yes:

I was actually thinking that the sweep forward thing is exactly what the Wyvern from the AC series does....

But yeah this new Draco is pretty badass  :D
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Rodo on October 09, 2012, 03:32:19 pm
old Draco looked like crap (IMO), glad to see it completely redone.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: crizza on October 09, 2012, 03:40:03 pm
Looks a little bit like a child of an F-14(got to play AC - fires of liberation again...) and an hiigarian interceptor. :yes:

I was actually thinking that the sweep forward thing is exactly what the Wyvern from the AC series does....

But yeah this new Draco is pretty badass  :D
The Wyvern...uh...I only have fires of liberation, dunno if theres a Wyvern included...so...
But still, I like afterburner extra features  :D
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 09, 2012, 05:33:19 pm
Holy lolmonkeys dat Draco.  Radical departure from the current Draco, looks totally badass.

Also, are those Atalanta thrusters I spy on the rear there?
Yes they are.  Because the thrusters you made look awesome, and because it gives the two something in common.  Also, the guns and most of the internal cockpit.  I hope that's alright. :)


Pssst! you probably should know this buuut... 32k polys for the BBlue is really... overkill.
It's because I'll need to bake a new normal map for the BBlue, as the MBlue's won't work.


Scotty:
http://imageshack.us/a/img802/7781/draco01.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img840/1616/draco02.jpg

Not much detail yet, so there isn't much to show.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Scotty on October 09, 2012, 05:39:21 pm
Ooooh, very nice.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: ssmit132 on October 10, 2012, 07:36:42 am
Wow, that Draco... I didn't mind the original one at all, but the new one you made looks excellent! :)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: VPR on October 10, 2012, 04:37:22 pm
Liking the new versions you're doing, the old models definitely needed a refresh. The new Draco looks much better, though it would've been interesting to see what you might have produced keeping to the original wing configuration.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: FIZ on October 10, 2012, 04:56:27 pm
So is the hitbox going to be larger?  Never liked the Draco due to its frailness, I imagine a larger size won't help that.  The new models look real sharp though.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: The Dagger on October 10, 2012, 05:05:26 pm
I never liked the original Draco. It didn't fit the TEI.
This one fits and looks great so far. I like it.  :yes: Keep it up!
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 11, 2012, 12:21:49 pm
So is the hitbox going to be larger?  Never liked the Draco due to its frailness, I imagine a larger size won't help that.  The new models look real sharp though.
No.  Because the wings are swing-wings, I've decided the shield mesh won't cover them.  They'll be untargetable subsystems with the "Carry no damage" flag to ensure that hitting them deals no damage.  Or the whole fighter will have surface shields.

Either way, while it's slightly bigger than the Nyx and the Atalanta from the top, from the sides and front it's a lot thinner.  It's also longer than the original Draco, but much narrower.

And as you can see, even with the wings, it's about the size of the Uhlan.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Droid803 on October 11, 2012, 04:53:15 pm
you can use surface shields with a shield mesh.
impact effects show up on the shield mesh but damage calculation is done via surface shields.

it's cool, it means that you can have bits sticking out or a hole-y shield mesh andnot have to give a damn :P

either way, it's good practice unless you think something is going to be able to fly under the shield and achieve something, as it removes one possible source of "balancing error".
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 11, 2012, 06:02:34 pm
What kind of plans do you have for texturing it?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 11, 2012, 10:55:42 pm
PhantomHoover: Haven't thought that far ahead.  Probably something Atalanta-ish.

Droid803: That sounds perfect.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention. :)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: esarai on October 11, 2012, 11:11:16 pm
Yes IT IS.  Because the thrusters you made look awesome, and because it gives the two something in common.  Also, the guns and most of the internal cockpit.  I hope that's alright. :)

Lol you made it look totes badass so I don't mind.  And I wouldn't mind regardless because I like seeing people using my work.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: crizza on October 22, 2012, 06:37:18 am
Uh, I just notice the horrible place for the nameplate of the Bellerophon and thus my question:
Where will you place it?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 22, 2012, 12:20:28 pm
If you check P3d, turn on wireframe, you'll see the nameplate rectangle.  It's in pretty much the same place as the Chimera's is (right under the forward AAA).

I've completed main hull UVmapping, so I'll be posting texture updates either this week or next.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: crizza on October 22, 2012, 01:37:05 pm
Ok, just did a mission with the Marcus glaive and it's nameplate was running diagonal over the tower thing behind the beam cannons.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 18-09-12)
Post by: SaltyWaffles on October 22, 2012, 01:43:19 pm
IDK if anything drastic or permanent really needs to be done. If the Valarie was set to fly in a straighter line, I don't think the cannons could engage. What's happening (from what I can see) is that the fore section of the ship turns up when the Indus arrives, so the Indus ends up being at a relatively high angle compared to the Valarie (roughly 20 degrees or so)

Or just have the Indus show up from/attack from a lower angle, where none of the Diomedes' beams can shoot. Assuming the Valarie keeps heading in a straight line like before, it shouldn't be too much of a problem (I hope).
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 22, 2012, 01:57:41 pm
Battuta fixed the Valerie-Indus issue pretty much the day it was reported.  Will apparently be packaged in some future patch.  For the time being, just set the Indus as invulnerable.

crizza: yeah, it look weird there.  The old Chimera had the nameplate arranged vertically on the middle segment, which looked weird too.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 22, 2012, 02:21:57 pm
why wouldn't the valerie just roll over
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 22, 2012, 03:06:36 pm
Because it isn't supposed to kill the Indus.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: An4ximandros on October 22, 2012, 03:08:38 pm
There's a Plotium Singularity stopping the Valerie.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: General Battuta on October 22, 2012, 03:20:36 pm
I spent a while trying to finesse the Valerie's waypoints to have her fight 'smarter', but it turns out the deck was already enormously stacked in her favor - she had 20x engine toughness and more than double hull toughness, whereas the Indus got nothing - so I left her with a bit of bad helmsmanship while evening some of the other factors in the fight.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 22, 2012, 03:43:21 pm
"Bad helmsmanship" is a bit of an understatement when apparently nobody on board thought to bring their guns to bear on the frigate that was ripping them to shreds.

"But sir, if you'd just roll the ship slightly we could save the lives of the entire crew and deal a serious blow to the UEF!" "Dammit Lieutenant, that's not my call! Command ordered us to attack in this orientation and I'm damned if I'm going to disobey them!"
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 22, 2012, 03:53:28 pm
Let's just say the Valerie's engines get ****ed up by the Indus' guns and it couldn't turn.  Lucky shot.  Maybe Battuta could give a line to someone that makes that clear, if people care so much.

Can't actually destroy engine subsystem because it apparently ****s up the Atreus cutscene because the Indus is out of position.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: General Battuta on October 22, 2012, 04:02:13 pm
"Bad helmsmanship" is a bit of an understatement when apparently nobody on board thought to bring their guns to bear on the frigate that was ripping them to shreds.

"But sir, if you'd just roll the ship slightly we could save the lives of the entire crew and deal a serious blow to the UEF!" "Dammit Lieutenant, that's not my call! Command ordered us to attack in this orientation and I'm damned if I'm going to disobey them!"

Her guns do bear, though - enough that she can do some real damage. Even murder the Indus in the currently released version of the mission!

The time for making major changes to that mission is past. It'd take hours of re-work and iteration to make sure nothing broke in any edge cases, and Darkest Hour is already probably the second most work-intensive mission we've done so far. I don't think my sanity could handle a major rebalance.

Without a bunch of armor her engines get popped really early on, though. So consider whether you'd rather have bad helmsmanship or the Valerie dead in the water  :p
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 22, 2012, 04:46:26 pm
I'd rather have dead in the water, myself... :D
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Scotty on October 22, 2012, 05:19:29 pm
Can't you change armor classes via SEXP?  Why not drop the armor class during the relevent portion of the mission?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: An4ximandros on October 22, 2012, 05:25:03 pm
Honestly I see this as the reason for why Tables are worthless as cannon clues, they are swapped around every mission, so how do they rely any useful info?

