Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Campaign Restoration Project => Topic started by: Mongoose on August 30, 2022, 01:23:17 am
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One downside to how Knossos manages mod packages is that users may wind up with multiple versions of common packages such as the MediaVPs and FSPort installed at the same time. Given the ever-increasing file sizes of some of these packages, this can essentially lead to many gigabytes' worth of duplicated data across separate versions, and a user may need to have a particular older version of them installed just for the sake of one or two campaigns that haven't been updated since being added to Knossos. In addition, users won't be able to apply the updated models, textures, and effects added to newer MediaVP versions to these older campaigns. Per discussion on Discord, it may be that some of these older campaigns would run just fine on the newest version of these common packages, or at the very least require some simple (and hopefully one-time) table updates. Mjn.mixael made the suggestion of forcing these mods to the most recent MediaVPs, and then using the F3 ship lab to see if any models triggered errors, since that would catch some of the most common and easily-fixable issues. Obviously some more complex mods would require more technical expertise, but at least this would be a start, and hopefully upgrading these mods would eliminate the need to keep one or two of the oldest common mod versions installed and save everybody some drive space.
So here's what I'm proposing: for those of us who have some of these older campaigns installed and don't mind tinkering a bit, force one of them to use the most recent MediaVPs/FSPort versions (by editing the dependencies in the mod.json file, unless you feel like creating your own separate mod entry in Knossos). See if it will still run, then check the F3 lab and see what models trip up FSO. We can use this thread to keep track of what breaks where, and hopefully find some fixes for them. I'll edit links to posts about specific mods into the OP in an attempt to keep things organized.
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Since a couple of people have asked: The upcoming Blue Planet update will switch the mod to the latest MVP version.
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Did they fix the issue that Knossos requires exact matches for the package names?
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Did they fix the issue that Knossos requires exact matches for the package names?
How exactly does that issue arise, and how in the world would allowing anything else work?
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To be clear, this thread has nothing to do with making any changes to Knossos itself. It's intended to see what campaign dependencies can be tweaked to hopefully eliminate the need to have very old versions of the MediaVPs installed.
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Did they fix the issue that Knossos requires exact matches for the package names?
How exactly does that issue arise, and how in the world would allowing anything else work?
The issue cropped up around MVP 4.4.0+ I think and was related to the split of MV_Advanced.vp into two MV_Advanced1 and MV_Advanced2, if a mod has that one in their dependencies just moving the MVP version forward would give you an error "X requires FSO MediaVPs but they are not installed" as there is no package by that exact name anymore.
Now, MV_Advanced shouldn't be in required list - but that doesn't mean someone didn't include it for aesthetic reasons (as it contains the weapon effects).
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I've had a chance to have a look at some simpler campaigns, focusing on ones that a) don't use the fsport and b) aren't full conversions like Solaris etc. A simple check, editing the json to point to 4.6.6 and checking all the ships for errors in the f3 room, turns up the following:
The Scrolls of Atenkharzim have a crash and some old assets, but Goober tells me there's already an updated version in the works.
Sync works fine.
Transcend works fine.
Ridiculous has two shivan ships (DRAGON#HUMAN and MANTICORE#HUMAN) that use old assets. This seems like it should be easy to fix.
I'll keep rolling through these, but knossos keeps forgetting where fs2 is and uninstalling everything so I might keep going in small batches.
EDIT
All is Fair in Love and War works fine.
Allied Forces is 80% new names for existing craft, most of which refer to old models. This seems time consuming, but not difficult, to fix. There are some palette-swap versions that wouldn't be easy.
The Ancient-Shivan war works fine.
Some of these have mod.json entries that seem to suggest they'd be fine with anything above a certain version, but Knossos still insists on installing whatever the base version is.
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I checked the Antagonist, and it works fine.
The Apocalypse Vega works fine but has a missing texture on GTI Bretonnia.
EDIT - Dusk wars 2 has an error before changing anything, so I'm not sure how long it's been broken.
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Thanks for jumping in on this! I'll try to take a look at a couple myself this weekend.
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I've installed all the fs2-only campaigns up to 'D', and my FS2 folder is now 140gb lol
A runthrough of the B ones shouldn't take long.
Boomerang works fine.
Breakthrough, in the mod list as 'capship command thing', works ok but uses old models for the BLU PERSEPHONE, BLU FENRIS, BLU AEOLUS and BLU RAVANA. These have missing textures. The EURENOME has some missing textures
Burning Heaven works fine, and has a working GTI Bretonnia and Eurenome with textures that work.
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Knossos still insists on installing whatever the base version is.
That's because Knossos pulls the list what MVP version to install with which mod from a manifest file it downloads each time on boot up (or a after a period of time now).
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Yeah the idea here is to find out which ones seem to work fine without a specific version. So far, I've only run into a few technical problems or areas that could be improved. Most of them work fine on 4.6.6 and I assume that they'd continue to work on current mvps into the future.
120gb of redundant mvps may not be required, which is nice.
