Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Non-FreeSpace => MechCommander OmniTech => Topic started by: Starman01 on December 06, 2010, 04:04:22 am
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A battletech forum ? Here ?
Yes, you have seen right :) Thanks to the HLP Admins AND the obvious interest of the forum users in Battletech we received our very own Forum here.
But what are we doing ?
The Goal of the Mechcommander OmniTec mod is, to create an updated, and more easily moddable version of the good old Mechcommander 2. A game based in the universe of a great and fun franchise, a game with lots of tactical components and full of possibilities, which have unfortunately not being discovered by the Microsoft programmers, but I think no one is actually surprised about this. Our Goal is NOT, to release a new campaign, there are actually a lot of good campaigns already availabe, and some of us are also working on a new one. So content is certainly no problem, it’s the game that needs upgrading.
And after all, MS released the sourcecode of the game (which really surprised me when it happened), and that’s certainly something, I like MS for. I have started modding MC a few years back before the sourcecode came, but the possibilities where quite limited, and so I left it quickly (like most of the fans did, not to mention the Carver V campaign was rather boring storywise IMO)
But a few people remained, and even created some nice new additions, and after the SC came out, there has already been some scattered, but very good work being done throughout the web in the last few years, like new mechs, vehicles or gameplay changes. So that has restarted my modding will again, and I started to collect information. I found a few very talented modders that already made changes to the code, and made the proposal for a combined effort and it found some interest. There is already an alpha base available, and two of the three major code enhancements are making progress or are already half way done. Of course, there are a lot of more changes than only the three that could be done :)
So, here we are. The reason why we are here, and not somewhere else in the battletech forums is pretty simple. I LIKE HLP, been here for many years now, and that’s why I wanted to come here. A lot of talented people are around, it’s a good administrated site and one of the friendliest modding community I know. The noob friendly atmosphere that I have seen here in the past years is certainly something very special in this place and is actually pretty rare in the internet.
So, once again I say a open “Thank you” for the hosting at HLP, and welcome everyone to our subforum :) In the next days I will post a few links to the available campaigns so you people can reload your wish for mechbattles again.
Also, feel free to discuss here whatever battletech or mechcommander related topics you want, and we will try to give support as much as we are able to.
Do we need new people ? Of course ! What we need most of course are coders at the beginning, and later one definitly 2D and 3D Artist to add and enhance the content of the game. So, if you think you can offer something to our cause, feel free to contact me or anyone from my staff. As I said, we do not intend to provide campaigns in the first place, so we don’t have much need for mission designers right now, but that doesn’t mean that YOU should not create new missions. Simply start creating your campaign. The editor is actually quite easy, it’s certainly not more complicate than FRED, it’s just more limited ;)
So, that’ enough for introduction, back to work
Best regards
Starman
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Welcome guys (I know there are a number of familiar faces involved but what the heck), projects of like mindedness should stick together. I wish the project many years of success.
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So, questions I have are, what are your plans regarding the source code? Are you starting from scratch with the original MS Source release? Do you have an svn/git/whatever set up to host the code and coordinate efforts?
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The plan is, to enhance the existing code. Like I said, there is already done some small stuff by a few guys who will join me here shortly.
The 3 major problems are :
1) You can only add new objects by editing a few packed files, one dll, a pak file and some others, which mostly made it impossible in the last few years. That has now been done after the SC came out, and one of the guys is working on placing all info in a single and easy to edit csv file. It's sofar done and beta stage for mechs.
2) There is a limit, how many polygons the engine can display max per frame. This one is also already identified and breached.
3) The texture size is limited to 128x128 tga files, and the biggest mission ground map is 1536x1536. That must be raised too.
Besides that, there are more features planned, I hope that it will develop so that we can go for those too.
Example : A better logistic system, buying and selling components and a inventory for it, more like in MC1
We don't have a svn, I'm not sure we need one yet, depends how the project evolves. I'm not good in such technical stuff, I will even need help with the FTP :) I'm a modeller and 2D artist at limited scale, so my work is more based on content. We are very much at the beginning now, but I have the hope that a few more people will start helping us.
As for coordination, I have volounteered for doing that. I might not be a good coder, but at least I'm sort of a organizer :)
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Believe me, for any shared code work (and I assume that there's more than one coder involved in this), an SVN repository or any other form of version control software is absolutely necessary. Without it, you can't effectively coordinate efforts between coders.
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I know you are right, I will have to look where, and how to set one up. Like I said, I don't know how to, I'm not good in such things (maybe I'm already to old for such things :lol: ). For the beginning, I hope it's possible to place it on the ftp, and our both coders can communicate with each other who is working where. But that's certainly not a solution for the future.