Now if Darius/Battuta/BPDevs released the "Commander's essential guide to the Diomedes Corvette Class" we might get into something.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Mars on October 22, 2012, 05:57:45 pm
Honestly I see this as the reason for why Tables are worthless as cannon clues, they are swapped around every mission, so how do they relay any useful info?

They don't.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Luis Dias on October 22, 2012, 06:10:06 pm
I'm still confused at how tables should give us clues about cannons.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on October 22, 2012, 06:19:11 pm
You don't?  Weapons.tbm might help you with that. :p
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Droid803 on October 22, 2012, 10:56:12 pm
Tech descriptions are more meaningful to canon than statistics, both are in the tables. The tables do give a lot of clues about cannons though, in both ships and weapons. :P
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: SaltyWaffles on November 23, 2012, 05:23:54 pm
I spent a while trying to finesse the Valerie's waypoints to have her fight 'smarter', but it turns out the deck was already enormously stacked in her favor - she had 20x engine toughness and more than double hull toughness, whereas the Indus got nothing - so I left her with a bit of bad helmsmanship while evening some of the other factors in the fight.

Sorry for the late post, but I'm curious (and eagerly awaiting updates on the upcoming models--no pressure intended, just in love with such awesome work).

Why not, perhaps, remove the double hull toughness (and much of the engine toughness), but make her maneuver more intelligently? If it did work out well enough (and I don't know if it would, of course), it would make for a much more entertaining and interesting fight between the two ships. Since the dialog in the mission doesn't mention any meta-factors coming into play with regards to increased durability or whatnot, wouldn't it be easier to follow/better for immersion if the (visually explicit and demonstrated) reason for the Valarie's destruction wasn't due to jarringly bad maneuvering (or lack thereof)? Or, perhaps, you could retain the current dynamic by having the opening salvo from the Indus be a lucky hit (in part due to the great positioning it got when jumping in) to the Val's engines, drastically curbing or outright disabling its maneuverability.

Obviously, this is just speculation; I haven't done any testing with it, so I trust your judgement. Again, this is more out of curiosity than anything else.

EDIT: Missed a post up there, sorry. Though that does leave the question about the possibility of making the Valarie crippled from the opening slavo of gauss cannons from the Indus' (possibly accidental) shock-jump flank attack. It would help to mitigate the Worf Effect plaguing the Diomedes class right now and not make the Valarie's captain confusingly dense.

----

As an aside, what exactly is the deal with the Hyperion-class cruiser being so large for its capabilities and role (assuming it was due to the necessity of working with the existing model and its size), especially given that the Aeolus is roughly half its size while being (relatively speaking) almost as effective in every aspect?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: General Battuta on November 23, 2012, 07:08:57 pm
Please feel free to draft up a mission with improved Valerie waypoints for me; submit it with a couple sentences of testing outcome for your 10 test runs and I'll see about merging it into SVN.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: QuakeIV on November 24, 2012, 03:20:33 pm
(http://i.qkme.me/3odki3.jpg)

e: not that i find any fault with this mind you, he can do whatever he feels like with his time
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: General Battuta on November 24, 2012, 03:34:50 pm
Well I think it's been made clear that the issue is not 'the Valerie's waypoints can't be improved' (they obviously can, and it would have clear benefits for 'immersion' and all that ****), but that the labor involved would be pretty sanity-stretching given that it's a mission we've already spent more time on than nearly any other.

I can't stand working on Darkest Hour any more.

Also I'd like to point out that the Diomedes 'sweetspot' is pretty narrow, and that when we designed DH with the original Dio model, two beams on target was considered pretty much the optimal. By this standard the Valerie doesn't do half bad.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: SaltyWaffles on November 24, 2012, 04:15:12 pm
Well I think it's been made clear that the issue is not 'the Valerie's waypoints can't be improved' (they obviously can, and it would have clear benefits for 'immersion' and all that ****), but that the labor involved would be pretty sanity-stretching given that it's a mission we've already spent more time on than nearly any other.

I can't stand working on Darkest Hour any more.

Also I'd like to point out that the Diomedes 'sweetspot' is pretty narrow, and that when we designed DH with the original Dio model, two beams on target was considered pretty much the optimal. By this standard the Valerie doesn't do half bad.

I understand. As I added into my previous post (sorry if I was confusing), this reason is very valid for not going with the 'rework the waypoints' route, leaving me with the possibility of having the Indus's opening salvo or two disable the Valarie's engines from the Indus' (possibly coincidental) flank-attack from subspace. Chaotic schedule for the moment aside, I'll give it a shot and see if it has sufficient merit. 
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on November 24, 2012, 09:21:44 pm
I might try this just to practice fredding.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Col.Hornet on January 08, 2013, 12:31:32 pm
So the Bel is finished :D What's going next  Aesaar ...? Please tell me it will be the Raynor. Knowing your skills and style I can almost imagine right now how awesome it would be. :D You are (in my opinion)  the only modeller who should re-make this destroyer.

I was astonished when I saw what You did with Chimera and Bel, two the most ugly ships in my opinion. Now I like them :) Thank You once again for your great work
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: SpardaSon21 on January 08, 2013, 12:32:44 pm
If you were hanging out on BP's IRC channel you would know Aesaar is already working on the Raynor.  It simply looks awesome.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on January 08, 2013, 01:49:07 pm
Yes, the Raynor is being worked on.  But it will be a surprise.  It'll be released with the last part of WiH, and you wont see it until then.

The Draco, on the other hand, is currently being textured by Esarai.  Depending on how fast he works, release should happen this month or early Feb.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Col.Hornet on January 08, 2013, 02:37:15 pm
Okay, thanks for the info. I hope that it will be similar to this what we have seen so far (I'm sharpening my teeth for her, because tilemapping doesn't give me such possibilities to create something uniqe) It would be cool for the texture pattern to remain like on Diomedes or Chimera. And it's also easy to modify to make the ship look not BP'ish.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Molaris on February 10, 2013, 11:33:58 pm
is there any chance that what you did to these ships will happen to the Raynor and Titan?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: General Battuta on February 10, 2013, 11:37:05 pm
is there any chance that what you did to these ships will happen to the Raynor and Titan?

He's working on the Raynor right now
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: An4ximandros on February 10, 2013, 11:40:19 pm
Yes, the Raynor is being worked on.  But it will be a surprise.  It'll be released with the last part of WiH, and you wont see it until then.

You bastard. :D

Edit: Will we at least get to see the neo-Hyperions? And what about the GTD Titans?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Drogoth on February 12, 2013, 02:50:22 am
Yes, the Raynor is being worked on.  But it will be a surprise.  It'll be released with the last part of WiH, and you wont see it until then.

The Draco, on the other hand, is currently being textured by Esarai.  Depending on how fast he works, release should happen this month or early Feb.

So what you're saying is I should wait till the end of WiH to order my Raynor 3D print from Vasudan Admiral. Good to know.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on February 12, 2013, 07:21:07 am
An4ximandros: Hyperion, yes.  Titan, maybe. :p

Drogoth: Yes, that's probably a good idea.

And if you guys had been on #bp, you'd have gotten Raynor previews!
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Drogoth on February 12, 2013, 12:49:25 pm
I'm so looking forward to the new Raynor. Allthough your diomedes is still my all up favorite FS Ship ever. Very sleek. Shark like.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Crybertrance on February 12, 2013, 12:53:42 pm
I'm so looking forward to the new Raynor. Allthough your diomedes is still my all up favorite FS Ship ever. Very sleek. Shark like.

His Raynor is epic... really epic...  :nod:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: An4ximandros on February 12, 2013, 01:36:52 pm
Holding us back from both destroyers would be a... titanic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o) cruelty.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Valiran on February 12, 2013, 05:57:28 pm
So the Bel is finished :D What's going next  Aesaar ...? Please tell me it will be the Raynor. Knowing your skills and style I can almost imagine right now how awesome it would be. :D You are (in my opinion)  the only modeller who should re-make this destroyer.

