Hard Light Productions Forums
Announcements => Announcements => Topic started by: Announcements on June 24, 2013, 09:39:42 pm
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Calling all Modders! If you think you can put together a decent Freespace ship, well now's the time to bust out your dusty old 3d program, scrub the rust off your image editor and tighten up the nuts and bolts of your PCS2 install because those ships could make you some cold hard cash. It's contest time!
Rule 4 has changed - please re-read.
The Details:
The contest will be split into categories based on species - Terrans, Vasudans and Shivans will all get individual awards, along with an overall winner from any species. All ship types are acceptable, from drones and fighters to supercaps and mega installations, as are ships from all FS eras (Pre Great War to Post Capella). Judging will be based not just on aesthetics, but also on creativity, backstory, ingame balance, technical quality, the use of SCP features, in game features and value to campaign makers.
If we get enough entries (10 or more) a "People's choice" award will be activated, wherein HLP members will be allowed to choose their favourite ship from among the runners up by means of a forum poll. If we get a large number of entries (20+), this will be further split - probably into fighters and bomber / capships or on a species by species basis, depending on the makeup of the entries.
To enter, post a release thread on the FS Modding board within the contest period. Your ship will be added to the list below. If it isn't added in a timely fashion, PM a global mod or admin, and it'll get added.
Judges will be announced in the near future, as will details on the weighting for various features.
Entries close @ 23:59:59 GMT, 30th Spetember 2013
The Prizes:
Best Overall Model: $100 US
Best Terran, Vasudan, Shivan model: $50 US x 3
Best Newcomer: $50 US
People's Choice $30 US
Winners will also receive the much coveted HLP Gold Star! Recognition and glamour - the ultimate reward!
NB - Further categories may be added if anyone is willing to kick in additional funding.
The Rules:
- Multiple entires in the same or different categories (i.e. species) are acceptable and encouraged, however, no individual may win more than one major prize (i.e. the "Best Overall Model" and "Best Terran, Vasudan, Shivan model". However, the people's choice prize, should it be activated, will be open to all runners up, including unsuccessful ships from previous winners. No individual may win more than one people's choice prize should multiple categories be activated.
- Ships must be new - no previously released models will be accepted. Models previously completed but unreleased are acceptable if released during the competition period (ie. 25-06-2013 - 30-09-2013).
- Models released as part of a campaign release are not acceptable - ships must be released individually prior to any bundled release to be eligible to win.
- The purpose of the contest is to increase the pool of available Freespace mods for campaign designers to make use of. Therefore, all entires must be released publicly, and it is a requirement of entry that all entries include some form of written license granting and guaranteeing that non-exclusive right into the future. As long as access and free use (for at least the purpose of non-commercial FS2_Open usage) is made clear, no specific license is a requirement. This may take the form of a document included as part of the download, or a statement from the author in the release thread.
- Ships must be original - i.e. HTLs of Volition ships are not acceptable, nor are recreations of models from external sources (e.g. films, TV shows etc.) Ships should be designed for the Freespace universe and should not be obviously, identifiably intended for other universes (such as Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, etc. etc.).
- HTLing community made ships from a retail standard to a modern is acceptable, as long as the original author does not object. If ambiguous, ships will be dealt with on a case by case basis - if you are uncertain, contact a judge before commencing your project.
- Ships must be functional in FSO with the latest mediaVPs installed, and include at least a LoD0 model (pof), a diffuse map (if not utilizing existing tile maps) and a table file. Points will be deducted for bugs, and added for completeness (e.g. debris, LoDs, normal maps etc.) Ships which cannot be made to work in FSO will be disqualified.
- Ships utilizing new features such as new weapon types, scripted capabilities etc. are acceptable, as long as all necessary files are included with the release.
- Teamups are acceptable, however only one prize will be sent out. Further splitting will be up to the individuals on the team. It is encouraged that weighting for prize money be worked out ahead of time.
- Prizes will be sent out by PayPal. Arrangements can be made with contest winners to vary this (e.g. prizes by way of vouchers to online stores, transfer into accounts etc.), however all moneys must be transferred electronically - posting cash or cheques will not be undertaken.
- Rules are subject to limited change following community consultation.
Notes on the "Best Newcomer" category
- Eligibility for this prize is open to all individuals who have never released a model before on HLP. In order to confirm entry in this category rather than one of the "senior" categories, mention this on your release thread.
- The model must conform with all above rules.
- Best newcomer models are eligible for the main prize, but not for the individual species prizes. Best Newcomer models are eligible for the People's Choice prize, should it be activated.
- Best newcomer models will be judged according to the same criteria as all other entries.
- We are aware of the potential for abuse in this category, and request a degree of self regulation from entrants. Although technically open to anyone who has never released a model before, we would ask that those who may have considerable modelling/texturing experience away from HLP would consider the purpose of this prize and enter themselves in one of the other categories. We reserve the right to "promote" to the more senior categories if it is determined that the system is being abused.
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Judges have been finalized! They are:
- Admiral MS
- Black Wolf
- FIZ
- mjn.mixael
Thanks to all those who volunteered - this panel of four should provide us with a wide range of opinions, perspectives and levels of experience, and hopefully represents a wide cross section of the community.
Following consultation amongst the four judges, the following rules have been determined for the allocation of points.
Please note that the descriptions are not intended to be exhaustive or prescriptive. Rather, they are intended to give judges and contestants an idea of the sort of factors that should be considered in each category. Individual judges will assign points according to these criteria as well as others of their own criteria on a per model basis.
Visual considerations
- Model (Aesthetic): 15 points
How does the model look? Does it fit established aesthetics for the species? Is it interesting, eye catching, memorable? Does it look like something that might exist in the real world? - Model (Technical): 10 points
Is the model optimized? Is detail density fairly regular across the mesh? - Texture (Aesthetic): 15 points
How does the texture look (on the model)? Does it complement the model? Does it fit established aesthetics for the species? Does it look real, or is it overly cartoony or "drawn" rather than "built"? - Texture (Technical): 5 points
Is the texture well made? If UVed, does the UV map have good projection, no stretches or strong variances in pixel desity. - Visual Overall: 5 points
Does the model integrate well with the texture (AO baked, hull lines following ship contours etc.). Do the shine and diffuse maps complement rather than clash?
Technical Considerations
- Bug Free?: 10 points
Minor bugs, like a UV error or a badly chosen tech room view distance might knock a point off. Major bugs, like non functional turrets or crashes during docking would knock many points off. Ships that crash FSO would be excluded entirely - some degree of stability is an entry requirement. - Completeness: 10 points
Full marks here would include Lod0, three (well made) smaller LoDs, debris, -destroyed submodels, a fully fleshed out table file, diffuse, shine, glow and normal maps and a full set of pof data (including subsystems, dockpoints, paths etc.)
Gameplay Considerations
- Balance: 5 points
Does the model compare well to [V] or other mod ships of similar class? - Value to FREDders and Players: 10 points
Is the model interesting, or unique in some way? Does it have broad usefulness for campaign builders? Does it feel like a valuable addition to existing Volition fleet, or (better yet) the community's existing high quality modset? Critically, is it fun to fight with or against?
Other Considerations
- Bonus points: 15 points
These are additional points to recognize extra work not covered in the previous categories that deserve recognition such as (but not limited to) high quality backstory/tech description, unique new weapon types, overall model complexity (e.g. destroyers vs. fighters), usage of advanced SCP features etc. etc. These points will be allocated entirely at the judge’s discretion.
Judges Final Mark: 10 points
- This is a subjective grade out of ten given by the judge. It is not an average of the previous results, but represents the judge's opinion about the mode as an overall product.
Scoring and Associated Rules
- Final marks will be presented as two numbers, and represent the total score and the total judges score, i.e. out of a maximum possible score of 400-40.
- Judges scores are final.
- Scoring will be based on the first submitted version of the model, except in cases where community or creator testing discovers bugs. In this situation, the creator will have one week from the initial release to adjust the ship to fix the bug. However, adjustments to the score related to the new version will only apply in the scoring category associated with bug-free models.
- Prizes will be allocated based solely on the first figure (out of 400), except in the event of a tie, where the ship with the highest judges score will prevail.
