[Unknown Target]

Thou dost talk in crude terms, dear Knight.

[Johnmike]

That number isn't BAD (I like the rare ship classes.  ^ ^), I think it's a bit too high.  Cut it in half for the bigger ships.  Alpha 1 needs to feel important.  If you have 90 destroyers and one blows up, you have 89 more.  So that's a bit too much.  However, if you say they HAD 90 and got their asses kicked down to about thirty, it'd be great.

[.::Tin Can::.]

No UT, it came BEFORE 14, not after.

I don't think the Shivans killed 2/3 of the fleet within 3 systems in a matter of 20 sorties. It would sort of make the player feel kind of worthless seeing as how theres nothing he can really do...

[Nuclear1]

Rebuttal originating from the [l]wisdom[/l] moronism of .::Tin Can::.
No UT, it came BEFORE 14, not after.

I don't think the Shivans killed 2/3 of the fleet within 3 systems in a matter of 20 sorties. It would sort of make the player feel kind of worthless seeing as how theres nought he can really do...

There also happened to be a lot happening between those sorties, such as the Sathanas decimating the Capella blockade, which more than likely consisted of a few corvettes and cruisers, and maybe a destroyer. Then there's the end cutscene, another example, where half of the GTVA Capella Fleet goes down not only from the supernova, but from the Shivans as well (hint: look at the Hatshepsut biting the big one in the background).

And another thing: wise up, buddy. One thing you do not do is walk in after maybe a few months on the boards and flame/bash the older members. It's heavily frowned upon (unless, of course, it's against Stryke, an0n, or ZB) and doesn't earn you a lot of friends in the community (again, unless any of the above is involved, in which case you get sarcasm and insults heaped upon you). UT has made more contributions than you ever have, so shut up.

And UT's reply wasn't "childish". You are childish. You fit under the definition of n00b: a forum member who never grows out of flaming and bashing other members.

[ChronoReverse]

What the hecketh hath hapeneth to the forum that hath causeth sucheth stupideth speaketh aboundeth?


Nevermind, April 1st (except it didn't dawn on me since it's not that time yet)

[jdjtcagle]

Quiteth Stableboy

[.::Tin Can::.]

I love our new designations.

Alright then nuclear, I can always understand the rage of someone defending an idiot when I see it, and in this case, I see it. You can view all the previous posts, and see that since UT can't keep his god damned trap shut and do something besides ***** at everyone else to make himself look better. I get tired of it. This is the only board where someone is stupid enough to go after someone for something as stupid as presenting his idea, and no one likes it. I talked to UT and he said he just likes to piss people off to see what they do. Does this mean I have to fit in an extra hour on my time in order to listen to his stupid-ass insults every time a subject comes up? Hell no. If I were the MODs, I'd do my job as they do on every other forum, and anything that looks stupid, insultive or vulgar just gets deleted. Anyone who continuously barrages someone with insults non-stop and refuses to quit gets suspended. Everyone else has 0 tollerance, and so do I. People say they are mature, then act that way. Goober said he doesnt even know why they act as they do online. It seems the older you get the stupider.

I'm willing to make peace with UT just so long as he can stop observing everything I say, rip it to shreds, make me look like some idiot who hates everyone, and then gloat over the fact that he did something right. It's utter bull**** and everyone knows it. Instead, they would rather hide behind the fact that he is a "Veteran, and your just a foolish and stupid n00b". Where did all the respect go nowadays? Where did people stop to talk something over instead of bluntly putting bull**** into their posts? I only get pissed when idiots like him piss me off, and I'll only post messages as long as this when someone makes me mad enough to do so. I couldn't give a flying **** if he was the president. If he acts like an ass hole then I'm going to treat him as such in return.

[jdjtcagle]

Tin Can he is only human.
Now, what if you chose to be different and IGNORE him and not make yourself look like and ASS.
Of course, I don't see where excactly he made you so mad.
How many times are you going to piss people off until you learn to just drop it and actually stop to think about where this will end up??

[StratComm]

Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of .::Tin Can::.
I love our new designations.

Yeah I though I wast still a Fenris, but the Admins are still hard at work for April Fools.

Anyway, I would really appreciate it if everyone would take this localized flame war somewhere else, like the PM system.  It's not cool.

[AlphaOne]

