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Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Inferno => Topic started by: spartan_0214 on February 28, 2006, 01:45:54 pm

Title: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on February 28, 2006, 01:45:54 pm
here's a simple idea (with a very very very hard execution) on how they might destroy the Gargant: 

Board the Gigas, take it over, steal the technology, use our new technology and the Gigas to destroy the Gargant. . .

please, below, tell me what u think of this idear. . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on February 28, 2006, 01:49:30 pm
The problem that Shivan ships (or at least the Nyarlathotep) are self-aware...... be the Nyarlathotep Incident all over again.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on February 28, 2006, 01:55:09 pm
however, with recent (relatively for FS2) development of technologies, it might be possible for a Mjolnir Mark II cannon to have been developed.  Also, shouldn't we have been developing new types of hand weapons (such as rocket launchers) that could disrupt the link between the Shivan bodies and the Shivan sub-space "beings"?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on February 28, 2006, 01:56:29 pm
That Shivans are subspace beings is a theory....its never been proven. You'd have to check with the orirginal desgners, and last I heard, they weren't talking.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on February 28, 2006, 02:08:05 pm
HOWEVER, why don't we just develop an EMP weapon that disrupts theirt neural network (yes, a quote from Rep Comm)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on February 28, 2006, 02:10:32 pm
We don't know anything about Shivan anatomy, or even if EMP would have an effect on them.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on February 28, 2006, 02:10:52 pm
do you even know what an EMP does to humans? ? ? (if it's powerful enough)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on February 28, 2006, 02:12:18 pm
yeah....what it does to humans not Shivans. We know they manipulate subspace energies very well (*cough* Capella *cough*) why not other forms of energy??
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on February 28, 2006, 02:13:21 pm
it can kill them (it renders the nervous system useless, for those of us who know anything about the system, electronic pulses tell your muscles to expand or contract).  If u are able to disable this system. . . . .well, good-bye human. . .


also, we know nothing about the Shivans, but we could at least send them with rocket launchers for backups (rls for backups? ? ? ?   trippy)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: mr.WHO on February 28, 2006, 02:17:22 pm
Yeah, right, board the ship with about 20 milions of angry bloodthirsy crew  :doubt:

Think: Why it have SH tag ??  Shivan Hive...
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on February 28, 2006, 02:57:29 pm
He said board the Gigas not the Gargant, but you'd still need about 100 transports to do even that :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on February 28, 2006, 05:51:45 pm
all we/they need to do is develop a sidearm that will disable their bodies. . . . listen to what darkhunter said earlier about different forms of energy
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 28, 2006, 09:59:09 pm
The problem that Shivan ships (or at least the Nyarlathotep) are self-aware...... be the Nyarlathotep Incident all over again.

That's Derelict, not Inferno. No connection. :p Given the Shivans are at least partially cybernetic an EMP sounds like it might be effective...but then one would have expected to see sudden decreases in the combat performance of nearby Shivan craft (or the Lucy itself) in "Good Luck" when the Harbingers start going off. You don't, so they're hardened against EMP from a real nuclear blast of considerable proportions, nevermind anything a handheld weapon could generate.

The Shivans are most effective at short ranges. The problem is that their interior ship design is (intentionally?) such that you don't really get enough room to stop them via firepower. Boarding a Shivan ship is probably a bit like playing WH40K's Space Hulk: charge in to find an area with a long corridor, then set up there and throw a wall of lead down the corridor at anything that moves. Eventually you'll kill most of them, then you go hunting for the rest.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Mewgen1 on February 28, 2006, 10:01:20 pm
Ok, this may be slightly off topic but, why did the GTVA stop research into shivan anatomy after the Hades rebellion?  For that matter what happened to all the data that was gathered from the GTI? :confused: To the best of my knowledge it wasn't shivan influence that caused the GTI to go rogue.  And while I admit that the Hades was built with shivan tech, it seems that a good portion of the GTVA's modern technology was taken from research into the shivans.  And now we come to this present discussion, in which, with a little more knowledge about shivans, we might be able jam their communications.  I don’t see why the GTVA would purposefully close the door on a branch of research that could save the galaxy as we know it from the greatest threat known to mankind (or vasudan-kind).

Oh and back on the topic of destroying the garghant.  What would happen if a ship opened an intrasystem jump point right into the middle of a star?  From what I understand the intrasystem variety of jumps doesn’t pass through the same tunnel that an intersystem jump does.  If that is the case, then wouldn’t the nuclear pressure in the star force stellar fuel out through the open jump point?  From what I understand a star is actually a very delicate balance between the gravitational forces (pushing the matter in the star towards a single point) and the nuclear forces in the core (pushing the matter in the star outwards).  If enough of that matter were to be removed gravity would win out and the star would collapse into a supernova (oh the things you can learn from Stargate).  Obviously a fighter wouldn’t do much to upset the balance, but if a much larger ship (say the Icanus) or a whole fleet of ships were to do the same thing it might just force out enough fuel in the few seconds that the ship(s) survived the massive heat and pressure to cause the star to explode.

Anyways just my .02 standard monetary units.  Cya
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 01, 2006, 04:11:51 am
If that did work the Shivans could just send Gargant 2 and you've just ran out of super ships to blow stars up :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Mewgen1 on March 01, 2006, 01:49:05 pm
Hm, I was under the impression that there was only 1 gargant, but I suppose its up to the team.  Still you could just stick a jump drive on a station. ;)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 01, 2006, 03:40:53 pm
In reply first to Mewgen1: I believe that the GTA shut down all projects after the Hades Rebellion to prevent another from happening. In the main campaign Admiral Bosch mentions that he had to resurrect the ETAK research from GTI.


Secondly, when I mentioned the Nyarlathotep, I was under the impression that if one Shivan ship was self-aware... they'd all be. Forgive me for enjoying continuity in all these (well, most anyway) campaigns.

I do believe that we could try taking a few Shivan cap ships though, maybe not as big as the Gigas, but a Sathanas, a Diablo, or even a Kismat might help... understand their tech, maybe find an inherent weakness in Shivan technologies. As far as I know, the only captured ships have been: the Taranis (blown up by Lucifer), the Nyarlathotep (awakened and caused several systems' worth of trouble in a very short time), and that cruiser in Derelict that they used as bait for the Gorgon Cannon.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: ToecrusherHammerjaw on March 01, 2006, 03:50:00 pm
Let's not forget the Dragon fighter in "Playing Judas" and a handful of Maras in "Into The Lion's Den".
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 01, 2006, 04:16:23 pm
Secondly, when I mentioned the Nyarlathotep, I was under the impression that if one Shivan ship was self-aware... they'd all be. Forgive me for enjoying continuity in all these (well, most anyway) campaigns.
That's Derelict only.

The only major Shivan capture that is known about is the Taranis (I consider the dragon and maras not major)
Capturing a cain class cruiser is completely different than capturing a Sathanas.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 01, 2006, 04:38:51 pm
well well well, shouldn't we be theoizing that these campaigns should be somewhat co-linear. . . .. (is that the word I'm looking for?)  well, anyway, alongside the Vasudans, we could pull this off. . . . 

also, the sidearms have been improved over eighty years (if I and darkhunter's calculations are correct). . . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on March 01, 2006, 05:25:31 pm
To take over a shivan cap ship... easy as pie!
Send in the Pyros!
Prepare for Descent...
 :lol:
But anyways, if anybody noticed, does the Gargant have the same stabilizer subsystems that the Gigas has?  You might want to try nuking those with a few hundred bombers and see what happens.  Also, I believe there are probably several reactor subsystems, if it is similar to the Gigas...a few Pyros later, all the Shivans scream as they hear:
Self-Destruct Sequence Activated!
 :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 01, 2006, 07:40:59 pm
Yeah, I've made the point that GTVA weaponry has gotten considerably better since Hallfight, if the fighting aboard the Iceni is to be taken as an indication. Yes, the NTF crewers died in the thousands according to that Vasudan marine, but he also noted a significant number of Shivan bodies. Figuring even 1 in 10 was a dead Shivan, and most of the Iceni crew would have had sidearms (if they had anything at all!) GTVA handheld weapons have gotten considerably more deadly since the Great War, and that's only by FS2.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 01, 2006, 11:44:37 pm

Quote
The only major Shivan capture that is known about is the Taranis (I consider the dragon and maras not major)
Capturing a cain class cruiser is completely different than capturing a Sathanas.

yeah I'll give you that.... and then they never even had time to go inside the Taranis, the Lucifer arrived too quickly. The only known boarded ship was the "hallfight transport" (unless you count the Nyarlathotep), and that didn't go so well....

But again we've got better weapons now... and a little more experience fighting the Shivans. It might just work.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 02, 2006, 05:06:39 am

But anyways, if anybody noticed, does the Gargant have the same stabilizer subsystems that the Gigas has?  You might want to try nuking those with a few hundred bombers and see what happens.  Also, I believe there are probably several reactor subsystems, if it is similar to the Gigas...a few Pyros later, all the Shivans scream as they hear:
The Gargant doesn't have anything like that, it doesn't even have an engine subsystem for you to disable it.
The strongest bombers do just above 0 damage to a turret, and that was before the new armour code was added. With the strongest Shivan armour they would be doing even less damage to it.

I designed this ship to be invulnerable remember :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: CaptJosh on March 02, 2006, 10:26:46 am
Sure, from the outside. The Pyro GX would go inside and kill the ship from the inside out.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 02, 2006, 11:01:16 am
I designed this ship to be invulnerable remember :D

www.freespace2.com!

~+k! (Probably with lead weights...)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 02, 2006, 12:24:30 pm
I could put a self destruct trigger or a nova trigger in for cheaters. If the Gargant is destroyed then it takes you with it :p
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 02, 2006, 01:23:07 pm
Yeah, I remember you were going to do that...
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Qwer on March 02, 2006, 01:25:20 pm
It won't take you if you'll be invicible. :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 02, 2006, 11:21:41 pm
Ok I know its stupid to ask, but I want to ask anyway: if the Gargant's invincible.... how do we get rid of it?
Maybe you are planning an inside-mission? Fly through the Gargant's inside? :eek2:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Qwer on March 03, 2006, 01:24:38 am
Guys...Gargant will be in Chapter 3, i think GTVA will have something for him. ;7
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 03, 2006, 04:17:23 am
Maybe you are planning an inside-mission? Fly through the Gargant's inside? :eek2:
I tried an interior model once, the AI bounces off the walls too much and ends up killing itself :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on March 03, 2006, 09:24:13 am
Woomeister
Quote
I could put a self destruct trigger or a nova trigger in for cheaters. If the Gargant is destroyed then it takes you with it  :p

ngtm1r
Quote
www.freespace2.com!

~+k! (Probably with lead weights...)

Make it a make-ship-vulnerable and delay 0 nova trigger  :drevil:  ;7

Woomeister
Quote
I tried an interior model once, the AI bounces off the walls too much and ends up killing itself  :D

Fix the AI and give me a Pyro (preferrably a Magnum or one from the Pyromania MOD  ;7 ).  We'll see how the Shivans take an Earthshaker for breakfast..."lots of energy, guys!  Help yourselves!  Heh, heh."  "Ooo!  Feisty, eh?  Let's try some Omega BBQ for lunch!"  "Want more?  What a voracious appetite!  Have an irresistable Blackshark for Dinner!  Nice meeting you, BTW!  Ta-ta!"   :drevil:  :lol:  :drevil:  Ooo, and don't forget the Mass Driver straight to the Shivan body beam-cannon.  " 'S'matter?  Subystem malfunction, mate?  Sucks to be you!  Here, juggle these Impact Mortars for me."
Of course, eventually, they'd probably gang up on you and you'd have three of them latched onto your ship...that'd make a good cutscene.  They rip the canopy off, and probably impale you on the wall because they're so ticked they don't want to kill you quickly.  This'd make a good Descent-Freespace crossover...wouldn't be realistic, but boy, it'd be fun!!
On the more serious side, if you could fix the AI you could take the Pyro setup, make lots of radical changes, and say it was a new prototype GTVA deep-insertion craft...

