[haloboy100]

that was for kyu, like you said

[Turey]

that was for kyu, like you said

Here Haloboy100





 

Honestly though, it's not that big a deal. I never got one.

[Wobble73]

 :


As Turey said, it's not that big a deal!

[Unknown Target]

Aw, poor haloboy...he didn't a completely meaningless image shown to him, and when he did, he missed it...

*single tear/emo/slits wrists*

[haloboy100]

lol i tend to make a big deal out of small things when i don't have anything that i should make a big deal out of around.

[[DW]-Hunter]

"Tom's old engine" build should fix the problems. See www.freespacezone.com for the download... it's at the end of the page.

no, it's just a cheat that circumvents the security checks and should be banned

How is toms build a cheat now?

[Unknown Target]

lol i tend to make a big deal out of small things when i don't have anything that i should make a big deal out of around.

Solution:


Don't do that.

[haloboy100]

i don't see why not

[Flipside]

Anyone using Toms build will be left out in the cold soon anyway, it broke compatability with other versions and, despite putting it off for some time, FS2NET is going to have to become incompatible with it soon, possibly in a month or two. IIRC it's something to do with version numbers.

[[DW]-Hunter]

Well actually, toms build IS compatible with the scp build in TvT

Tom has been playing multi lately, and im sure he is going to make the necessary changes to make his build more compatible with the scp build.

[Flipside]

Yes, it's compatible at the moment. However, I'd need Kara to confirm the details, but I'm not sure just how much the whole FSNET2 is going to change.

Basically, we are trying to promote the SCP, features and all, and the more people are playing on Toms build the less people are actually testing the SCP to get rid of those bugs. If another version of Toms build comes out, it may well simply be that those problems will get transferred on to another generation.

Personally, I'd much rather people actually helped the SCP guys fix the bugs in the main and supported version so that everyone can play multiplayer than having multiple versions of Freespace 2 knocking around with different SexP's and feature support. It actually makes the coders' job a lot harder, and also makes expanding the abilities of SCP Multiplay to support new game modes etc a lot harder as well.

Toms build was a great addition at the time, the multiplayer support for Freespace hadn't been touched that much and it allowed people to play online again, but we need to move on from it, I don't want it to become a ball and chain around the ankle of the SCP, The whole purpose of the SCP is to make Freespace even more than it was originally, it's a rocky road, I'll admit, but that just means we need everyone pulling the cart, as it were.

[karajorma]

My problem with Tom's build isn't that it sucks away people from the FS2_Open community or anything like that. My only problem is that we only ever see the people who use it around here to moan about the SCP or complain that we've broken something on their build with a change and that's a relatively minor one anyway. 

Let me see if I can get my point across without this degenerating into an argument. Tom's build basically exists cause some multiplayer people decided that once PXO went down they wanted to keep playing online. Kazan had already developed a way to play FS2_Open online but FS2_Open was less stable in those days so they decided to make the build rather than wait for the SCP to improve. Now that's fair enough. If the multi community don't want to play on FS2_Open and don't want to help us improve the game and bug fix that's their right.

However, that's not what I want (and although I don't want to speak for him I suspect that's not what Taylor wants either). My goal for multiplayer is not to be stuck with what FS2 had. I want to see 64 player dogfights. I want to see FS2_Open multiplayer compete with any commercial space sim out there (if there were any! ). And if I know how to do that and if I have the time I'm going to code it in.

So how does Tom's build come into that? Simple fact is that it doesn't. I don't care if my changes cause packet incompatibilities that break Tom's build. I don't care if they require PXO/FS2NetD changes that break it. I'm not going to go out of my way to break or disable Tom's build but if my changes mean it stops working I don't care. Cause Tom's build is basically proof that the multi community don't particularly care for the SCP so why should we care about them?

My goal is to make the SCP the best mulitplayer it can be. IF Tom's build has to keep patching to keep up so be it. If it falls behind and becomes unstable/unusable that's not my problem.

