[Dark Hunter]

The slash beams I always thought were put in for eyecandy effect. They miss so often that they're practically worthless in anti-capship warfare.

[Mobius]

Completely correct. They're just foe Eyecandy.

You surprised me, DH. I couldn't imagine you would have come out with a so intelligent sentence

[Qwer]

Slash-type beams aren't crap, they also don't miss often (or at least I haven't seen such things), they simply have different effects because they move through target's profile dealing damage to multiple areas, stream often goes beyond profile, so some damage miss target, but they have much more chance of hitting turret/subsystem than standard beams. They're simply defensive beams, while standard ones are offensive.

[Mobius]

Well you're damn right if you consider the Hades, for example. It's engines are damn weak.

[Snail]

Inferno has a MRed

You think a super-obsessed Inferno fan boy wouldn't know that!?

[Mobius]

But we're not in the Inferno board, so no one is supposed to know that there are MReds in Inferno.

[Snail]

I guess.


Well the Moloch needs a medium beam OR a ****load of SReds to be effective (I'm talking about 8 beams in good positions). The Moloch can't do enough damage to targets of size before being destroyed. The Rakshasa or Lilith (with its jolly old LRed) is good for that purpose.

[Mobius]

If you look the Moloch you realize that it's intended as an oversized cruiser, able to launch fighters. I'm pretty sure [V] would have used a second class of Shivan corvettes in FS3, much heavier than the Moloch.

[Snail]

Such as the Byrn/Scylla?

[Qwer]

Moloch doesn't need more/better beams, its 3 SReds are good enough to support fighters, which are its primary weapon. Moloch *will* win with Deimos if you count its fighters in, it'll either launch fighters to disarm Deimos or bombers to seriously damage it (I can't say anything exact as I don't know how many fighters/bombers does Moloch have).

[AlphaOne]

Well basicly what is required here or rather what has been described here is a poket size carrier with some ac weaponry. Something a bit bigger then a corvette yet smaller then a destroyer with one beam cannon hjeavy tipe or a pair of slashers . It has to be cheap fast and prove to be a good ship for the fleet. Basicly a poket carrier with a few wings on it maib e 10 wings which would be its primary weapons acompanied by battle corvettes or normal corvettes .

[Qwer]

AlphaOne - beam cannon on your carrier limits its loadout by about 5 wings (20 total), IMHO carriers should be ships without any AC weaponry.

[aldo_14]

Well basicly what is required here or rather what has been described here is a poket size carrier with some ac weaponry. Something a bit bigger then a corvette yet smaller then a destroyer with one beam cannon hjeavy tipe or a pair of slashers . It has to be cheap fast and prove to be a good ship for the fleet. Basicly a poket carrier with a few wings on it maib e 10 wings which would be its primary weapons acompanied by battle corvettes or normal corvettes .

Only mounting one uber-beam on a ship doesn't equate to balance, y'know

In all seriousness I think to have any sort of dedicated carrier vessel requires massively limiting its loadout, probably to a defensive-only level of flak and AAAf weapons.  Otherwise it's simply not different enough to justify the new designation.

[Mobius]

In the real world, carriers are much more important than destroyers(and they're also bigger). Inferno carriers represent well the idea of some kind of "mother-warship", the real center of its fleet.

There might be light carriers, of course...

[Dysko]

Carriers may be much more important than destroyers, but remember that without destroyers the carrier has an higher probability of being attacked and seriously damaged, because aircrafts can't be airborne forever, while escort ships can remain on station for months.

[Mobius]

...It has nothing to do with our current discussion and IMHO carriers carry <--  --> more spacecraft than the other warships of a fleet put together.

[Sarafan]

You know, I never meant this to be a pocket carrier or carrier of any sort, its simply a corvette with a fighterbay (capable of having 2 or 3 wings, nothing above that), in other words, a GTVA version of the Moloch. IMO it would be really worth it, something with 3 medium anticap beams, not much on AAA weapons since it would carry its own escort around.