OK, here's a thought:  The GTVA in FS2 was worried that the Sathanas' subspace-distortion weapon could be used against ship reactors because the reactors are sort of similar to the sun...the Meson was used to collapse the Capella subspace node...22=4...Let's see if we can modify the Meson, have an automated transport jump it in beside the Gargant, and let it rip.  :eek:  Of course, you'd probably want to test the effects of the bombs as you were developing them on some old Great War relics...maybe use smaller bombs that wouldn't blow up the reactors, just cause a surge, so you could rig a ton of sensors and see what the effects are, and then finally test the real one on an old Orion or something.  And who knows, maybe you'd need more than one bomb, and of course you'd want a backup.

On another tangent, try to resurrect ETAK, see how the Shivans communicate, and slip some counterfit orders in...on second thought, not such a great idea...probably would get a strange message back translated: "hahahahahaha nice try boogers"  :no:  Bad idea.  :shaking:

PS If anyone reading this has never played Descent (1, 2, or 3), go download the demos (if you look there's ones for D1 and D2 as well as 2 demos for D3, but D1&2 are DOS and take alot of work to set up.)  If you like them enough, you can usually find them on Ebay or something (yardsales, etc.)
Also, there are a ton of MODs... I know there's a .zip version that has a ton of levels (hundreds)...There's one for D1 as well as D2, and there are also scores of levels & MODs (such as Pyromania  :cool: ) for D3.

PPS
Qwer
Quote
Guys...Gargant will be in Chapter 3, i think GTVA will have something for him.  ;7
Sure... make it a Colossus Mark 2 Sport FX Turbo ... Hmm, what happened last time we tried this?  Hopefully the GTVA will be smart enough not to underestimate the Shivans... if you want to beat them, don't think overkill, don't think mega overkill, think giga overkill.   :nervous:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Trivial Psychic on March 03, 2006, 12:39:38 pm
Maybe you are planning an inside-mission? Fly through the Gargant's inside? :eek2:
I tried an interior model once, the AI bounces off the walls too much and ends up killing itself :D
Did you use attack paths to make sure the AI travelled the proper path to... whatever they were gonna destroy in the Gargant's interior?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 03, 2006, 12:43:47 pm
Mine was a series of rooms the AI had to traverse using waypoints, there was combat in the larger sections and that's were they would ram the outer areas. These sections were quite large but the AI was too stupid to fight in the confined space.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Goober5000 on March 03, 2006, 01:48:34 pm
Mine was a series of rooms the AI had to traverse using waypoints, there was combat in the larger sections and that's were they would ram the outer areas. These sections were quite large but the AI was too stupid to fight in the confined space.

You know, I wonder if you can hack that with the new SCP stuff.  If you make a bunch of invisible hostile ships and tell the AI to ignore-new them, they won't attack but they should also stay away from them.  Just put a few on the boundaries of the area. :)

Of course, a better solution would be to update the AI, but I don't have the faintest idea of how to start on that. :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 03, 2006, 02:00:53 pm
Quote
Mine was a series of rooms the AI had to travers using waypoints, there was comabat in the larger sections and that's were they would ram the outer areas. These sections were quite large but the AI was too stupid to fight in the confined space.

Maybe you could just copy and paste the Descent AI and use that. :p
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: starfox on March 04, 2006, 02:16:30 pm
What about just ditching the fighters, and filling the ceilings with defensive emplacements (turrets, missile launchers, beam cannons and all sort of Shivan-sponsored fun.....
 :lol:

Quite a tricky mission, that would be...
Kinda like mission in Star Trek: Invasion (Playstation), where you are supposed to enter the B0rg Cube and recover a transwarp coil (or something like that). After that, it was controller-shattering trip back to the surface, when the cube explodes behind you...
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 06, 2006, 05:13:12 pm
who here thiks it could work? :shaking:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 06, 2006, 05:55:38 pm
It just would take too many people to board. Think. An Orion class-destroyer has.... what 3,000 crew?
The Colossus had about 30,000. It was six klicks long. Im just gonna guess on the Gigas's length... at around 10 klicks. That probably means about 50 or  60,000 crew...all Shivans. When you consider how much more adept a Shivan is in zero-G, that means you'd want to outnumber them. So we're figuring 80,000 people to just attack the Gigas. And it might fail at that. Then we'd need to learn how to operate Shivan Tech, which we have almost zilch experience at. So....it just doesn't seem pratical.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 06, 2006, 06:18:07 pm
Gigas is 22km long.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 06, 2006, 06:27:13 pm
Why board to capture it? Board with the goal of inflicting damage, and if by chance you kill all the crew without destroying the ship, then capture it. Bring all the heavy weapons you want and use them prolifigately. Demolish anything that looks remotely important. Blow holes through the interior bulkheads to make your own doors. Heck, blast out enough of the bulkheads to give yourself decent fields of fire. If you can clear about a hundred meters, that'll swing the odds back in your favor. Even fifty meters would pose a big problem to the Shivans, who are close-combat specialists.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 06, 2006, 08:37:27 pm
I agree with ngtm1r, just blast the hell out of the hull, and use long range weapons to make spaces for the infantry to move in, it works, but it also leaves us with the problem of TOO open spaces. . .. .

However, I would love more suggestions, considering it's split roughly 50-50, I would prefer it if we could keep brainstorming (who knows, the Inferno creators might take a look at this thread. . . ) :mad: :mad: :mad:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 07, 2006, 03:28:35 am
who knows, the Inferno creators might take a look at this thread. . .
:waves:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 07, 2006, 10:44:53 am
HI! ! ! ! (thwacks self upside head) :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 07, 2006, 10:51:37 am
Quote

Im just gonna guess at the Gigas's length...... at about 10 klicks.

Quote
Gigas is 22km long

oops.... I was way off. :D
I think I made my point though.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 07, 2006, 12:51:56 pm
Well you could double the estimate for crew :)
Title: Flashpak
Post by: kingdragon on March 08, 2006, 01:11:22 pm
In Wing Commander 4, there was the flashpak.

It's small, even stealth fighters carry it.

It's easy to operate.

1. Lock on target.

2. Launch at target.

3. Watch it hit target.

4. Laugh like a demented hyena as the target's internal atmosphere incinerates.

 :lol:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 08, 2006, 01:19:54 pm
The Shivans don't seem to mind no atmosphere situations, and any large ships would probably be able to seal breaches using bulkheads or shielding.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: phreak on March 08, 2006, 05:11:45 pm
from the other 298746029764 "How to kill teh Gargant" threads

Spoiler:
Actually, there are two Gargants.  By a miraculous stroke of luck for the GTVA, they collide and explode after one exits subspace right behind the other one.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: MrBig101 on March 08, 2006, 06:30:18 pm
Why not just send the Volition Bravos with BFFFFUBERReds in place of the flak?  That should teach em, arrr'.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 08, 2006, 10:19:22 pm
In reply to two posts ago:

Is that true? Or did you just make it up to confuse everybody? Hey, Woomeister can you confirm?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Qwer on March 09, 2006, 01:18:33 am
Don't belive him. That was posted before on "Gargant Killing Treat-How?", and it's fake spoiler. :p
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 09, 2006, 10:19:58 am
I we don't currently have plans for using it then we don't have plans for destroying it :)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 09, 2006, 06:26:22 pm
No the Gargant was to show up in either chapter 3 or 4 of the old campaign, since there are no plans for those in the current one, we currently don't have plans to use it. Hence why I removed it from the tables for now.

It doesn't mean that we won't use it however.

I believe the Gargant was to come in during the Ancient attack, so no ancients=that story scrapped.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 09, 2006, 07:12:36 pm
Old campaign? I must be missing something here. :confused:

If ther's an "old" there must be a "new"....
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 10, 2006, 04:01:55 am
Old campaign = R1
New Campaign = INF SCP
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on March 10, 2006, 08:29:11 am
Here's a use for your Gargant!...  Find some way to convert the model to a D3 level map, find another way to make a Shivan "robot", and down we go!
Prepare for Descent...
Sorry... I do realize that this is not a D3 forum, but then again, it is an FS forum, and since the Gargant isn't going to be used in the Inferno campaign... well I guess a D3 mission is all it's good for, unless someone comes up with a plan for using it.  Hmm... it was going to be involved w/ the Ancients?  Someone should make Solar Wars Chapter 2.  (After they fix up Chapter 1, that is.)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 10, 2006, 08:42:46 am
Some of the R1 stuff we still have is really leftovers from the old campaign. There's no plans on using the Notus right now either, but I've left that one in the tables for now. I've removed the Gargant as it won't be used in the first two chapters, and I don't want you lot getting your hands on it till we use it :D

Don't worry though if we actually didn't use it at all I'll make sure it's released.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on March 11, 2006, 12:58:42 pm
Quote
I don't want you lot getting your hands on it till we use it  :D
-Meanie!!  :hopping:  :mad:
-jk  :lol:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 11, 2006, 01:12:30 pm
heh :p  :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 11, 2006, 06:02:42 pm
This isn't actually related to the Gargant...... but when I was viewing the models from Inferno, a lot of textures seemed missing: like the Icanus and practically all the Ancient ships. What's up with that?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Herra Tohtori on March 11, 2006, 07:44:35 pm
"The approach will not be easy. You are required to maneuver straight down this trench and skim the surface to this point. The target area is only two meters wide. It's a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the reactor system. A precise hit will start a chain reaction which should destroy the ship. Only a precise hit will set up a chain reaction. The shaft is beam-shielded, so you'll have to use Helios missiles."

 :D

Or better still, make a small labyrinth of passages inside the model. You'll have to get in, blow the reactor up and then, followed by an expanding inferno of combustion gases and plasma, you'll have to maneuver through the tunnels towards the surface. If you can fly fast enough, you'll get out before the ship explodes. If you're not so good, well...

About the wingmen hitting the walls. Well, who ever in their right mind would send wingmen onto this mission? Alpha 1 is the answer. The wingmen can stay outside and destroy everyone trying to follow you. Or try to...  :rolleyes:

Yeah, I like Star Wars despite they are all very unrealistic and naivë, and on the matter of episodes I-III you can add "crap" to the list.  :blah:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Shadow0000 on March 12, 2006, 12:25:07 am
That may taken from movie, while the shield idea is really OK, have you seen how many reactors have even the Diablo, I think that was they have multiple ones, to stop someone from making a suicide maneuver, or even to self-destruct in hey here "Independence day" where you see a signal "Big Alien Ship, weak spot 10,000 meters ahead".

This also goes to Reactors (the Gigas has 6 Reactors, the Diablo has 4), Shield Generators (the Diablo has 2) and Gigas's Stabilizers (it has 3), and many other systems which are spread in order to have a preventivy SubSystem which doesn't lead into the collapse of the Ship (Gigas's Stabilizers) or the Shield systems (Diablo dual Shield Generators)

The Armageddon or Executioner would a best choice in any case, by the size of the Gargant, it should have a really good Power Output for Shields and Beams, that means that if the shield output is just used to protect a single big reactor, it would be a miracle that even a Helios could make an scratch on it.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 12, 2006, 04:25:28 am
A Notus with Apocalypse bombs would have to be used, however a Notus is slow and can't defend itself from a hoard of Shivan fighters defending the interior, so you would need some kind of support.

This isn't actually related to the Gargant...... but when I was viewing the models from Inferno, a lot of textures seemed missing: like the Icanus and practically all the Ancient ships. What's up with that?
I guess in modelview?
The maps need to be in the maps directory for modelview to load them, or you need to use the last version of vpviews 'browse models in vp file' feature that will load them from the R1 vp.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Shadow0000 on March 12, 2006, 08:10:34 pm
If the Gargant is destroyed that way, it means that the Gigas will suffer a major effect when the Stabilizers are destroyed, right ?

