[Enioch]

But if the UCGR Fleets move first (all fleets moving on first action, but they go first) the system becomes contested. Therefore, it is ok to move from contested to contested.

Correct?

No, I don't think so. The system must be already contested when you move to it. So, if I waited until my second action, I might be allowed to do this. However, moving during the same action that makes the system contested is probably forbidden. Otherwise, you could argue that such movements would be allowed anyway, because moving a fleet into a hostile system makes it contested.

[Lorric]

But if the UCGR Fleets move first (all fleets moving on first action, but they go first) the system becomes contested. Therefore, it is ok to move from contested to contested.

Correct?

No, I don't think so. The system must be already contested when you move to it. So, if I waited until my second action, I might be allowed to do this. However, moving during the same action that makes the system contested is probably forbidden. Otherwise, you could argue that such movements would be allowed anyway, because moving a fleet into a hostile system makes it contested.

The argument is a legal move is being made by the UGCR fleets, making your move legal. That's how I thought it would work.

Spooooooon! Can we please go and crush your 4th Hertak fleet?

Regardless of whether we can or can't, I believe we should attack.

If it doesn't, then kill the Fura'ngle instead, and have the 1st LSF and 3rd DD smash the 4th Nordera, then the 3rd DD move into Kardoen.

[Veers]

Sorry, I mean

UGCR 1
First Action: Move
Section Action: Go sight-seeing

UGCR 2
First Action: Move
Section Action: Take a Holiday

1st CRF
First Action: Move to Aquarius
Second Action: Faff around in the clouds

DD 3rd
First Action: Move
Section Action: Do all the hard work

If the Admirals post in this order, then the systems becomes contested when the 1st UGCR enters the system, so by the time we move through the first actions and find the 3rd DD. The system is contested, therefore they can move it.

I hope that makes me clearer, I'm having trouble understanding myself atm. (I thought it was allowed anyway)

[Enioch]

Uhhh.... so you're asking for the 3rd DD to attack the Hertak alone? or even the Furangle alone? No. Forget it. I am already unable to resupply and I refuse to attack as anything other than as part of a battlegroup, to spread the damage. Do not argue about how I can afford it, or resupply later - I will not risk it. Especially not in reach of the Doomstack, with two Hertak Fleets in range.

EDIT: can we actually kill the Nordera in Draco this turn? Because that would open up some very interesting strategic possibilities...

[Lorric]

Uhhh.... so you're asking for the 3rd DD to attack the Hertak alone? or even the Furangle alone? No. Forget it. I am already unable to resupply and I refuse to attack as anything other than as part of a battlegroup, to spread the damage. Do not argue about how I can afford it, or resupply later - I will not risk it. Especially not in reach of the Doomstack, with two Hertak Fleets in range.

EDIT: can we actually kill the Nordera in Draco this turn? Because that would open up some very interesting strategic possibilities...

No. I'm asking you to wipe them out with the UGCR fleets.

EDIT: The Nordera cannot be killed. If the move on the Hertak is impossible, the attack I asked for would reduce them to 18/27.

[Enioch]

I was talking to Veers. Your argument I got, and it makes sense but for the moving-into-non-contested-system thing, which we need Spoon's ruling for.

[Lorric]

I was talking to Veers. Your argument I got, and it makes sense but for the moving-into-non-contested-system thing, which we need Spoon's ruling for.

Ah.

[niffiwan]

I think we'll need Spoon to arbitrate on whether the 3rd DD can move to Kardoen at the same time the UGCR fleets move in.  My personal feeling is that this would not be allowed, all 1st moves happen at the same time, so the DD would have to wait at least until the 2nd action to move, meaning they couldn't attack the 4th Hertak anyway.

As for destroying the 4th Nordera, I think the 1st LSF + 3rd DD can deal 73% capship damage, while they have 84% remaining, so not quite.

(you guys are posting too fast, this is practically out of date now )

[Veers]

My actions there are supposed funny in regard to your comment of the 3rd DD doing all the work

In any case, the northern front seems secure, now that the 1st DD is back to clean up your mess. The Delest Fleets get all the dirty work around here...  

Aww damn, I looked at the wrong data window, I checked the total Allied Fleet total rather than the battle total. Which said I still have 40odd % left, not 20something%

Hmmm...