I was astonished when I saw what You did with Chimera and Bel, two the most ugly ships in my opinion. Now I like them :) Thank You once again for your great work

Wait, he finished the Bellerophon?  When and where was this announced?


If you were hanging out on BP's IRC channel you would know Aesaar is already working on the Raynor.  It simply looks awesome.
  Does this channel have a history section I can look at, or are those images gone forever?  I've never used an IRC channel until today. :ick:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 12, 2013, 06:01:31 pm
there's a p3d link he posts periodically, your best bet is to lurk until he does so
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Ryuseiken on February 12, 2013, 06:11:23 pm
Wait, he finished the Bellerophon?  When and where was this announced?

The updated Bellerophon has been included in the WiH builds since Tenebra came out.


Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Valiran on February 12, 2013, 09:35:41 pm
there's a p3d link he posts periodically, your best bet is to lurk until he does so

I'm in luck, he posted it! :D

Now all I need is to find out whether or not sharing the link here would be a good idea. :doubt:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: An4ximandros on February 12, 2013, 09:47:59 pm
JU DO TIS! HWY! Don't post it, I want it to be a surprise thing. But it better blow my **** brains out in awe Aesaar!
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: QuakeIV on February 12, 2013, 11:46:32 pm
Do not ask yourself if it is a good idea.  Instead ask yourself what you would want someone else to do with the link if they had it.

Spoiler:
that means you should totally post it bro
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Mars on February 12, 2013, 11:49:58 pm
If Aessar wanted it public, he would have posted it here. He's welcome to at any time
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: General Battuta on February 13, 2013, 12:35:43 am
So the Bel is finished :D What's going next  Aesaar ...? Please tell me it will be the Raynor. Knowing your skills and style I can almost imagine right now how awesome it would be. :D You are (in my opinion)  the only modeller who should re-make this destroyer.

I was astonished when I saw what You did with Chimera and Bel, two the most ugly ships in my opinion. Now I like them :) Thank You once again for your great work

Wait, he finished the Bellerophon?  When and where was this announced?

It's in the latest BP release
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Valiran on February 13, 2013, 02:10:43 pm
Do not ask yourself if it is a good idea.  Instead ask yourself what you would want someone else to do with the link if they had it.

Spoiler:
that means you should totally post it bro

Look guys, I understand you want to see it.  The thing is:

If Aessar wanted it public, he would have posted it here. He's welcome to at any time

If I post link + Aesaar: :mad: =

(http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww10/Valiran/Response%20Images/thisiswhywecanthavenicethings_zpscc8a97f1.jpg)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on February 13, 2013, 02:14:37 pm
I'd just remove the raynor from p3d and I wouldn't post it again outside of dev channels.

And then everyone would blame you! :p
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Valiran on February 13, 2013, 05:46:29 pm
I'd just remove the raynor from p3d and I wouldn't post it again outside of dev channels.

And then everyone would blame you! :p

(http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww10/Valiran/Response%20Images/THIS_zpse4b29804.gif)

SEE WHAT I MEAN?!  There are people on the internet who ruin things for the rest of us!  They're the reason why fans can't have nice things (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhyFandomCantHaveNiceThings), and I WILL NOT JOIN THEM!!!
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Crybertrance on February 14, 2013, 02:23:27 am
-snip-

Epic gif is epic. :lol:


Do not ask yourself if it is a good idea.  Instead ask yourself what you would want someone else to do with the link if they had it.

Spoiler:
that means you should totally post it bro

pro-tip: Hang around the #bp IRC channel, you might get a wild glimpse of it
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (Updated 09-10-12)
Post by: Aesaar on May 20, 2013, 06:44:43 am
Alright, **** it, releasing this now.  There's a graphical anomaly around the cockpit sometimes.  I'll rebuild the pof to get rid of it at some point (probably after the Erebus/Raynor is done), but for now, have the Draco. (http://www.mediafire.com/?wtfu91kc30538wa) 

Textures and cockpit by Esarai, who did an absolutely amazing job.

If you want the cockpit, there's a line commented out.  Ensure
$Cockpit POF file:   dracoCkpt.pof
is right under
+Missile Banks:            2 (40, 40)

Do NOT use the "show ship" flag, it'll look terrible.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: General Battuta on May 20, 2013, 09:24:06 am
POAST SCREENS
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Aesaar on May 20, 2013, 10:45:24 am
OKAY, HAVE SOEM SCREENS TOO!  OMG SO DEMANDING!

Here is the Draco in the techroom:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img24/1396/fs2open3617sse2bp201305.png)

Here's it on afterburners:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img607/1396/fs2open3617sse2bp201305.png)

And here's a cool picture of me missing a Nyx with mah Kaysers:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img43/1396/fs2open3617sse2bp201305.png)

And here is a dark picture of the top of Esarai's badass cockpit:

(http://imageshack.us/a/img607/9738/fs2open3617sse2bp201303.png)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Darius on May 20, 2013, 10:49:44 am
Quote from: Laporte
How are we supposed to

even read the damn text with that cockpit? :P
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Dragon on May 20, 2013, 01:02:34 pm
I told all of you moving it there was a bad idea. Nobody listened...
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: An4ximandros on May 20, 2013, 01:38:32 pm
 Ðat cockpit.

 Can we get some kind of blurry/glassy background for the text? that way we could actually read the bloody thing.

 And is that cabin actually functional? (Like Diaspora?)

 No need to mention the ship. Would not post otherwise. It's that great.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: General Battuta on May 20, 2013, 02:09:43 pm
I told all of you moving it there was a bad idea. Nobody listened...

And nobody will, as cockpits are not a design element in Blue Planet.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 20, 2013, 02:34:22 pm
And thank non-existent god for that.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Rodo on May 20, 2013, 03:21:57 pm
well well, well...now that's way better Draco, I might actually have some desire to use you now.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: QuakeIV on May 20, 2013, 03:37:12 pm
And thank non-existent god for that.

I resent that!
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 20, 2013, 04:15:24 pm
And thank non-existent god for that.

I resent that!

*sigh* don't feed his ego by caring about anything he says
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Aesaar on May 20, 2013, 08:59:00 pm
I told all of you moving it there was a bad idea. Nobody listened...
  In spite of the fact that you can't read it all that well with a cockpit, I far prefer the text there.

Ðat cockpit.

 Can we get some kind of blurry/glassy background for the text? that way we could actually read the bloody thing.

 And is that cabin actually functional? (Like Diaspora?)

 No need to mention the ship. Would not post otherwise. It's that great.
No, it's not fully functional.  I don't think it'd be hard to do though.  It's mostly there because I like flying with cockpits on ships that have good ones. 

Also, it'll probably be ported to Star Citizen one day.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Flak on May 20, 2013, 10:51:54 pm
Is it just me, but I get reminded of one of those Nordera stuff.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: niffiwan on May 20, 2013, 11:07:38 pm
wut?  Chunky & primitive looking?

(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/thumb/NorderaPillager.png/450px-NorderaPillager.png)

I think it's just you :p
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Flak on May 21, 2013, 01:17:03 am
I mean just the shape, it is sure not the pieces of junk those Nordera pillagers ever was.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Darius on May 21, 2013, 02:27:18 am
I see the head and tail end of a taiidani with a splash of hiigaran body.

And the text position is definitely not changing. I did notice ships.tbl has a cockpit offset feature, maybe shifting it down a bit might help with visibility.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: qwadtep on May 21, 2013, 03:06:28 am
I feel sorry for Draco pilots now, though. That cockpit placement reminds me of the Valkyrie's sensor subsystem, except the sensors are your face. Suicide Kings are going to have a higher turnover rate than Simms.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Mars on May 21, 2013, 07:56:37 pm
It's beautiful.