- In the event of a tie in both Total score and Judges score, each judge’s total score (i.e. out of 400) for the two vessels will be compared, and the higher scoring ship will be allocated one point per judge, i.e. a score out of four.
- If this final step does not produce a winner (i.e. a 2-2 split) the two ships will be considered equal, and both entrants will win the category and associated prize. In the case of the major prize, if the two ships are of the same species, then this will be given in place of the second place species prize. If they are of separate species, then the second place species prize will not be affected.
- In the event of certain highly unlikely circumstances (3 way ties, precisely equal total scores from one judge for two tied ship or other unforeseen circumstances) a decision regarding prize allocations will be made in consultation with the winners.
NB - we are well aware of previous HLP contests that have failed to deliver results in a timely fashion. To avoid this in this instance, any judges that do not complete their duties on time will be removed from consideration, and points will be allocated based on the decisions of the remaining judges.
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Current Entrants:
Terran:
- TF Zelos (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=84918.0) by fightermedic
- GTI Europa (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=80871.0) by Shivan Hunter
- TF Electron (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85272.0) by Shivan Hunter
- GTI Castalia (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=84897.msg1715420#msg1715420) - by Vasudan Admiral
- GTF Iaeptus (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85162.0) - by bobbtmann
- UEFg Murugan (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85695.msg1715436#msg1715436) - by Esarai
Vasudan:
- GVF Nhu (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85233.0) by Oddgrim.
- Duat (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85139.msg1715423#msg1715423) - by Oddgrim
Shivan:
- SSP Chakra (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85186.0) by fightermedic.
- SSFg Beelzeboul and SDr Imp (http://www.mediafire.com/download/2xksi692dpblwt1/beelzeboul_1.0_imp_1.0.rar) by fightermedic.
Newcomer:
- GVCv Mahal (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85111.0) by fightermedic.
- GTF Gilgamesh (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=85699.0) - by Dahblount
- GVB Ammit (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=84916.msg1715455#msg1715455) - by Lepanto
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i volunteer for people's choice judge. :P
i would be willing to be a judge, unfortunately i'm not really qualified on any technical aspects of modding.
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Question RE: rule 5, "Ships must be original - i.e. HTLs of Volition ships are not acceptable."
Would a ship that was based on a Volition ship be acceptable? Say... a fighter that shares some similarities with a Perseus but also with significant changes?
Related: does anybody need an idea for a fighter based on a Perseus but also with significant changes for their entry?
But I think this is really a cool thing to do, I'm sure we'll see some really cool stuff.
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Lovely timing, my major school graphics project is just about to start. Will have to see what I can come up with.
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Shouldn't that be named "Ship Creation contest" instead ? Modding covers a whole lot more than that and that title definitely confused the **** out of me when I read what it was about. A huge part of the community here are modders that don't have any of the skills required to compete here. FREDers, scripters, tablers...
It also seems you are restricting yourself to Terran/Vasudan/Shivan ships, which is a huge mistake imho. If that was not your intention, it might be a good idea to make it clearer that all kind of ships are accepted.
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Question RE: rule 5, "Ships must be original - i.e. HTLs of Volition ships are not acceptable."
Would a ship that was based on a Volition ship be acceptable? Say... a fighter that shares some similarities with a Perseus but also with significant changes?
Well, we'd assess it on a case by case basis, but the way you're describing it sounds like it would probably be OK.
The purpose of the contest is to promote the creation of new, high quality ships (particularly in the Vasudan and Shivan fleet) for campaigns to make use of. HTLs of [V] ships are disallowed because, while cool and often to a really high standard of quality, they don't advance that goal; the total pool of ships available to modders to use in campaigns doesn't increase. What you're describing sounds like it would be different enough to the Perseus that it would represent an increase to the total pool, and so would be a valid entry.
Shouldn't that be named "Ship Creation contest" instead ? Modding covers a whole lot more than that and that title definitely confused the **** out of me when I read what it was about. A huge part of the community here are modders that don't have any of the skills required to compete here. FREDers, scripters, tablers...
Arguably yes - it was originally going to be a "Modelling" contest, but I wanted to emphasize that it was about producing an ingame ship - i.e. a textured and converted model, rather than just a mesh. "Ship Creation" is probably a better name - we'll remember that for next time.
It also seems you are restricting yourself to Terran/Vasudan/Shivan ships, which is a huge mistake imho. If that was not your intention, it might be a good idea to make it clearer that all kind of ships are accepted.
This point came up on IRC - yes, the contest is restricted to Terran, Vasudan and Shivan ships. The reason for this is twofold:
1. It's much harder to judge ships against one another if there was an "other" category; and
2. As described above, the aim here is to promote the creation of a pool of modern, high quality ships for campaign builders to make use of. Like it or not, the vast majority of campaigns can make use of Terran, Vasudan and Shivan ships. The same is not true of even well established species like the Nightmares and Ancients, let alone ships from utterly unique species. It's all about getting the maximum utility for the largest number of people out of the products of the contest, and the Terran/Vasudan/Shivan focus will do that.
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Then how do you define "Terran", for example ? Is a Karuna Terran ? Is the Emperor Terran ? Is Aesaar's Diomedes Terran ? Is a Battlestar Terran ?
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Ummm....
I don't seem to remember the winners of the last HLP contest being announced.....from 2005 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=33629.0).
I'm not saying a new contest is a bad idea; just that some loose ends should probably have been tied up, prior to this announcement.
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Then how do you define "Terran", for example ? Is a Karuna Terran ? Is the Emperor Terran ? Is Aesaar's Diomedes Terran ? Is a Battlestar Terran ?
I would expect that ships modelled directly from other IPs would be disallowed (Battlestar) while ships inspired by other IPs would generally be fair-game or case-by-case. As for what fits as "Terran".. well that's for the judges to decide, I suppose. I'd think the same would hold true for Terran ships as would Shivan and Vasudan. The judges will grant points based on how well the ship fits the category it was submitted under. So, it's probably not a good idea to submit a red/black ship as Vasudan :p. You are right that Terran designs would likely have a lot more leeway though.
But I don't think we need to split hairs here over it, especially since I suspect you won't be directly entering. (If it came up from someone who wanted to do it... or if you are entering, then we might go deeper. However, as of this discussion it's entirely theoretical. :) ) I also suspect that in 99.9% of the cases.. people have a good idea of what constitutes a ship intended to look 'Terran' or 'designed by humans'.
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Then how do you define "Terran", for example ? Is a Karuna Terran ? Is the Emperor Terran ? Is Aesaar's Diomedes Terran ? Is a Battlestar Terran ?
Yes, Yes, Yes, No. I've clarified the rules about external sources and the FS universe. Keep in mind also that "value to campaign makers" is listed as an attribute that will be judged. If someone wanted to enter the Karuna (assuming, for the sake of the hypothetical, that it wasn't invalid due to toher reasons), or another UEF style ship, it would probably be judged slightly lower in that category, but it wouldn't be excluded by any means. Judging for aesthetics may also include a factor like "How well does it fit into the existing fleet?", although that hasn't been decided yet as the judges haven't all been chosen yet. When they are (and I'm hoping that will be sooner rather than later), the criteria will be made public, and people can decide how they want to approach the contest.
Ultimately, we're going to get some good judges, and I'm confident that any good quality, well made model that will be of use to campaign designers will score very highly. Why not give us the benefit of the doubt for once?
[EDIT]Ninja'd by Mjn - he has the right idea. :nod:
Ummm....
I don't seem to remember the winners of the last HLP contest being announced.....from 2005 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=33629.0).
I'm not saying a new contest is a bad idea; just that some loose ends should probably have been tied up, prior to this announcement.
This contest is entirely separate to that one. And I don't think we'd be better off refusing to do anything just because our last attempt didn't go so well. After all - it was eight years ago - things have changed since then. :)
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This sounds like last minute motivational push to complete unfinished FSU assets more than anything else. I can already hear Hades among others sobbing in a corner.
While it was confirmed earlier that ships like Karuna, Emperor, Diomedes are considered Terran, I'm not sure if that is entirely fair because they are by far very different from any canonical FS Terran designs. These ships could just as well be from another fictional universe like BSG, B5 or SW and yet those are excluded.