[AlphaOne]

well if we are talking about fs era carriers then tha is not correct. The shivan corvette could be considered as some sort of heavely armed poket carrier yet has very few spacecrafts to speak of. Also Destroyers are a hibri design between carriers and a dedicated warship. Therefore they have a limited amount of spacecrafts available on hand compared to they huge size. Strip out the repair facilaties, fule storage for the spacecrafts armaments spare parts and i bet you could put at least 2 more beam cannons on the thing .

While a dedicated carrier while I agree that it should have just aaaf weaponry on it is rather a bad idea because shivans have a nasty habbit of breaking through the fighter bommber screen of a ship to take it head on that is why I was talking about ac weaponry on it.

However a dedicated corvette well rather a bit bigger then a corvette would be very usefull IMO . Give it the abilaty to cary 5 or more wings 10 seems to be a very good number to me . This way you have a significant force projection on it and coupled with a pair of Aeoulous or other corvettes and you have a sizebable force guarding a sistem because to me it seems a waste of time to have the destroyer fleet scatered across all of the GTVA controled space instead of grouping them toghether in a more powerfull fleet. Perhaps something like 3 or more destroyers per fleet grouped around the most important sistems and/or near hot spots or the front lines.

This way you have the abilaty to strike the enemy much faster and harder then before while leaving a sizebable force to patroll other sistems wihtout afecting the overall power of the war fleet.

[Mobius]

They have a lot of spacecraft available.

Think about the Demon or the Ravana: both destroyers can carry many spacecraft thanks to their shape. The Sathanas should also carry an incredible amount of spacecraft. Only a small part of the Colossus' hull is dedicated to spacecraft.


The Shivans might not rely so much on vessels between the cruiser and the destroyer since they have superdestroyers and juggernauts that can pulverize planets and star systems. Both the Terrans and the Vasudans rely on corvettes as exploited by the tech description of both the Deimos and the Sobek.

[Qwer]

While a dedicated carrier while I agree that it should have just aaaf weaponry on it is rather a bad idea because shivans have a nasty habbit of breaking through the fighter bommber screen of a ship to take it head on that is why I was talking about ac weaponry on it.

However a dedicated corvette well rather a bit bigger then a corvette would be very usefull IMO . Give it the abilaty to cary 5 or more wings 10 seems to be a very good number to me .

Your 5-10 fighter wings is WAY too small count for a light carrier. See how your beam limits its abilities of carrying fighters? It could have even up to 20 wings without your beams (depending on size, but I think about 1,2km long one should be able to have that number). Also situation when Shivan capital ships attacks carrier isn't so simple as you say. Carriers are supposed to hide inside system in places such as asteroid fields or nebulas where enemy sensors are completly jammed and their detection via standard means is impossible (evidences is in both FS1, where detection of Vasudan fighters in quite small asteroid field was very hard and FS2, where NTF cargo depot was very well hidden inside similar asteroid field). Shivans have got ability of detecting jump signatures inside whole solar system which may blow carriers' cover, but when GTVA is defending their own territory, it can make some carriers to hide and do no actions (which will hide them from Shivan subspace detection) and some to reveal themselves and draw Shivans' attention. Fighting carriers will be probably wiped out (but not so fast as modern carriers will probably have multiple jump drives to make jumps more often and avoid direct confrontation), but engaged Shivans will create hole which can be later used by hided forces and deal serious casualities to them.

Think about the Demon or the Ravana: both destroyers can carry many spacecraft thanks to their shape. The Sathanas should also carry an incredible amount of spacecraft. Only a small part of the Colossus' hull is dedicated to spacecraft.

Actually we've got no idea how many fighters do they have. Basing on in-game experience Demon has got minimal count as about 50 fighters, while Ravana and Sathanas 100. Sure, they could carry more, but that'd create VERY serious tech hole beetwen large and small Shivan vessels as destroyers and juggernauths would be much more uber than cruisers and corvettes. Also Sathanas isn't that large as for the first look (take a closer look at it and you'll discover it's overall capacity is only little larger than Colossus'). IMHO Sathanas is filled with reactors, which deliver their power to main cannons and subspace weapon, while Colossus by housing 2,5 times more fighters has got fewer reactors and, as a result, limited firepower.