[TopAce]

Yeah, in XWA, and XvT you see the ISD(1.6 km) bigger than the Orion(about 2 km) in FS. Each game handles sizes different way. I disagree with the same size of the Colossus and the ISD, The StarDest is smaller anyway than the Colossus.

[Sandwich]

Karma was meaning that the Colossus has an apparent size in FS2 similar to the apparent size of an ISD in XWA, nothing more.

[TopAce]

Understood

[StarGunner]

Originally posted by TopAce
Understood

WTF WAS THE HOLE LASERS CHACEING SHIPS THING!? THEY NEVER DID THAT! PEOPLE ARE JUST TOO PIKY ABOUT THIS MODS STUFF, I SAY **** EM DO IT YOUR WAY THEY DON'T LIKE IT, THEN THEY CAN MAKE THEIR OWN MOD!

Please lock this thread if you do it your own way like I said.

[TopAce]

Why did you quote my 'Understood' word in your post? What's your problem with me man? I said nothing.

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by Tar-Palantir


Some examples please? The Falcon has shields, can't see the generator on that. X-wing, Y-wing etc also have shields, can't see then generator on them either. Queens ships from Episode I has shields, also can't see their generator, which is shown to be a (barely) internal component. The point ift he globes are shield generators, no other shield ship has similar looking components.

Anyway, in this mod will the big ships be shielded?

I could be wrong, I haven't played it in a long time, but IIRC, half the ships in XWA had visible sheild gens.

IMO, it works more or less on the same principle as Freespace Capship subsystems. With a few bombs, you can take out an orions ability to use its weapons or engines. Is that poor engineering/designing? Not completely, it's just where the systems are located, and just like weapons fire can destroy the hull, it can destroy the subsystems located within the hull.

Now it's not like the Star Destroyer's shield Gens are able to be killed with a laser shot, or even one missle. They are armoured just as any of the other systems on the star destroyer. For another example, take the Radar dish on the Fenris or the Weapons system on any of the Freespace ships? Is it poor designing to not have the radar dish buried in the center of the ship or the weapons systems? Besides the fact that not everything can be buried within the hull, where other things take room, having things such as vulnerable turrets, shield gens, and sub systems makes the game more tactical and over all funner.

About the ship sizes, Sandy has a point in that the star Destroyers looked a lot bigger than they would in freespace. Maybe for a mod or the Star Wars project you could edit the field of view to reflect the sizes better?

About the turbolasers, from my understanding, it wasn't the speed of the bolt that made them hard to hit fighters, but their overall burlyness and the rate at which the turret tracks the fighter. I'm not sure how big a general Turbolaser turret is supposed to be, but from the Essential Guides, they dwarf the X-Wings. But I think Sandy is on the mark with the speed. Bassically anything fast than 1km/sec is lightning fast for FS though.

And does anybody know what Stargunner is talking about?

[TopAce]

All ships in SW have shield generators but many of them are so little(expect StarDests, and a few more ships), and cannot be hit only once every two billion shots(it's a bit exegeneration , but if you have a look at the Essential guides, you can see how small a shield gen of the X-wing is).

To Alan Bolte: I mean that all ships have LITTLE shield gens expect the Star Destroyers and a few more ships. Oh, that bracket was not in good place.

Updated.

[Alan Bolte]

Originally posted by TopAce
All ships in SW have shield generators(expect StarDests)

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by TopAce
About speed: Speed is interesting: Officially, a Star destroyer can have at most 60 MGLT speed, the Falcon is somehow about 100. In XWA, a StarDest has 6 MGLT and the Falcon is .... 104?(Not sure, perhaps I don't remember well). How do you want to chase down a Capital ship with 60 MGLT speed, target it with bombs, make accurate shots on turrets etc. ? I think the speed of the Star Destroyer is good at about 10-20 FreeSpace m/s.
About lasers. eh .... aiming lasers is a thing programmers would be able to do. I think a laser flying straight for x seconds and then disappears would be sufficent.

How do you want to do the special X-wing firing points? I mean the pair shooting of Upper Left-Bottom Right and Upper Right-Lower Left pair while using dual fire?