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Amazing, worth it for that gold star alone!!
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This sounds like last minute motivational push to complete unfinished FSU assets more than anything else. I can already hear Hades among others sobbing in a corner.
While it was confirmed earlier that ships like Karuna, Emperor, Diomedes are considered Terran, I'm not sure if that is entirely fair because they are by far very different from any canonical FS Terran designs. These ships could just as well be from another fictional universe like BSG, B5 or SW and yet those are excluded.
Actually, the basic idea goes back around 12 months, it just wasn't acted on at the time - admittedly, it's been modified from its original platform, somewhat, but the concept of a ship making contest has been there the whole time. And the FSU assets would be excluded under the rules of the competition - please read the post before jumping to conclusions and making accusations.
Now, I realize that the rules of the contest aren't going to make everyone joyously happy. But they are the rules. While I'm happy to clarify them - especially for people who intent to actually enter rather than just bringing up potential problems that might come up in the future - I don't see them changing, either. We wont be adding an "other" category, or a UEF category, or a category for other universes or anything like that. Those kinds of models belong in a different contest (excluding UEF I suppose, technically). If people wish to participate in this contest, however, they can do so by submitting a Terran, Shivan or Vasudan model. If they don't want to make one of those models, they're not under any obligation to participate in the contest. If we come up against situations that are potentially iffy, the judges will review them on a case by case basis, and again, I'd ask for the benefit of the doubt that we'll make reasonable calls here. I promise that nobody who's made a legitimate effort to comply with the rules of the contest will be excluded.
[EDIT]Just as an aside, as mjn pointed out, submitting a spiky red and black ship as Vasudan would probably cost the submitter significant points because it wouldn't look Vasudan. The Emperor, Diomedes and Karuna all look more Terran than Vasudan or Shivan, plus they have the blue engine glows and "Terran" in their ship table (or UEF I suppose, but that's just another name for Human/Terran) so they'll be judged as Terran. However, if this hypothetical contest entrant wants to submit a theoretical ship in one of those styles in a different category, he'd be welcome to. It would just be a strange choice.
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May the force be with us!
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This sounds like last minute motivational push to complete unfinished FSU assets more than anything else. I can already hear Hades among others sobbing in a corner.
While it was confirmed earlier that ships like Karuna, Emperor, Diomedes are considered Terran, I'm not sure if that is entirely fair because they are by far very different from any canonical FS Terran designs. These ships could just as well be from another fictional universe like BSG, B5 or SW and yet those are excluded.
Actually, the basic idea goes back around 12 months, it just wasn't acted on at the time - admittedly, it's been modified from its original platform, somewhat, but the concept of a ship making contest has been there the whole time. And the FSU assets would be excluded under the rules of the competition - please read the post before jumping to conclusions and making accusations.
Now, I realize that the rules of the contest aren't going to make everyone joyously happy. But they are the rules. While I'm happy to clarify them - especially for people who intent to actually enter rather than just bringing up potential problems that might come up in the future - I don't see them changing, either. We wont be adding an "other" category, or a UEF category, or a category for other universes or anything like that. Those kinds of models belong in a different contest (excluding UEF I suppose, technically). If people wish to participate in this contest, however, they can do so by submitting a Terran, Shivan or Vasudan model. If they don't want to make one of those models, they're not under any obligation to participate in the contest. If we come up against situations that are potentially iffy, the judges will review them on a case by case basis, and again, I'd ask for the benefit of the doubt that we'll make reasonable calls here. I promise that nobody who's made a legitimate effort to comply with the rules of the contest will be excluded.
[EDIT]Just as an aside, as mjn pointed out, submitting a spiky red and black ship as Vasudan would probably cost the submitter significant points because it wouldn't look Vasudan. The Emperor, Diomedes and Karuna all look more Terran than Vasudan or Shivan, plus they have the blue engine glows and "Terran" in their ship table (or UEF I suppose, but that's just another name for Human/Terran) so they'll be judged as Terran. However, if this hypothetical contest entrant wants to submit a theoretical ship in one of those styles in a different category, he'd be welcome to. It would just be a strange choice.
I'd recommend against going this way, since i believe that the spirit of the contest would be "do new, canon FS2 style ships". And if you let in the UEF for terrans, you just axed that particular idea, since the general style of FS2 Terrans gets utterly diluted.
as a side note, i'm thinking should i go judging or should i go making -.-
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But I don't think we need to split hairs here over it, especially since I suspect you won't be directly entering. (If it came up from someone who wanted to do it... or if you are entering, then we might go deeper. However, as of this discussion it's entirely theoretical. :) )
I was thinking of entering as a judge, but thank you for throwing me away as an old sock so soon :p
I am just trying to raise the hard questions before they become a problem.
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Isn't it best done beforehand, afaik this contest is now live.
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Well it would have been best if we had any kind of warning, this thing just dropped from exactly nowhere, and the hard questions were there.
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But I don't think we need to split hairs here over it, especially since I suspect you won't be directly entering. (If it came up from someone who wanted to do it... or if you are entering, then we might go deeper. However, as of this discussion it's entirely theoretical. :) )
I was thinking of entering as a judge, but thank you for throwing me away as an old sock so soon :p
I am just trying to raise the hard questions before they become a problem.
Asking if three ships that were meant to be of FreeSpace Terran origin are alright in a competition about... FreeSpace-intended ships was silly and not a "hard question", though asking about other scifi universes wasn't as much.
I'd recommend against going this way, since i believe that the spirit of the contest would be "do new, canon FS2 style ships". And if you let in the UEF for terrans, you just axed that particular idea, since the general style of FS2 Terrans gets utterly diluted.
as a side note, i'm thinking should i go judging or should i go making -.-
I'm not sure I can agree with this. In general, the canonical Terran style isn't really consistent with itself, there's quite a lot of variation in it already, even in the same era. The Poseidon is very unlike the Chronos, and both of those are quite different to the Triton. FreeSpace 2's biggest consistency in style was the gigantic Jay Leno chin engine replicas on most of its capital ships.
Either way, it's likely the judges can judge based on their opinions on how a FreeSpace Terran, Vasudan, or Shivan ship can look, however biased their opinion may be.
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Asking if three ships that were meant to be of FreeSpace Terran origin are alright in a competition about... FreeSpace-intended ships was silly and not a "hard question",
The "Freespace-intended" part was not clearly stated until I explicitely pointed it out. It just said "for use by modders" or something.
As for the other universes, remember how the Karuna never hid its B5 inspirations, or the Custos and Nexus, or the Blizzard and the Starfury, or Aesaar's ships and Hiigarans... We have "Terran" ships with inspiration from other universes all over the place.
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guys can we calm down.
- a ship's Terrenness will be decided by the judges,
- talking about pre existing designs is pointless as they cant be entered anyway
- the rules state if you are unsure about something pm Black Wolf, I am sure if enough questions are raised on something the rules will be amended anyway
- inspiration from franchise "x" is not a problem but as stated might reduce the available marks as it is not 100% original
- the purpose of this competition is to inject new community wide resources into the pool
- who cares who wins, its a small cash incentive not the lottery jackpot, enter, enjoy the competition and relax, if you get disqualified its no biggie you still contributed to the community
edit
wording
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Ships must be functional in FSO with the latest mediaVPs installed, and include at least a LoD0 model (pof), a diffuse map (if not utilizing existing tile maps) and a table file. Points will be deducted for bugs, and added for completeness (e.g. debris, LoDs, normal maps etc.) Ships which cannot be made to work in FSO will be disqualified.
This should probably refer to a particular FSO version.
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Holy shebang, I am so getting in on this.
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:yes:
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I suspect "ship" means also a whole complex, like a city?
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good question, installations count so I dont see why not
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Alright think I'll join in on this as well. c:
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already dusted of a design I started beginning of the month and then lost interest in lol.
I am probably going to get my ass kicked but all the same this should be good!
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Thinking about starting an Intrade bet on who's gonna win.
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Awesome! I'd enter for judge, if only I was certain I had the time...
- no individual may win more than one major prize (i.e. the "Best Overall Model" and "Best Terran, Vasudan, Shivan model").
