Morrowind is on the list and Fallout 3 isn't? If you're going to put Bethesda games on that list, put their best one.
This one:Umm. Best RPG of the decade. The RPG-7 was released in 1961.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Rpg-7.jpg
KotOR for me. But, I didn't play Baldur's Gate. I'm not even a Star Wars fan. In fact, I'd say that KotOR is better than any recent Star Wars fiction. IMO, HK-47 was one of the best characters created in this generation.
But, I don't think anything is ever going to top Ultima VII for me, personally.
No Baldur's Gate doesn't count, they were borrowing Forgotten Realms stuff wholesale you jackass! It gets absolutely no points for developing world, backstory, or original game mechanics, and can't. It doesn't belong in the same list as titles that had to or did build stuff from the ground up.
that would be because it is a licensed product in a storyline that is very well established already.
that would be because it is a licensed product in a storyline that is very well established already.
You seem to be under some strange impression I wasn't aware of that, when that was my point.
You can't rightly compare it to other games on the list which designed their worlds from the ground up; it is inherently uneven. Now granted I don't think it was any good at all, but I didn't even delve into that, though by some weird interpretation you seem to think I did.
I dont know what you know about Forgotten Realms but it is all based on a variation of dungeons and dragons and is a story set with maps and a chronicled time line that goes way beyond the period depicted in the computer games
by that, NWNI/II, KOTORI/II, Morrowind and Oblivion are out as they are all based on a preexisting stories NWN of course being, Forgotten Realms, KOTOR being Starwars set not long after the war with Exar Kun and Morrowind/Oblivion being continuations of the elder scroll series.
Voted for DA:O.I'm allowed to dislike something, believe it or not. And as I said, the list was according to my biases and prejudices. But fine. Someone second him and I'll add it to the list. Same goes for Arcanum. But noone's making me put up NWN1. Make Kara do it for you.
But, I have to take issue with the exclusion of Final Fantasy XII. That one was, in my opinion, much, much better than FFX in all respects. Excluding it from this List just because you didn't like it smacks of rampant Fan Dumb (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FanDumb)-ism.
...Actually... If Planescape:Torment was in the list, THAT's the game i'd vote for number 1. Morrowind is 2nd for me, so that's my pick there.One year too early. Nineteen days too early, actually.
Sarafan, you're wrong about KOTOR II, but I admit you have to be very forgiving (or really like plodding, dense, cerebral games) to really appreciate it. If it was a mess, well, if Chris Avellone had been forced to release Planescape: Torment before it was finished, it would have been a complete mess too, and I think that the ideas presented in KOTOR II are more interesting than those of Torment. The story's not about the Sith Lords. It's about the Exile.
What drew me in was the deconstruction of the blind faith in the Force that goes unquestioned in all other SW stories, the analysis of the Exile's choice to defy the Jedi and go to war (Which leads to the implication that sometimes you have to do what you believe to be the right thing, regardless of the potentially horrible consequences your actions might cause, because the universe is a cruel place and it might not offer you an acceptable choice that absolves you of responsibility. This flies in the face of the Jedi teachings, and many real-world religions as well), and because of Kreia, the most complex character I have ever seen in a game. I loved picking apart what she said and trying to assemble it into a coherent philosophy. That she occasionally lied to and manipulated you made it even more fun. What can I say? I love stuff like that.Agreed, that is a big reason why I liked KOTOR :yes:
What drew me in was the deconstruction of the blind faith in the Force that goes unquestioned in all other SW stories, the analysis of the Exile's choice to defy the Jedi and go to war (Which leads to the implication that sometimes you have to do what you believe to be the right thing, regardless of the potentially horrible consequences your actions might cause, because the universe is a cruel place and it might not offer you an acceptable choice that absolves you of responsibility. This flies in the face of the Jedi teachings, and many real-world religions as well), and because of Kreia, the most complex character I have ever seen in a game. I loved picking apart what she said and trying to assemble it into a coherent philosophy. That she occasionally lied to and manipulated you made it even more fun. What can I say? I love stuff like that.Agreed, that is a big reason why I liked KOTOR :yes:
Of those I've played (Baldur's Gates, Dragon Age) I have to give it to Dragon Age. Only game besides Freespace II I've ever been tempted to heavily mod just to get more excitement out of it.
Baldur's Gate II seriously annoyed me at the start and its hideous railroad plot killed a lot of the enjoyment for me. The first one was a lot better in my opinion because although technically inferior it didn't feel the need to lead the player around by the nose.
And as I said, the list was according to my biases and prejudices. But fine. Someone second him and I'll add it to the list. Same goes for Arcanum.I've only played it very briefly, but what didn't you like about Arcanum, Vega?
My vote goes to Mask of the Betrayer, with KotOR 2 as a close second. MotB was less ambitious, but it felt more polished than either of Avellone's other titles and explored some very interesting questions about faith that really struck a note with me. It also featured some of the most satisfying moral decisions I've encountered in a game.Oh I thought MotB was really good, even though the disappointing ending blew the game's chance for real greatness. As anyone who read my earlier post in this thread on Morrowind can guess, I was really looking forward to
Would be nice if you could add Planescape Torment, which i really liked. :yes:I also thought about that, but PS:T is from '99, no? And this poll was about RPGs released somewhere between 2000-2009, no?