I've seen calculations that indicate 1 MGLT = 1 m/s.

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by Knight Templar

 

About the ship sizes, Sandy has a point in that the star Destroyers looked a lot bigger than they would in freespace. Maybe for a mod or the Star Wars project you could edit the field of view to reflect the sizes better?

Maybe. Although it would make an Apollo-sized ship look enormous.

And does anybody know what Stargunner is talking about?

Nope.

[Knight Templar]

we've also seen calculations that a turbolaser shot is compareable in force to a nuclear warhead.

Point being, it's all relative anyways. Meaning, however fast the Falcon is in FS, then the star destroyers shouldn't be all that slower. Unless there is AI conflictions of course.

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
we've also seen calculations that a turbolaser shot is compareable in force to a nuclear warhead.

Or greater. The big dorsal TLs dish out 200-gigaton blasts.  I would never have believed it until I stumbled across stardestroyer.net, but it's true. One blast from a heavy ISD TL would probably level an area of land the size of Maine.

[KARMA]

1mglt is close to 1 m/s
IIRC in XvT (i verified with a chronometer...) a TF has an official speed of 100 mglt but around 104 m/s in game (not sure, i should check my notes, but i remember it was little over 100m/s)
now, if this depend by XvT physic or the effective measue of 1mglt, i don't know, we are using in our mod 1mglt=1m/s (so to have 100 as top speed in the hud)
About stardestroyers speed, in ANH and ESB you see a stardestroyer chasing the falcon at sublight speed, this means that it is at least as fast as the falcon itself, no matter what official or semiofficial sources says. The point is that the falcon is far far more manuevrable than such a big ship

The points in my opinion are:
1- FS2 AI suck, fighters always collide with each others and have problems avoiding obstacles, i think that a Stardestroyer that goes at a fighter speed will simply crash everything in his run:), take in mind that in FS2 Capships are designed to just stay still and fire at whatever comes in the firing range, no more no less

2-people are used to see capships moving very slow in almost any space sim ever produced, and expecially in the SW space sims

3- i think that there are some strategic reasons to have star destroyers slow, for example it would be difficult to attack a Stardestroyer with an yw, when she goes FASTER than you ehehe

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by KARMA
1mglt is close to 1 m/s
IIRC in XvT (i verified with a chronometer...) a TF has an official speed of 100 mglt but around 104 m/s in game (not sure, i should check my notes, but i remember it was little over 100m/s)
now, if this depend by XvT physic or the effective measue of 1mglt, i don't know, we are using in our mod 1mglt=1m/s (so to have 100 as top speed in the hud)
About stardestroyers speed, in ANH and ESB you see a stardestroyer chasing the falcon at sublight speed, this means that it is at least as fast as the falcon itself, no matter what official or semiofficial sources says. The point is that the falcon is far far more manuevrable than such a big ship

The points in my opinion are:
1- FS2 AI suck, fighters always collide with each others and have problems avoiding obstacles, i think that a Stardestroyer that goes at a fighter speed will simply crash everything in his run:), take in mind that in FS2 Capships are designed to just stay still and fire at whatever comes in the firing range, no more no less

2-people are used to see capships moving very slow in almost any space sim ever produced, and expecially in the SW space sims

3- i think that there are some strategic reasons to have star destroyers slow, for example it would be difficult to attack a Stardestroyer with an yw, when she goes FASTER than you ehehe

Remember that in the movies that ships do not have maximum speeds. They could theoretically reach c given infinite time.

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by Woolie Wool


Or greater. The big dorsal TLs dish out 200-gigaton blasts.  I would never have believed it until I stumbled across stardestroyer.net, but it's true. One blast from a heavy ISD TL would probably level an area of land the size of Maine.

sorry, I forgot to add my [sarcasm] tags.

Seriously though, thats the most retarded Idea I've ever heard. I mean, if they could do that much damage, there would be little point in the deathstar, or the attack on hoth, and I doubt any of the ships would last longer than a few seconds with their shields down..

