Author Topic: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?  (Read 186860 times)

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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
I don't think the GTVA will kill any prisoners or detainees. However, if the captured individual was a deserter, they may either be executed or stripped of their wings and all privileges bestowed upon them as a member of the GTVA. What the GTVA probably wants to know is how the UEF works, and they can only do that by moles or interrogating whoever they capture.
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Offline -Norbert-

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Quote
I must say, that sounds inherently stupid. The Maxim is shooting a pretty large caliber projectile made of U-235 (depleted uranium) at (for FS speeds) very high velocities. The notion that you could just pass off the tremendous kinetic energy and momentum from those weapons is just silly - even something like ERA (Explosive Reactive Armor) is pushing it as, hey, it blows up to prevent an incoming round from making contact! Destroyable armor plates are one thing, but armor "resistant" to physics and/or common sense is entirely different. And, as a disclaimer, I will note FS makes legendary stabs against physics, but simultaneously it has a sort of believable gameplay to it (thus not conflicting with common sense).
Hm... so armor that is more resistant to Maxims than the standard UEF armor is more unrealistic than an energy based weapon firing infinate numbers of uranium rounds?

I'd like to petition to either change the maxims techroom entry or make it a ballistic weapon. Tough changing the techroom entry is probably the better idea, since with that rate of fire it would eat up ammunition very fast, which in return is very likely to alter misson balance.

 

Offline starlord

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Missions in lao tze's... :nod:

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
I actually think something as simple as a few wings of Herc2s armed with Maxims could completely replace bombers against the majority of Federation targets. They're not as vulnerable, their payloads can't be shot down and they don't even need to get in close.

UEF ships may start rolling with Maxim-resistant armor, though.

...

I must say, that sounds inherently stupid. The Maxim is shooting a pretty large caliber projectile made of U-235 (depleted uranium) at (for FS speeds) very high velocities. The notion that you could just pass off the tremendous kinetic energy and momentum from those weapons is just silly - even something like ERA (Explosive Reactive Armor) is pushing it as, hey, it blows up to prevent an incoming round from making contact! Destroyable armor plates are one thing, but armor "resistant" to physics and/or common sense is entirely different. And, as a disclaimer, I will note FS makes legendary stabs against physics, but simultaneously it has a sort of believable gameplay to it (thus not conflicting with common sense).

You're silly.

1) gameplay uber alles - the Maxim has needed a nerf since retail and this is the only way we can do it without altering retail balance (BP is committed to near-total retail compatibility

2) Right now, today, at this very moment, there exists armor that is resistant to ballistic penetrators. Your failure to understand this indicates that you, in fact, live in a parallel universe where everything is built using the same structural techniques as the armor of medieval knights. I have alerted the Department of Interdimensional Affairs, because there seems to be no other explanation for this gross oversight.

3) gameplay uber alles. We will do whatever the heck we like if it makes the gameplay better. But just for you we can put in a mission where you escort a cruiser from waves of twelve or sixteen Hercs with Maxims. Enjoy.

...

Actually the concept of just slapping new armor with radically different material properties sounds a bit crazy in itself. If it were just extra material of the same type that would be reasonably permissible since, y'know, multi-megaton forces and all that. But replacing it with something totally different can't do anything good for the ship's overall structural dynamics.

...and if it's turret, how are you going to protect it any better without altering its field of fire or ability to react to new targets? The muzzle has got to stay uncovered...

That's funny, we just spent a few years watching this happen in Iraq!

Also, gameplay > everything

I really don't see what's so unbelievable about armor that is resistant to being shot.

Its really hand-wavy and magic. "we can make armor resistant to anything you throw at us, without sacrificing resistance to anything else!"

Unless of course, your maxim-resistant armor melts uber-quick to subachs or something.

No magic everything-proof armor plz. That's just dumb.

See above.

Again, the Maxim has needed a nerf since retail. We can't alter the Maxim's retail table stats without changing backwards compatibility. This is the best way to gain missionside control of its potency, and the set-armor-type and set-damage-type SEXPs will do wonders for our modular control over Maxim behavior.

In general we belong to the Procyon Insurgency school of mission design, where anything and everything was altered on a mission-by-mission basis in order to improve the gameplay.

And to clarify, this would probably be a case-by-case 20-40% reduction in Maxim damage, not some kind of Maxim-proofing. It's far less dramatic than some of the armor ships in R1 were rolling with.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 07:13:38 am by General Battuta »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Expandulated!