This is usually done by SEXP, just conditionals to reduce the Power Output Recharge of the ships if the Reactors are destroyed, or a Ship, or one to nullifie the Shields in the case of the Diablo's Shield Generator.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 13, 2006, 04:12:18 am
If the Gargant is destroyed that way, it means that the Gigas will suffer a major effect when the Stabilizers are destroyed, right ?
The Gigas doesn't have those anymore. It just has 6 reactor systems now.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 13, 2006, 09:04:15 am
When you refer to the "chapters" of inferno.... are you talking about R1 being chapter one or are you just gonnna drop that story?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 13, 2006, 09:33:56 am
R1 was dropped, the EA war story is being redone.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 13, 2006, 05:14:14 pm
lay off u guys, he's not here to disclose the specs on his campaign, (not until release anway) so bug off. . .  :cool:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 14, 2006, 12:24:41 am
The GTVA will put up a pig poster with covered in harsh langauge, making the Gargant cry and run away. :p
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 14, 2006, 03:57:38 am
Woo, can you give us a list of subsystems that both the Gigas and Gargant have? In other words, what subsystems does the Gigas have and what ones does the Gargant have?
Gigas has the standard subsystems, 6 reactors and 120 turrets.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 14, 2006, 09:20:15 am
Quote
Gigas has the standard subsystems, 6 reactors and 120 turrets.

whoa, u think u have enough to cover that beast?  (considering how every ship has one turret to every half-click)

also, how many flak turrets does this have?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 14, 2006, 09:24:03 am
Flak... *does a quick check*
looks like none.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 14, 2006, 09:27:41 am
interesting. . .  NO flak turrets? ? ? ?   I'm assuming that it has a boat load of anti-fighter/bomber turrets then. . ..
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 14, 2006, 11:19:45 am
96 anti-fighter weapons.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 14, 2006, 11:32:25 am
Any of those very annoying...I think they're called shotgun turrets.... the ones that stop your engines and throw you away?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 14, 2006, 11:36:03 am
Well I just had a good look through the weapons and I doubt this is the final entry for it. No way it should have basic heat seeking missiles...

It probably hasn't been fixed since we changed to the new model for the ship...
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 14, 2006, 09:40:30 pm
no, Hunter, not necessarily those, just the flak ones. . . 

kewl, Woomeister
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 15, 2006, 12:28:41 pm
Shotgun turrets are waaay more annoying than flak! Mainly because they're that much more accurate...
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 15, 2006, 04:33:49 pm
Ours only hurt if you get hit by them at point blank range since the further they travel from the turret, the further the shots spread apart so you don't get the full hit at a further distance. Our flak can be more annoying since it's faster than the FS2 flak.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 15, 2006, 05:24:11 pm
They may not hurt but they sure annoy the hell out of me! Especially when they shoot down the bombs you throw at whatever it is your targeting...... Good job programming that by the way they are MUCH more accurate than FS2 turrets.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 15, 2006, 05:25:31 pm
WHOA! ! !   :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:


U say: FASTER THAN THE FS2 Turrets?

how quickly can they kill u?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 15, 2006, 10:47:53 pm
I said "more accurate" not "faster". :rolleyes:

But like Woomeister said they do very little actual damage...they just throw you away from whatever ship you're trying to take down.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Qwer on March 16, 2006, 01:42:07 am
Heh, imagine what could EA Cluster Flaks do with your fighter. :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 16, 2006, 04:24:13 am
U say: FASTER THAN THE FS2 Turrets?

Enemy weapons fire at 2x the FS2 rates on very easy to the same rate as fs2 on insane, firendly weapons fire at 4x faster on very easy and at the same rate as fs2 on insane (usually FS2 fire rate is 4x slower on very easy than insane) so the lower the difficulty you play on, the more you'll notice the difference.

Our weapons can take a light fighter down quite quicky, you'll regret challenging a cruiser in a Mihos...
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 16, 2006, 06:28:53 pm
yea, I don't make a habit out of attackin cap ships. . . .  I usually go for the fighters. . . . (my caps can defend themselves)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 16, 2006, 07:59:48 pm
That's because you play on too low a difficulty.  :lol:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 16, 2006, 10:19:26 pm
it's not that. . . . :hopping:           

It's that as a fighter wing, ur supposed to defend teh caps that are blowing the crap out of other caps. . . . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 16, 2006, 11:37:07 pm
Yeah but you're ALSO supposed to execute precision strikes against troublesome turrets on said enemy cap ships.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 16, 2006, 11:52:08 pm
Getting back to the Gargant...I'm rather disappointed you're not using it at the moment.

It would have had a good spot in my campaign........ don't worry about mine contradicting Inferno, it takes place long afterward.

As to how to destroy a Gargant (original topic of this thread, in case people have forgotten) just throw a few Icanuses at them, I've witnessed how easily it can shred the Gigas...


oh btw, idle question, but if you put ships from two different speciesand label them both as "hostile" team, do they still attack each other?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 17, 2006, 12:54:23 am
Yeah but you're ALSO supposed to execute precision strikes against troublesome turrets on said enemy cap ships.

Stilleto equivalents or ya die. :p
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 17, 2006, 04:26:23 am
As to how to destroy a Gargant (original topic of this thread, in case people have forgotten) just throw a few Icanuses at them, I've witnessed how easily it can shred the Gigas...

oh btw, idle question, but if you put ships from two different speciesand label them both as "hostile" team, do they still attack each other?

Several Icanus class ships wouldn't be able to beat it before they are destroyed. One of them might do 2-4% damage before it's destroyed.

hostiles won't attack each other even if they are different species, you need to set one group as neutral and select 'all teams at war' in FRED.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 17, 2006, 11:55:25 am
 :eek: :eek: :eek:

Guess I underestimated the Gargant's armor....
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on March 17, 2006, 08:05:49 pm
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,38622.msg787555.html#msg787555

...modified...meson... feedback, anyone?  :nervous:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: mr.WHO on March 18, 2006, 03:23:58 am
Something tell me that it can even survive supernova. if super uber beam of death that supose to have couple of millions or even billions dergee dammage it  about 2-4%, then noca would fry it only a bit.

If we would have a new meson warhead that blow up like nova, then we would have to stic it directly to gargant hull (it would be best to put it at weakest part) to destroy it (something like WW2 sticky bombs vs heavy armoured tanks).
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Qwer on March 18, 2006, 03:49:53 am
I bet GTVA will be crushed. If not by Gargant, then by that super-uber-massive moon-size juggernauth. ;7
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: FireCrack on March 18, 2006, 08:59:06 am
Deimos class corvettes can even (partialy) survive supernovae, i'm preety sure the gargant will have no trouble.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: mr.WHO on March 18, 2006, 09:45:34 am
By survive I mean that it can use & move away after nova :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 18, 2006, 03:57:55 pm
The corvettes didn't survive the supernova....that was just the EMP shockwave preceding the real explosion.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Qwer on March 18, 2006, 04:21:05 pm
Well Corvettes were turned into space junk by heat wave, then destroyed by shockwave. I don't think Gargant could survive it. :p
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 18, 2006, 04:52:19 pm
umm, practically EVERYTHING gets wiped out by the deadly shockwave of a supernova.  Plus, the heat created for making a nova afterwords would over-heat
EVERY SINGLE SYSTEM
[/color]onboard ANY ship
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: mr.WHO on March 18, 2006, 05:38:28 pm
Hmm... Our sun surface heat is couple millons dergee. Lets say it have overall energy E, in area of sun (lets say V ),
When star went nova the same amount of energy is blow away to much larger area of cold space (battle for Capella was somewhere at outer rim of system because shockwave first destroyed few planets and the after few moments arrived to area of battle. I can guess that area from center of the star to battlefield is a size of at least 1000 V, this means that the heat should be around 10 000-100 000 dergee. Note:
- shivans do nova at fresh star
 while
natural nova is started by exchaused stars that can't support fussion any longer
but
are much larger than sun looking Capella

I guess that shockwave was around 100 000 to 1 million degree.

Now second matter: Photon beam cannons are simple high energy/heat beams that have to burn a military grade anti-beam hull. To do this fast I think that puny SGreen have a few million dergee heat, so don't know how many more zeros I have to add to present the power of USilver.

What is the point? I think that supernowa heat isn't a thread to any post capella military Ship, especially Gargant.

Note two: All the time I'm talking about FS2 outro first orange/red shockwave, the second, white-blue shockwave that dematerialized Deimos wreack was a shivan created some kind of mega subspace disturbtion shockwave that have nothing to do with real nova.


Still it would be fun to hear from GTVA... or should I say Allied (GTVA/EA) command that we will blow up Gargant with nova charges, but you have to escort transport that will stick them to Gargant hull while swarm of shivan fighters try to stop you (ohh and there is a hitch, you won't get back because, nova charge disturb local subspace so if you jump you will die in subspace and if you won't jump...barbecue :D

Nova charge- new type of meson warhead, that is few hundred times more powerful (still not so powerful as normal nova, but it sounds cool, and if you stick those charges directly to Gargant hull they would work)

Guesing that we advanced from atom bomb to hydrogen bombs in less than 30 years, such weapon is doable to GTVA (hell they have best scientist from two races/whole galaxy and since they have evil aliens on their necks they have unlimited fund to military research) :D

Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 18, 2006, 05:47:41 pm
Photon Beam cannons do not have to be anywhere near that hot to melt their way through metal. I don't know any exact temperatures at which metals melt, but I'm willing to bet that none can withstand more than ten-thousand degree (Farenheit scale) heat, which would be all the beam cannons would therefore have to get up to. Also, beam cannons are focused light, not all spread out like most light is. Focused light is generally stronger by default than unfocused. Example: 500 degree heat will melt most rocks, but if you focused light at a heat of, say, 400 degree heat, it would still be able to melt through because it is more focused.

The second part is theoretical of course, since we have no way of focusing lasers like that (or do we?  :shaking:)

Quote
New type of meson warhead.....

I believe they already have that. Inferno has some sort of Meson Torpedo, and then there's the Gorgon Cannon from Derelict to be considered.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Herra Tohtori on March 18, 2006, 09:50:47 pm
Actually the reason for laser beams being able to eat their way through metal is that the energy input is great enough for metal to vaporize from the surface where the light hits. The residual heat and the hot metal vapour then melts some metal on the edges of the hole. Photon Beam (Laser) itself has no temperature measurable. Only the frequency (color) of the light can be expressed in Kelvins, but that's not quite important. What's important is energy input into target surface - if energy input is remarkably higher than what the target can emit, the target gets hotter. If energy input (absorbation) is GREATLY bigger than what target can emit, target surface vaporizes through immediat phase change; if the difference between absorbation and emission is smaller, heating is of course slower and the target surface goes through brief liquid state before vaporizing.

Freespace beams, however, are nothing remotely like lasers. They are bound to be particle beams of some sort. Also, there is bound to be some charged particles in that beam because they are visible. Most likely some lower-end beam cannons are simply plasma held together by a strong tube-shaped magnetic field.

This is how a FS2 beam could work out: There is a cell full of main mater that forms the visible part of the beam. Then there is another cell, releasing "core matter" for the beam. Core matter must be electrically charged particles such as electrons or protons, though positrons would also work quite nicely if there were a plentitude of them...

So, the core jet consists of charged particles accelerated into great speed. The faster the better. When this thin but powerful beam of charged matter proceeds through the space, it forms a magnetic field around it, perfectly similar to the magnetic field induced by electric current in a wire. So, there we now have a roughly tube-shaped magnetic field. Through this magnetic pipe, the main damage-creating hot plasma or whatever matter is then pumped at great volumes. The magnetic field prevents the plasma from expanding rapidly into space, which it would normally do very fast. When the plasma hits the target (hopefully), it starts melting its way through it.

Pros compared to lasers:

-Looks much cooler in space, when hot matter is hot enough to be visible whereas laser beam is invisible except when it hits something

-Greater momentum effect - the mass causes damage also by kinetic energy, not just thermal energy

-charged particles ionize the target molecules, causing even greater destruction

Cons:

-Limited range; the core beam starts to disperse due to electric force between particles of similar charge. Because of this the range also effects the beam's ability to penetrate armour - if the energy density drops too low, it cannot go through hull plating, causing only limited amount of damage on targets external side. When the core beam collapses altogether, the damage-inducing matter also spreads into space - this is the cause for FS2 beams ending "suddenly".

-Another thing reducing effectivity alongside range is the hot damage-matter radiating its energy into space on the journey. The cool looks have a price.

-Need of ammunition. Though the beam cannons probably are able to generate their own ammunition by converting energy into matter. Hence the advent of beam weapons after Shivan weapons' research only; earthlings and vasudans were not able to create (or even think of?) such possibility - the Shivans brought the beams to us.  :D

Strange thing is that Shivan beams are red, which is the lowest energy color in electromagnetic spectrum. So I bet the Shivan beams get their power mainly from sheer volume, whereas Terran/Vasudan green/blue/silver beams get hotter/more energetic and thus don't need that much matter into them.