[[DW]-Hunter]

I would like to add onto that so people know, Toms is NOT completely incompatible. You can still play TvT on toms and retail with a FS2_Open host but you cannot play Co-Op. Yet I have no control over Toms/Retail being compatible in the end, but ATLEAST use the code from toms as an advantage to use his features that he added. Heres the list of things I can think of he added, although I know there are more.

• When a person trys to join a game while the game is in progress, a message pops up in the text area, saying (name) has knocked on the door. It showed while you were in briefing/debrief/in game.
• Theres a stat list of everyones kills and assists that you can toggle (in game).
• When you join a game, everyone will see a message telling you what build is being used.
• In game banning.
• When that person is banned their IP is shown
• A WORKING standalone server

Also if you add these changes, I propose to do add on to it as well. And if you guys put it in, and Let it see if toms or retail is being used and they can still join via IP even when toms acceptance is removed from fs2netd. It would show <(name)is using a not compatible build> rather then just saying #aes^$8d@ when the person joins because it cant read the version number. How you can do it is, if it trys to read the version number, and does't get any results from that, it automaticly puts in non compatible build. This way the person knows not to play Co-Op

--Thanks for your time to read this =)

<edit> Can someone get the standalone working please, Teamwars needs to be functioning when we start our tournament.

[castor]

Cause Tom's build is basically proof that the multi community don't particularly care for the SCP so why should we care about them?

Hmm... I thought it was more like the "stable branch" before we had one.
Or would you seriously recommend anyone but the SCP/other FSO project members to use FSO HEAD for multi?

[[DW]-Hunter]

In case you guys are wondering where we are going to get this toms build code, I believe Tom handed it over to Taylor but im not 100% sure it was taylor he gave it to, I DO know for a fact he handed it over to one of the SCP coders however.

[Goober5000]

Hmm... I thought it was more like the "stable branch" before we had one.
Or would you seriously recommend anyone but the SCP/other FSO project members to use FSO HEAD for multi?

Tom's build is not the stable branch. Tom's build is basically retail with a buggy version of FS2NetD stuck onto it.

[BlackDove]

I would rather have my face sandblasted off, before I ran that build through my copy of Freespace.

[[DW]-Hunter]

Hmm... I thought it was more like the "stable branch" before we had one.
Or would you seriously recommend anyone but the SCP/other FSO project members to use FSO HEAD for multi?

Tom's build is not the stable branch. Tom's build is basically retail with a buggy version of FS2NetD stuck onto it.

if thats true, how come it never crashed until you changed up 3.6.9s multiplayer setup ? I think you have your facts backwards goober. Toms may have bugs but they definitly arent apparent like the ones that were happening in your build.

I would rather have my face sandblasted off, before I ran that build through my copy of Freespace.

I was saying the same thing about FS2_Open when it was buggy as hell in multiplayer

[Flipside]

That's because it was written for a 300Mhz processor and a 4Mb Graphics card.

And bugs don't have to cause crashes, they just have to produce errors.

Part of the reason for upgrading Multiplay, as I understand it, is to improve the packet design so that it puts far less weight on the server for each player. That way, as Kara said, you can have 64 player Multiplay etc.

I'm with Kara here, FSO will just keep getting upgraded, if you want to play Toms build, and Tom wants to continue supporting it, then fine, I'm not certain what will happen when new Multiplayer stuff using FSO Sexp's etc starts making its way onto the server, but it may take more maintenance than simply the Network code, and certainly scripted Multiplayer scenarios, when they appear, will be pretty much inaccessible unless Toms also willing to add Lua support etc.

These are all things that the SCP team want to add to FSO Multiplay, it allows you to have far far more than the current options in Multiplayer, the possibilities abound. However, the more people that are using Toms build, the less people there are finding those problems and reporting them, the less chance there is that they will get fixed, the less the likelihood of Freespace 2 multiplay growing outside it's own little community and the less people for you to shoot at.

[castor]

Tom's build is not the stable branch. Tom's build is basically retail with a buggy version of FS2NetD stuck onto it.

Yes, I know. What I meant was that back then Toms was, in practice, a lot more stable than fso, with buggy_fs2net. Therefore it was used.
But I rather use 3.6.9 now.