Depending on how long the enthusiasm holds out, I'll talk to Goob about fsport mods and how best to handle the current fsport version + the highest mvps that fsport uses in combination. Fsport-including mods might have more problems, but we'll see.
Cleaning Crew works fine with 4.6.6.
Crossing the Styx needed to have the references to the particular mvp packages removed to work, but it's fine afterward.
As a bonus these old mods get the new Argo now.
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To be clear, this thread has nothing to do with making any changes to Knossos itself. It's intended to see what campaign dependencies can be tweaked to hopefully eliminate the need to have very old versions of the MediaVPs installed.
yes, sorry, I certainly don't want to divert this thread from that.
To save you all from the effort of combing through every mod on knossos, I took a stab at generating what should be a comprehensive list of every mod whose current version requires a non-current MVPs. Anything with a >= requirement, or a ~4.6.whatever requirement, has been omitted, but I might go back and see how many that excludes as an old version with permissive versioning could still need some care.
I should be able to do this with old engine versions too if anyone wants to tackle that can of worms.
mod ID, mod name, mod last version, mod last update, mod MVPs requirement version
mlteset,Multi-lock Missile Testing,0.1.0,2020-05-21,
TAVega,The Apocalypse: Vega,1.0.2,2021-06-21,3.6.10
DOSFull,Dawn Of Sol,1.0.0,2020-05-19,3.6.10
AWF,Allied Forces,1.0.1,2021-10-03,3.6.12
OGwod,Wings of Dawn Original,1.0.0,2020-12-21,3.6.12
DWA2,Dusk Wars Act 2,1.0.0-B,2020-01-05,3.6.12
DWA1,Dusk Wars Act 1,2.0.0-C,2020-01-05,3.6.12
shumpspace,SHMUPSpace: Battle of Deneb,1.2.1,2019-10-20,3.6.12
Transcend,Transcend,1.0.3,2022-04-07,3.7.2
Inferno,Inferno,1.0.5,2021-12-27,3.7.2
BPBattleCaptainsGTVA,Blue Planet 2: The Battle Captains - GTVA,1.0.7,2021-02-13,3.7.2
VOTC_Serkr,VOTC (Serkr),1.0.16,2020-10-30,3.7.2
denebiii,Deneb III,1.2.5,2019-11-24,3.7.2
ExileITDW,Exile: Into the Dark Waters,1.0.5,2019-02-05,3.7.2
Antagonist,The Antagonist,1.0.1,2018-09-18,3.7.2
BolithoCommand,Bolitho Command,1.0.0,2018-09-08,3.7.2
Sync,Sync,2.0.0,2018-08-16,3.7.2
BemCavalgar,Bem Cavalgar,1.0.0,2018-08-16,3.7.2
AftermathCE,Aftermath (CE),1.0.1,2018-08-16,3.7.2
BurningHeaven,Burning Heaven,1.1.5,2021-09-26,3.8.1
DE,Dimensional Eclipse,1.2.9-0,2019-01-11,3.8.1
Ridiculous,Ridiculous,2.0.5-0,2018-09-03,3.8.1
VM,VeniceMirror,1.4.2-Nova,2021-03-19,3.8.2
RR,Renegade Resurgence,1.1.3-Nova,2021-03-19,3.8.2
A_Walk_in_the_Sun,A Walk in the Sun,1.0.3-Nova,2021-03-19,3.8.2
SG,Shadow Genesis,2020.1.0,2021-01-01,3.8.2
capshipcommandthing,Break Through,1.0.0,2020-08-10,3.8.2
LastStand,The Last Stand,0.2.203,2019-09-29,3.8.2
ItHoV,Into the Halls of Valhalla,1.2.7-Nova,2020-05-17,4.0.0
gizeh,Das Gizeh-Projekt,4.1.0,2020-02-25,4.1.23
happynewyear,happynewyear,1.0.3,2022-01-02,4.3.0
INCRSN,Incursion & Return to Sol,1.0.1,2020-08-03,4.3.1
GTCR,Great Tin Can Run,1.0.1,2020-08-02,4.3.1
DESP,Desperation,1.0.1,2020-08-02,4.3.1
CCREW,Cleaining Crew,1.0.1,2020-08-02,4.3.1
AncientShivanWar,Ancient-Shivan War,2.1.1,2020-08-02,4.3.1
Mantle,Mantle,1.2.3,2021-01-04,4.3.3
FriendsandFoes,Friends and Foes: Retribution,1.1.3,2020-12-26,4.3.3
jad2_22,Just Another Day 2.22,2.22.9,2020-10-25,4.3.3
Stress_Test_Multi_With_Silly_mission,Cyborg's Silly Multiplayer Stress Test,1.0.0,2020-10-17,4.3.3
shv,Trimurti,1.2.2,2020-09-08,4.3.3
CtS,Crossing the Styx,1.0.6,2020-08-25,4.3.3
ghost_revenants,Ghost Revenants,1.1.1,2020-08-15,4.3.3
LCW,Luyten Civil War,1.1.5-Nova,2020-08-07,4.3.3
jad2_21,Just Another Day 2.21,2.21.15,2022-01-20,4.4.0
scroll,The Scroll of Atankharzim,1.8.9,2021-12-24,4.4.0
cardinalspear,Cardinal Spear,1.2.4,2021-11-25,4.4.0
