[Klaustrophobia]

From what i could decipher from some of these posts, I don't think the following argument has been made yet.

REGARDLESS of fuel limitations, nothing larger than a sub-atomic particle can get anywhere close to a tiny fraction of the speed of light.  Relativity is a *****. 

[The E]

Wrong. Given enough fuel, you can accelerate any mass to fractions of c.

However, in the FS universe, there is no indication of ships carrying the required amounts of fuel, or even the required acceleration capabilities.

[Klaustrophobia]

given infinite time (or force, one), yes, but i thought we were working from a relatively practical standpoint here. 

[General Battuta]

You don't need infinite time or force at all.

It's only accelerating to C itself that requires infinite energy.

[ChronoReverse]

With that said, the energy curve is exponential.  Getting up to 0.5c needs somewhat more energy than expected.  Getting up to 0.75c takes a large chunk more than expected.  Getting to 0.9c is an epic effort.


Furthermore, you need to carry fuel to provide thrust.  High thrust engines use up fuel inefficiently necessitating carrying a lot of heavy fuel which would require more thrust to overcome (vicious cycle).  Low thrust engines are efficient but it would take a long time to build up appreciable speed.

So while unlimited thrust or unlimited time means almost any fraction of c could be achieved, practically it's very difficult.

[Klaustrophobia]

With that said, the energy curve is exponential.  Getting up to 0.5c needs somewhat more energy than expected.  Getting up to 0.75c takes a large chunk more than expected.  Getting to 0.9c is an epic effort.


Furthermore, you need to carry fuel to provide thrust.  High thrust engines use up fuel inefficiently necessitating carrying a lot of heavy fuel which would require more thrust to overcome (vicious cycle).  Low thrust engines are efficient but it would take a long time to build up appreciable speed.

So while unlimited thrust or unlimited time means almost any fraction of c could be achieved, practically it's very difficult.

  even if we are using fusion for the energy source, we're still talking incredible mass. look at how big the sun is.

back in one of my physics classes we crunched the numbers for getting something like a pencil up to some appreciable fraction of c.  i don't remember the exact number, but it was some ungodly amount of energy.  now increase that by 50 orders of magnitude for a massive spaceship that would pretty much need to be a floating planet.

ok seriously.  why does the box bounce and hide what i'm typing like that, and how do i make it stop?

[IronForge]

Hmm actually maybe in FS physics (realistically it can be done) we can't bridge star systems, but theres no gurantee that in the middle of nowhere there will be a jumpnode.
Why do all jumpnodes lead to a SYSTEM and not to the middle of nowhere? Maybe a node to nowhere, and then a node back to known space (say beyond the nebula)? Keep sending probes, theres gotta be one

But anyway, what about lightspeed communication? If we did this eve online style or BSG cylon style its rather easy. Bring their memory to a new body.
But if we insist on keeping things 100% canon, I still don't see why they would be completely cut off.
As seen in several missions, notably escaping capella (where command tells you to get out, clearly from out system), apparently comms can bridge the gap.
Therefore, the families can opt to all enter cryogenic sleep and wake up when the portal is up. Or if that doesnt sound too appealing, at least chat. Sure, laggy and all but can be done.

Question about in system warp. You know, we press alt-j or whatever to end mission? can't that warp be used INTERSYSTEM? Or no?
Its slow, takes many many warps but gets the job done.

[General Battuta]

No. Read the techroom. Intrasystem warp only works near stars.

Intersystem comms is probably node-dependent.

[Thaeris]

Beaten by Battuta! Regardless:

Standard intersystem nodes seem to rely on gravity wells. Thus, logically, one would assume a node would lead you to a star system. However, perhaps some sort of deep-space interaction between distant celestial bodies could cause a node like annomaly to appear? As there's no definative evidence against it, there's no reason why it couldn't be used as a story element. Keep in mind that such an element will need a very good explanation, though, so be careful if you try to make that a case.