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If you're in doubt about how to get an SVN setup going, I'd suggest inquiring with our newly-minted admin rev_posix, since he has been doling out SVN goodness to HLP projects for a while now :)
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Sounds good, thanks for the info :)
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Yep... SVN will increase your team efficiency by a lot. I can't imagine how we used to do without it. You'll definitely want the FTP too.
Interesting project, BTW! Wish I had more time, modeling and texturing mechs sounds like a lot of fun. At any rate good luck with it and welcome.
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First I thought there was something with my eyes when I saw your new avatar. Now I know they are fine ^_^
Nice to see you guys haveing a forum here. Makes it much easier for me to keep track on the development.
Good luck with your project.
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Thanks pal :)
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\o to any of my old DropShipCommand buddies, now we can confuse people with references to Major Linna and the Warders, right?
I'm going to assume you all have been poking at at Magic's Exodus campaign to see how he did it and that I don't need to tell you. :P
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You guys do realize you absolutely must have a Madcat, right? :)
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Eh, you realise that we already have one ? :) It was even in retail . Maybe some day, we can make higher detail stuff, though that's also something for the future :)
@ NGTM-1R : Magic will soon be here too :)
I've intended to point to his exodus campaign, but I didn't find a link. Gotta ask him tomorrow
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Ah, didn't exactly hear of this project till you appeared here. Might want to start an eyecandy thread then.
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Ah, didn't exactly hear of this project till you appeared here. Might want to start an eyecandy thread then.
Well, I mean...it's Mechcommander 2, that's a retail game, just like FS2 was.
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HTL Timberwolf? :P
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HTL Timberwolf? Tongue
I was waiting for the first post like this :lol:
Certainly not so soon, don't expect any 10K polygons Madcats too soon :p The ingame stuff is quite lowpoly. I intend to update them, but certainly not as much as freespace can. On the other hand, I often zoom in very close and play it like a 3rd person shooter (that's when the low textures really start to suck), maybe we will be able to make something to enhance the visual there (lod-system, etc.)
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Certainly not so soon, don't expect any 10K polygons Madcats too soon :p
Good, the Madcat should have at least 15-20k :P
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HTL Timberwolf? Tongue
I was waiting for the first post like this :lol:
Certainly not so soon, don't expect any 10K polygons Madcats too soon :p The ingame stuff is quite lowpoly. I intend to update them, but certainly not as much as freespace can. On the other hand, I often zoom in very close and play it like a 3rd person shooter (that's when the low textures really start to suck), maybe we will be able to make something to enhance the visual there (lod-system, etc.)
Well, whenever you get to modeling, I could probably lend a hand or two on updating the old models. If you need an example, there's a couple in the FSU board.
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Noted :)
But the first step is the texture limit. Even low poly models can look quite nice (remember the distance you see it ingame most of the time)
Here is an example :
The truck is below 600 poly, the gun wagon is only 450. The textures make them look good.
(http://wcsaga.hard-light.net/team/Starman/pics/mtctrl.jpg)
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If you can get normalmapping or bumpmapping running in the engine you can do a lot of the details via textures.
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Yes, but we are talking about a RTS game here, with lots of small units on the screen (remember, this is MechCOMMANDER, not MechWARRIOR :) ) I don't believe that normal or bumpmapping can do any good when it's just displayed on small units. Though I have to admit, I do not have experience with that kind of mapping
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That really depends on how closely you can zoom in on said units. Pretty much all modern RTS games use normals. It's easy to do - in this case just create bump maps of said object's textures, and convert it to normals either using photoshop plugin, command line tools, crazybump, or some other tool. Of course, the question of engine actually supporting those is another matter entirely, but normals can bring a lot to the table in terms of looks. Ideally you want specular, glow and normal map support.
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Yep. I am not certain what version of DirectX the engine is based on, but one should definitely look into doing shader support (if it doesn't have that already). If it's already using shaders, adding support for those maps is rather trivial.
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I can't tell you that, that's something only magic and rollin can answer. Of course I would like to have all of this, but don't forget, we are now, where SCP was 8 years before today. I think we must first concentrate on the basics :)
As for the zooming, you can actually zoom in very much, which would make a good mapping, texture size and even lodding necessary.
Take a look (and also the madcat for newman :p )
This is the max that is possible, but it will need another camera change (should be easy in a config file) to get the camera more horizontaly, the current angle is max :
http://wcsaga.hard-light.net/team/Starman/pics/screen0004.jpg
And I often like to play in that variant, where I can still move the camera horizontally
http://wcsaga.hard-light.net/team/Starman/pics/screen0003.jpg
So yes, new graphic would be sweat, but first we need a higher texture resolution :)
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That really depends on how closely you can zoom in on said units. Pretty much all modern RTS games use normals
Jup, best example I can think of is StarCraft2. Even if the units are pretty small it gives thems lots of details and "realism"
Sure I know that you have to do things step by step but I guess that as the project evolves you will most likely walk the path of SCP in adding stuff over the years.
