[Logistics]

I've been giving some thought to the end game scenario for the UEF.

There seems to be 2 viable strategic options, as I understand things.

1. The UEF commits sufficient fleet assets to engage and destroy a major ship and/or battlegroup of the GTVA, something around 30% of their current forces in-system. The sudden reversal against an enemy who was apparently 'on the ropes' could shift public opinion in the colonies decisively against the war. Basically, a Tet offensive.

This is essentially a one-off strategy due to the fact that UEF forces would take significant, if not critical casualties attempting such an action - which might not succeed even if tried. If the GTVA did not immediately back off, it's likely they would not retain sufficient forces to realistically defend themselves. Historically, such attempts have had mixed results.

2. This leaves Byrne's project as the remaining option. Given the bent of the story, this would seem to be the likely option to resolve things, unless our intrepid designers like putting out red herrings. The specifics are probably not able to be guessed, but in general, I can think of a few things.

A) The project will not involve direct military force. It will not be an extra fleet or giant juggernaut. Not only has this been done in-universe before, but the GTVA does have sufficient reserves to engage any realistically viable idea.

B) It will be a strategic game changing option that dramatically changes the outlook on the war.

A few thoughts of my own...

-The project is a way to artifically induce temporary system jump nodes at a destination of your choice. Being able to outmaneuver the enemy would be a gigantic advantage the UEF could use as leverage.

-The project allows direct communication with Shivan and Vishnan intelligences, allowing actual negotiation to take place. But we've been down that particular road before.

-The project replicates the star-instability trick the shivans pulled on Capella. Given the general outlook of the UEF, I find this a slim option at best.

Ideas?

[Trivial Psychic]

Setting aside the typical mysticism often in BP, I would suggest the addition of beam weapons to UEF ships (as possible evidenced by a screenshot posted in the Celebration of Freespace thread showing a UEF capital ship that to me appears to be firing beam weapons rather than getting hit by them), or (slightly more unlikely) the addition of cap-ship shields to UEF ships.  While the first would even up the balance in terms of firepower, the shields would make UEF ships much more survivable to all except beam weapons.

[-Norbert-]

-The project replicates the star-instability trick the shivans pulled on Capella. Given the general outlook of the UEF, I find this a slim option at best.

Erm... what?
How would blowing up the sun help in saving the UEF from being conquered?

[Deadly in a Shadow]

How useful is the destruction of a star?

Option A) sounds too much like Inferno. And we are talking about STEELE as the enemy. If the UEF builds a Juggernaut/some kind of awesome weapon, he would know.

[Logistics]

-The project replicates the star-instability trick the shivans pulled on Capella. Given the general outlook of the UEF, I find this a slim option at best.

Erm... what?
How would blowing up the sun help in saving the UEF from being conquered?

Wouldn't exactly be a wise move to make, but it would be the ultimate expression of 'scorched earth' tactics ever seen.

Edit:

That aside, the UEF is well aware of the GTVA's need to control SOL infrastructure. It would be the equivalent of holding oneself hostage, but that does not necessarily mean that it couldn't force the GTVA to the poltical negotiating table, rather then simply relying on force as they have been.

[Scotty]

The UEF doesn't really do scorched earth.

[T-Man]

I usually try to avoid guessing the storylins (like to look forward to it), but i will allow myself this one post as the team seems to not mind them.

Always had it in my head the Beis are trying to contact the Vishnans and begging them to send in the Cavalry (Preserver alone could probably wipe out Steele's entire battlegroup, let alone the Atreus), but for some reason the Vishnans arn't responding to them; maybe they want the humans to work this one out themselves.

Whatever it is, hope it works. I really want the UEF to win this.

...

Failing the above, they're building a time machine to grab Chuck Norris. (sorry poor joke couldn't resist )

[Deadly in a Shadow]

I usually try to avoid guessing the storylins (like to look forward to it), but i will allow myself this one post as the team seems to not mind them.

Always had it in my head the Beis are trying to contact the Vishnans and begging them to send in the Cavalry (Preserver alone could probably wipe out Steele's entire battlegroup, let alone the Atreus), but for some reason the Vishnans arn't responding to them; maybe they want the humans to work this one out themselves.