So do I understand it correctly that the Best Terran, Vasudan and Shivan Model will not be eligible for Best Overall Model? In that case, calling the prize 'best overall' seems a bit odd. Or is it the other way around, and does Best Overall go between the three category winners?
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"Here's an idea to encourage people to make really good ships for Freespace!"
"Here's all the problems with your idea!"
:rolleyes:
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"Here's a contest with money involved"
"Here are some potential issues you'd like to think about before people get all angry at the money they won't get because of vague rules"
FTFY
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Well... I've really only seen non-modellers insistently complaining. If someone who is actively modeling something raises concerns... They will be dealt with.
I understand you are trying to help... But all the complaining about this and that is making the whole contest seem like a typical HLP downer... How about we let the people who want to enter as-is do so and enjoy it?
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Well... I've really only seen non-modellers insistently complaining. If someone who is actively modeling something raises concerns... They will be dealt with.
I understand you are trying to help... But all the complaining about this and that is making the whole contest seem like a typical HLP downer... How about we let the people who want to enter as-is do so and enjoy it?
Har.
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I'm really not seeing all the downer you are seeing here. Mostly enthusiasm and some doubts about details, except perhaps for Fury's ill-conceived reasoning which wasn't even logical to begin with (how can this be conceived as a "motivational push" for FSU if it deliberately excludes upgrades to original assets?!?!?).
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if you read MatthTheGeek's posts there is very little to actually support the comp and lots of fault finding which I must admit I find hard to reason that they are any problem at all
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Ok guys, stop ****ing around and listen.
I think this contest is a genuinely great idea. This goes without saying, and I shouldn't even have to point that obvious fact.
However, having money involved in it is something the community is not used to and perhaps not prepared to, and a potential source of unnecessary drama.
What I was trying to do right here is pointing all the potential concerns as they occur to me when reading the rules, so the organizers (I don't know if BW is alone leading the show or what) can give answers to them sooner rather than later, and make the whole process more painless for all parties involved.
Now, if you'd rather **** on the face of people trying to help, go ahead. Or maybe you should start a ****-flinging contest instead.
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SNIP
...unnecessary drama.
SNIP
Indeed
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Then again, rather have it sooner than later, right ? :p
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if you read MatthTheGeek's posts there is very little to actually support the comp and lots of fault finding which I must admit I find hard to reason that they are any problem at all
I take his doubts as a sign he's very interested in this competition. Personally I'm psyched to see the results of it!
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I like this idea. I'm in.
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(how can this be conceived as a "motivational push" for FSU if it deliberately excludes upgrades to original assets?!?!?).
Because I missed that little tidbit of information when I was reading the rules.
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I might do something for this.
However, there's 2 things I think should be made clearer:
1. Perceptions of what make a ship Freespacey may vary. Heck, even when it comes to each species! A sort of "guideline" stating the judges vision on these points would be very useful and enlightening.
2. What about ship scales? I mean, if someone does a destroyer, it's assumed that he\she has put more time into the work, to achieve the same level of quality of someone who did a fighter. Might be worth considering this, and how it would be dealt with.
My 2 cents :)
EDIT: oh and give Oddgrim his 50 bucks already, no point pretending :P
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Should have made it voltion ships only, FSU would be done in no time. :p (jk)
What a wonderful way to reinvigorate the community, can't wait to see the results!
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EDIT: oh and give Oddgrim his 50 bucks already, no point pretending :P
Nooooes, I want to see what others might do! :p
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EDIT: oh and give Oddgrim his 50 bucks already, no point pretending :P
Nooooes, I want to see what others might do! :p
ah come on, you know you've won already ;)
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I think we could spice things up a bit... add some more rules. For instance, how about a rule like "Oddgrim can't participate with a Vasudan model." :P
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EDIT: oh and give Oddgrim his 50 bucks already, no point pretending :P
Nooooes, I want to see what others might do! :p
ah come on, you know you've won already ;)
i dont know, esarai is not to be ignored
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well, the dagger has made some very good vasudan models too, but still, if everything goes the way you'd think, i can't see oddgrim not winning this
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I would also want to see what eresai and thedagger have up their sleeves. But really who knows what will be produced in this? I'm giddy with anticipation to see what others might will make. :p
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Well, there are many good modelers in this comunity so it should be pretty good if we get enough people interested. So, let's wait and see what the community can make. I seriously think this could be a great celebration of the quality work we as a community can achieve.
And let's not start giving prices even before the first submissions are made, as we want people to participate instead of just saying "Meh, I won't win anyway so what's the point". I'll be participating just for the fun of it but other people may feel differently.
(Oh... and I'd like to see newman and bobbtman also getting into this, that would be epic :nod:)
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Ships must be functional in FSO with the latest mediaVPs installed, and include at least a LoD0 model (pof), a diffuse map (if not utilizing existing tile maps) and a table file. Points will be deducted for bugs, and added for completeness (e.g. debris, LoDs, normal maps etc.) Ships which cannot be made to work in FSO will be disqualified.
This should probably refer to a particular FSO version.
This is a fair concern, but I don't want to prevent people using features that might be developed in the next three months. So long as people mention in their release thread what FSO version is required, that should be fine.
Awesome! I'd enter for judge, if only I was certain I had the time...
- no individual may win more than one major prize (i.e. the "Best Overall Model" and "Best Terran, Vasudan, Shivan model").
So do I understand it correctly that the Best Terran, Vasudan and Shivan Model will not be eligible for Best Overall Model? In that case, calling the prize 'best overall' seems a bit odd. Or is it the other way around, and does Best Overall go between the three category winners?
No, the way it'll work is pretty straightforward. Each ship will be judged by each judge and given a score. Those scores will be combined for a total score. The ship with the highest total score wins first prize. The individual species prizes will then go to the next highest scoring ship in each category (excluding any other entries by the overall winner). Technically, this means that a lower scoring shivan ship can win the fifty dollar prize even if there are three or four higher scoring Terran ships - the idea being to spread entries a bit more evenly across the three species, and encourage multiple entries in multiple species, even though individuals can only win once.
I might do something for this.
However, there's 2 things I think should be made clearer:
1. Perceptions of what make a ship Freespacey may vary. Heck, even when it comes to each species! A sort of "guideline" stating the judges vision on these points would be very useful and enlightening.
2. What about ship scales? I mean, if someone does a destroyer, it's assumed that he\she has put more time into the work, to achieve the same level of quality of someone who did a fighter. Might be worth considering this, and how it would be dealt with.
I'm hoping that individual ideas about "Freespaceness" will be balanced out by multiple judges with multiple views on the subject, plus I don't think we want to stifle anyone's creativity too much. It'll be up to the authors to make the best ship they can, in a style they think has the best chance of winning. We want to see what you create, rather than setting too strict a standard and getting x number of cookie cutter ships.
As for the destroyer/fighter split, well, this may be addressed in some way by the scoring system (which will be posted soon, once judges are finalized and it's been discussed), with model complexity or something being considered. Plus,uniqueness, originality and utility to FREDders and campaign designers will probably be factors - fighters mightn't score as highly here. But most likely it will again come down to individual preference - while fighters might seem easier, not everyone's best ship is a fighter. I doubt we'll see too many juggernauts, since, yeah, the amount of work involved is much higher. But I honestly think that some cruiser/corvette scale stuff is very likely.
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Double post, but just for the record - two judges (including myself) are finalized, one is pending. I'd like no fewer than 4 judges, so if you're interested, and wont be entering the contest, feel free to PM me and get involved.
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I'd like to know why this is called the HLP Modding Contest when your leaving a big chunk of the HLP community out of it. It's pretty much just for FS2 and modeling so why not name it something that reflects that. Also I see several bad things coming out of this. First and foremost is the already mentioned drama. Then you have the cash aspect that has the potential to pull modelers off of their projects and onto something new to try to win. This will slow down releases, cause arguments within projects when assets don't get finished. Last and probably most important is the whole thing is timed really badly. With Interplay just getting the rest of the rights to FS2 and cash involved for making assets to fit into their IP (and yes Terran, Vasudan, and Shivan derivatives no matter how original fall under their IP as does the .pof format itself) this could have unintended fallout from Interplay that I don't think anyone wants.