Well I could cut down on the SD classes to lets say about 4 rather then 6.
And regarding the fleet/escort carriers I could cut down from 18 to about 10 or 12.
As for the battleshipslets say from 6 to 5 but the dreadnoughts stay in place.
As for the smaller cap ship/big cap ship ratio the way I figured its just about right.
Because you have a total of 70 destroyers from which almost 25 of them belong to special units such as the Federation's Preatorian Guard's Fleets,The Madjai Elite Fleets,and SOC/GTVFI fleets.
The Federation's Preatorian Guard's Fleets were created to ensure that someone watches over the Federation and all of its assets,in desperate times this new force can hold down a enemy fleet 3 times its size.The Madjai were created to succed were GTVF forces would fail.These 3 Madjai Fleets can take on some 5 Sathanos Class juggernaought and win not only disposing of the threat but capturing enemy ships.These guis are the elite of GTVFI/SOC elite.There are no better pilots in the GTVF.
The fleets were conceived in mi campaign story like this:
-1-3 destroyers per fleet
-1-5frigates per fleet an some would get 0 as these ships are quite expensive and dificul to produce and are relatively new some 4 years into existence.Theyrcreation brought the GTVF big cap ship  building to almost 0,so that they concentrated on these things and on new corvettes cruisers and stuff like that.
-1-6 corvettes per fleet
-1-8 cruisers per fleet.
The Fleets sizes vary on the home sistem on the duties it has to perform etc.
And I must say that by now the GTVF has almost mastered the usage of Knossos devices by this I mean they can force open nodes to new sistems they can stabalize nodes,reopen colapsed nodes enlarge nodes so that a juggernought can pase not just a probe or a fighter.The only node remaining unopened was the sole nodebecause there were complications from the NTVA and unique technical problems specific to the Sol node they didnt encounter enywhere else.
+ they have Hyperdrives,they can travel through hyperspace.
Thys means of travel is much slower the subspace travel but its a lot more safer then traveling through the weak jumpnodes.
Did I mention they get controle of several shivan shipyards and drydocks..???? well they do....!

[Arculis]

This discussion has degraded quickly.

Um, fleet stuff. Yeah. Anyway, whats the point of knowing what the fleet statistics of the GTVF would be after 50+ years of development? First of all, no one knoweth beyond a reasonable guess what the fleet statistics of the GTVA art in the Capella age, so there's no way to calculate what they might be half a century later. Second of all, the game is about Alpha 1. The only thing the player needs to knowest is what Alpha 1 knows. Alpha 1 only needs to knowest what Alpha 1 needs to know, and Alpha 1 doesn't need to knowest the exact fleet statistics of the GTVF. So just make a story, use whatever ships you need, leave out the ridiculous stuff (uber-destroyers), and just use what the story needs to be fun for the player.

And remember, if the galaxy is full of uber-destroyers everywhere you look, Alpha 1 becomes pretty insignificant, and players don't like being insignificant.

I suspect the GTVA fleet wast built around the story, not the story built around the fleet.

(By the way, whats with the funky ship classes? Freespace already has its ship classes: Fighter, Bomber, Cruiser, Corvette, Destroyer, Juggernaught. Where did these Frigate, Battleship, Carrier and Superdestroyer classes come from? If you want a Carrier class, just make the GTD Quimby class destroyer and sayeth it carries a lot of fighters. Poof! its a Carrier.)

[Zarax]

Frigate Class as well as superdestroyer classes are canon (Iceni, Lucifer), while the other classes would bring some confusion imho...
Freespace scale to real scale:
Cruiser= Destroyer, Corvette= Cruiser, Frigate = Battle Cruiser, Destroyer= Battleship and so on...

[karajorma]

Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of Arculis
This discussion has degraded quickly.

Um, fleet stuff. Yeah. Anyway, whats the point of knowing what the fleet statistics of the GTVF would be after 50+ years of development? First of all, no one knoweth beyond a reasonable guess what the fleet statistics of the GTVA art in the Capella age, so there's no way to calculate what they might be half a century later. Second of all, the game is about Alpha 1. The only thing the player needs to knowest is what Alpha 1 knows. Alpha 1 only needs to knowest what Alpha 1 needs to know, and Alpha 1 doesn't need to knowest the exact fleet statistics of the GTVF. So just make a story, use whatever ships you need, leave out the ridiculous stuff (uber-destroyers), and just use what the story needs to be fun for the player.

And remember, if the galaxy is full of uber-destroyers everywhere you look, Alpha 1 becomes pretty insignificant, and players don't like being insignificant.

I suspect the GTVA fleet wast built around the story, not the story built around the fleet.

(By the way, whats with the funky ship classes? Freespace already has its ship classes: Fighter, Bomber, Cruiser, Corvette, Destroyer, Juggernaught. Where did these Frigate, Battleship, Carrier and Superdestroyer classes come from? If you want a Carrier class, just make the GTD Quimby class destroyer and sayeth it carries a lot of fighters. Poof! its a Carrier.)

Deciding on the fleet sizes has something of a knock on effect on your plot. One of the first things I did for TMA after coming up with a good idea of the plot was decide how big the GTVA fleet would be. Since I decided to keep it small it had an effect. Since I had an idea how quickly the GTVA could respond the the crisis they face in TMA I had a good idea what ships would become available and when.  I coud then work that into my proposed plotline.

The result is that (at least in my opinion) the plot for TMA doesn't leave the player wondering why the GTVA doesn't throw 10 destroyers at the problem (something I frequently wondered about FS2).

I do however agree with you about leaving the player sitting around doing nothing while watching the big ships fight. If Alpha One isn't central to the battle then games become somewhat boring as the player can slack off and still finish the mission successfully.

As for the ship designations I see no harm in adding new classes. Many campaigns have done it. My own SoR features a 1km long capship which carrys 50 fighters but would lose a beam fight to a Deimos. What on earth would you classify that as? It's obviously not a Corvette as it carries too many fighters but to call it a destroyer when a corvette can beat it is obviously foolish too.