Code: [Select]

1st CRF Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 12 (16+2+3+2)
Capital attack strength: 10 (17+3+2)
Fighters at 33% Strength, 3rd Gen
Capital ships at 29% Strength
Morale: Zealous
Aggressive Leader

Code: [Select]

Commonwealth Royal Fleet: 4/4
1st CRF Fleet:
 - Fighter attack strength: 12 (16+2+3)
 - Capital attack strength: 10 (17+3)
 - Fighters at 43% Strength, 3rd Gen
 - Capital ships at 40% Strength
 - Morale: Zealous

[Lorric]

I think we'll need Spoon to arbitrate on whether the 3rd DD can move to Kardoen at the same time the UGCR fleets move in.  My personal feeling is that this would not be allowed, all 1st moves happen at the same time, so the DD would have to wait at least until the 2nd action to move, meaning they couldn't attack the 4th Hertak anyway.

As for destroying the 4th Nordera, I think the 1st LSF + 3rd DD can deal 73% capship damage, while they have 84% remaining, so not quite.

(you guys are posting too fast, this is practically out of date now )

It shows what a grey area it is that two of us think the move legal and two don't. I really hope we can do it. Not just for obvious reasons, but it'll look fantastic on the turn 11 vid. I thought the UGCR fleets wiping out the 1st Zy was a big highlight of those videos, beautiful with those Zy capships exploding to the power of the UGCR ships, with that beautiful backdrop. This would be a big step up, a full strength Hertak fleet destroyed in a single stroke.

Heh.

[niffiwan]

Aww damn, I looked at the wrong data window, I checked the total Allied Fleet total rather than the battle total. Which said I still have 40odd % left, not 20something%

Hmmm...

From my calcs, you should be able to scrape through.  2nd SF + 1st CRF (including the 5 point attack penalty for Aquarius) reduce the 3rd Zy to 44/49, leaving their attack (with the -5) @ 12/13.  Your fleet should be at 23/18, so you'd survive the counter-attack with 5% capships remaining.  And that doesn't include the 2nd SF Blitz, which should do another 5/4 damage to the 3rd Zy, reducing their attack strength slightly further.

Of course, the turn after will get interesting for you, although the Aquarius special does mean you don't have to worry about retreat damage.

[Enioch]

You have absolutely no idea how disappointed I feel that the Delest fleets are not yet ready for the videos, when they've been present in every destruction of a Hertak fleet.

Spoon, I understand that you just don't have the assets ready and that, as they say, is that, but I expect recompense. The Delest Admirals are to be awesome NPCs in the WoD release. You hear?

I got my eyes on you mister. Cyanide is brewing.

EDIT: niffi, excellent calcs, but this still doesn't help him next turn. We need to find a way to get him out of there. Maybe if all Odin Fleets retreated to Tamy, to hold the choke (which would also get them out of range of the Doomstack) and the 2nd SF double moved to Ruba or Silva? Extreme, but it would work.

[Veers]

Thanks for the calculation, but while I was not considering attacking originally. (even though i posted it), I probably won't get a retreat in next turn if the Zy attack, as I'll be gone-skies. Can the Zy be wiped out?

[Enioch]

Not if they stay in Aqua. They're outside my range and I believe that I'm the only hitter heavy enough nearby to kill them.

The only thing I can suggest you do, is retreat NOW. To Formalhaut. Where you will be met by the 1st DD, which will cover any further retreats.

I can't say for sure if you will survive a fight in Formalhaut, though, given that the Zy will have no -5 nebula penalty. Somebody needs to crunch numbers. And I'm going to bed.

[Spoon]

I think we'll need Spoon to arbitrate on whether the 3rd DD can move to Kardoen at the same time the UGCR fleets move in.  My personal feeling is that this would not be allowed, all 1st moves happen at the same time, so the DD would have to wait at least until the 2nd action to move, meaning they couldn't attack the 4th Hertak anyway.

As for destroying the 4th Nordera, I think the 1st LSF + 3rd DD can deal 73% capship damage, while they have 84% remaining, so not quite.

(you guys are posting too fast, this is practically out of date now )

Posting fast indeed!
You are correct on this though, the 3rd DD would have to wait for its second action to move into kardoen.