And what if the humanity failed in their purpose? They should evolve to reach a level equal to the "brahmans of old." Instead they fight themselves and the vasudans will (maybe) actively intervene in the war.

[Raiden]

My first thought was it was an artifical node leading to a different universe that would somehow be sealed off from the Shivans, perhaps one where the Shivans simply never existed. The Vishnans were probably the ones who suggested this to the Elders and offered to share their dimension-traversing abilities. Perhaps they have now gone silent until the GTVA-UEF war settles itself, perhaps brokering a peace is the final 'test' the Vishnans require humanity to perform. Perhaps the GTVA have somehow cottoned on to this and are really trying to win back Sol in order that they be the ones who travel to the sealed-off universe and not the UEF. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

[Logistics]

A few thoughts of my own...

-The project is a way to artifically induce temporary system jump nodes at a destination of your choice. Being able to outmaneuver the enemy would be a gigantic advantage the UEF could use as leverage.

-The project allows direct communication with Shivan and Vishnan intelligences, allowing actual negotiation to take place. But we've been down that particular road before.

-The project replicates the star-instability trick the shivans pulled on Capella. Given the general outlook of the UEF, I find this a slim option at best.

Ideas?

To clarify, regarding the above, those were just wild guess options on possible ideas for the project. I do not think all 3 would necessarily be true. Certainly not all 3 at the same time.

Some further (brain-storming) ideas.

Regarding the dimension hopping mentioned by Raiden, perhaps a way could be developed to combine dimension hopping with travel in real space. In AoA, the 14th Battlegroup was forced to return to their origin point before attempting to dimension hop in reverse to their home reality. If it was understood better, perhaps this could be accomplished at any system node.

If that works, it would allow UEF forces to potentially bypass any defenses the GTVA has on their end of the node, assuming they had enough forces to run the blockade on the Sol side. Logistically, they would not be able to field an extended campaign, but they could possibly hit the defenses blockading the node from an unexpected direction, or threaten GTVA infrastructure sufficiently to force a pullback. The GTVA would not be able to realistically predict just where and when they would show up.

[Deadly in a Shadow]

A few thoughts of my own...

-The project is a way to artifically induce temporary system jump nodes at a destination of your choice. Being able to outmaneuver the enemy would be a gigantic advantage the UEF could use as leverage.

-The project allows direct communication with Shivan and Vishnan intelligences, allowing actual negotiation to take place. But we've been down that particular road before.

-The project replicates the star-instability trick the shivans pulled on Capella. Given the general outlook of the UEF, I find this a slim option at best.

Ideas?

To clarify, regarding the above, those were just wild guess options on possible ideas for the project. I do not think all 3 would necessarily be true. Certainly not all 3 at the same time.

Some further (brain-storming) ideas.

Regarding the dimension hopping mentioned by Raiden, perhaps a way could be developed to combine dimension hopping with travel in real space. In AoA, the 14th Battlegroup was forced to return to their origin point before attempting to dimension hop in reverse to their home reality. If it was understood better, perhaps this could be accomplished at any system node.

If that works, it would allow UEF forces to potentially bypass any defenses the GTVA has on their end of the node, assuming they had enough forces to run the blockade on the Sol side. Logistically, they would not be able to field an extended campaign, but they could possibly hit the defenses blockading the node from an unexpected direction, or threaten GTVA infrastructure sufficiently to force a pullback. The GTVA would not be able to realistically predict just where and when they would show up.

I swear there's a lot of ships currently stationed in Delta-Serpentis. And the tevs in Sol would send some ships to prevent a blockade like that.

And if they appear somewhere, that wouldn't help a lot because there's still a lot of stuff in the GTVA-systems.