Our fluff for armor types is pretty broad. We use them to represent changing ECM environments, varying weapon loads, and the vagaries of active armor - a system we've intentionally left pretty opaque (see below.) In general, armor types (and now weapon, shockwave, and asteroid damage types, which just got added by Fury's request) can be used to handle elements of the battlespace that fall below the resolution of the FreeSpace simulation.

Active armor was originally just a conceit to justify rapid hull regeneration between missions, something akin to BattleTech's HarJel. As we looked through the FreeSpace fluff, though, we realized that even in the FreeSpace 1 era the setting had shielded missiles and other oft-overlooked peculiarities. Our armor fluff right now postulates that FreeSpace warships are studded with integral defensive systems akin to fighter shields, massive ECM abilities, banks of reactive armor panels, active countermeasures like laser pods, and a myriad of other defensive technologies.

If you played 'The Blade Itself', which it sounds like Thaeris hasn't since he apparently missed the reactive armor fluff there, you have an idea of how we'd justify improved resistance versus Maxims - additional reactive plating field-refitted onto ships, laser pods and improved targeting to degrade the ballistic characteristics of inbound Maxim rounds, fortified hull armor to tumble the munitions or otherwise defeat them, additional power to ECM or modifications to the software to degrade Maxim fire control (since we assume most FS2-era primaries use something akin to the FS1 Maxim), or applique plates to simply improve the thickness.

You'll also note that the Carthage was field-testing an armor system which improved resistance to Federation artillery and torpedoes, presumably operating on similar principles.

In general remember that these are ships that routinely survive dozens of nuclear-yield blasts. Postulating that armor of that magnitude can't be used to defeat kinetic penetrators is...odd.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Quote
since we assume most FS2-era primaries use something akin to the FS1 Maxim
err... what ?
I know that something is wrong here, but I don't see what you actually wanted to say here.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Quote
since we assume most FS2-era primaries use something akin to the FS1 Maxim
err... what ?
I know that something is wrong here, but I don't see what you actually wanted to say here.

Whoops! I meant Prometheus. Good catch.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Prometheus adjusts the frequency somehow to match the target, right? Except that it automagically can see into the future to know what the shot is actually going to hit :p

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Prometheus adjusts the frequency somehow to match the target, right? Except that it automagically can see into the future to know what the shot is actually going to hit :p

I think it's safe to assume most ships are made out of a single-alloy hull. :P

...they even suggest the Ursa is more "cast" than "assembled".
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Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Prometheus adjusts the frequency somehow to match the target, right? Except that it automagically can see into the future to know what the shot is actually going to hit :p
... sensors ?
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 
Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
In the rounds?

Considering FS principles and all that you could even justify a Sub-Space Defense Field (SSDF). Warps incoming rounds into sub-space and into enemy ships?

If I ever get into figuring out how to make a mission/ do code I'll have to try that. Could be fun.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
In the rounds?
Wat

Sensors in the cannon. They "tag" the target, analyse the hull materials and modulate the bolts before firing. Pretty obvious.
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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Or more likely linking the weapon to the ships targeting computer to adapt the shots to the current target.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
I believe what he is talking about is you don't always hit what you have targeted.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
Indeed.  Or, sometimes, anything that was in your field of vision when you fired.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
I believe what he is talking about is you don't always hit what you have targeted.

Precisely.

The Prometheus can see into the future and predict stuff. And optimizes its damage accordingly. Even if it's a friendly you hit with it :p

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
I still maintain that the shots should adapt to the current target and that they adapt to what they actually hit is only a "limitation of the game engine"  or "sprouting technobabbly in the techroom"  :p

 
Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
More like separating fluff and gameplay. Remember, the Avenger was a Vulcan/Phalanx CIWS analogue in the FS1 techroom too, not a slow blob cannon.

 

Offline Jellyfish

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
A thought out of the blue: what about multi-targeting swarm missiles? Like today's planes, that can launch many air -to-air missiles at many targets at the same time.
And, like today's planes (I think), depending on the ship you choose. you can lock on more or less targets. For example, getting this missile on the Kentauroi will allow you to lock on 4 targets. On the Uriel, 8.

Will this lead to imbalanced gameplay? It could at least be used to make bomb interception easier.
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Offline Snail

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Re: What do you want in the rest of War in Heaven?
A thought out of the blue: what about multi-targeting swarm missiles? Like today's planes, that can launch many air -to-air missiles at many targets at the same time.
And, like today's planes (I think), depending on the ship you choose. you can lock on more or less targets. For example, getting this missile on the Kentauroi will allow you to lock on 4 targets. On the Uriel, 8.

Will this lead to imbalanced gameplay? It could at least be used to make bomb interception easier.
That would be pretty cool. Multiple targeting and multiple swarm missiles are all possible via scripting already.