awakenings,Awakenings,1.1.2,2021-11-25,4.4.0
brshivans,Shivans,1.2.3,2021-08-16,4.4.0
destinyofpeace,The Destiny of Peace,1.2.0,2021-08-11,4.4.0
system_madness,System Madness,1.3.0,2021-04-10,4.4.0
ross128,Ross 128,2.1.2,2021-02-28,4.4.0
vassagos_dirge,Vassago's Dirge,1.3.2,2021-02-02,4.4.0
jad223,Just Another Day 2.23,2.23.6,2021-02-02,4.4.0
rogues,Rogues!,1.0.4-Nova,2021-03-21,4.4.1
destinyofpeace_translation,The Destiny of Peace - French Translation,1.0.2,2022-05-22,4.4.2
MoGW-omni,Memories of the Great War - Omnibus,1.1.1,2022-01-12,4.4.2
qaz_1,Shader Tests,0.2.0,2021-09-12,4.4.2
STL,Shrouding the Light,2.5.1,2021-08-24,4.4.2
Tango,Tango,1.0.0,2021-08-12,4.4.2
frontlines,Frontlines 2334,1.5.0,2021-08-12,4.4.2
Eagle_Takes_Flight,Eagle Takes Flight,1.0.0,2021-08-12,4.4.2
CP_M_FS1,Cockpit Mod for FS1,1.0.2,2021-08-07,4.4.2
4K_HUD,4k HUD,1.0.2,2021-07-30,4.4.2
CP_m,Cockpit Mod,2.1.2,2021-07-29,4.4.2
Windmills,Windmills,2.1.0,2021-07-14,4.4.2
SR_Cockpits,Series Resurrecta with Cockpits,1.5.0,2021-10-04,4.5.0
AFLW,All is Fair in Love and War,1.0.0,2021-10-02,4.5.0
boomerang,Boomerang,2.1.0,2021-09-27,4.5.0
Warmachine,Warmachine,2.3.0,2022-08-08,4.5.1
blueplanetcomplete,Blue Planet Complete,3.0.9,2022-07-31,4.5.1
BpMultiHudLight,BP Multi HudLight,1.0.0,2022-07-31,4.5.1
BP_HudLight,BP HudLight,1.0.1,2022-07-31,4.5.1
wmm,WM Multiplayer (Alpha),0.9.0,2022-07-30,4.5.1
StormFront_AGW,What If - Another Great War,22.0.0,2022-06-15,4.5.1
stormfront1,Storm Front Episode I & II,22.0.0,2022-06-15,4.5.1
Tev_translation,The Battle of Neptune - French translation,1.0.0,2022-05-21,4.5.1
jds_blueplanet,Jaded's Blueplanet,1.3.1,2022-05-19,4.5.1
blueplanet_translation,Blue Planet - French Translation,1.0.3,2022-05-19,4.5.1
Lightning_Marshal,The Lightning Marshal,1.0.41,2022-05-13,4.5.1
UW,The Unification War Project,2.0.1,2022-03-03,4.5.1
mdredux,FreeSpace Mission Disk: Redux,1.0.2-Nova,2022-01-08,4.5.1
Sorry for the rough formatting, but if you paste that in a spreadsheet program it'll probably be able to make it a little prettier. Sorted by version required, as that seems like it's the ones that will need the most work.
If anything on this list seems out of whack let me know and I'll take another swing at it.
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Not too long ago I was able to play CE: Aftermath on FSO 22.2 with MVPs 4.6.6. Which is odd because up until just recently for me it did require MVPs 3.7.2 (aka 2014 MVPs) for it to be playable.
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I have put the csv above into Google Sheets (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14Mz1yoagvlpMMO9rTs1Ps_LomhHNp7n3ruDsaLilz_s/edit?usp=sharing) for convenience.
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For the record, Novachen's version of Renegade Resurgence is not the current one. The 4.4x optimized version is available. I PMed Novachen about it, asking her to remove/unlist the older version.
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Also Goob recently updated INFR1.
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Not too long ago I was able to play CE: Aftermath on FSO 22.2 with MVPs 4.6.6. Which is odd because up until just recently for me it did require MVPs 3.7.2 (aka 2014 MVPs) for it to be playable.
I’ve tested most or all of the fs2-only mods, and none of them have mvp-related problems beyond compatibility tilemaps. New builds, being stricter in errors than old ones, sometimes break mods, but mvps seem fine. I’m looking at making some tbms for a few mods that don’t fully use current assets due to changed pof names since they were made, then I’ll see if the same is true for fsport-reliant mods, where the situation seems a bit more complex.
Tl;dr using only the current version of the mvps doesn’t seem to cause any problems, even with older mods