EDIT:

Holy crap - it's huge! Not a problem in and of itself, but I think " the heavier Kentauroi" might not be so accurate.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 21, 2013, 08:42:39 pm
Huh? Aesaar was always going on about how much smaller its target profile was than the Kent while he was making it.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Mars on May 21, 2013, 08:51:47 pm
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4677/62092012.png)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 21, 2013, 08:55:16 pm
AESAAR how many LIES have you told us
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Mars on May 21, 2013, 09:00:06 pm
Although, playing with it a bit, I suspect the scale is to prevent it from being an all out cheat. The Draco she flies well.


Hey, did you release a HUD icon for it as well
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on May 21, 2013, 09:04:34 pm
Note that the Draco's shield mesh is still going to be significantly narrower than the Kent's, since those wings at the side don't take damage and poke outside the shield.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Aesaar on May 22, 2013, 12:52:45 am
I said it was about the size of an Uhlan.  Which it is.   Wings have the "carry no damage" flag as well, so they don't count.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img546/8256/dracsize.png)

And no, I think Esarai still has the HUD icon, but he didn't give it to me.

And the inspiration for the fighter came from this piece of concept art, from an old Homeworld redesign thread on Relicnews.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img837/2736/061212120336taiiintieco.jpg)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: crizza on May 22, 2013, 05:42:32 am
I'm once again in love with your designs :)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Flak on May 22, 2013, 09:27:06 am
Oh I see, it is a Taiidan interceptor with the odd asymmetric side gun removed and made more streamlined.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: General Battuta on May 25, 2013, 01:32:43 am
No it isn't.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 25, 2013, 03:32:26 am
ttuta wat.

Flak is talking about the concept art pic. It definitely is.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: crizza on October 17, 2013, 08:27:38 am
Yeah...this topic has not been posted in for almost five full months, but I'm pretty sure.
I know, people have a real life and so on, but is Aesaar still working on the ships or has he focused his attention to other projects?
For the record: It is not my intention so sound rude or demanding in any way, I'm just curious.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: Aesaar on October 17, 2013, 01:56:37 pm
The Erebus/Raynor is in the BP SVN right now.  Public release is just being held up by me being too lazy to finish the debris and lods.  It'll happen, but not in October.  Got a bunch of schoolwork due at the start of November.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: crizza on October 17, 2013, 02:22:18 pm
Thx for the information dude.
Good to know you're still working on them, but take your time, real life comes first  :)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: VPR on August 07, 2014, 12:33:24 pm
Hi, noticed that the Draco model doesn't seem to be working with the current release using 3.7.2 RC3 and causes Fs2 to crash out on load up. I've attached a fs2_open log.

[attachment kidnapped by pirates]
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on August 07, 2014, 03:10:05 pm
The table files included with these downloads use a feature of deferred lighting builds not present in the normal releases. You don't need them with Blue Planet, though, since the Draco is present in the mod's tables already.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTF Draco released)
Post by: VPR on August 07, 2014, 03:32:26 pm
Thanks, removing the line below from the tbm file fixed the error and it now works.

Code: [Select]
$Glowpoint overrides: ( "blue_glow4_small_20:1" "red_glow_20:2" "green_glow_20:3" "red_glow_20:4" )
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Aesaar on November 16, 2014, 08:10:50 am

blarg blarg blarg
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: An4ximandros on November 16, 2014, 08:24:09 am
(http://i.imgur.com/PZ7fjlG.gif)

NOICE! :yes: :yes: :yes:

Only needs more ribs in the underside indent :p
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: T-Man on November 16, 2014, 08:43:37 am
My kept-to-myself worries about changes to the Titan (a model I love many parts of) are hereby alleviated (and indeed thrown out the nearest window); that is looking awesome! :yes:

Feel you managed to bring the blocky look of the new models without massively harming the old curvy Titan. Like the new front with the triangular beams too must say. Congrats. :)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: CKid on November 16, 2014, 09:12:14 am
Everything T-Man said.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: procdrone on November 16, 2014, 09:16:55 am
New Titan definetly looks better then her predecessor.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: crizza on November 16, 2014, 09:40:17 am
Oh my gosh O.O
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: starbug on November 16, 2014, 12:49:53 pm
Wow oh wow oh wow, in love with that model, love the new front and the new turrets :) :) :)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Col.Hornet on November 16, 2014, 02:30:57 pm
Nice to see this thing :D However I think that dorsal and rear sections are too flat compared to the rest. Part behind the bridge the most
And the bridge itself. it's too small. When I look at it from the sides I have a feeling that entire line is missing something. Maybe let's try go back to the one that Diomedes/Chimera/Bel have. I mean just the basic lines. But much more detailed.

  Keep up the work, I'm very curious how this ship will change :)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Droid803 on November 17, 2014, 02:13:27 am
Hm, something about it makes it feel a bit smaller than the original one - is it actually fatter? Otherwise, lookin great. :yes:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Luis Dias on November 17, 2014, 05:31:49 am
Aesaar, that is beautiful. Tear inducing beautiful. Great job so far!
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Rheyah on November 17, 2014, 12:52:17 pm
I love the consistant design method.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Valiran on November 19, 2014, 09:15:06 am
I hesitate to say this, because I still think it's a great model...:nervous:...but it looks more phallic than ever now.  :wtf::p
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: BritishShivans on November 19, 2014, 10:23:46 am
I hesitate to say this, because I still think it's a great model...:nervous:...but it looks more phallic than ever now.  :wtf::p

hey hey i've got a nice idea for you there

it's called shut the **** up and stop deliberately seeing everything as a phallus
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Luis Dias on November 19, 2014, 10:37:51 am
Was that necessary?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Col.Hornet on November 19, 2014, 11:21:14 am
I hesitate to say this, because I still think it's a great model...:nervous:...but it looks more phallic than ever now.  :wtf::p

hey hey i've got a nice idea for you there

it's called shut the **** up and stop deliberately seeing everything as a phallus

I also have an idea. Stop writing things like this. It won't help anyone. if any of you guys want to help Aesaar with this model, have objections on some parts of the design, just point it and post a proposal for corrections.
   It's not about seeing an anatomy in this ship. You Valiran are not the first one who had such thoughts ;P So did I some time ago (but I don't care anymore). Also, when my friend saw the titan for the first time on the screen, she automatically said "- Hey it's look like a "put a proper word here".." and started to laugh.  :D

#Edit. grammar
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: An4ximandros on November 19, 2014, 11:28:24 am
If anything, it has been greatly depenilized.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Luis Dias on November 19, 2014, 11:44:50 am
FreeSpace warships were always big penises masqueraded as "guns". Yeah gun, shoot your load oh babyyeah
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Hellzed on November 19, 2014, 11:47:59 am
Completely unrelated : any news about 3D printed FS2 ships ?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: DahBlount on November 19, 2014, 01:43:56 pm
Keep up the great work Aesaar!
The more angular nose definitely gives the Titan a more menacing look. While I was initially skeptical, the new triangle face does much to that effect as well.

Completely unrelated : any news about 3D printed FS2 ships ?

I believe someone printed out an Orion at one point. Maybe a Sathanas as well.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Valiran on November 19, 2014, 02:46:32 pm
I hesitate to say this, because I still think it's a great model...:nervous:...but it looks more phallic than ever now.  :wtf::p

hey hey i've got a nice idea for you there

it's called shut the **** up and stop deliberately seeing everything as a phallus

 :wtf: :nono: Hey, that sort of talk is uncalled for.  Notice how I said that I still thought it was a great model?  I was just voicing an observation. :doubt:

I hesitate to say this, because I still think it's a great model...:nervous:...but it looks more phallic than ever now.  :wtf::p

hey hey i've got a nice idea for you there

it's called shut the **** up and stop deliberately seeing everything as a phallus

I also have an idea. Stop writing things like this. It won't help anyone. if any of you guys want to help Aesaar with this model, have objections on some parts of the design, just point it and post a proposal for corrections.
   It's not about seeing an anatomy in this ship. You Valiran are not the first one who had such thoughts ;P So did I some time ago (but I don't care anymore). Also, when my friend saw the titan for the first time on the screen, she automatically said "- Hey it's look like a "put a proper word here".." and started to laugh.  :D

#Edit. grammar

I have utmost faith in Aesaar's modeling ability.  I also think that voicing my opinion won't hurt.