[-Norbert-]

The UEF can barely hold the line as it is. Sending ships away on the offensive within GTVA controlled space will leave them unable to defend themselfs. The moment Steele learns that the enemy forces are weakened he will pounce and the war is over for good, except for the UEF offensive force that might be able to stage a small scale guerillia war for a very short time before they run out of supplies. Even with two logistic ships the maintanance and supply intensive UEF ships won't be able to operate away from home for long.
Then there is the matter of public opinion. Right now I guess the GTVA citizens aren't too thrilled about the idea of a war with Sol. But if the UEF start to hit lightly defended targets right at the doorstep of those dissatisfied citizens, they might suddenly decide to support the GTVA fully in the war. Furthermore the infrastructure of the Terran and Vasudan parts of the GTVA is far to intertwined to hit only Terran targets and hacking off the Vasudans even further is the last thing the UEF wants to do right now.

[Woolie Wool]

Setting aside the typical mysticism often in BP, I would suggest the addition of beam weapons to UEF ships (as possible evidenced by a screenshot posted in the Celebration of Freespace thread showing a UEF capital ship that to me appears to be firing beam weapons rather than getting hit by them), or (slightly more unlikely) the addition of cap-ship shields to UEF ships.  While the first would even up the balance in terms of firepower, the shields would make UEF ships much more survivable to all except beam weapons.

That screenshot is mine, from Wings 2, not Blue Planet. It may use the Karuna model, but the Hyperion is definitely not a Karuna and not even in the FS universe.

[QuakeIV]

If you are fairly easily beating someone who is economically roughly equal to or superior to you, then they are building something big, and you have reason to be greatly concerned.

To my experience anyways.

[Trivial Psychic]

Setting aside the typical mysticism often in BP, I would suggest the addition of beam weapons to UEF ships (as possible evidenced by a screenshot posted in the Celebration of Freespace thread showing a UEF capital ship that to me appears to be firing beam weapons rather than getting hit by them), or (slightly more unlikely) the addition of cap-ship shields to UEF ships.  While the first would even up the balance in terms of firepower, the shields would make UEF ships much more survivable to all except beam weapons.

That screenshot is mine, from Wings 2, not Blue Planet. It may use the Karuna model, but the Hyperion is definitely not a Karuna and not even in the FS universe.

Well, that clears that up.  Thanks.

[niffiwan]

The UEF doesn't really do scorched earth.

Perhaps not in the initial stages of the war, but I think they do now - The Blade Itself refers to scorched earth protocols, I believe the Katana (or was it the Altan Orde?) was instructed to destroy the local station (including the civilians on it) rather than let it fall into the hands of the GTVA.

I also recall a reference to the scorched earth protocols failing in regard to Artemis station, which allowed the GTVA to capture it intact.

Of course, to me it seems like a big jump between these examples and blowing up the sun...

[Black Wolf]

Come on people, this isn't rocket science. The project has to be something to do with the Vishnans, otherwise the entirety of AoA becomes a big, irrelevant distraction, which would be out of character for the storytelling they've been doing so far. Think meta here. The point of AoA was to get Sam Bei, as a conduit to the Vishnans, over to the UEF.

"If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don't put it there."

[-Norbert-]

If WiH2 was the end of the series yes, but don't forget there will most likely be a Blue Planet 3. So the Project must not neccesarily be about the Vishnans.
It might be a mass exodus to some uncharted terretory, were the UEF can rebuild their perfect little world far away from the warmongers (or at least that would be the Elders argument/hope).
Or something like in X-Beyond the Frontier, were they open a jumpgate to a far away place, lure the enemy fleet through and close the door behind them, so to say, by destroying the gate, leaving their own "lure fleet" along with the enemy attackforce locked out.
While that wouldn't get rid of the GTVA threat for good, such a massive loss might very well leave the GTVA unable to fight the war for several month and might be enough to convince them to particiate in negotiations.

As for the quote: Maybe the point of pulling out the gun is, to have someone convince the would-be shooter not to shoot and instead give the gun up. Or to make someone smack him over the head from behind to prevent him from shooting.
What I'm trying to say is, while the gun in the example should serve some purpose, it doesn't have to be the most obvious one.

[Snail]

Byrne says "This war won't be won by force. it might not be won at all" OR SOMETHIng like that in the Visions mission. I think it's sakfe to say it's not the Icanus

[-Norbert-]

Technically, forcing the war to a standstill followed by a cease fire isn't winning, so it's not completely out of the question as far as rethorics go. Though I certainly agree with you on the "supership/superweapon scenario" being unlikely in the extreme.