Of course, this is just speculation. Main point is however that beams are _not_ laser beams. They shouldn't even be mentioned in same sentence. Good example of how ineffective laser weapons are is ML-16, and even that is quite too effective considering the energy drain mentioned...  :p
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: mr.WHO on March 19, 2006, 04:53:00 am
@ Herra Tohtori: I like your plasma beam theory. It preatty fit what we can see in FS (and that first FS2 mission
"commence plasma core insertion" dalogue).
Also plasma have few millons degree (I heard that scientist created few billions degree plasma week ago), and in FS 2 outro it's clearly visible that beams burn through hull (those burnung scars).

Quote
Strange thing is that Shivan beams are red, which is the lowest energy color in electromagnetic spectrum. So I bet the Shivan beams get their power mainly from sheer volume, whereas Terran/Vasudan green/blue/silver beams get hotter/more energetic and thus don't need that much matter into them.

Note that shivans beams are much more stable and thiner (I guess that they have better magnetic field that hold beam together), this means that they can have more focused beams that can do more dammage with less energy need (this also make clear why they need much less time to "reload" another salvo).
Look at FS2 BGreen of BFGreen, they are very unstable so this means that large amount of energy vent into space, if GTVA would have same magnetif field tech, their beams would be much more powerful, and if they would decrees
amount energy per shot, GTVA beams would be more powerful than shivans but with same fire rate.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Qwer on March 19, 2006, 06:12:23 am
Back to Gargant topic.

I know only 4 ways:
- GTVA will be destroyed by Gargant, a little of remaining people will escape, colonize planet and stop travelling in subspace
- Shivans will ally with GTVA
- Gargant will destroy entire GTVA fleet, then give them rest
- Gargant won't attack GTVA
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 19, 2006, 06:15:27 am
I'll confirm the second option is a big no.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: mr.WHO on March 19, 2006, 07:58:12 am
first option would be false too, because Woo is making ancients pack & campaign, that will (I think) be place in post shivan invasion period.

third: possible, same like 80 sathanases blowing up Capella.

forth: quite possible, GTVA (SOC) will move to shivan space, will see Gargant, get scared, get back to GTVA, then GTVA would blow away all nodes to shivan space.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Qwer on March 19, 2006, 09:08:05 am
First - Gargant will show up during Chapter 3 (if it will be made, because there are no plans for it for now).\
Fourth - Woo said in FAQ there will be no collapsing nodes. I've thought about Shivans throwing everything, but Gargant, because of afraid, what could GTVA got. Gargant is Hive, and it is very important to them.

Third option would be true only under right conditions. Me and few more Polish Freespace Fans thinks Shivans are fighting with races for fun, like Sport. They're attacking, destroying whole fleet and homeworld, then leaves race to grow. If race would hold against attack, Shivans are preparing better fleet, and so on. I bet Woo has the same point of viev as me.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 19, 2006, 09:45:49 am
Fourth - Woo said in FAQ there will be no collapsing nodes.

Once you see chapter 2 you'll see why that wouldn't stop the Shivans  :drevil:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Qwer on March 19, 2006, 09:49:33 am
Lemme guess...something like Shivan Knossos from Derelict? :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 19, 2006, 09:50:08 am
No
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 19, 2006, 12:47:11 pm
I think I know what he's talking about.....

As for the Gargant being important to Shivans... that may very well be, except that Woo has stressed repeatedly that it is invincible. And there's also the screenshot in Inferno R1 to consider: it shows the Gargant practically on top of Earth. Yes, I know that story's been dropped, but still, it would be cool to actually fight the Shivans in our home system.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 19, 2006, 12:51:10 pm
That was just a cool looking render, it wasn't made to show part of the story.

As for fighting Shivans in the Sol system, we've already stated this will happen.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 19, 2006, 04:18:03 pm
The Shivans can do other interesting stuff :)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 19, 2006, 08:23:57 pm
Umm, we could just pull off another Lucifer (blow up the Gargant while it's jumping)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: mr.WHO on March 19, 2006, 11:08:18 pm
emm, that was reapeted thosand time: Lucifer shields aren't invunerable, GTA/PVN just didn't have any weapon that could overload shields faster than it's 6 reactors can recharge them. Gargant would toast Lucifer (even infeno one) in half second.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 19, 2006, 11:51:05 pm
Furthermore who ever said that the Gargant has the same shields? The Vinashaak does, I believe, but the Gargant just has super-tough armor.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 20, 2006, 03:28:35 am
Gargant has no shields.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Shadow0000 on March 21, 2006, 11:10:25 pm
Quote
there will be no collapsing nodes

That don't seems a real way to stop anyone, 4 reasons:

1 - GTSD Odin: Dubbed 'The Great Experiment', the Odin superdestroyer was initially put into service to field-test a new type of subspace drive system for nodeless travel between star systems. Although a great deal was learned about subspace from the trials, the drive ultimately failed to live up to its mandate and was scrapped. Eight months after the ship was mothballed, scientists decided to install the same subspace coil technology for the purpose of testing Knossos technology which was destined for the Sol Gate. The result was startlingly successful - although the project was completed shortly after the Melia was completed, it worked perfectly - allowing the Odin to travel through weak or unstable jump nodes. The Odin is the heaviest warship in regular GTVA service, and the most powerful, aside from the Warlock carrier.

2 - SOCv Neptune: Sporting a scaled down version of the GTSD Odin's subspace coil matrix, the Neptune is the largest corvette in use by the SOC. It provides long range firepower with its vast batteries of Geodess-1 advanced hyper-velocity missiles, and is well armed against fighters all-round. The few Neptunes that have been produced allow small SOC strike groups to penetrate unstable or weakened jump nodes while providing their own strike capability, and have additional light and medium beam cannons mounted on their hardpoints.

3 - GTI Melia: More famously known as the Sol Gate, the Melia connects Delta Serpentis to the Sol system by stabilising the collapsed jump node to the extent that all Allied ships can once again travel back to the birthplace of humanity. The Earth Alliance stormed the huge structure shortly after the first GTVA ships passed through the revitalised node.

4 - Knossos: The Knossos device is a subspace portal, supposedly constructed by the Ancients, which stabilises jump nodes. Research carried out on this portal by Doctor Mina Hargrove later became the foundation of the Sol Gate project which allowed humanity to return to its birthplace. An entire network of Knossos gates is thought to exist.

and the extra one, that no one named:

5 - Shivan JumpGate: This Shivan jumpgate appears to be based on Knossos technology (or perhaps the Knossos is based upon its design). Regardless, it allows large Shivan warships to travel through unstable or weakened jump nodes.

Like a Star or Dark Hole or a SubSpace Node, it doesn't matter if it is destroyed, it maybe really complex, but see the whole point: if it can be destroyed, then it can be created also...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Vasudans need a hand with subspace technology, well at least they have the Apothess...
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 22, 2006, 03:41:11 am

The Vasudans need a hand with subspace technology
They have the Djinn bomb...
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 22, 2006, 11:07:21 am
umm, back to what shadow0000 said, I wasn't talking about collapsing the node, rather destroying the ship while it makes the jump into subspace. . . . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 22, 2006, 11:26:54 am
The Lucifer was only destroyable as its shields were down, since the Gargant has no shields attacking it in subspace would be the same as attacking in normal space, it wouldn't become 'vulnerable' like the Luicfer.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 22, 2006, 11:33:21 am
actually, if you hit a ship in the right spot (mainly it's sub-space engines) while it's jumping, the ship will be torn between subspace and real space, and will theoretically pop out of existence. . . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 22, 2006, 11:45:49 am
Well since it would be impossible to damage any subsystems on it that won't work.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 22, 2006, 01:16:43 pm
Not even those Meson torps I saw in the vp file would do anything against it huh?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Shadow0000 on March 22, 2006, 07:39:32 pm
Quote
actually, if you hit a ship in the right spot (mainly it's sub-space engines) while it's jumping, the ship will be torn between subspace and real space, and will theoretically pop out of existence. . . .

In the IA tables there is the option for NAV governs Warp ability, there was never a SubSystem for the Warp Drive, but it was considered as the NAV, thought the Warp Drive should still be functional (use it at your own risk).

Even if possible, they would just repair it or don't jump, there is no enough time to destroy it while it has started jump...

------------------------------------------------------

Quote
Not even those Meson torps I saw in the vp file would do anything against it huh?

The Executioner can be only be fired by the Jotun D.H (or maybe the Notus and the other....), this is the comparation (INF R1):

Helios: FS2 most powerful bomb:

DMG : 6800 / Armor DMG: 6800 / SubSystem DMG: 5780

Hell Fire: EA most powerful bomb:

DMG : 7200 / Armor DMG: 7200 / SubSystem DMG: 5400

Executioner: Meson Torpedo:

DMG: 12000 / Armor DMG: 42000 / SubSystem DMG: 24000

I don't really believe it will do something, the exectioner inflicts a 17% damage per unit over the SBF Beam Cannons/turrets of the Gigas, and about 1% Damage to it's Hull (the same or less than BF Beams DMG). Those all bombs are worthless against shields, probabily if we would see a Lucifer, Iblis or Diablo with Shield capabilities, it would be a waste of time firing those bombs.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, the Notus is for Terrans?. What happened to the Wraith, was it dropped ?, I believed one would be for the Terrans and the other for the Vasudans...

Quote
They have the Djinn bomb...

I believe you mean this is a SSM Anti-Corvette or Capital bomb.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Quote
if it can be destroyed, then it can be created also...

I mean Ross 128...nothing else
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 23, 2006, 03:55:26 am
Anyways, the Notus is for Terrans?. What happened to the Wraith, was it dropped ?, I believed one would be for the Terrans and the other for the Vasudans...
The Notus has no equal for the other races, the Jotun does however.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 23, 2006, 01:43:28 pm
I take it that the Notus was a bomber? Or, if it didn't have an equal, maybe a gunship? (I say this because of the Vindhyacal Shivan super-bomber.)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 23, 2006, 02:05:39 pm
The Notus is THE bomber. 90m long, max speed of 35, 5 turrets, 14 gun mounts, and twice the secondary capacity of the Jotun, oh and it carries the Apocalypse, the 'anti-Sathanas' bomb.

It has a max burn speed of 145 to escape it's own bombs, but it doesn't last long so you have to be careful with it.


The Wraith was closer to a gun ship, max speed of 10, lots of turrets, and was bigger than the Notus.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Shadow0000 on March 23, 2006, 11:57:08 pm
Quote
The Notus is THE bomber. 90m long, max speed of 35, 5 turrets, 14 gun mounts, and twice the secondary capacity of the Jotun, oh and it carries the Apocalypse, the 'anti-Sathanas' bomb.

It has a max burn speed of 145 to escape it's own bombs, but it doesn't last long so you have to be careful with it.

Remember me to the Satyr's specs, I would choose that ship than a Jotun if I could...(the Jotun is just too slow to disarm a really big ship)

Quote
the 'anti-Sathanas' bomb.

The Sathanas have 1,000,000 Hitpoints, the Apocalypse (old Armageddon) just does 420,000 DMG to Armor/Hull in R1,  does that mean it was raised ?. Even if not it is sure a lot of damage to be anti-juggernaut bomb.

I remember firing an Armageddon a blow my ship out of the entire universe, and it was really away when it explode.......
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 24, 2006, 04:10:31 am
The Sathanas have 1,000,000 Hitpoints, the Apocalypse (old Armageddon) just does 420,000 DMG to Armor/Hull in R1,  does that mean it was raised ?. Even if not it is sure a lot of damage to be anti-juggernaut bomb.
It does 300000 damage now, so it'll take between 3-4 bombs to destroy a Sathanas.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 24, 2006, 01:26:58 pm
don't know who changed it, but it doesn't really matter anyway it should be fine as it is right now.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 24, 2006, 01:49:14 pm
what the GTVA needs is an anti-deadnaught bomb. . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 24, 2006, 03:42:00 pm
Juggernaut > Dreadnaught


So any juggernaut-bombs would work superbly on a dreadnaught.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 24, 2006, 05:31:47 pm
heh, meant to say anti-Death Star, but that's a completely different reality. . . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Shadow0000 on March 24, 2006, 10:48:10 pm
Quote
So any juggernaut-bombs would work superbly on a dreadnaught.