If anything, it has been greatly depenilized.
:confused: You really think so? :blah:  I'll have to look at the original model when I get home, I always saw it as resembling a giant whale or something.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Nyctaeus on November 19, 2014, 03:14:12 pm
TBH I will miss original main beams configuration. It was signature feature of the whole ship, and current triangle setup makes the Titan too much like Bellorophon. One ship with three beams in triangular configuration is enough for entire fleet. At the other hand I like secondary heavy cannons and other changes You have made.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Black Wolf on November 19, 2014, 05:49:01 pm
Was that necessary?

No, it wasn't, and it earned British Shivans a one-day ban.

Completely unrelated : any news about 3D printed FS2 ships ?

VA was doing them a few years ago, but he's been much less active lately. They were pretty cool though, I scored an Aeolus and got a Fenris for my brother:

(http://i57.tinypic.com/2mowp6q.jpg)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: crizza on November 19, 2014, 06:54:51 pm
TBH I will miss original main beams configuration. It was signature feature of the whole ship, and current triangle setup makes the Titan too much like Bellorophon. One ship with three beams in triangular configuration is enough for entire fleet. At the other hand I like secondary heavy cannons and other changes You have made.
Well, the original Titan has the beams in a triangel configuartion if you're honest. Not that tightly together like on Aesaars, but still...
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Nyctaeus on November 19, 2014, 07:04:23 pm
TBH I will miss original main beams configuration. It was signature feature of the whole ship, and current triangle setup makes the Titan too much like Bellorophon. One ship with three beams in triangular configuration is enough for entire fleet. At the other hand I like secondary heavy cannons and other changes You have made.
Well, the original Titan has the beams in a triangel configuartion if you're honest. Not that tightly together like on Aesaars, but still...
Indeed, but in totaly different configuration, and not in one surface. Titan is known for it's unique beam configuration. It will never be the same with any other setup.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: An4ximandros on November 19, 2014, 07:27:08 pm
Yeah, this is the one time I must admit I dislike what happened to the beam setup, it feels like it looses too much of the ship's character here... Still, it's his model.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: TechnoD11 on November 19, 2014, 08:34:41 pm
Completely unrelated : any news about 3D printed FS2 ships ?

Let's just say I've got something big in the works :)
Expect word soon.
(Considering it my unique contribution to the community, but I was really hoping no one would say anything  :p
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: -Norbert- on November 20, 2014, 03:45:33 am
Apart from the visuals, doesn't this closeness of the beams make it all the more vulnerable against the UEF's torpedo swarm attacks? If one torpedo hits, the shockwave will strike all three main beams and as a result they'd be taken out a lot faster than on the old Titan model.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: procdrone on November 20, 2014, 05:48:44 am
Im interested.... what other ships you're planning to remake?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: The E on November 20, 2014, 05:51:51 am
Apart from the visuals, doesn't this closeness of the beams make it all the more vulnerable against the UEF's torpedo swarm attacks? If one torpedo hits, the shockwave will strike all three main beams and as a result they'd be taken out a lot faster than on the old Titan model.

The TEI ships were not designed to combat UEF ships. Also keep in mind this is not a concern at any point in the released missions.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: -Norbert- on November 20, 2014, 07:14:05 am
True, they were build to fight Shivans and the only beams that would hit all three emitters are the ones on the Sathanas and Shiva, which would insta-kill a Titan anyway. And in Delenda Est the beams are protected by "plot armour".
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Aesaar on November 20, 2014, 02:26:20 pm
Im interested.... what other ships you're planning to remake?
After the Titan and the Hyperion?  I don't know.  I wouldn't mind giving the Diomedes another pass, since it'll be a good three years old by the time I finish these two and a lot annoys me about the model.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: CT27 on November 20, 2014, 02:33:03 pm
Apart from the visuals, doesn't this closeness of the beams make it all the more vulnerable against the UEF's torpedo swarm attacks? If one torpedo hits, the shockwave will strike all three main beams and as a result they'd be taken out a lot faster than on the old Titan model.

Agreed.  Wouldn't the old model be a slightly better fighter militarily?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: QuakeIV on November 20, 2014, 03:20:38 pm
I dunno, last time I faced it it turned me into chunky gumbo much more quickly than the original.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: General Battuta on November 20, 2014, 03:54:04 pm
Do shockwaves even damage subsystems in BP?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: An4ximandros on November 20, 2014, 03:54:52 pm
Diomedes II, Y'all herd it here firs'!
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on November 20, 2014, 08:29:09 pm
Do shockwaves even damage subsystems in BP?
Code: [Select]
$shockwaves damage small ship subsystems: NO
They don't damage fighter subsystems, but shockwaves can't be made to not damage large ships' subsystems.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Drogoth on November 27, 2014, 04:13:45 pm
Keep up the great work Aesaar!
The more angular nose definitely gives the Titan a more menacing look. While I was initially skeptical, the new triangle face does much to that effect as well.

Completely unrelated : any news about 3D printed FS2 ships ?

I believe someone printed out an Orion at one point. Maybe a Sathanas as well.

VA hooked me up with the Orion. It's sitting on my desk :)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: James Razor on January 02, 2015, 02:44:26 pm
Uhm.. who is VA. And of what prices do we speak. I realy would be interessted in a Orion for myself if i can afford it.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: niffiwan on January 02, 2015, 05:49:38 pm
VA is Vasudan Admiral, unfortunately I don't believe he's able to make any more models at this point in time.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Veers on January 04, 2015, 01:54:32 am
I regret not purchasing when I had the chance :'(
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Aesaar on October 23, 2015, 11:53:34 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/kDpfKkt.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/4Nu340J.png)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on October 24, 2015, 12:40:22 am
What a... titanic accomplishment.
:cool:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: tomimaki on October 24, 2015, 06:54:16 am
Cool. It'll be a pleasure to die under Imperiouse's fire. :D
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Col.Hornet on October 24, 2015, 08:37:06 am
yay. It's finished :)


Now please finish this one :D

http://p3d.in/cStgj

(http://pre03.deviantart.net/ca4e/th/pre/f/2012/366/b/3/f_a_37_talon_by_fighterman35-d5pwvou.jpg)

Excellent source of inspiration in my opinion ;)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Makhpella on October 24, 2015, 08:59:50 am
Holy ****, that Titan looks gorgeous. I had to get used to the Erebus, but this...This is brilliant.

If you could also update this photo whenever you have the time, that would be perfect.
(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/16/15109/AlliancePride.png)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Dragon on October 24, 2015, 09:53:32 am
Bah, not fond of the beam cluster at all. I complained about this when it was first showcased, but of course nobody listened. The original arrangement was better, now they look like they could all be taken out with a single torpedo. I guess we can now count the Titan amongst ships that got all their distinctive features stripped over the course of remaking them. Not fond of circular intakes, either. The overall result is not really a bad model (except for the beam cluster, that thing's awful and would be better replaced with a single beam, if anything), but just looks generic, much like the Erebus.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Col.Hornet on October 24, 2015, 09:56:24 am
Wasn't the beam setup the source of problems with firing? At least I noticed that when I was having fun with Titan in FRED. 
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: General Battuta on October 24, 2015, 10:07:38 am
The only thing I miss from the old model is the more irregular, dynamic shape of the spine - with the swell along the front and the fin at the back. But I ain't complaining if we get a gorgeous new model.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Lowane on October 24, 2015, 10:20:48 am
Wow. The Titan looks stunning, absolutely stunning.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Hades on October 24, 2015, 10:31:43 am
Bah, not fond of the beam cluster at all. I complained about this when it was first showcased, but of course nobody listened. The original arrangement was better, now they look like they could all be taken out with a single torpedo. I guess we can now count the Titan amongst ships that got all their distinctive features stripped over the course of remaking them. Not fond of circular intakes, either. The overall result is not really a bad model (except for the beam cluster, that thing's awful and would be better replaced with a single beam, if anything), but just looks generic, much like the Erebus.
same but i too am gay
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 24, 2015, 10:49:57 am
I don't really like the cluster either, I think the front looked more interesting with the beams spread out.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: General Battuta on October 24, 2015, 10:53:31 am
same but i too am gay