You have absolutely no idea how disappointed I feel that the Delest fleets are not yet ready for the videos, when they've been present in every destruction of a Hertak fleet.

Spoon, I understand that you just don't have the assets ready and that, as they say, is that, but I expect recompense. The Delest Admirals are to be awesome NPCs in the WoD release. You hear?

I got my eyes on you mister. Cyanide is brewing.

The reason why there hasn't been a video going with the last two turns and the turns that are still missing them is because I'm secretly working on getting the first DD capitalship into the game! Dear heavens, please put away that cyanide!
It's a Droid803 made ship but I've made a few alterations. I'm still deciding on what colorscheme to go with, right now its a very dark blue, almost black. Makes it kinda hard to see though!

[niffiwan]

Thanks for clearing that up Spoon.

EDIT: niffi, excellent calcs, but this still doesn't help him next turn. We need to find a way to get him out of there. Maybe if all Odin Fleets retreated to Tamy, to hold the choke (which would also get them out of range of the Doomstack) and the 2nd SF double moved to Ruba or Silva? Extreme, but it would work.

The 3rd SF could double move to Aquarius to cover them, but the 1st CRF could still get away the following turn (12?) by double moving away.  No retreat damage, and the 3rd Zy could only follow, not attack. As long as they run towards another fleet, the 3rd Zy would be blocked there, that's even if they'd follow in the 1st place.  They might drop another supernova if they're left alone for a turn...

I can't say for sure if you will survive a fight in Formalhaut, though, given that the Zy will have no -5 nebula penalty. Somebody needs to crunch numbers. And I'm going to bed.

If the 1st CRF double moved to Formalhaut, they should survive an attack this turn from the 3rd Zy even if the 2nd SF doesn't attack or blitz them.  Deals 24/24, leaving them with 5% capships left.

One other thing to consider, the 2nd SF morale is already "very low" due to being attacked while resupplying (I guess).  Will they lose morale again for dropping below 50%?

Maybe the 1st CRF double moving to Tamy would be better, then they could have other fleets to cover their retreat if the 3rd Zy attack them.


Moving on to the UGCR... if we both attack the 4th Hertak we have:
1 UGCR: 131/105
2 UGCR: 156/129
4 Hertak: 26/28

Return fire would be (assuming 2nd Fura resupplied this turn and attack with Flag H + 1st Fura):
1 UGCR: 46/10

If we both attack the 2nd Fura (again assuming they resupplied):
1 UGCR: 143/118
2 UGCR: 168/142
2nd Fura: -20/-12    (includes extra resupply damage)

Return fire would be (assuming Flag H + 1st Fura + 4th Hertak):
1 UGCR: 35/-2


So, hitting the 4th Hertak would seem the better option here, even though we're not destroying a fleet.  The following turn, the 3 DD & 2 UGCR could continue the attack while the 1 UGCR retreats to resupply, assuming that Aldebaran isn't contested.  If it is, a double move to Vega (if the 1 LSF/3 DD can still cover Draco) would be better.  Of course, the 2x Nordera + 4 Hertak remnants could attack the 1 LSF for around 32/33.  Or the DoomStack could hit the 1 LSF/3 DD instead of the 2x UGCR, that would be about 85/95 damage which would destroy the 1st LSF.

[Flak]

Aldebaran, Subspace missile barrage

Don't tell me that that whatever Fura/Zy fleet is led by Steele's clone.

[Droid803]

I don't think Steele's been warping in SSMs from Delta Serpentis.
This seems to be a bit more...long-range.

[Enioch]

@niffi: good points. Sounds like a plan to me. Go for the 4th Htk and godspeed.

I will hit the Nordera, then, and prepare my barrage for extra pwnage next turn.

[Lorric]

While I think Enioch's move is better than the one I proposed, giving him extra firepower and the flexibility to attack into several systems next turn, I strongly believe we should kill the 2nd Fura while we have the chance. I imagine the 2nd Fura and 4th Hertak will simply retreat behind Kardoen to resupply and the flag fleet will settle into Kardoen so we can't follow, and we will have accomplished nothing.

For the Zy, I would now have the SF Blitz them then re-enter the system. It's now about stalling them.