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I'd like to know why this is called the HLP Modding Contest when your leaving a big chunk of the HLP community out of it. It's pretty much just for FS2 and modeling so why not name it something that reflects that.
I have to admit that the current title also rubs me the wrong way.
Also I see several bad things coming out of this. First and foremost is the already mentioned drama.
Everything stirs up drama around here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=84333.msg1684470#msg1684470), although modding contests with cash prizes are likely especially prone to it.
Then you have the cash aspect that has the potential to pull modelers off of their projects and onto something new to try to win. This will slow down releases, cause arguments within projects when assets don't get finished.
I am a bit surprised about cash rewards, given discussions like this one (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=82928.0) on why modding teams shouldn't accept donations, even if they weren't prohibited from doing so.
Last and probably most important is the whole thing is timed really badly. With Interplay just getting the rest of the rights to FS2 and cash involved for making assets to fit into their IP (and yes Terran, Vasudan, and Shivan derivatives no matter how original fall under their IP as does the .pof format itself) this could have unintended fallout from Interplay that I don't think anyone wants.
Maybe a bit improbable but not far-fetched, especially since money is involved.
Instead of cash prizes, how about special badges that the winners get to keep for 6 months or a year or whatever? That'd avoid a lot of these issues.
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I'd like to know why this is called the HLP Modding Contest when your leaving a big chunk of the HLP community out of it. It's pretty much just for FS2 and modeling so why not name it something that reflects that.
The name was discussed on the first page of the thread. I admit it could have been named better, but I'm not keen to change it now that it's live, particularly not in case we want to have a 2014 Modding contest that might potentially cover a different aspect of modding.
This is one that people are just going to have to deal with for now I'm afraid.
I do, however, take umbrage with the idea that "a big chunk of the HLP community" are being left out. That is 100% not true. Literally the only requirement for entry is an un-banned HLP login to post the release thread. That's it. Beyond that it comes down to the skill of the entrant in producing a quality mod. Not one single person is excluded - Derek Smart could enter if he wanted to. I'm guessing that your argument that people are being "left out" comes down to either "It's a ship creation contest and not everyone knows how to make ships" or "It's a Freespace themed competition, and not everyone is here for Freespace".
Both of these statements are true, and both are completely irrelevant. This contest is about making ships for the FS universe. If people don't want to do that, then they don't have to enter. If they want to enter, then they have to fulfil the criteria of the contest. It's in much the same vein as the fact that you can't enter a dog into a cat show. If you want to enter the competition, then your entry has to meet the entry requirements. I really don't see why this is a problem for people.
Also I see several bad things coming out of this. First and foremost is the already mentioned drama. Then you have the cash aspect that has the potential to pull modelers off of their projects and onto something new to try to win. This will slow down releases, cause arguments within projects when assets don't get finished.
The risk of drama is a terrible reason to not do something, and I refuse to let the risk of people getting upset hamstring and paralyse the community from doing anything new. Look at the positive responses in here and tell me that this is something that people don't want. Like anything, there are people who are in favour and those who are afgainst, but the response has been primarily positive, and for that I'm happy. As for modders getting pulled off their projects, yes, this is theoretically a concern. Contestants will, I suppose, have to make those decision for themselves. But I would argue that, if successful, the contest will produce a large number of high quality models that will be useful to many projects, and that that will offset any potential losses regarding what people might have done instead of working on contest entries.
Last and probably most important is the whole thing is timed really badly. With Interplay just getting the rest of the rights to FS2 and cash involved for making assets to fit into their IP (and yes Terran, Vasudan, and Shivan derivatives no matter how original fall under their IP as does the .pof format itself) this could have unintended fallout from Interplay that I don't think anyone wants.
Could, but almost certainly wont. Interplay aren't some corporate hawk, fluttering away in the sky waiting for an opportunity to attack us. I'm confident that if they had any issue with the community, they would have expressed it before now. This is not the first time we've spent money on FS IP stuff, after all - consider the Vasudan model that was produced, or the FS themed cafepress store that was around for awhile.
JG18: A contest like this one is a different beast to donating to mod teams or paying for mods, which is what that thread was about. This is a competition. The person with the best models wins the prize - it's totally different to a commercial transaction, even if it doesn't initially seem that way. Contests are covered under different laws and regulations, if you want to get really legal and official about it, which we don't need to do.
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I'm guessing that your argument that people are being "left out" comes down to either "It's a ship creation contest and not everyone knows how to make ships" or "It's a Freespace themed competition, and not everyone is here for Freespace".
Both of these statements are true, and both are completely irrelevant. This contest is about making ships for the FS universe. If people don't want to do that, then they don't have to enter. If they want to enter, then they have to fulfil the criteria of the contest. It's in much the same vein as the fact that you can't enter a dog into a cat show.
But cat shows are not called "pet show", they're called "cat show". The point was that "modding" is too broad a term for what this contest actually covers.
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All I'm saying is Black Wolf has pretty comprehensibly laid the rules out. The hard question is, "what do I make?"
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Your best creation yet. :yes:
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as BW said, just because something has the potential to create drama does not mean that we shouldn't attempt it anyway. I believe the rules as laid out are adequate to the task of ensuring that it's going to go over fairly. I for one am excited to see what our modelling gods can come up with.
As for FUBAR's comment that this would exclude a huge part of the community: Well, it sucks, but what can you do? This contest is sure to produce at least a few models that will be useful outside of the FS context; allowing models tailored to the highly specific sensibilities of, say, Diaspora or WCS would be counterproductive.
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I for one am excited to see what our modelling gods can come up with.
I'm excited about what our modelling plebs can come up with
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allowing models tailored to the highly specific sensibilities of, say, Diaspora or WCS would be counterproductive.
Could you elaborate on that ? I'm curious as to where this reasoning comes from.
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Each of those franchises has a very distinct look and feel, models made for them or taken from them are instantly recognizable as such. A Battlestar will always be a Battlestar, if you will. Inserting them into other franchises always feels a bit wrong, as their designs do not line up with the established look of those other franchises.
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I don't remember such concerns prevented us to use the Custos in BP, or prevented Droid to use the Covenant Carrier or the B5 Starfury in DE, to quote a couple of many examples out there.
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I think you've made your point, Matth, don't you? Why don't we wait and see what people come up with instead of arguing about hypothetical?
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Well this contest isn't for me, I think its a really cool :yes: and hope more things like this will follow from HLP
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It's a nice initiative, all concerns presented before are valid but minor.
Kudos to the admins, and to you model riggers headz up!: getting models finished is no longer overrated! :D
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Imma charging meh wings 3D! Oh w8... im to lazy >_<
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This sounds really cool. :yes:
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I'm 100% behind the idea of the contest but i have one small point to raise.
If this contest is really about increasing the pool of available ships for mod creators, I think we need to state that a clear and fairly non-restrictive licence is a requirement. It's no good us giving the prize to a ship which we can't use next year because no one can contact the creator and ask permission.
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Hm...this *might* actually motivate me to get of my lazy ass and finish a few HTL models I have stashed.
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I'm 100% behind the idea of the contest but i have one small point to raise.
If this contest is really about increasing the pool of available ships for mod creators, I think we need to state that a clear and fairly non-restrictive licence is a requirement. It's no good us giving the prize to a ship which we can't use next year because no one can contact the creator and ask permission.
Hmm. This is a valid point. I had chucked in the "for community use" part into rule 4, but I can make an amendment to clarify it. I'm opposed to forcing everyone into one license, but some kind of statement about the author allowing the community to utilize them without direct permission being sought should be a requirement, I agree. [EDIT]And done.[/EDIT]
In other news, exciting developments for you junior modders out there! Stay tuned!
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New category added! See first post for details.
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Cool. I've never released a ship before, but I have linked up meshes I've done on the forums before. Would I be eligible for the newcomer prize
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I would interpret the rules as such that the model must be functional ingame. So if you want to enter those meshes you'll need to get through the process of converting it, giving weapons subsystems glows, ect.