Plz don't
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Aesaar on October 24, 2015, 11:12:46 am
Bah, not fond of the beam cluster at all. I complained about this when it was first showcased, but of course nobody listened. The original arrangement was better, now they look like they could all be taken out with a single torpedo. I guess we can now count the Titan amongst ships that got all their distinctive features stripped over the course of remaking them. Not fond of circular intakes, either. The overall result is not really a bad model (except for the beam cluster, that thing's awful and would be better replaced with a single beam, if anything), but just looks generic, much like the Erebus.
Yes, I too consider awkwardness and googly eyes a distinctive feature.  Unlike you, however, I don't think that "distinctive" means "good".  I'm glad they're gone and I wouldn't make a model that had them.  I kept the things that I thought looked good.

And you like Wing Commander.  You have no ground to stand on calling anything generic as a negative.  Or is generic just a catch-all term for **** you don't like?

Not intakes, btw.  Reverse thrusters.  Hence why they have the same model as the forward thrusters.

The only thing I miss from the old model is the more irregular, dynamic shape of the spine - with the swell along the front and the fin at the back. But I ain't complaining if we get a gorgeous new model.
I agree.   I'm quite dissatisfied with the spine.


I don't really like the cluster either, I think the front looked more interesting with the beams spread out.
Couldn't make it work without having a really obvious face on the front of the ship.  Faces annoy the **** out of me.  You get Shivan-y triangle instead.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Dragon on October 24, 2015, 11:58:31 am
And you like Wing Commander.  You have no ground to stand on calling anything generic as a negative.  Or is generic just a catch-all term for **** you don't like?
TBH, the last sentence wasn't really negative, just kind of "meh". Yes, Wing Commander fleets all play the "generic Terran ship design" to the hilt. Scooby Doo took this aesthetic and ran with it, resulting in a large number of good, multipurpose models (they don't look out of place even in the animesque Dimensional Eclipse).

That said, the original Titan was a very unique and interesting ship, which was a good thing. It lost that in the remake. That said, now that I've looked at it in PCS2, it's not all bad. I'm not really fond of the reverse thruster idea (especially since it's the only ship that has them and FSO isn't all that good at making them work), but if you replaced them with Erebus-style intakes and changed that horrible beam cluster, I could warm up to it. It kind of reminds me of Argon warships from X2 and X3. I suppose the spine could be more "dynamic" like Battuta said, but you could also go further away from the original and make it completely flat, like on Erebus.
Couldn't make it work without having a really obvious face on the front of the ship.  Faces annoy the **** out of me.  You get Shivan-y triangle instead.
Eh, it'd have been better off with a face. Now that you mentioned it, the triangle does look Shivan and rather out of place on an otherwise very Terran ship. What you could do would be to kick two of those beams off to the outriggers and have the third centrally between them (maybe slightly above or below, but not too far above or you'll get a face again). Indeed, there are two flat surfaces on the outriggers which look like a perfect location for two of the beams.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 24, 2015, 12:07:11 pm
Aesaar are you sure you aren't just unusually prone to pareidolia? Because this is not the first time you've redone the front of a ship because you couldn't stop seeing faces in it.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Hades on October 24, 2015, 12:12:21 pm
Aesaar are you sure you aren't just unusually prone to pareidolia? Because this is not the first time you've redone the front of a ship because you couldn't stop seeing faces in it.
I honestly think the guy's a bit nutters, aside from the chronic pie kleptomania
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Mars on October 24, 2015, 12:41:18 pm
This is why we can't have nice things. If you really prefer your own creative direction, make your own models.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: mr.WHO on October 24, 2015, 01:40:33 pm
+1 to Makhpella request to make a new screenshot of Erebus and Titan jumping to Saturn :)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Aesaar on October 24, 2015, 03:55:04 pm
That said, the original Titan was a very unique and interesting ship, which was a good thing. It lost that in the remake. That said, now that I've looked at it in PCS2, it's not all bad. I'm not really fond of the reverse thruster idea (especially since it's the only ship that has them and FSO isn't all that good at making them work), but if you replaced them with Erebus-style intakes and changed that horrible beam cluster, I could warm up to it. It kind of reminds me of Argon warships from X2 and X3. I suppose the spine could be more "dynamic" like Battuta said, but you could also go further away from the original and make it completely flat, like on Erebus.
I disagree.  It was unique, but it was not interesting.  In Caiaphas' words, it looked like "a disturbingly dildo-shaped shiny space liner".  I just think it looked awkward, bulgy, and googly-eyed, much like the Hyperion.

And they're not intakes on the Erebus either.  Notice how they look very similar to the Hyperion's main engines.  They don't need to be functional, they just need to add visual interest to an otherwise flat and featureless area.  They're circular here because the Titan is curvier than the Erebus is, so these fit better.

Quote
Eh, it'd have been better off with a face. Now that you mentioned it, the triangle does look Shivan and rather out of place on an otherwise very Terran ship. What you could do would be to kick two of those beams off to the outriggers and have the third centrally between them (maybe slightly above or below, but not too far above or you'll get a face again). Indeed, there are two flat surfaces on the outriggers which look like a perfect location for two of the beams.
I had versions with a face on them.  I preferred to start from scratch than keep them.  No, it would not have been better off with a face.  The Shivan comparison was very deliberate, and was intended to fit with BP's own narrative comparisons between the Shivans and the GTVA.  I like to think it works.

In any case, the prow isn't changing.  I settled on this after completely clearing the front of the ship three or four times.   I'm certainly not changing it at your request, especially since I quite like it and it's already been UV mapped and textured.

Quote
TBH, the last sentence wasn't really negative, just kind of "meh". Yes, Wing Commander fleets all play the "generic Terran ship design" to the hilt. Scooby Doo took this aesthetic and ran with it, resulting in a large number of good, multipurpose models (they don't look out of place even in the animesque Dimensional Eclipse).
I really mean no disrespect to Scooby Doo when I say this, but this is exactly what I mean.  I don't like Scooby's ships at all.  Not even a little.  The models are technically good, but that exemplifies how terrible WC ship designs are (his HD Bearcat is a stronger indictment of WC ship designs than I could ever make).  They're incredibly boring to me.  Knowing that he and I are never going to agree, I try to stay away from his threads.  His art style and mine are incompatible.

If you like like his ships and dislike mine, you and I have nothing to discuss.  I'm never going to make a ship you like.



+1 to Makhpella request to make a new screenshot of Erebus and Titan jumping to Saturn :)
I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Luis Dias on October 24, 2015, 04:05:49 pm
It's gorgeous. Incredible achievement Aesaar, you should be proud :yes:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Dragon on October 24, 2015, 04:58:49 pm
If you like like his ships and dislike mine, you and I have nothing to discuss.  I'm never going to make a ship you like.
Well, to be fair it's not like you never made a ship that I liked. The corvettes were an awesome upgrade (bet you're contemplating remaking those now... :) ). TBH, I often wonder how your style would work on other Stratcomm's ships. You'd have probably liked the GTVA command station, at least (Phoenix and heavy AWACS are likely bizzare enough to end up in "remake from ground up" category).
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: CT27 on October 24, 2015, 11:09:20 pm
I like FS and Wing Commander ships.