No please, don't do it, I like the SODn Solaris.

There will be new dreadnaught in R2 ?, or is just a Class exclusive of the SOC ?.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Quote
It does 300000 damage now, so it'll take between 3-4 bombs to destroy a Sathanas.

That's a lot, but Armor could ruin it, I believe as a Dark Hole it is just will ignore Armor, after all a Dark Hole just destroy almost everything in the same way....

I remember the description: "the compression damage done to a juggernaught's hull and subsystems will likely cripple it after only a single impact".
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: mr.WHO on March 25, 2006, 03:58:06 am
As far as I know, GTDn Solaris is now a Terran flagship that is more powerful than GTSD Odin, but there is few Odins while Solaris is one-a-kind ship.

BTW Can you post some spec of Solaris in spec topic?
Could you give is any word, ANY about Vasudan mysterious soper capship???
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 25, 2006, 04:13:18 am

Could you give is any word, ANY about Vasudan mysterious soper capship???
Hmm it has 2 Apothess class beams and has a weapon configuration like the Geb. Oh and lots of Spacial Charge guns.
You'll get no more on it now so don't ask :p
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: mr.WHO on March 25, 2006, 07:58:11 am
You mean it have the same weapon config, or same weapon placing philosophy (I mean like Ravana and Sathanas, both have diffrend config, but both have similar frontal weapon placing) ??
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on March 25, 2006, 09:33:11 am
well they won't have the exact same config since the Geb is a corvette and doesn't have Apothess beams...
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 25, 2006, 10:53:45 am
I wonder if we could somehow coax the Gigas into jumping into a system that has a black hole, and luring it near the black hole sos that the hole will suck it up. ;7
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 25, 2006, 11:32:17 am
You wanna bet that it could use the subspace weapon to destroy the black hole? Or simply jump out if it gets too close. The intense gravity might warp subspace a bit, but Shivans are very good at navigating unstable areas of subspace.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 25, 2006, 11:47:15 am
meh, If we could CREATE a black hole near the Gigas, it probably wouldn't have enough time to warp out before it was sucked in.  .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 25, 2006, 12:28:42 pm
You DO know how black holes are made don't you? Extra-large supernovas result in black holes. You want to waste another GTVA star system?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: CaptJosh on March 25, 2006, 02:05:54 pm
Better create it with the thing already inside the event horizon, or there's no way.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 25, 2006, 02:30:19 pm
That would mean that the Gigas would be in the middle of the star.  :p
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on March 25, 2006, 05:23:46 pm
Quote
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,38622.msg787555.html#msg787555

...modified...meson... feedback, anyone?  :nervous:
Errrgh... no one understood what I meant.  :ick:  :rolleyes:
    I meant that the GTVA was worried that the Sathanas would be able to cause a ship's reactors to go nova themselves, using their subspace distortion weapon.

If you could use the modified Mesons to overload the Gigas and/or Gargant's reactors... you wouldn't need to worry about the Gigas/Gargant being too powerful to be destroyed, as its own reactors' overload would destroy itself.

Even if this might not be enough to blow up the superstructure, it would certainly leave the Gigas / Gargant as a gigantic piece of space debris (the reactors would be vaporized along with any structures around them), and all Shivans inside would definately be toast, unless they were in compartments specifically designed for withstanding Gigas / Gargant reactor meltdowns.

In fact, having the Gigas/Gargant as space debris might help turn the tide for the GTVA, if there was enough technology left to study, and if they could prevent the Shivans from chasing them away from the remains.

Now that we're clear on what I meant, is there any feedback?   Is this a silly idea, cool idea, not practical idea, or what? 
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 25, 2006, 05:27:30 pm
The problem is that reactors, being the proverbial "hearts" of a ship, are the most heavily guarded part of it. I guess I don't see how a modified Meson bomb/Executioner Torpedo would overload the reactor.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on March 25, 2006, 05:37:26 pm
...Then why was the GTVA worried about the Sathanas using its Subspace distortion weapon to attack ships' reactors?  I think I remember reading that, although maybe I imagined it.  (I doubt that.)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 25, 2006, 05:58:18 pm
umm, Hunter, there are other ways to create black holes (none of them I can think of off of the top of me head). . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 25, 2006, 06:02:21 pm
I think you're referring to Inferno's Tech Room entry on the Sathanas, wherein it states that the rift weapon could be turned against ships. It says nothing about reactors though.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 25, 2006, 06:44:46 pm
umm, no, I wasn't referring to that, but that helps my point, anyway, I didn't say that we had to destroy the subsystems, before the ship could jump out, the black hold would have sucked it in. . .  :hopping:

also, jr2, your idea might work if we could find a weapon that could penetrate (penetrate, not destroy) the Gigas/ Gargant's hull to get it TO the subsystem. . .  :nod:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on March 25, 2006, 06:54:29 pm
Quote
I think you're referring to Inferno's Tech Room entry on the Sathanas, wherein it states that the rift weapon could be turned against ships. It says nothing about reactors though.
Rift weapon = nova.  Sun = big, huge reactor in space.  I don't think the GTVA was referring to it shorting out subsystems.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 25, 2006, 07:36:10 pm
That's assuming reactors are built to function exactly like suns..... which I doubt. Also, we don't know HOW the rift weapon affected the star........ and that might be an important clue as to whether it would affect starship reactors.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on March 25, 2006, 08:40:03 pm
i'm gonna say that the rift weapon theory is out (not that anybody presented it) because we don't HAVE that technology, and we have no idea HOW the Shivans did that, nor do we know whether or not teh GTVA knows HOW the Shivans destroyed the sun (seeing how anybody who SAW the sun blow up would be, simply, DEAD)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 25, 2006, 08:54:29 pm
He wasn't saying that we would use the subspace rift, he was talking about the Shivans using it to blow up our ships.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on March 25, 2006, 10:40:08 pm
Quote
He wasn't saying that we would use the subspace rift, he was talking about the Shivans using it to blow up our ships.
Yarrrrr!!
I'm talking about...nice and easy, here, the GTVA uses modified meson warheads to destroy (by overloading) the Gigas/Gargant reactors.  They got this idea because they were afraid that the Sathanas would use its subspace rift weapon to overload their reactors.  Therefore, I'm assuming that subspace can affect reactors somehow.  (Obviously, it can affect certain types, because the sun is a fusion reactor, and the subspace rift weapons used by the Sathanases in Capella caused that sun to go nova.)
Now, try to follow... if the subspace rift weapon can cause the sun to blow, and the GTVA is concerned that it could cause their reactors to blow, then perhaps the Meson warhead, which collapses subspace nodes, could be modified to affect a Gigas or Gargant in the same way that the GTVA was afraid the Sathanas subspace rift weapon could be used.
*just had a sudden thought*
Of course, all of this is moot if the Meson is simply a humongous nuke.  I mean, it was used to destroy the Knossos because it was designed to destroy subspace nodes, not because it was just a tremendously powerful bomb, right?
And anyways, all of this (my idea) is probably silly.  I just can't see why it's so hard to understand what I've been trying to communicate.  Perhaps my misunderstanding of the Meson bomb...
PS
Quote
That's assuming reactors are built to function exactly like suns.....
You mean, by fusing atoms to produce radiation?  :lol:
PPS (don't kill me)
partial re-post from http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,38622.msg787555.html#msg787555 :
(read the rest of that post, I think it's funny!)
Quote
OK, here's a thought:  The GTVA in FS2 was worried that the Sathanas' subspace-distortion weapon could be used against ship reactors because the reactors are sort of similar to the sun...the Meson was used to collapse the Capella subspace node...22=4...Let's see if we can modify the Meson, have an automated transport jump it in beside the Gargant, and let it rip.   :eek:  Of course, you'd probably want to test the effects of the bombs as you were developing them on some old Great War relics...maybe use smaller bombs that wouldn't blow up the reactors, just cause a surge, so you could rig a ton of sensors and see what the effects are, and then finally test the real one on an old Orion or something.  And who knows, maybe you'd need more than one bomb, and of course you'd want a backup.
PPPS I'm a little sleepy right now, so if I didn't come across right or understand what was being said right, you can't blame me.  :p jk  I will look at this after I get some sleep, though.  It appears 214 had some idea as well that I didn't quite catch.  (Black Hole?!?)
PPPPS EDIT:
Quote
I think you're referring to Inferno's Tech Room entry on the Sathanas, wherein it states that the rift weapon could be turned against ships. It says nothing about reactors though.
I just noticed you said Inferno techroom.  No, I don't think I got it from there.  I believe it was a canon source.  Not to mention the fact that Inferno R1 isn't even canon in Inferno.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Shadow0000 on March 26, 2006, 12:22:21 am
Quote
You DO know how black holes are made don't you? Extra-large supernovas result in black holes. You want to waste another GTVA star system?

In any case the SubSpace Rift could lead to:

If the Mass and size of the Sun is not enough big to create a Dark Hole, but enough to go into SuperNova (and not a Nova), then a Neutron Star will result, in any case, the gravity field and Mass of a Neutron Star is truly impressive, I believe the damage done to the system would just be very much like the same.

In the other case, if the size and mass is not enough to go into SuperNova, the Sun will start rising it's temperature and just glowing more intense until, we would all get a nice tan over the skin (no, it's a joke, we'll burn to death for sure, and so anything in that system probabily).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course we don't know how a SubSpace Rift would affect a Ship, that's my whole point for think why the hell the Sathanas blow the Sun an just not the ships with it, without loose any Sathanas...this make me thinks it just doesn't work against ships with Warp Drives...

In series the SubSpace Rift is supposed to create a Warp Hole, the same you use to Warp, but in this case it does damages. However if the Ship has no Warp Drive and stands before the SubSpace Rift for some time it's Hull starts to being rip. A ship would be able to Warp just through it with a Warp Drive without suffering damage.

---------------------------------------------

Another question is why in the FMV the SubSpace Rift was Green and not blue, if you remember SubSpace horizon colour is blue, and so the Warp is also Blue.

Aside from SubSpace and Normal Space, there are supposed to be other unexplored Space Layers, that didn't really appear in the FS universe:

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/Shadow0000/spacelayers2.jpg)

Maybe the Green colour was just to reflect it was a Rift, but do it was a SubSpace one ?. A rift should be able to happen with any kind of space.

----------------------------------------------------

I recommend that you read this, you won't learn it in FreeSpace, at least for the ones that are interested in how Space Layers work:

http://personal.davidtulga.com/sct.htm

Of course most of the content is fictional, but before say something remember the past:

revolutionary: "I say the Earth is round"
Ignorant people: "He is crazy, let's kill him/her"
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Herra Tohtori on March 26, 2006, 04:30:50 am
If the Mass and size of the Sun is not enough big to create a Dark Hole, but enough to go into SuperNova (and not a Nova), then a Neutron Star will result, in any case, the gravity field and Mass of a Neutron Star is truly impressive, I believe the damage done to the system would just be very much like the same.

Yes, the damage itself would be the same, but the amount of damage made to the system is not dependant of the end result itself.

Damage made to the system results from the initial explosion only. This is because the gravitation effect of a black hole of mass M is effectively equal to the gravitation effect of a neutron star of mass M, which both are equal to gravitation effect of the original star of massa M (assuming thet the whole mass of the star would collapse and form a neutron star/event horizon/whatever. Naturally a big portion of the mass of an exploding sun ejects into space, makes considerable damage to planets and whatever is so unlucky to be there and forms an expanding "planetary nebula".

So, for example if Shivans right now compressed the sun enough for it to form an event horizon (and thus become a black hole), the orbits of planets would stay much the same. Actually the worst thing in turning the Sun into a black hole would be that the atmosphere would liquify in a day, I think... might be even less. This, of course, would soon become a serious problem to life as we know it.  :D


Quote
In the other case, if the size and mass is not enough to go into SuperNova, the Sun will start rising it's temperature and just glowing more intense until, we would all get a nice tan over the skin (no, it's a joke, we'll burn to death for sure, and so anything in that system probabily).