Yeah, that's more or less why Mask of the Betrayer sucked in my view as well, Vega. :/ Though I'm not quite as militantly atheistic, in my case it was "this is being presented as a huge freaking injustice the whole game".Ok, I'm not militantly atheistic in the sense that I think religion is evil. I respect and often admire the faith of others (if genuine). More often then not it leads to a deep belief in morality and altruism. But I have nothing but contempt for the idea of a supreme divine authority itself. By his very existence God denies us free will. So when ever I'm in a story with characters rebelling against gods, I'm instantly sympathetic. And if their motives for doing so are compassionate and altruistic, as Kaelyn's were? No hesitation. I'll fight in the trenches with her.
Spoiler:But then again, we seem to disagree on a pretty fundamental level about how forceful a story should be with its philosophy. What you see as chickening out I see as tact. It may just depend on what one looks to get out of fiction.
(...)much weaker story.Highly debatable :cool:
that said, the main reason I took it over KotOR 2 was more to do with the experience of taking my character through that story than the story itself. Part of it may just have been because I'd gotten to know the character through NWN2, but I had more fun with the role-playing in that game than any other RPG I can recall.
So no. The ending wasn't tactful in any way. It was stupid. The entire design of the game was stupid because it was all working up to that point where it must by necessity pull a bait-and-switch on you.The fact that they didn't have a choice doesn't really bear on my appreciation of the ending. It sounds like they'd have been aware of that limitation from the beginning. They chose to tell this story anyway. Maybe things would have been different if they'd had more liberty with the setting, but a work should be considered on its own merits.
Really? One of the big problems I had with playing MotB was that I couldn't get a feel for my character until I stormed the Academy, really. Whereas in KOTORII, half the entire story is dealing with choices that the Exile made in the past, I so I had a very good feel for her character early on.Not sure what to tell you, Vega. I never got a good feel for the Exile's motivations. I did really like the structure of the game, and I couldn't agree more about Kreia. I just didn't have as much fun with it as I did with MotB. But I'm yet to play it with the restored content, so maybe that'll change.
Whereas in KOTORII, half the entire story is dealing with choices that the Exile made in the past, I so I had a very good feel for her character early on. And her connection with Kreia was the closest one I've ever had between an NPC and a player character in a game. Thinking back, even with the restored content, only two characters that are really well developed - Kreia and the Exile, and only three others were really very interesting (Visas, Brianna, and to a lesser extent, Canderous). I liked Mira, but she just didn't get enough written for her. Atton's characterization was excellent at the beginning but he became quite boring by the end. Everyone else was filler. I never realized that playing through it though. That game lives and dies on Kreia's arthritic shoulders.
Mass Effect (Personally I don't think it belongs up here, but whatever)
Kreia was the best part of KotOR2, hands-down. Yes, it is hinted rather strongly she is Darth Trayus, but aside from that she is pure gold. She really makes you question the Force and the Jedi, and you don't have to read a Karen Traviss novel. She's win-win.
I choose Kotor 1 because it has an awesome story, characters and dialogue. examples Darth Revan and Malaks story are epic and sad on how things turned out for the 2 best friends. HK-47 has me in stitches. I just wish bioware would finish Revans, HK-47, bastilias story in a sequel, Not a MMO! i hate it when developers do that (i.e Blizzard :nervous:). Now i would have gone for the Mass effect series, they truly are epic games but in my mind they are more shooters that rpgs, Dragon age was excellent but it lost my vote on how disappointing and short the ending was, it was like that they had rushed it, A cutscene with the endings for the other characters or even a narration would have been nice, but instead we get a few screens of text with a still image on it :(
Uh huh. So she didn't ask you questions about the nature of the Force and about your actions and their consequences?
I don't know why Mass Effect 2 isn't on this ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL
Mass Effect 2 *is* in this decade.
The next decade starts next year.
There was no year 0.
If you want to nitpick, ten, but not in the same "decade" as we group them.Seriously. As far as I'm concerned, there was a Year 0. And even if there wasn't, why would that change anything? Just make the first century AD/CE a special case with 99 years, and stick with 100 for the rest.
You know, it'd be really easy to make a year 0, since all the dates we have for B.C. (or B.C.E., if you care that much) are pretty close to guesswork anyway (ironically including the event we're supposing to measure from).
SENTIENT BEINGS NEED NEVER FEAR PAIN
Wizardry 8. The most replayable rpg ever, if you're into the genere.
Wish these "kinds" of games hadn't died out, but evolved alongside the rest.It's sad indeed. But understandable -- not much audience left for such rpgs, where a random battle can take 30 mins to complete ;-)
QuoteWish these "kinds" of games hadn't died out, but evolved alongside the rest.It's sad indeed. But understandable -- not much audience left for such rpgs, where a random battle can take 30 mins to complete ;-)
QuoteWish these "kinds" of games hadn't died out, but evolved alongside the rest.It's sad indeed. But understandable -- not much audience left for such rpgs, where a random battle can take 30 mins to complete ;-)
It never took 30 minutes once you got to the goodies/spells like Nuclear Blast, Word of whatever it was called and i think uhhh Mind Flay (or so) :)Generally that is true. Still, there are battles where the enemy has huge loads of HP, while also your party is apt to withstand a hell of a beating before perishing (like in the screenshot I attached). But, yep, tedious battling is actually one of the best things about this game :)