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question:
as a newcomer, can i submit more than one ship? or would every ship after the first count as something else?
i'm asking because i'm working on a second model right now, which i think is better than my first one, and i wouldn't have released model nr. 1 before the second one had i known that something like this were the case
that's kind of a hypothetic question, but maybe someone else is asking himself the same thing
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Hmm. This is a valid point. I had chucked in the "for community use" part into rule 4, but I can make an amendment to clarify it. I'm opposed to forcing everyone into one license, but some kind of statement about the author allowing the community to utilize them without direct permission being sought should be a requirement, I agree. [EDIT]And done.[/EDIT]
Yeah, I wouldn't want to force a specific licence. I just want everyone to be able to use the ships from this contest. So it's up to the modder to pick one of the many licences which allows that.
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question:
as a newcomer, can i submit more than one ship? or would every ship after the first count as something else?
i'm asking because i'm working on a second model right now, which i think is better than my first one, and i wouldn't have released model nr. 1 before the second one had i known that something like this were the case
that's kind of a hypothetic question, but maybe someone else is asking himself the same thing
Given that your ship was posted only a day or two before the announcement of the newcomer prize, I think we can be a little bit flexible and allow one more ship in that category. But for the majority, it should be limited to one model.
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Judges and a basic breakdown of how the scoring will work posted. Please keep in mind that we did work pretty hard to get the scoring right, and that the descriptions don't cover every criteria that may or may not be used. Significant parts of the judging will be subjective.
The model and texture will account for half the score, the rest coming from other features. Specific details on the mechanisms of judging (e.g. points being lost from 100 vs gained from 0, or the weighting within categories) will be up to individual judges, so don't ask for specific answers for those kinds of questions - we don't have them. :)
This will probably be the last major announcement unless someone else comes forward like The Dagger did to fund another category (or we hit the targets for the "People's Choice" categories. From here on out, it's up to you guys - Good luck! :D
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Here's a question: the rules only mention about releasing a ship before the deadline. But what about WiP threads? Can\should we post them? Can we involve the community to participate, give input, etc?
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My vote is a definite yes. WIP threads give us something to look at and encourage other people to work on their ships.
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Yep, WiP threads are encouraged. :nod:
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not only that but WiP threads give the community a chance to suggest things you hadn't thought of and sometimes that input can make a huge difference on the quality of the outcome
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A question. What outside resources, exactly, can a modeler use in a valid contest entry? Say, Oddgrim's Vasudan pilot model, or bits of textures from a species' already-extant models incorporated into one's own normal maps?
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I really vouch for that possibility, since everyone already knows where the Zod comes from there's never the idea of "plagiarism" or something of the sort, but rather the surplus of a nice implementation.
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I would probably say something like "if you use an asset from an outside source, cite that in your release". But I'll leave the final word to BW.
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Importing cockpits has a well established community precedent, so I'm a-OK with that - why reinvent the wheel after all? As far as importing other bits of texture, that's... trickier, and we may have to fall back on the "case-by-case" situation, as unfortunate as that is.
Certainly, I've used pieces of other people's textures (see the Abydos for a fairly shameless rip of pieces fo the Karnak) and I know a lot of other people have to - it's a great way to add detail and help a model fit into an already established species "look". But in this case, given that we're judging people on the quality of their texture, it becomes a bit iffy, especially if it's from a non Volition ship.
If I were forced to make some kind of definitive statement, I would say that a few details from other ships are fine, as long as they're credited (particularly if they're easily identifiable - you don't have to worry too much about a few pixels if you're grabbing them for the colour palette or something), more liberal sampling is acceptable from canon ships, but excessive sampling will lose you points at least in the technical side of the texture grade.
Basically, be reasonable about it and you'll be fine.
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Question RE: rule 5, "Ships must be original - i.e. HTLs of Volition ships are not acceptable."
Would a ship that was based on a Volition ship be acceptable? Say... a fighter that shares some similarities with a Perseus but also with significant changes?
Well, we'd assess it on a case by case basis, but the way you're describing it sounds like it would probably be OK.
The purpose of the contest is to promote the creation of new, high quality ships (particularly in the Vasudan and Shivan fleet) for campaigns to make use of. HTLs of [V] ships are disallowed because, while cool and often to a really high standard of quality, they don't advance that goal; the total pool of ships available to modders to use in campaigns doesn't increase. What you're describing sounds like it would be different enough to the Perseus that it would represent an increase to the total pool, and so would be a valid entry.
So just to confirm, if someone were to make a next generation ship of an existing ship it would be valid correct? Assuming it was distinct enough visually. Ie, as an analogy, if the Hercules Mk2 was a contest entry, it would be valid because despite being based on the FS1 Hercules, it is its own model? (Pretend for a second that the Herc Mk2 doesn't exist and is instead a fan ship).
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Question RE: rule 5, "Ships must be original - i.e. HTLs of Volition ships are not acceptable."
Would a ship that was based on a Volition ship be acceptable? Say... a fighter that shares some similarities with a Perseus but also with significant changes?
Well, we'd assess it on a case by case basis, but the way you're describing it sounds like it would probably be OK.
The purpose of the contest is to promote the creation of new, high quality ships (particularly in the Vasudan and Shivan fleet) for campaigns to make use of. HTLs of [V] ships are disallowed because, while cool and often to a really high standard of quality, they don't advance that goal; the total pool of ships available to modders to use in campaigns doesn't increase. What you're describing sounds like it would be different enough to the Perseus that it would represent an increase to the total pool, and so would be a valid entry.
So just to confirm, if someone were to make a next generation ship of an existing ship it would be valid correct? Assuming it was distinct enough visually. Ie, as an analogy, if the Hercules Mk2 was a contest entry, it would be valid because despite being based on the FS1 Hercules, it is its own model? (Pretend for a second that the Herc Mk2 doesn't exist and is instead a fan ship).
Yes, in that scenario, the Herc Mk Ii would be fine.
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Now that it's been over a month since the competition opened, we've had time to observe the consequences of this community endeavor.
It's been a huge success. Many newcomers have picked up modeling for this project. Many veterans have been coming up with new and interesting designs and not just Terrans! I don't have any numbers to back me up, but there seems to have been a lot more ship threads now than months before, and new ship threads are created frequently. And all of these are released freely to the community.
Congrats to Black Wolf and everyone else involved (including judges and ship creators as well as the rest of the community) for making this work.
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Yep, I've been really happy with the response so far - if everyone who's posted a WiP or about their intent to enter actually does get a completed ship in time, it'll be a huge numerical boost for us, plus some of the concepts have been really cool and original - it's going to be tough judging!
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With 5 confirmed entires, we're now halfway to activating the People's Choice category, and less than half way through the submission period. Looking good so far. :)
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So we are officially into September now, which means there's less than a month to get your entries in. While a few people have posted WiPs or told me that they intend to enter, so far entries have been a little lighter on the ground than I would have liked. And, given the makeup of the authors of those entries, at this point there are more prizes than there are entrants, which means, if nobody else enters, certain categories will inevitably go prizeless. In other words, if you were on the fence about entering, re-consider your odds! You might have a better chance of a win than you think, if you pick your category cleverly.
Anywya, hopefully we'll see some additional entries (and entrants) before the end of the month. Show us what you've got, guys!
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Less than two weeks left! I'd like to suggest an addendum for future competitions:
If the number of participants is less than a certain number, then the number of prizes will decrease based on an arbitrary limit.
For example, suppose there are 6 prizes and the arbitrary limit the judges decide is 10:
If there are 10+ entries, the prizes will remain six.
If there are 9-6 entries, the prizes will be five (People's Choice gets dropped).
If there are 4-5 entries, the prizes will be two (Best Terran, Vasudan, Shivan model gets dropped).
If there are 3 entries, Best Newcomer gets dropped.
If there are less than 3 entries, the competition will be canceled or be delayed.
The numbers and prize restrictions I thought of can be changed based on your discretion, but I think that it would be more competitive if there are fewer prizes than there are people.
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The biggest issue here is timeframe. 3 months or so isn't that long. It's nowhere near enough for even a small capital ship unless you're Oddgrim. Some of us had big models already in progress, and those three months just weren't long enough for us to finish them. Me with the Erebus/Raynor and Esarai with the Horizon are examples here. Hell, for Hades, it's not enough time for anything.
An extension is pretty unfair to those who actually made the deadline, I know, but push the deadline to, say, December, and you'll probably see more entries. Honestly, making this a yearly or 6-month thing might not be a bad idea, but 3 months isn't enough time.