That will be the ultimate fate of the Sol system eventually.

Actually it has been estimated that in at most 10e9 (milliard/billion/whatever) years the Sun will become hot enough to vaporize the oceans, which will of course be quite devastating to life on Earth. On the other hand, moons of Jupiter and Saturn might spring into life.

This, of course, is RealLife(TM) Physics and has nothing whatsoever to do with FS universe, so the mission designer can plan and do pretty much what they like. "Subspace anomaly" is a good way to explain everything, as RealLife(TM) physics does not know of such thing as subspace. Mathematics does, however.  :rolleyes:

But do you know what is strangely consolatory about the fact that our time in Solar system is limited to at best 2-3 billion years? It means that we (as a species and culture) WILL EVENTUALLY GO TO STARS - or die out. Knowing the nature of human race, we probably will get to the stars. At least, some generations will definitely keep on trying for a long time. And that is IMO a very very cool thing in itself. Wish I could be there to see it. :cool:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 26, 2006, 04:08:23 pm
That theoretical study on subspace was extremely interesting. I had no idea that Star Trek's and Freespace's subspace drives were so similar. (Course in Trek they call it "Warp Drive"). I had always wondered why subspace appeared as a tunnel...

Which begs the questions: What does subspace look like if you're not surrounded by a Normal space field? And for that matter what would a Short Space tunnel look like?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Shadow0000 on March 26, 2006, 11:12:22 pm
Quote
That will be the ultimate fate of the Sol system eventually.

Aren't we supposed  to be burned by the transformation of the Sun into a Red Giant ?. I mean the actual size (and mass) of is not enough to go into a Red Supergiant (there also Blue Giants and supergiants...), so there won't be any Neutron Star, Dark Hole or Nova, the Sun is supposed to jus expulse the exterior of layers in gas clouds forming a planetary nebula, then become a White and later a Black Dwarf......

I know you wrote it right, we'll get burned, but anyways, is not as critical as a Nova (it will take much more time to succed since it already transformed from a Red Giant to a Supergiant.....)

Quote
That theoretical study on subspace was extremely interesting. I had no idea that Star Trek's and Freespace's subspace drives were so similar. (Course in Trek they call it "Warp Drive"). I had always wondered why subspace appeared as a tunnel...
.

Yes, that explanation is very convicent. It's not only FS and Star Trek, I know another series where they appear, SubSpace and Space layers concept are not so rare....
Actually if you played FS1 (or the FSPort) you should remember the CBANIMs of the Warp Drive (or was Engine?)

The Warp Drive is used to jump into a SubSpace rift (the old term used is Worm Hole), however in newer Star Trek games or Series they seem to call it SubSpace Rift. I know this because I read a review that of something "how subspace rift are used" to warp and to damage....In any case I remember reading "A ship is able to travel throught it if it has a Warp Drive and enters it at light speed", again is an additional condition, some other series says Shields. If you see FS anytime a ship starts to warp it accelerates severely it's speed

Quote
Which begs the questions: What does subspace look like if you're not surrounded by a Normal space field? And for that matter what would a Short Space tunnel look like?

We don't know, SubSpace concept is really out of knowledge at this moment, I believe it exist because it seems theorically possible, anyways until we can't reach light's speed (at least), it's not something to be really researched...

As we don't know how it should look like, there is no way of known the difference between a SubSpace Rift and other Space rifts.......

------------------------------------------------------------------

What stop me from beliving that's the Sathanas rift is not a SubSpace rift, is that, we don't know if it is possible to skip Space Layers, for example, jumping from Normal Space to Short Space without passing SubSpace.

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/Shadow0000/spacelayers2.jpg)

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/Shadow0000/tunnel.jpg)

(in other Series "Transition engines" are used for the Warp purpose, I now catch it)

By the picture itself is logically impossible, you can't avoid Space layers.....the point is that FS Warp Drives (engines), are configured to enter in SubSpace, however if they were in front of another kind of rift, they would probabily break apart, with no possible escape...
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Herra Tohtori on March 27, 2006, 02:47:31 am
My sentence "That will be the ultimate fate of the Sol system eventually" was a reference to the quote above it. But yes, it's a bit ambiguous, sorry about that :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Kie99 on March 28, 2006, 04:00:10 pm
I'm pretty sure if you loaded a couple of Warlocks full of Meson Bombs you could take out the Gargant.  Or any other ship for that matter.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Shadow0000 on March 28, 2006, 10:29:58 pm
Between being dead and sacrificing for the "better good" there is a small difference. Do you remember the Colossus ?, it was the most stupid thing the GTVA could have done. Like stopping a Sathanas would just make a difference when the Shivans have more than 70 of those ships...

Sacrifice is always a choice, but people is supposed to talk about it as a last choice. Even if it is a game you have to consider lives, and even if you tell me it has an auto-pilot device, you have to consider how much money and resources cost to build ships of that kind SJ sizes. I think were are trying to find a more rational and logiic way of kill something that big, not just by look or by brute power, but more to demostrate we are able to defend ourselves and that we can be at the same level of technology against the Shivans. The Colossus somewhat tried to represent that, however the GTVA made the mistake of believing the Shivans would use the same weapon against them once again...

Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 29, 2006, 10:10:55 am
We could create a thread of 300 replys on all the mistakes the GTVA made in FS2...
But I think it is important to point out that they didn't know that the origianal Sathanas was just the advance guard. They thought there was only one super-ship, and I think that while that narrow-minded, it's perhaps justified in that there was only one Lucifer.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Shadow0000 on March 29, 2006, 09:28:45 pm
Quote
We could create a thread of 300 replys on all the mistakes the GTVA made in FS2...

for sure, this make me remember in R1, in the escort mission (was Mission 12 ?), when the Vasudans make fun of the Terran GTVA, and then later the Vasudans loose the Asarte and almost the Tanen to the EA. It doesn't matter if Terran or Vasudan, once any species goes GTVA they can't go back...(The HoL has the Het-Ka and they are not GTVA)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on March 31, 2006, 04:25:59 pm
Quote
I think were are trying to find a more rational and logiic way of kill something that big, not just by look or by brute power,
Hmm... like if you could find a way to make it destroy itself using its own massive power...  (I think the only way you could take one out would be to have a ship with at least the same power as it, or to find a critical spot that is not protected.)

Now, here's a wild idea: I've heard that EMP devices actually were developed during the cold war by both Russia and the US, and, of course, they tried to shield their military devices in case of an attack by the other side...  I heard that an EMP blast (which would happen high in the atmosphere) would cause all wires (inside devices and out) to surge, thus causing massive destruction.  The EMP in FS is rather small and short-lived, as the weapons and consequently the surge produced is not as big.  I wonder if a Meson-sized EMP device would
work on a Gargant / Gigas?  Of course if they've got 80 of them...  :nervous:  :shaking:

PS: EDIT Of course, it will be much easier to wait for Inf Ch 3 or 4, and then pick apart the method the Inf team uses to defeat the Gargant to pieces using 20/20 hindsight.  :lol: jk, we'd never do that, right?  :)  ;)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on March 31, 2006, 04:46:52 pm
"we" might not, but someone else might.

This is all assuming they actually use the Gargant.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Shadow0000 on March 31, 2006, 08:52:02 pm
Quote
Now, here's a wild idea: I've heard that EMP devices actually were developed during the cold war by both Russia and the US, and, of course, they tried to shield their military devices in case of an attack by the other side...  I heard that an EMP blast (which would happen high in the atmosphere) would cause all wires (inside devices and out) to surge, thus causing massive destruction.  The EMP in FS is rather small and short-lived, as the weapons and consequently the surge produced is not as big.  I wonder if a Meson-sized EMP device would
work on a Gargant / Gigas?  Of course if they've got 80 of them...   

For that matter Shields and Disruption fields are used in big ships, to prevent something like that....and again like with the Black Hole or Super Nova the problem is, will Shivans fall in that kind of trap ?, opportunity, luck and chances will be always bring problems....

Anyways when I believe that Shivan technology is the very much same, we can 100% guarantee that it should work against their technology, specially against a unusual ship as the Gargant is...

There is the "Electronics" Missile, which cause a momentarily shutdown in both Engines and Weapons, subsystems, I am sure that this kind of weapon must be used against something really big, we have played campaings without this kind of weapon and be able to destroy even Juggernauts...

------------------------------------------------------------

Plus if I am not too wrong an EMP produced at surface and upper areas as atmosphere can affect something that is below the ground. It must has something to do with Mass (in the case of a ship Armor without electric devices)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 04, 2006, 09:22:37 pm
umm, I'm back, in case any of you were wondering I was down in roswell.  Anyway, Star Trek DOES NOT USE ACTUAL WARPING TECHNOLOGY. :hopping:
 On Deep Space Nine, there was a jumphole that did that, but that was an anomaly. Also, the borg home-planet had many of these holes.  The ships used in Star Trek used an anti-matter - matter drive to produce enough energy to send the ship to a velocity beyond light speed. This is explained in Enterprise, though many of you probably got bored while watching that early part of the first season.

and to comment on the EMP weapon, an EMP device emits an electromagnetic field that disrupts all electric currents (aside from the human body if you are talking about today's technology). This is acheived (I belive) by stopping the electrons from being able to jump from one atom to another.  :eek2:  :shaking: 

The EMP device can be used to make a ship's engines stop (though in space, inertia keeps a ship moving, since there is no friction to sotp the ship's momentum)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 04, 2006, 10:08:08 pm
What the hell?  :shaking:

IMO the Star Trek ships in particular use warp drives. In effect, the energy comes from annihilation all right, but it is used to "squeeze" the space in between the target point and the starting point - hence the "stretching" effect of the ship when it engages the warp drive.

This enables the ships effectively exceed speed of light in relation to other surrounding universe; however the ship never actually exceeds speed of light during its voyage through the squeezed space it travels through. All in all, I think it's very unlikely any Star Trek ship would be claimed to exceed the speed of light as the creators of the series knew perfectly well that even if all the matter of universe was transformed into energy, it wouldn't be enough to make even one electron to travel FTL. AFAIK that's the reason they invented that if the ships could use energy to shorten the way to target it wouldn't be necessary to break the causality.

Is it possible that you misunderstood something said on Enterprise?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: FireCrack on April 04, 2006, 11:52:05 pm
This is acheived (I belive) by stopping the electrons from being able to jump from one atom to another.  :eek2:  :shaking: 

It's achived by producing an electromagnetic feild that induces a current in conductive objects.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on April 05, 2006, 09:27:05 am
umm, I'm back, in case any of you were wondering I was down in roswell.  Anyway, Star Trek DOES NOT USE ACTUAL WARPING TECHNOLOGY. :hopping:

You do know what "to warp" means right? Taken literally, the term "warp" applies to Star Trek drives almost perfectly.


Question: How the hell did we get talking about Star Trek?  :lol:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Mehrpack on April 05, 2006, 05:10:01 pm
hi,
the warpdrive in StarTrek, generate with the energy of the Antimatter - matter reactor a subspace field arround the ship.

the subspace in the StarTrek universes is a space that is between our universes and another universes.
so that the normal physic doesnt exsist for the ship and the ship can fly faster as the light.
that all can you read in the technical book of the enterprise D.

to the emp.
all that you need to block a emp-weapon is to isolate the very important systems with a faraday cage or use a protector for overvolting.
with a protector, maybe the system shut down for some seconds and reboot.
i think that you doesnt neutralize the shivans long enough with a emp weapon.

but btw: the cyclops is a atom-bomb, why they havnt a emp?

Mehrpack
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 05, 2006, 05:29:12 pm
actually, the term "warp" in star trek is only loosely related to actual warping. How do you explain the stars flying by the side of the ship, a tear in normal space wouldn't have those. . . .   :D

also, sorry about the emp flub-up, it was a guess, I should have said that on the other post. . . .  :mad:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: FireCrack on April 06, 2006, 02:48:49 am
Nukes dont create EMP's unless there is a magenetic feild and an atmosphere present.