Intersystem jump drives for fighters were only available to the GTVA at the end of the First Shivan Incursion as far as we are told, so anything "post-Lucifer" of the fighter variety could make intersystem jumps without a destroyer.  

[IronForge]

Intersystem jumps without a destroyer. Sweet. So what about warps? Why those long boring escort missions? Why not get  the bastion to warp directly on top of the node?

[The E]

Because that's apparently what it takes. In some escort missions, you are escorting ships that do not have a intersystem drive, in the Bastion's case, it seems that exiting subspace directly on top of a node seems to be impossible (and yes, I know that that theory has holes. Sue me.).

[Thaeris]

This is my standing theory on jump nodes and jumps, both inter- and intrasystem:

A jump node is formed in the presence of a gravity well with a unique alignment to another system, thus creating a stable (or reasonably stable) extra-dimensional portal through which a vessel may cross to a different system.

Intrasystem jumps also rely on gravity wells, namely upon the cental celestial bodies (or body) of the system. The gravitational force of the combined system is necessary for successful usage of the lighter drives, but there is also a tolerance by which these can operate: although gravity wells are required for subspace flight, navigating a region (entering or exiting subspace) where there is an intense local gravitational presence like that from a planet, dense asteroid field, or intersystem jump node is difficult, dangerous, and often impossible for certain craft. This would explain why most ships cannot simply jump into a node, have problems with asteroid fields (in terms of jumping), etc. It also validates larger craft having propulsion systems like they do, as you may have to achive high orbit, or even break orbit around certain planets (or even stars...) before entering subspace an the system-level.

[MatthTheGeek]

Think also of the accuracy of the jump. It's highly likely that, especially during the GW-era, intra-system jumps aren't accurate enough to exit subspace at the exact coordinates you aimed at - lets say a few klicks away from your destination. So if you're lucky, you are nearly inside the node and you just have to wait for the drive to recharge before jumping through. And if you're not, you must travel all the way to it.

Assumption here : maybe the accuracy decreases with the distance you try to jump. For example, the Bastion arrived more than 10 klicks away from the Sol node when tracking the Lucifer because they jumped all the way from the Beta Aquilae node, across the whole system, in a single jump.

[TrashMan]

NITPICK: The fancy drives that enable fighters to jump from system to system are very expensive.
They aren0t equipped on fighter by default, but rather on a mission-specific basis for elite squadrons.

[Paladin327]

Theory: Jump nodes have a subspace field around them where high-mass objects (ships) are unable to jump until they reach a certain point as  biproduct of the subspace tunnel. much like the accretion disk around a black hole. lots of stuff around the outside, less stuff in the middle. this "stuff" disrupts subspace jumps and therefore ships must slowboat it to the nodes. however, i will admit this does not explain why you can jump away from close to a node...

next item: if you want to get from, lets say Alpha Centauri to Sol, why would you freeze yourself in cryostasis for 1000 years in the off chance someone else on the other side does the same, while scientists are studying the knossos portal and could possibly have one up and running within a few decades?

[MatthTheGeek]

next item: if you want to get from, lets say Alpha Centauri to Sol, why would you freeze yourself in cryostasis for 1000 years in the off chance someone else on the other side does the same, while scientists are studying the knossos portal and could possibly have one up and running within a few decades?

The topic was mainly about why they didn't slowboat before FS2, and so before knowing about knossoses

[Paladin327]

next item: if you want to get from, lets say Alpha Centauri to Sol, why would you freeze yourself in cryostasis for 1000 years in the off chance someone else on the other side does the same, while scientists are studying the knossos portal and could possibly have one up and running within a few decades?

The topic was mainly about why they didn't slowboat before FS2, and so before knowing about knossoses

aside from all the political infighting, reconstruction efforts, and civil war you mean?

[MatthTheGeek]

Hey, I'm not the one arguing here, I'm just reminding everyone what the topic was