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by Knight Templar


sorry, I forgot to add my [sarcasm] tags.

Seriously though, thats the most retarded Idea I've ever heard. I mean, if they could do that much damage, there would be little point in the deathstar, or the attack on hoth, and I doubt any of the ships would last longer than a few seconds with their shields down..

First of all, a lone Star Destroyer can sterilize a planet in a procedure known as Base Delta Zero. The process only takes a few hours even with one ISD, several are often used to wreck the planet more quickly and increase the chance of eliminating all witnesses. However, the Death Star is designed to be far more terrifying than a BDZ attack. Turning a planet into a radioactive wasteland is one thing, blowing it up like a bomb is another.

Second, Hoth had a powerful theater shield that could block even heavy TL bolts. It would take days or weeks for the Imperial strike force to overwhelm the shield, so they sent in AT-ATs to get the job done quicker.

Third, SW ships have a crapload of armor. But I don't think it lasts very long under a barrage of heavy TL turrets.

[Knight Templar]

riight.. and a steady barage of turbolaserblasts at the said theorhetical power level from a few Destroyers wouldn't more or less blow the planet to pieces?

Hoth was an ice planet anyways. If they really wanted to **** things up, they could have just drown the rebels in their own base with a turbolaser shot or two apparently...

And they can't have that much armour. The Star Destroyers look kinda bare bones to me. Yeah, there's a good deal, but enough to deflect/absorb that much power condensed into a missle-sizeish bolt? Let alone the Corelian Corvettes.

[Woolie Wool]

I couldn't find the 200-gigaton energy estimates for heavy TLs, but this page states that a heavy TL bolt would pack several gigatons at the very LEAST. If there are variable power settings for TLs, 200-gigaton blasts may well be possible.

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
riight.. and a steady barage of turbolaserblasts at the said theorhetical power level from a few Destroyers wouldn't more or less blow the planet to pieces?

Hoth was an ice planet anyways. If they really wanted to **** things up, they could have just drown the rebels in their own base with a turbolaser shot or two apparently...

And they can't have that much armour. The Star Destroyers look kinda bare bones to me. Yeah, there's a good deal, but enough to deflect/absorb that much power condensed into a missle-sizeish bolt? Let alone the Corelian Corvettes.

Umm, the Corellian Corvette wasn't even fired at with heavy bolts. Heavy TLs probably would've destroyed it, and Vader wanted it intact, which is why the stormies didn't chuck thermal detonators into the vessel.


Also, a BDZ attack does NOT blow a planet to pieces. It merely renders it uninhabitable and often melts the crust.

[Alan Bolte]

200 Gigatons is a direct quote from the Attack of the Clones Incredible Cross Sections book. It's talking about the primary turbolaser batteries on an Acclamator-class military transport. Keep in mind that a laser is not an nuclear explosive. What we have here is a weapon of unknown composistion, but with some of the properties I have already mentioned, capable of delivering 8.4E11 J of energy over an unknown duration, probably well under one second. Also, I don't think some of you fully appreciate the difference in the amount of energy required to overcome the gravitational binding energy of a planet and shatter it as opposed to just melting the surface. Besides that, the reason the Death Star was so significant was not that it could destroy a planet, but that it could overcome the shielding surrounding every planet of any importance. Alderaan's shields were the best money could buy, and the DS just shot right through them. That's a message, ladies and gents.
Finally, as to Hoth, the real issue was that the only bombardment that would be possible even without the shield would be a few pinpoint strikes, followed by the same land assault we saw and capturing of fleeing ships. Keep in mind the Darth Vader's primary goal at Hoth was to capture his son alive.
SW armor is incredibly dense, far beyond current materials science. A low power fusion rocket would only scortch the hull. But a Star Destroyer's main batteries would destroy another ship with only one shot without the shields. For smaller ships, the shields wouldn't do any good, either.
Game mechanics are nothing more than game mechanics. If you feel XWA speeds are are what will work with FS2 the best (likely true, within limits), then we will use those, but real SW ships move in the land of Newtonian physics, high acceleration, and gravitaional control.