Either way, the cyclops is probably an antimatter bomb.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Qwer on April 06, 2006, 03:02:06 am
Cyclops isn't antimatter bomb, that's for sure.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Mefustae on April 06, 2006, 04:45:32 am
Nukes dont create EMP's unless there is a magenetic feild and an atmosphere present.
Plus, the possiblity that anyone in this time-period would be using technology still susceptible to EMP is effectively nil.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 06, 2006, 05:12:13 am
The sensors will be susceptible to them if nothing else is (as is proven in missions occurring in volatile nebula). If you can do nothing else with EMP missiles, you can drown your own EM signature onto the EMP. Of course this would effectively screw your own sensors too. It could be useful if you had dumbfire missiles and a capital ship to shoot at, and you wanted enemy interceptors not to get a lock on you.

I always wondered why can't you launch Cyclops and Helios missiles in dumbfire mode. Would be useful if you could press the button to toggle Aspect Locking On/Off. It'd be On by default to prevent mistakes, but the pilot should be able to embty the belly of the bomber without gaining lock, at least if the target is as big as a Ravana or so.

Anyway, the point is that if you shield your sensors for EMP's they won't be seeing very much anything else either. Thus at least one part of ship will always be prone to EMP's.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: kingdragon on April 06, 2006, 09:03:51 am
First load up the stilletos and disable the beast.

second disarm it.

third destroy all subsystems.

THEN use

The Reflex cannon from Robotech powered up with naquadria from Stargate would be be a good energy weapon to use against Gargant.

Use antimatter/ meson warhead missiles.

if it still survives, start considering magic (Ultima sounds goood)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: kingdragon on April 06, 2006, 09:07:06 am
Or track into substace, then destroy both ends by detonating 2 destroyers filled with meson/antimatter/extremely powerful explosive.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on April 06, 2006, 10:01:36 am
Woomeister has already said "no collapsing jump nodes".

Do you have ANY idea how many Stiletto III's it would take to disable the Gargant? I don't know how many engines it has, but I'm assuming it's something like the Sathanas in that respect, which means multiple engines to destroy, and then little missiles like Stilettos have almost no effect. Even Helios bombs on the engines would probably not work. It would take forever... and the Gargant would have plenty of opportunity to leave during that time, like if it noticed that some damage had been done.

I just checked back a few pages and Woomeister said "Gargant has no engine subsystem to destroy." So I'd forget about disabling it.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on April 06, 2006, 10:35:25 am
Woomeister has already said "no collapsing jump nodes".

Do you have ANY idea how many Stiletto III's it would take to disable the Gargant? I don't know how many engines it has, but I'm assuming it's something like the Sathanas in that respect, which means multiple engines to destroy, and then little missiles like Stilettos have almost no effect. Even Helios bombs on the engines would probably not work. It would take forever... and the Gargant would have plenty of opportunity to leave during that time, like if it noticed that some damage had been done.

I just checked back a few pages and Woomeister said "Gargant has no engine subsystem to destroy." So I'd forget about disabling it.
If I gave it an engine it would be a 5% of hull one which means you would need 144230 Stiletto III's to destroy the subsystem.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 06, 2006, 01:21:02 pm
 :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:

*in a small voice* we could use white holes
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on April 06, 2006, 01:28:43 pm
That is a random comment. :rolleyes:

How exactly did you arrive at that number?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on April 06, 2006, 01:50:06 pm
(5% of Gargant hull strength) divided by (Damage missile does*subsystem damage factor*Gargant armour class)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on April 06, 2006, 02:57:10 pm
and if I calculated that one right it would take 167 Apocalypse bombs to destroy the subsystem. It would take 10010 Apocalypse bombs to destroy the Gargant taking into account the new armour values. (since the subsystem damage of that bomb is far greater than the hull damage)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 06, 2006, 02:59:02 pm
GTVA duplication of the Shivan induced-supernova technology. Blow up the star when it comes into Ross 128 and see how well it does.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on April 06, 2006, 03:23:43 pm
Oh if you want an estimate of how many shots from the Icanus main gun you would need to destroy it, it's around 250.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 06, 2006, 03:43:52 pm
wowzers!!!! um, can you tell us exactly how you ARE going to blow it up (assuming that 1. you're going to use it, and 2. you are going to have it destroyed)?

and btw, I tried telling Dark Hunter how to calculate the damage, but naturally, he didn't listen. . . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on April 06, 2006, 03:46:40 pm
I didn't say we were going to blow it up.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Mehrpack on April 06, 2006, 04:05:54 pm
actually, the term "warp" in star trek is only loosely related to actual warping. How do you explain the stars flying by the side of the ship, a tear in normal space wouldn't have those. . . .   :D

also, sorry about the emp flub-up, it was a guess, I should have said that on the other post. . . .  :mad:

hi,
heh, doesnt ask me :D.

maybe the subspace in Startrek are transparent  ;7 i ask me that too, but in the books are no really explain, only that it´s like that.

Nukes dont create EMP's unless there is a magenetic feild and an atmosphere present.

Either way, the cyclops is probably an antimatter bomb.

mhh doesnt know that, but i think then it need only a magenetic field.
if then need an atmosphere too, to create an EMP, why the USA and CCCP plan to use mini-nuke to disable satellites in the orbit of the earth?

Mehrpack
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 06, 2006, 04:23:00 pm
As far as I'm concerned, every nuke produces an EMP regardless of conditions.

If the nuke goes off in an atmosphere, there is a boost in EMP, because the bomb heats and ionizes the air around the center of explosion, and when the mechanical energy of the shockwave causes the charged particles (ions) to accelerate, they emit electromagnetic radiation.

Thus a nuke exploding in a vacuum doesn't have as strong an EMP effect than a nuke going off having some gas around it. The atmosphere converts a part of the mechanical energy onto radiation, whereas in vacuum it would be "spare energy".
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 06, 2006, 05:53:46 pm
In reply to Mehrpack: umm, we only need mini-nukes on satellites, because teh satellites are so stinkin' small. Heck, in "James Bond: Die Another Day," they were *going* to blow up a satellite with an ICBM with a nuke on the tip. . . . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: nukephile on April 06, 2006, 07:11:50 pm
I don't think it's about mechanical energy or shockwave accelerating charged particles.
EMP in low altitude nuclear explosion is produced when gamma- and X-rays hit electrons away from gas atoms through Compton scattering causing charge separation in atmosphere. Ground on the other hand absorps gamma rays and this scattering effect doesn't happen in ground. Now the charge separation is asymmetric and we have a strong electric field which induces electric currents and that causes intense electromagnetic emissions. This whole thing is over in fractions of microseconds, long before hydrodynamic separation occurs. Thus mechanical shockwave doesn't play a role in the formation of EMP.

High altitude EMPs are produced when Compton recoil electrons in high atmosphere are trapped in Earth's magnetic field causing them to spiral (probably horizontally if they were travelling vertically in the first place). This movement of electrons creates an electromagnetic pulse directed downwards.

Then there are weaker magnetohydrodynamic EMPs, that for example can be caused when plasma or ionized fireball from the explosion travels through Earth's magnetic field. This distorts the magnetic field and can induce voltage spikes in long conductors like power transmission lines.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 06, 2006, 07:44:57 pm
first off, when you post on a topic, make sure that you read one page ahead before posting, if not two.      :hopping: :hopping: :hopping:

We were not talking about EMPs rocketing through space, we were talking about projectiles rocketing through space. . . .

and in response to an early post, we use EMPs in the atmosphere because thatis the easiest way to spread the "shield" if you will.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: nukephile on April 06, 2006, 10:20:59 pm
Huh...? :wtf:
I was replying to Herra Tohtori who implied that EMPs are caused by mechanical energy of the shockwave accelerating charged particles. In that context my post was relevant.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Herra Tohtori on April 07, 2006, 01:42:29 am
Agreed.

Now, this will be my last off-topic message about EMP's, but here goes:

-The effects of EMP in electronics are caused by, well, electromagnetic pulse. Which is, essentially, an intense burst of electromagnetic radiation. Rapidly changing electromagnetic field induces electric current onto closed circuits, which causes erratic behaviour or, if the current is strong enough, damages components permanently.

What then causes the pulse itself? I've always thought it was the radiation from the explosion itself. If I understood youre last message right, nukephile, it would say that EMP is caused by radiation ionizing the particles in atmosphere asymmetrically, which causes differences in amounts of free charged particles in atmosphere and resulting in strong electric fields.

I think this is somehow related to what I wrote, except that I wrote my message a tad bit unclear so let me make it a bit more clear.

Let's first consider a nuke going off in vacuum, right? In nuclear reaction fissionable material releases some fotons, usually of gamma/röntgen wave lengths. Some part of the energy also goes onto kinetic energy of reaction result particles; this can also be seen as thermal energy. The gamma/röntgen burst itself counts as an EMP, though its main effects are not on electric circuits...

If there's an atmosphere around the bomb, intense radiation heats the matter around the bomb so much that it effectively ionizes quite a bit. When these particles in close proximity to bomb go through multiple absorption-emission-cycles, they change much of gamma/röntgen radiation onto more reasonable wavelengths, ie. infra-red and visible light. Also some amount of radiowaves is emitted at little further from the center of the explosion.

Also, when you detonate a nuke in upper atmosphere in the part which is called ionosphere you have to remember that the gas there is already effectively ionized. So, the punch of gamma/röntgen burst heats the ionosphere around the bomb, which causes the ions as charged particles emit electromagnetic radiation. To my knowledge, this is the phenomoneon that makes the EMP especially strong hen a nuke detonates in ionosphere.

Compton scattering on the other hand is yet another phenomenon, that relates to Röntgen diffraction and stuff... I don't think it's necessary to pull that to this matter, it just complicates things. Basically, the whole stuff is as simple as this: accelerating charged particles emit electromagnetic radiation. The bomb's intense radiation heats a wide area of ionized gas to tremendous temperatures, resulting in very fast acceleration of the charged particles in bomb's proximity. Which then shows itself to us as

a. mechanical energy in form of fast increase of the volume of the gas (shockwave)
b. Thermal energy radiating as elecromagnetic radiation of multiple wavelengths (infra-red, visible light, radio waves, microwaves and stuff).

We can continue the debate in another thread if necessary, but physically accurate portrait of EMP generation is not necessary to discuss of means to possibly destroy the Gargant, I daresay.  :p
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on April 07, 2006, 10:41:36 am
Don't mind 214, he has a hard time knowing when someone is talking to him or the post right behind his.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Mehrpack on April 07, 2006, 06:49:05 pm
hi,
doesnt know why this is so evil offtopic?

i mean we discuss how to destroy the gargant and someone has say use emp.
now we talk over emp, i know thats a game, but why not talk about the reallife emp, if it help to understand better how it works and maybe it can work in the game itself.

Mehrpack
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on April 07, 2006, 09:48:43 pm
Interesting reads:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_bomb
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/kopp/apjemp.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1996/apjemp.htm
http://unitedstatesaction.com/emp-terror.htm
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1281421.html

Note that apparently there are ways around the Faraday cage protection and the "late-time EMP effect" (Pop Mech).
Although I'm not sure EMP would work without the Compton effect.  (US action, "Physics of the EMP").
Wild Idea:  Pack compressed air into the Meson-sized warhead??
Quote
The technology relies on an electromagnetic pulse that may be conceptualized as an electric shockwave created when a stream of highly energetic photons collides with atoms of low atomic numbers to cause them to eject a 'pulse' of electrons.
So you could make a Compton effect with enough low atomic number atoms.  Was this how the FS2 EMP warheads worked, by using stored atoms of a low atomic number??  I think I'm starting to sound looney here, though... but how did they make the EMP in FS2?  'Cause if a small warhead can knock out a subsystem for a few seconds, perhaps they could be modified to cause major damage, especially if you could get a late-time EMP effect going on inside a cap ship.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 08, 2006, 04:39:35 pm
hi,
doesnt know why this is so evil offtopic?

i mean we discuss how to destroy the gargant and someone has say use emp.
now we talk over emp, i know thats a game, but why not talk about the reallife emp, if it help to understand better how it works and maybe it can work in the game itself.

Mehrpack

umm, most intellectuals not only talk about the methods, but how, why, when, where, and who use these weapons. It's like saying, we could nuke Iraq, so let's do it." As opposed to, "Let's go nuke Iraq, but how should we do it, how many people would die, why should we nuke them as opposed to invade, when should we nuke them. . ." 