In any case, this is a visually awesome upgrade Aesaar, I like your work.  Out of curiosity though, what do you think of the complaint some have that having the beams closer together like that would make them easier to destroy?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Col. Fishguts on October 25, 2015, 07:58:24 am
I like it. A lot :yes:
As cool as StratComms coherent fleet design is, I was never too fond of his insistence on the 5-fold starfish symmetry. So I really like the new look of the Hyperion/Erebus/Titan, where the weird/random shapes dial has been moved down a notch.
Also, besides from the design aspect, I really dig your texturing work :yes:

Bravo, Sir.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on October 26, 2015, 04:25:04 am
Seriously, the new Titan is awesome. The old model was good too, but it needed an update to fit in with BP's new GTVA aesthetic, and the new model certainly does that. They're different ships at this point. Aesaar's titan is a sleek and utilitarian warship, where the older design was obviously trying to evoke the fantastical floating city look ships like the Orion had going on. Aesaar's model fits in much better with BP's tone and direction.

I also think the Beam Array placement on the new model makes more sense, for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Luis Dias on October 26, 2015, 12:38:32 pm
I liked the old "beam Array placement" better, (and I also agree with Battuta's shape criticism) but that's PEANUTS compared to the overall awesomeness of the thing. Let it fly, let it FLY! :D
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Aesaar on October 26, 2015, 12:58:04 pm
I like FS and Wing Commander ships.

In any case, this is a visually awesome upgrade Aesaar, I like your work.  Out of curiosity though, what do you think of the complaint some have that having the beams closer together like that would make them easier to destroy?
They're better protected than the old beams were, both in terms of point-defenses and because only the dishes themselves are vulnerable.  The housings count as hull.  They're also still pretty widely spaced, in absolute terms.


If you like like his ships and dislike mine, you and I have nothing to discuss.  I'm never going to make a ship you like.
Well, to be fair it's not like you never made a ship that I liked. The corvettes were an awesome upgrade (bet you're contemplating remaking those now... :) ). TBH, I often wonder how your style would work on other Stratcomm's ships. You'd have probably liked the GTVA command station, at least (Phoenix and heavy AWACS are likely bizzare enough to end up in "remake from ground up" category).
I'm planning on remodeling the Diomedes, since it was the first model I fully completed and textured, and there's a thousand things I hate about it.  Chimera and Bellerophon are still ok though.

I don't want to remodel the other Stratcomm ships.  If it isn't used in BP, it doesn't really interest me, especially since BP still has models that need replacement and this community has loads of good Terran ships.  I also need to start practicing with Shivan and especially Vasudan ships, and I hate most of Stratcomm's zod ships.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: crizza on October 26, 2015, 02:02:46 pm
Awesome work Aesaar, can't wait to see it in game  :D
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: rubixcube on October 26, 2015, 09:53:27 pm
I like FS and Wing Commander ships.

In any case, this is a visually awesome upgrade Aesaar, I like your work.  Out of curiosity though, what do you think of the complaint some have that having the beams closer together like that would make them easier to destroy?
They're better protected than the old beams were, both in terms of point-defenses and because only the dishes themselves are vulnerable.  The housings count as hull.  They're also still pretty widely spaced, in absolute terms.


If you like like his ships and dislike mine, you and I have nothing to discuss.  I'm never going to make a ship you like.
Well, to be fair it's not like you never made a ship that I liked. The corvettes were an awesome upgrade (bet you're contemplating remaking those now... :) ). TBH, I often wonder how your style would work on other Stratcomm's ships. You'd have probably liked the GTVA command station, at least (Phoenix and heavy AWACS are likely bizzare enough to end up in "remake from ground up" category).
I'm planning on remodeling the Diomedes, since it was the first model I fully completed and textured, and there's a thousand things I hate about it.  Chimera and Bellerophon are still ok though.

Really, the diomedes? that's actually my favorite ship design
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Azrael15 on October 27, 2015, 01:00:04 am
The Diomedes looks awesome, I'd hate to see it changed.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: PsychoLandlord on October 27, 2015, 01:55:28 am
Yeah, the new Diomedes looks good, I'm kinda curious about what you dislike about it.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Luis Dias on October 27, 2015, 05:01:02 am
It's built with high quality, but it's the most boring ship design in BP.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Darius on October 27, 2015, 05:48:55 am
Think of it as another addition to the Aesaar ship pack for people to use!
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on October 27, 2015, 07:28:59 am
The Dio's design reminds me of one of those small rectangular pies:

(http://hungryatmidnight.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/DSC_0745.jpg)

Coincidence?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Luis Dias on October 27, 2015, 07:44:51 am
Now I'm hungry for Diomedes ships.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Aesaar on October 27, 2015, 08:06:33 am
It's not terribly well detailed, it's uvmapped inefficiently, and it generally could be better all around.

The design won't change much, it'll just be modernized and made more interesting.  Should fit in better with the newer ships.  That's for later though.  Got other things I want to tackle first.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Dragon on October 30, 2015, 07:14:26 am
The only thing I'd change is the bridge (it's very different from the later ships), the beams (they're much smaller than TerSlashes on the other ships) and perhaps the drone mounts (they look kind of tacked on, which they were).
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Drogoth on November 02, 2015, 12:44:42 am
Might be just more noise but I'm gonna add my voice to the 'Love the Diomedes' crowd.

Glad to hear the design won't change too much - I always thought it looked sleek but very functional.

The other ships always looked a little ungainly to me, though less so after their updates. I get the logic of shock jumping, but having all that firepower focused forward always gave me the impression that they were just big guns floating around in space. The new Diomedes and to a lesser extent the Deimos are the two ships in FS that just scream SPACESHIP at me, and that's what I love about them.

So vote of confidence to the new Diomedes. It's my favourite ship in FS, across both games and all mods.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Darius on July 20, 2016, 09:39:02 am
Apologies for the

(http://i.imgur.com/kZTSPe9.gif)

but

Holy ****, that Titan looks gorgeous. I had to get used to the Erebus, but this...This is brilliant.

If you could also update this photo whenever you have the time, that would be perfect.
(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/16/15109/AlliancePride.png)




This is my attempt, using draft PBR maps, new lighting and bloom


(http://i.imgur.com/YLxkcYk.jpg)

Edit: Lightened!

Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Thisisaverylongusername on July 20, 2016, 09:59:13 am
 :jaw:
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Makhpella on July 20, 2016, 10:09:42 am
I just noticed, from this angle, that the front of the Titan looks like a helmet with raised visor. Unrelated, felt like sharing. Or a shark lacking a lower jaw. Stil unrelated. Or a Collector. I'm stopping.

That is definitely a very nice photo of both destroyers, Darius. What somewhat rustles my jimmies is the incomplete clearing of the warp effect by the Titan, but it's only minor. The Erebus' bloom around the end of the ship is eye candy. They'd both look quite menacing were you a UEF vessel just happening to stand in front of them as they jumped in.

Thank you for sharing it with us.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Hades on July 20, 2016, 10:42:27 am
I'd like it a lot more if it wasn't too dark
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: CKid on July 20, 2016, 11:06:34 am
10/10
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Luis Dias on July 20, 2016, 11:08:18 am
I'd like it a lot more if it wasn't too dark
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Darius on July 21, 2016, 06:03:14 am
Took out the PBR dark albedo maps.