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The biggest issue here is timeframe. 3 months or so isn't that long. It's nowhere near enough for even a small capital ship unless you're Oddgrim. Some of us had big models already in progress, and those three months just weren't long enough for us to finish them. Me with the Erebus/Raynor and Esarai with the Horizon are examples here. Hell, for Hades, it's not enough time for anything.
An extension is pretty unfair to those who actually made the deadline, I know, but push the deadline to, say, December, and you'll probably see more entries. Honestly, making this a yearly or 6-month thing might not be a bad idea, but 3 months isn't enough time.
Suppose a fair point is being raised here right at the end, and looking so far on the submitted "finished" models gives merit to issue raised.
Personally I would not mind at all if the deadline was extended to potentially allow more submissions.
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I agree with the points raised by Aesaar, but giving three months plus won't give much improvement (unless there's lots of people with half finished models around). I stoped development of my model for the contest given that I would have to use most of my three months for it and people really weren't liking it much, so I prefered to work in other stuff.
I guess that the best thing would be to wrap this one up and learn the lesson for the next time: we need more time next time.
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a bit more time wouldn't hurt next time, agreed, i suggest something like 4 months, maybe even 5, but honestly, if you can't get a single ship done in 4 months, you probably wont be able to complete it in 5 or 6 either
also, i suggest a tighter focus of categories should this be repeated
something like: create a shivan craft! with only 1 category to start with, and should there be more entries than hoped for, just seperate the category into fighters/capitals etc.
2 cents
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Lol fightermedic, I agree more time would have been nice, but in regards to your end statement, you are wrong on so many levels it hurts to think about it.
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depends on what you want to do
if you want a contest where everybody simply releases stuff they have been working on anyway, the way it has been done this time is the better one
(just to clarify: i don't think this is necessarily a bad thing)
but this might lead to a situation like we have at the moment, with not much of a competition going on due to the way the models are distributed across the categories
if you actually want to fill gaps in the general list of ships for certain species, my suggestion might work better
with the risk of even fewer people applying since nobody is interested in creating this kind of ships, i'm well aware of that
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He means the pre-edit one, about not being able to complete something in 6 months if you couldn't complete it in 4.
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I think tighter categories would be a good thing. Maybe a competition to create a terran civilian ship, or something. It would make for a more interesting competition.
Also, is there an approved license or something that we're supposed to ship with our ships?
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Just go for a creative commons licence if you aren't sure.
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that information is somewhere in the OP
in a nutshell: people must be allowed to use your ship freely in campaigns
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The creative commons license looks pretty good.
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i think i will create a small example mission with all the ships of the contest included once the deadline ends
nothing fancy, just a little 1-mission mini story to shoot some shivans, have some fun with the models and show people what has been done in this 3 month ;)
edit: i have in fact just started setting it all up
already 300 MB worth of data, and that's not even all the models yet, this is goingt to be one big example mission *scratch head*
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I think tighter categories would be a good thing. Maybe a competition to create a terran civilian ship, or something. It would make for a more interesting competition.
one more thought following this:
why not have, let's say 5, competitions done this way, stretched over a long time and with thight focus, even if some end up having only 2 or 3 entries, rather than one big competition
advantages:
- we get the ships we really lack (the community could vote on what the next competition should be about)
- the competition as a whole is stretched over a longer time while the unique segments can be of a lenght that fits the model needed, fighters get 2 months, a destroyer 8, or something
- there should be some real competition going on
- you can still have some "best overal model of the last 5 competitions" prize if you want
just more 2 cents from me, and only relevant IF there is ever going to be another competition
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There can always be another competition, but the big question is, what are people going to compete for? Cash? Good luck with regular funding for those contests.
I think periodic contests would be very awesome, and the concept fightermedic came up with I really like, but regarding this particular contest, I think 3 months might not be enough. Not all people have holidays. Moving deadline to December would make this a more of a "2013" contest. Sites like deviantart can afford only a few weeks/months contests, but deviantart is deviantart. It's massive[and we have bigger number of prizes than DA usually has I think].
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Last minute entry! The GTI Castalia.
(http://cdn1.share.slickpic.com/u/TwistedInfinitiesVA/CastaliaRepairYard/org/Castalia_WIP4/web.jpg)
Download in current state (http://www.mediafire.com/download/4644ebzmbxe8fxj/Castalia_Repair_Yard1.zip)
It's a large repair/refit shipyard with a variety of facilities. There are what will be moving gantries with large robotic arms tending to various tasks, destroyable gas processing facilities and as you can see up the back, a moving 'whole ship scanning' facility - essentially an idea pinched from the star trek baryon sweep. :p
There's a huge hangar with large sliding doors (which will be triggerable via SEXP or automatically on ship landing or takeoff from the hangar) that can fit an argo and a number of smaller freighters/transports, and 3 main shipyard areas. The one on the far right with a hippocrates in it is intended to be a heavy welding station, with 4 moving robotic arms performing hull patch-ups or other modifications.
Obviously though, it's not finished. :(
My time management sucks, and so I spent way too long in the modelling and UVing stages, so in it's current state it IS fully UV mapped onto a single 4096x2048 texture and I've made an AO map with a base coat hull plating texture, but that's all. I was really hoping to have a finished station to submit, so pretty bummed about that. This station also makes heavy use of Bobboau's look_at feature in the form of hydraulic rams on the moving parts, but I recently discovered that feature was broken earlier this year (my own fault too :( ) so those won't work just yet either.
Anyway it's currently 5am and I'm exhausted. Can't think of what else I meant to say here other than I know it's likely to be decimated in points due to the incompleteness, but I do still want to enter it as is anyway due to the massive amount of work I've put into it over the past couple of months. :p
Oh and more pics:
(http://cdn1.share.slickpic.com/u/TwistedInfinitiesVA/CastaliaRepairYard/org/Castalia_WIP5/web.jpg)
(http://cdn1.share.slickpic.com/u/TwistedInfinitiesVA/CastaliaRepairYard/org/Castalia_WIP6/web.jpg)
(http://cdn1.share.slickpic.com/u/TwistedInfinitiesVA/CastaliaRepairYard/org/Castalia_WIP7/web.jpg)
Sleep time...
Edit: Oh yeah, license statement: Errm, free for any non commercial use, but if you do end up using it, a credit in the read me would be nice. If I've forgotten something important there, it's just whatever the bog standard license is around these parts. :)
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somehow, i knew there would be one or two last minute entries not shown before ;)
great work VA!
it's already very sexy with only such a basic texture, can't wait to see it in it's full glory
man, all these last minute entries are srsly interfering with my model-show-off-mission plans...
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somehow, i knew there would be one or two last minute entries not shown before ;)
great work VA!
it's already very sexy with only such a basic texture, can't wait to see it in it's full glory
man, all these last minute entries are srsly interfering with my model-show-off-mission plans...
If that monster capital ship and this installation get in, maybe it'll be up to the little ones to take the big ones down. :)
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And that's the deadline. Welcome to October people.
However, in light of the activity in the last two weeks, and the somewhat underwhelming total number of entries, I'm declaring an arbitrary two week extension for all released or announced WiPs. The fact is that this contest was designed to stimulate the creation of high quality models, and it has done so, to some extent. People like Esarai have worked hard, made great models, but were stymied by technical difficulties at the last hurdle. That hard work should be recognized.
Hence the extension. In order to be eligible, you must have made substantial progress on a WiP within the contest period, demonstrated by the release or showing of a WiP. If you haven't shown one yet, get in touch with me either by PM or by posting a WiP within the next 24 hours. That I will have to be strict on - a line has to be drawn somewhere. There's no need to get in touch if you've already released or shown something. If you've released a WiP, we will judge you based on your later release (I.e. In the extension period).
So in summary - if you've started but not finished, make it known and your new deadline is midnight of the 14th. Results will be released on the 28th.
I realize I can probably expect some blowback for this. But I hope people recognize that the intent is to reward the people who've put in the effort to make great new models for all of us to use. I think that that deserves another two weeks.
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There can always be another competition, but the big question is, what are people going to compete for? Cash? Good luck with regular funding for those contests.