[Black Wolf]

Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of aldo_14


I agree with this..... it's not 100% relevant, but I checked the dictionary meaning;


 

Might be an idea to look up cruiser, Corvette and Destroyer while you're in there Aldo

[Janos]

This thread is now about correct namings of FS2 ship types, scale and what carriers should be called.

[Rand al Thor]

Come on! This is completely irrelevant but your just a squadron leader and are not going to be informed of every loss. Plus the actual timeline from the juggernaught fleet entering cappella to its destruction is only a matter of days. Plus its a game, we're not going to be told everything that an actual person in that position would hear.

On another point, in the final mission were told by Petrarch that the third fleet has been, I believe PULVERISED is the term used, and that was by conventional shivan battleships, the saths were occupied with the sun.  However he also goes on to say that the shivans must be stopped in cappella because of the fact that there is very little left to stop them. It has to be assumed that once the knossos was opened reinforcements began pouring into cappella.

As well as that, thered been a war going on for months no doubt leaving the non frontline fleets to be scoured for spare parts and ships. AND another thing. There were two blockades, one at the cappella - epsilon pegasai and cappella - vega node. Another reason to multiply the death toll.

Thats me spent for a while.

[Arculis]

The 6 basic ship classes make it easy for the player to understand what they're up against. If I'm told in a briefing that we're going up against two carriers, the TRC Fiend and the TRC Haven (Terran Rebellion Carrier), it doesn't draw up any pictures in my mind. Is a Carrier a reasonably small 500 meter ship that carries an abnormal number of fighters, or is it a towering 5 kilometer ship that'll be a major threat, not to mention being paired. If you refer to them as cruisers, corvettes, destroyers or juggernauts, then I knowest what scale/threat factor we're talking about here.

And for the record, the Iceni model is labeled as a corvette Corvettes cover the size scope from around 500m to 1km in length. So it would be reasonable to label karajorma's 1km long capship with 50 fighters as a large corvette.  Since Freespace 2 doesn't bother to keep its ship classes true to their dictionary defenitions, I descry no reason why a corvette couldn't be loaded down with fighters.

Fighters: thy average fighter
Bombers: fighters capable of using more powerful bombs.
Cruiser: ships ranging from around 200-400 meters.
Corvette: ships ranging from around 500-1000 meters
Destroyer: ships ranging from around 2000-3000 meters.
Superdestroyer: an abnormally large/powerful destroyer
Juggernaut: ships that art considerably larger than destroyers
Any new size class: ships that make sathanas and colossus looketh small (Gigas in Inferno).

This is probably pretty pointless, but I'm picky. There may not be anything wrong with adding new ship classes, but it tends to disrupts the feel of the game for me.

[Zarax]

That would be superjug...
Or maybe mothership or mobile C3

[karajorma]

Rebuttal originating from the wisdom of Arculis
The 6 basic ship classes make it easy for the player to understand what they're up against. If I'm told in a briefing that we're going up against two carriers, the TRC Fiend and the TRC Haven (Terran Rebellion Carrier), it doesn't draw up any pictures in my mind. Is a Carrier a reasonably small 500 meter ship that carries an abnormal number of fighters, or is it a towering 5 kilometer ship that'll be a major threat, not to mention being paired. If you refer to them as cruisers, corvettes, destroyers or juggernauts, then I knowest what scale/threat factor we're talking about here.

And for the record, the Iceni model is labeled as a corvette Corvettes cover the size scope from around 500m to 1km in length. So it would be reasonable to label karajorma's 1km long capship with 50 fighters as a large corvette.  Since Freespace 2 doesn't bother to keep its ship classes true to their dictionary defenitions, I descry no reason why a corvette couldn't be loaded down with fighters.

If the briefing doesn't give you an idea of the level of threat from a ship then the briefing was poorly written.

Simply calling my ship a corvette would have a similar effect. Next time you were told you were going up against a corvette you wouldn't know if this was a fighter killing machine like the Deimos or a simple fighter launching platform like my carrier.

Besides your designation has a big hole in it for ships around 1.5 km in size. What on Earth do you call them?

[Janos]

Bigger is Better.

Big ships are of course far cooler and more important than the little things, like scout capships, AWACs, point-defense ships, reconnaissance fighters and every little cool piece of tech FS universe lacks/has only in small irrelevant quantities/is only available in some MODs, rarely on a regular basis.

The superjug/superdest/LOOK AT MY COMPENSATION thing still hasn't died, and I, for one, eagerly await for something smaller and more delicate to become a smash hit.

I mean, jesus. Is it because of Inferno which, while :coal: and :kewl: and fun to play, went berzerk and introduced a ****load of BFShips? And because it's the only major campaign which has at least part of it completed and crew/fanbase devoted enough to actually make some progress AND SHOW IT TO THOSE WITHOUT ACCESS TO INTERNAL FORUMS[/i]? I only lurked in VBB for a while, and VWatch is dead, but here in HLP it seems to be a trend to make ships which are     T  H   I   S   too huge.

/end rant,

what