(http://i.imgur.com/YLxkcYk.jpg)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on July 21, 2016, 06:08:43 am
I just noticed, from this angle, that the front of the Titan looks like a helmet with raised visor. Unrelated, felt like sharing. Or a shark lacking a lower jaw. Stil unrelated. Or a Collector. I'm stopping.

as i recall battuta's first comment was that it looked like a clitoral hood
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: General Battuta on July 21, 2016, 09:47:00 am
That was Doctor Darius!
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: ssmit132 on July 21, 2016, 09:45:10 pm
as i recall battuta's first comment was that it looked like a clitoral hood

The Titan is the Edsel of the GTVA?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: CT27 on July 21, 2016, 10:18:27 pm
This is more of a general TEI question rather than applying to the Titan that's currently being discussed, but:

Are there any pictures out there of Vasudan TEI (BP era) ships?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: AdmiralRalwood on July 22, 2016, 12:32:32 am
Are there any pictures out there of Vasudan TEI (BP era) ships?
Not that I know of. Unless I'm completely misremembering, the Vasudans don't have a TEI-equivalent; instead, they focused more on incremental upgrades to their existing fleet (that being said, there are some new ship classes, but we haven't seen them; if you read the techroom entries for Vasudan warships, you can find references on some of them to either modernized variants of FS2-era ships, or brand-new ship classes). It seems unlikely, in my personal opinion, that we'll see shiny new Zod warships before BP3.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 22, 2016, 01:12:30 am
TEI is Tev only. The Zods have new toys (for which the game assets haven't been selected/completed yet, which is why we have nothing to show), but the fleet organization is vastly different and doesn't follow the same tiers as the Tevs and their TEI.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Mammothtank on July 22, 2016, 02:36:34 am
I just noticed, from this angle, that the front of the Titan looks like a helmet with raised visor. Unrelated, felt like sharing. Or a shark lacking a lower jaw. Stil unrelated. Or a Collector. I'm stopping.

as i recall battuta's first comment was that it looked like a clitoral hood

You've made me see something I can't unsee.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Darius on July 22, 2016, 03:51:27 am
And it doesn't reinforce the narrative metaphor of the nurturing maternal Temeraire and the distant paternal Orestes at all!
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: T-Man on July 22, 2016, 04:04:23 am
I just noticed, from this angle, that the front of the Titan looks like a helmet with raised visor. Unrelated, felt like sharing. Or a shark lacking a lower jaw. Stil unrelated. Or a Collector. I'm stopping.
as i recall battuta's first comment was that it looked like a clitoral hood
You've made me see something I can't unsee.

And it doesn't reinforce the narrative metaphor of the nurturing maternal Temeraire and the distant paternal Orestes at all!

Is there a Freudian in the house? Your gonna diiiiiig this!


Do love that image though; the PBR makes ships look glorious (didn't realise they had integrated it at first and was really confused when everything suddenly looked different in a new nightly :lol:).
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: CT27 on July 22, 2016, 04:24:11 pm
TEI is Tev only. The Zods have new toys (for which the game assets haven't been selected/completed yet, which is why we have nothing to show), but the fleet organization is vastly different and doesn't follow the same tiers as the Tevs and their TEI.

What do you mean that Terran and Vasudan BP fleet organizations are different?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Scotty on July 22, 2016, 04:39:27 pm
He means that Vasudans don't (necessarily) use Battlegroups or deploy their organizational structure along cruiser/corvette division lines with a pair of Destroyers acting as battlegroup/squadron CIC, reserve, and breakthrough assets.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: General Battuta on July 22, 2016, 10:56:50 pm
There's the fleet/medjai distinction too. History is full of interesting examples of what happens when you split your military from your palace guard.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: crizza on July 23, 2016, 06:14:16 am
But wasn't the Battlegroup system a Vasudan system to begin with? :D
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Scotty on July 23, 2016, 04:05:10 pm
So?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: General Battuta on July 23, 2016, 04:37:11 pm
Vasudans do use battlegroups iirc?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on July 23, 2016, 05:10:18 pm
Yes.
The Psamtik is part of the 14th13th Vasudan BG.
(iirc)
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Scotty on July 23, 2016, 09:19:10 pm
My point was that there are a number of ways that Vasudan fleet structure could differ from Terran fleet structure.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: crizza on July 23, 2016, 09:34:15 pm
TEI is Tev only. The Zods have new toys (for which the game assets haven't been selected/completed yet, which is why we have nothing to show), but the fleet organization is vastly different and doesn't follow the same tiers as the Tevs and their TEI.
I was just going about the point, that Zods use another organisation thiny, not more or less
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Droid803 on July 23, 2016, 10:31:49 pm
The only canonically known vasudan fleet organization in FS2 is the 13th Battlegroup, based in Deneb, of which the Psamtik was the command ship until it met its end.
(source: FS wiki)
So they did, at least at the time of FS2.
Terrans have always just had "fleets", with no mention of battlegroups if i recall correctly.

Given that's all we ever hear of vasudan fleet structure (that they have a 13th battle group)...discarding it entirely saying "Vasudans don't use battlegroups anymore, but now Terrans do!" feels a bit strange.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: General Battuta on July 23, 2016, 11:04:39 pm
Bwhuh wuw what is happening

Vasudans still use battle groups
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Mammothtank on July 23, 2016, 11:28:51 pm
I'm also a bit confused. I think people misunderstood what MatthTheGeek said about the Tev and Vasudan fleet structure. And now some people think that the other people think Vasudan's don't use BattleGroups. Which isn't what was said.

I think we should all put the Ranch Dressing away.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 24, 2016, 12:54:05 am
I was talking mostly about technological tiers, Terrans have quite obvious lines drawn between Capella-era tech and TEI tech, with very little blending between the two.

Zods are more diffuse, and more prone to keep retrofitting and upgrading to modern standards their older designs way past the point Terrans would have decommissioned them (remember how the appolo and valk were already decommissioned by Capella, but Seth and Horus upgrades are still in use by the Zod military in the WiH era, and they even deploy Aten cruisers in militarily contested areas). They do not have an equivalent to TEI because they do not think of fleet organization in term of design generations with an expected operational lifetime, scheduled to be replaced every X years (this sentence is obviously an oversimplification of the way Tevs operate, but I think it carries the point across).

Although this is only relevant to the mainstay Zod fleet. The Medjai is an entirely different story.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: CT27 on July 26, 2016, 02:28:02 pm
In terms of the Vasudans upgrading old designs rather than creating new ones...didn't Freespace 2 say the upgraded Typhon class was kind of a mess?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: General Battuta on July 26, 2016, 02:44:03 pm
Vasudan development in general is quite idiosyncratic. Check out the new techroom.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Nova Terran on July 27, 2016, 01:12:58 am
In terms of the Vasudans upgrading old designs rather than creating new ones...didn't Freespace 2 say the upgraded Typhon class was kind of a mess?

I suspect that "power grid issues" were actually the shenanigans pulled by Kames Admiralty as they did with Mentu.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: CT27 on July 27, 2016, 02:00:27 pm
So a rough analogy to ship development would be:
Terrans make Windows 10
Vasudans keep issuing service packs to Windows 7/8.1?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: MatthTheGeek on July 28, 2016, 01:22:05 am
Terrans would have a fleet comprised of aging win7 machines and newer win10 machines. They've ditched all the winXP machines.

The Zods would have a haphazard fleet composed of very old (they still have late 90s and early 2000s machines running) to very new machines, sporting various flavours of (mostly) recent linux kernels, and try to keep driver compatibility all around. This may seem suboptimal to a Terran, but they still manage to keep all their software running and can gather more processing power than the Terrans can.

And then there's the Medjai server farm hidden somewhere in the corner.

In this metaphor the hardware represents the age of the ship design and the software the tech level used in the ship.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: crizza on July 30, 2016, 05:47:38 am
Is the... Shepsekaff or however that DD is written a Hatshepsut Amaru?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: CT27 on July 30, 2016, 08:37:19 pm
Terrans would have a fleet comprised of aging win7 machines and newer win10 machines. They've ditched all the winXP machines.

The Zods would have a haphazard fleet composed of very old (they still have late 90s and early 2000s machines running) to very new machines, sporting various flavours of (mostly) recent linux kernels, and try to keep driver compatibility all around. This may seem suboptimal to a Terran, but they still manage to keep all their software running and can gather more processing power than the Terrans can.

And then there's the Medjai server farm hidden somewhere in the corner.

In this metaphor the hardware represents the age of the ship design and the software the tech level used in the ship.

Would Shivans be Apple then?
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: FrikgFeek on July 30, 2016, 11:28:15 pm
No, shivans would be pure hax.
Title: Re: Warships of the TEI (GTD Titan WIP)
Post by: Phantom Hoover on July 31, 2016, 05:43:21 am
The Shivans would be a supercomputer from the future running every virus in existence.