Compete for fame! We have a wonderful modelling community with talented modellers, let's see who's the best! Frankly I'd rather have a medal icon on my signature than 100$ I can earn in different ways with less effort than dozens of hours spent in modelling and texturing. I'm not blaming the people who put their money for founding this competition. Actually I appreciate their commitment and service to our community, especially in a period of economic crisis in which not all of us can rely on a steady job. But maybe there are better ways to use them. E.g. funding server's maintenance or the development of those animated PNG format...
I think the competition might have been much tougher (I mean we would have seen a higher number of submissions) if the prize had been 1000$! But this would be both impractical and unnatural for people that live this community as a hobby, like the vast majority of us I suppose. This is just my opinion anyway (but if there's someone who wants to throw 1000$ on this I'll build even an entire fleet for him!!! :p)
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Thank you VERY much. I could really use the extra time to patch up my submission.
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*ponder* from a strict point of view, wouldn't that allow me to enter my whole set of recently created and almost finished fighters too, since i'm definitely going to finish them all in the next two weeks,
or would that just be mean on the judges *evil grin*
oh, and you have put lepanto's ship into the wrong category, it should be newcomer
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OK, we're well past the 24 hour deadline, and I've received no new PM submissions, so only the so-far-announced WiPs will be permitted entry. If you were holding out or missed the deadline, I'm sorry, but better luck next time. I believe that this means we can expect updates from Oddgrim, Esarai, Lepanto and VA (plus, of course, Bobbtmann's late submission has already been included). As soon as we get the final submissions from those four (or on the 14th, whichever comes first) we will begin the final round of judging and have our winners pretty soon after that.
That said, it does make the final makeup... interesting, and a little disappointing if I'm 100% honest. Fightermedic wins Shivan by default, and Oddgrim win Vasudans by default, unless either of them win in another category (Newcomer in fightermedic's case or overall for either of them), in which case nobody will win those categories. Other than for the overall victor, the only real challenges will be in Terran and Newcomer categories. Lesson for future contests then - fracturing the prizes too much is a bad idea when there aren't enough potential entrants.
Anyway, that aside, we have gotten some very cool models out of the process, and that was the main objective. Good luck to those who're still submitting and those who already have, and thanks for taking part.
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We're now well into the final 24 hours - the contest will close at midnight tonight, GMT. No extensions I'm afraid. So, for those still finishing up, please do so post haste, or release whatever you've managed to do in the last two weeks within the next 22.5 hours. It would be a real shame to see all the extra work be for naught because of a deadline missed by a few hours.
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I can understand your disappointments BLACKwolf, just don't feel responsible. I think a single category bi-monthly contest could be considered? In any case there have been some outstanding entrants to this one and the judges, I do not envy. :yes:
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Well, turns out 2 weeks goes by really fast. :\
Only really managed to get about 2/3rds of the texture done, and clean the mesh up.
Not much I can do about that now though. Here's the latest version:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/1hoaqkkg1gf1br6/Castalia_Repair_Yard2.zip
I'll continue to work on this over the next month or so to finish it off and get a proper, fully functional release out the door.
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Well, turns out 2 weeks goes by really fast. :\
Only really managed to get about 2/3rds of the texture done, and clean the mesh up.
Not much I can do about that now though. Here's the latest version:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/1hoaqkkg1gf1br6/Castalia_Repair_Yard2.zip
I'll continue to work on this over the next month or so to finish it off and get a proper, fully functional release out the door.
Even halfdone, its an excellent submission VA! c:
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While there could've been more competition in the Vasudan and Shivan categories (or at least in the Shivan :)), still, 12 entries ain't bad. We've got some neat and original models, like the Mahal, Iapetus, and fightermedic's Shivan ships. May the best models win! :D
I agree with the idea of giving future contests specific themes, though.
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Ok! Contest is officially closed, but all of the extended entrants managed to get something in, and even though many were unfinished, I think they're much closer and more competitive than they might otherwise have been.
Next step is the judging. I'm going to PM the various judges today to confirm nobody is sick or on holiday or anything, but assuming things are pretty standard, I think two weeks is more than enough time to assign some scores to a dozen ships. As such, I'm anticipating results will be finalized before the end of the month. I will confirm the actual date later today, once I've spoken to the other judges.
Finally, thanks to everyone who entered - ultimately, as groan inducingly cliche as it is, the real winners here are the campaign makers and FREDders of the community as a whole.We have a dozen new ships, including in some categories where modern, high quality ships are distinctly lacking. And that's good news for the entire FS modding community.
I'd also like to make special mention of those who learnt FS modding to enter the contest. I hope that this has been a positive experience for you guys, and that you'll go on practicing and perfecting the skills you've learned, making more and better mods for the rest of us to enjoy. Good luck with your ridiculously addictive new hobby! :D
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no cliche here, motivating people to create new ships is what this was all about
btw: i count 13 entries, the beelzeboul and imp are not meant to be one ship, they just happen to share the same download link ;)
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I've got my contest mod folder all setup...
(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/mjnmixael/Private/ImageBin_zpsc85a3eda.jpg)
Let the judging begin.... muahahaha
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Welp, guess I'm out :c
22:20:53: <MjnMixael|AWAY> i most do more judging tonight
22:20:55: <MjnMixael|AWAY> DUN DUN DUN
22:21:08: <MjnMixael|AWAY> oddgrim gets zero points
However I call anti oddgrim bias-shenanigans-tomfoolery-hoppycock on this! Very suspicious!
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<coerective>Poppycock</corrective> :nervous:
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22:21:08: <MjnMixael|AWAY> oddgrim gets zero points
Let's make that clear:
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I've got my contest mod folder all setup...
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk264/mjnmixael/Private/ImageBin_zpsc85a3eda.jpg
Let the judging begin.... muahahaha
I'll see your Colosseum and raise you a CHALLENGE!!!
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2vcyuqa.jpg)
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And what kind of challenge might that be? ;)
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Black wolf gets ONE MILLION internets for the homestarrunner reference. ONE MILLION.
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I don't get it.
I think the thread just went full retard. Never go full retard.
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Nah, it must be some VERY old **** we don't know about :p
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open launcher 5.5? what is this, 2007?
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open launcher 5.5? what is this, 2007?
Actually...
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/haymansbeard/RrFkGaI8atI/AAAAAAAAAJI/NUu4EF66oy8/s512/King+Leonidas+Large.JPG)
THIS! IS! ME BEING LAZY AND NOT UPGRADING!
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It's not even 5.5g...
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Well folks, I just submitted my scores. [shame face] To be honest, I was not expecting to be part of the panel. I am no model/ ship forging guru. [/shame face]
Regardless, I hope you find my scores to be fair and welcome any participant wishing know why they lost points here or there to shoot me a PM. I hope my contribution came from the user/noob friendly aspects of the competition, as bugs and completion is where I will be able to provide the most useful feedback.
Congratulations and a whole-hearted thank you to everyone who participated, I eagerly await to see all the entries in campaigns coming soon. :yes:
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Nothing to be shamefaced about FIZ - you're the first one to get their results to me, and I think it's important to have a range of experience levels judging competitions like this. Ships aren't just made for other modders - it's good to get the opinion of a player as well.
Today was two weeks, but I'm waiting on the rest of the scores. But, as promised, the final results will not be delayed beyond the end of the month, scores available or not. So hopefully mjn and Admiral MS will get their scores in in the next three days, otherwise it'll have to be based on a smaller panel of judges. Regardless, the scores will be finalized bby the 31st and posted on the 1st of November. So watch this space!
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My scores are in as well.
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Well, with three out of four judges submissions in, less than 20 points separate the top 8 models! The contest has turned out far closer than I expected and I'm really excited to see Admiral MS' scores and see who's won!
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Scores are in - I'm just waiting on one final set of comments, but I now know who has won the overall prize as well as the individual categories. Results will be released on the 1st of November as planned. :D
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To the judges: Thanks for putting in a lot of time and effort for this contest. :)
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i second that
execpt for in the case of Black Wolf, who is an evil person for delaying the results :D
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Screw judges, thanks to the asset creators!! ;)
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Screw judges, thanks to the asset creators!! ;)
I can get behind that. :P