See the difference?

also, in a video game, you want to think about the game's physics as opposed to real life, because the differences between the two are staggering. . . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Mehrpack on April 08, 2006, 06:27:42 pm
umm, most intellectuals not only talk about the methods, but how, why, when, where, and who use these weapons. It's like saying, we could nuke Iraq, so let's do it." As opposed to, "Let's go nuke Iraq, but how should we do it, how many people would die, why should we nuke them as opposed to invade, when should we nuke them. . ." 

See the difference?

also, in a video game, you want to think about the game's physics as opposed to real life, because the differences between the two are staggering. . . .

hi,
i know that this is a game, and that a game make many things different because it will maybe kill the fun.
but our imagination has his source in the real world.

grr, i hate my english  :(

but i will try it:
we have talk to use emp to disable the shivans / gargant.
but we havnt enough informations for it.
so we can only guess if it will work, but if we guess we need more information how it work.
the game doesnt have this informations.
so will we look, that i work ingame, you have to know how it work in the real life, and comparing this informations.

i hope anybody understand this scrap, that i have write :)

Mehrpack
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 09, 2006, 03:21:00 pm
umm, we (the GTVA) have EMP technology, and can use it against the shivans. However, we must all remember that this is Woomeister's campaign, and if he wants to, he will use the Gargant, if he doesn't, then we have nothing to worry about. If he does use the Gargant, either A. Earth will be destroyed, or B. the GTVA will destroy the Gargant whichever way Woomeister wants them to.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on April 09, 2006, 05:34:58 pm
or C, none of the above :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Mehrpack on April 09, 2006, 06:44:50 pm
umm, we (the GTVA) have EMP technology, and can use it against the shivans. However, we must all remember that this is Woomeister's campaign, and if he wants to, he will use the Gargant, if he doesn't, then we have nothing to worry about. If he does use the Gargant, either A. Earth will be destroyed, or B. the GTVA will destroy the Gargant whichever way Woomeister wants them to.

hi,
yeah i know, but on any must base this discussion.

but anyway, i think its better we quit here this discussion, thats no go really offtopic.

ok?

@woomeister: i chose door D -> blow up the whole ****ing universes :lol:

Mehrpack
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 09, 2006, 08:15:42 pm
heh, well, let's just say us gamers like to get off topic.

hey, Woo, what exactly is option C?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on April 09, 2006, 08:37:50 pm
Option C is off-topic. :lol:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on April 10, 2006, 03:40:47 am
Option C is not destroying Earth or the Gargant.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 10, 2006, 03:51:33 am
So it ends up some kind of derelict?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on April 10, 2006, 03:56:19 am
no
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: NGTM-1R on April 10, 2006, 05:40:27 am
Well, my options here as I see it are:
A military action renders Gargant non-threat
B political action renders Gargant non-threat (i.e. make peace with the Shivans, which would probably result in an irate fan murdering you)
C Gargant was never a threat to begin with (i.e. unable to reach T-V space for some reason)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Mefustae on April 10, 2006, 05:56:54 am
D Alpha wakes up in his cockpit on a routine patrol mission, and realises the entire Third Shivan Incursion was all a freakin' dream.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 10, 2006, 01:17:55 pm
i like D, mainly because Woo is too busy NOT telling us what he is doing to the Gargant. . .


Dark Hunter, that's NOT funny
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on April 10, 2006, 01:26:41 pm
I'm trying to finnish up my pre EA Sol fleet today, I had to make another destroyer model which I wasn't expecting to do. The only ship not finalised is the Enceladus now.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on April 10, 2006, 05:52:58 pm
Well good luck to you....and may I remind you that many are anxiously awaiting the release of the new Infenro.

I hate to push..... I started my ow ncampaign and I know by now it takes forever to complete (the error-checking that is, I've only finished one mission!  :D)


Quote
Dark Hunter, that's NOT funny

Yes it was.  ;)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 10, 2006, 06:04:22 pm
to DH: it didn't make sense

to Woo: yea, DH's campaign looks like it's going to be pretty good. Also, what class is teh Enceladus?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on April 11, 2006, 04:08:30 am
Also, what class is teh Enceladus?

Space Superiority, like the Apollo.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 11, 2006, 02:05:06 pm
kewl, and are you going to share if you are going to use the Gargant or not?   if not, then please e-mail me the model so that my friend can use it in his campaign:

[email protected]



any spam found coming into this e-mail address will be immediately reported to moderators!
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on April 11, 2006, 02:07:34 pm
If I don't use the Gargant it will be released as an INF Archives ship designed for use with the next release, and would need porting over to work with regular FS2 mods.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on April 11, 2006, 05:08:55 pm
I suppose by "regular" you mean "non-Inferno"? I wouldn't worry about that little detail, since my VP file is a slightly altered Inferno file. But hey, you don't know whether you're gonna use and by the time you do I'll probably be finished anyway.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on April 11, 2006, 05:24:50 pm
Yeah but R1 counts as 'non-Inferno' too. Most of our stuff needs porting to make it work with the FS2 VPs, and most other FS2 mods will need porting to make them work with Inferno. Most R1 stuff won't work anymore until I port the maps over to our ones, then of course the tables would need changing to use our new weapons and to add armour support.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on April 15, 2006, 04:22:11 pm
@214:
Quote
HOWEVER, why don't we just develop an EMP weapon that disrupts theirt neural network (yes, a quote from Rep Comm)
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,38622.msg786667.html#msg786667
Quote
do you even know what an EMP does to humans? ? ? (if it's powerful enough)
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,38622.msg786671.html#msg786671

-Would you care to guess the author of those quotes?   ;7  :drevil:  :lol:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on April 15, 2006, 07:06:50 pm
Ohhhh! I know I know! Pick me!

Spoiler:
It was 214 himself!
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: aldo_14 on April 16, 2006, 09:26:03 am
any spam found coming into this e-mail address will be immediately reported to moderators!

Um, you do realise there are autonomous webspiders that roam the net specifically to harvest email addresses?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 18, 2006, 01:29:51 pm
in rep to jr2:   Yes, I know, 'twas me, so?!


We could try. . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: jr2 on April 18, 2006, 02:04:57 pm
214
Quote
in rep to jr2:   Yes, I know, 'twas me, so?!


We could try. . .

OK, now I'm just plain confused...
I was pretty sure that somewheres between page 7 and 9 214 got mad at one of the posts on EMPs because they were "off topic".  So I thought that was kind of funny that 214 was the one who brought EMPs up in the first place.  Now I'm wondering if I've been sleep-reading in the HLP forums... 'cause I can't find it!
Note to self:
Quote
If you're going to catch a contradiction, quote both sides of the statement in question.  It makes things much better if you catch yourselft before you stick your foot in your mouth.

@214: Sorry.  I guess the answer is "so what?"
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on April 18, 2006, 05:48:03 pm
umm, I just got mad at the person who posted in the form who I thought hadn't read the post.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: aceofspades on April 30, 2006, 01:58:43 am
As to destroying the Gargant, no one seems to have thought of the easiest way:

Just announce that the ship will appear in a Machina Terra mission. That way the ship will disappear and no one will ever see it again - even the .pof model will be replaced with a large sign saying "Coming Soon..." Problem solved.

*Runs away from MT people*
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on April 30, 2006, 03:07:24 pm
lol  :lol:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: aceofspades on April 30, 2006, 08:52:44 pm
I'm sure they're related  :nod:
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: NGTM-1R on May 08, 2006, 04:32:46 am
Or just put it in a Blackwater Ops mission and you will never see it again :p

Actually, you probably would...
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: aceofspades on May 08, 2006, 06:44:41 pm
Or just put it in a Blackwater Ops mission and you will never see it again :p

Actually, you probably would...

After all, they have released a demo. More than some other huge mods I know of  :p
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: aceofspades on May 09, 2006, 01:47:16 am
WDYM? Inferno only has one chapter in it right?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Qwer on May 09, 2006, 04:47:18 am
R1 - yes, R2 - temporarily. :D
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on May 09, 2006, 09:58:11 am
Inferno released a chapter before they decided to add stuff and go with SCP.
We've released 2 Ancients demos, R1, and lots of misc ships over the years. We've released more content than most of the other main campaigns combined.
We ported R1 to SCP as R1.5 however the changes became to great so we decided to redo it all to a better quality instead of hacking in SCP features to R1. I then ported R2 to INF SCP Core as a stand alone project not requiring FS2 to help prevent mishaps with INF Builds.

WDYM? Inferno only has one chapter in it right?
R1 was originally 3-4 chapters long which were going to be released in stages. 1+2 was EA War and Gigas incursion, 3 was Ancients and 4 was something a bit different :D (Gargant was supposed to be in 4)
INF SCP will probably be 2 main chapters and several smaller projects like the Gateways and Origin, as well as porting as many FS2 mod ships as I can, which should give you more ships than even Inferno builds can handle if you try to load everything at once.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: aceofspades on May 09, 2006, 07:35:11 pm
What I mean is, the total playable content that has been released amounted to one chapter...The only thing I've played that was called inferno is from the campaign to push back EA incursions, to the third shivan contact, the treaty with the EA, and the discovery of the Gigas. You appear to mention two Ancients demos though?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on May 09, 2006, 09:07:11 pm
yes, those are on another campaign (correct me if I'm wrong). Hello, I'm the creator of this topic.

This IS a place to talk about the Inferno campaign, but please, keep it to that, any talk other than Inferno-related posts will be reported to mods.

Please, continue. . .
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on May 10, 2006, 09:44:17 am
What I mean is, the total playable content that has been released amounted to one chapter...The only thing I've played that was called inferno is from the campaign to push back EA incursions, to the third shivan contact, the treaty with the EA, and the discovery of the Gigas. You appear to mention two Ancients demos though?
Well if we used everything in chapter 1 there would be nothing new for the others. R1 didn't include the entire modpack at the time either, since we didn't want people playing with some things at that time.
Yeah Ancient Demo 1 is very old, when we still used a lot of reskins instead of new models. Demo 2 was closer to R1. Doubt either would work under SCP, but they should still be on fileplanet (forum search might find them)

Are you in charge?
I'm the one in charge here. (in case anyone hasn't figured that out yet)
I will close this thread if it gets out of hand, but then we'll just get version 4 or so of it being restarted. As long as it remains civil I'll keep it open. Though this is the INF discussion forums you can mention other campaigns without fear of lockage, just don't go starting I love BWO threads here, that's what the BWO forum is for :)
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: NGTM-1R on May 10, 2006, 03:39:29 pm
I'm sorely tempted to apply the Ultimate FreeSpace InsultTM.

IIRC Demo 2 worked with SCP, sort of. But that was nearly a year ago.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: neoterran on May 10, 2006, 05:16:36 pm
Hi, I've searched and I cannot find the ancients demo #2, Anyone like to pm me with it or grace us with a link ? Appreciated.

Found it, if anyone else wants it is is at http://www.sectorfiles.net/f2s/models/ademo2.exe
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on May 11, 2006, 09:41:47 am
Here's number 1:
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl.aspx?3dactionplanet/freespace/ACDemo1.zip

Probably won't run on SCP though, and 2 is far better.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: spartan_0214 on May 11, 2006, 10:46:17 am
Quote
Why do you keep threatening to report people on this board to Moderators? First when you posted your email address and now this. Are you in charge?

Gee, I wish, but hey, that's what mods are for, such as Woomeister.

What is this demo you guys are talking about?
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on May 13, 2006, 10:54:18 pm
I believe they're talking about a release of Ancient species-ships. Don't think there are any missions included, but don't trust me cause I haven't downloaded it. Don't see a need to either, since I have R1 and therefore all the Ancient ships included therein (as do you I might point out, since I gave you that beta version of the Echoes VP file, and that contained the ancients ships.)

And BTW, it's generally very stupid to post your e-mail address in a public forum.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on May 14, 2006, 04:05:41 am
The demos included missions otherwise they would of been pointless.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Dark Hunter on May 15, 2006, 12:07:12 pm
They wouldn't have been pointless just as releases of the ship models for people to use, and I guess that's what I thought they were.
Title: Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Post by: Woomeister on May 15, 2006, 01:06:11 pm
Those were early WIP of the final R1 ships, they weren't really meant for other uses.