To bad I sold my copy of MC2....
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Well, if it is easy, I would love to have normal maps, don't get me wrong :) But they will suck with 128x128 texture size :)
To bad I sold my copy of MC2....
It's free, just no multiplayer and video in it (atm) ;)
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I will see if I get a copy of it on ebay or something like that. I like videos with my games ^_^
Also its one of the Battletech games I just noticed missing in my collection.
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Well, then at least be sure to get the englisch version, you know how much the german voice overs sucked. And don't pay too much, THOSE videos were certainly not worth much :)
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The videos where not that good, I agree but without them its missing something.
Still I have other videos to do first...you know what I mean ^_^
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Yep :)
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Dammit, I wish I could help SOMEHOW, but the only thing I'm any good at is playing it. :sigh:
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Dammit, I wish I could help SOMEHOW, but the only thing I'm any good at is playing it. :sigh:
Get a modeling program and start learning the ropes. Modelers - good modelers - are always needed. The only way to become is to start. :D
Next, this is a question I've had for a while... What are the benefits of either OpenGL or DirectX? I've heard the pros and cons of both to a minor extent over the course of time, though from what I've heard to date I'd assume OpenGL to be the way to go in the long run. Is there a more authorative stance on this comparison?
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It depends on what you want to do. If you want the program to run on platforms other than Windows, you must use OpenGL. However, if multiplatform capability is not your goal, then using DirectX gives you the advantage of somewhat better driver-side support (Intel cards, for example, usually fare better with DirectX).
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I can't tell you that, that's something only magic and rollin can answer. Of course I would like to have all of this, but don't forget, we are now, where SCP was 8 years before today. I think we must first concentrate on the basics :)
As for the zooming, you can actually zoom in very much, which would make a good mapping, texture size and even lodding necessary.
Take a look (and also the madcat for newman :p )
This is the max that is possible, but it will need another camera change (should be easy in a config file) to get the camera more horizontaly, the current angle is max :
http://wcsaga.hard-light.net/team/Starman/pics/screen0004.jpg
And I often like to play in that variant, where I can still move the camera horizontally
http://wcsaga.hard-light.net/team/Starman/pics/screen0003.jpg
So yes, new graphic would be sweat, but first we need a higher texture resolution :)
Why using MadCat as an examle I made Timberwolf. It looks mush better and has higher num of polys.
I made all these models for mc2 around 2002-2003 and since then I made no models.
Right now I am trying to be only programmer, didnt look at all in "graphics" part of the game.
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Oh sweet, I didn't knew these are different models, I just thought it's a variant for giving it a new clan name :)
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MadCat and Timberwolf are the same Mech. One is the Inner Sphere name and the other is the Clan name for it.
IIRC MadCat was the combination of names from Marodeur and Catapault because the Timberwolf has the combined firepower of these two Mechs when it was first encountered.
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Dude, we know :)
He is talking about the mechs in the editor, there are two different models behind the two names :)
Besides, you are wrong ;)
Mad Cat is the name of the Clan Smoke Jaguar, Timber Wolf is from Clan Wolf. The Inner Sphere codenamed the mech Catapract
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Ok, didn't know about the editor but...
This is a MadCat/Timberwolf/Waldwolf -> http://kernspeicher.twobt.de/images/tro/mech/timberwolf.gif
and this is a Cataphract -> http://kernspeicher.twobt.de/images/tro/mech/cataphract.gif
Except I am missing something these are two very different mechs.
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Eh, you were right, sorry :) I just doublechecked
I had that in my memory from the books.
Good links btw, I haven't checked that page that much, I only found their very good starmaps. I use mostly this for reference :
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
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There was a time when I could tell you all Mechs and their configurations..now I am happy if I remeber the names correctly ^_^
I have just seen that there is a new TRO 3085. Man I loved the TROs. Pretty expansive, espacialy if you don't play anymore but I might still get this one.
PS: Found a pretty cool image showing how a classic map can be done in a very cool way
http://www.mechforce.de/1/cbt/img/traumlande/05.png
That makes me want to play again...anyone here knows a time machine or a cloneing device so I can have double the time per day?
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Mad Cat is the name of the Clan Smoke Jaguar, Timber Wolf is from Clan Wolf. The Inner Sphere codenamed the mech Catapract
Wait wat.
The Clans (ALL the Clans) use the "Timber Wolf" name. The IS reporting name (as coined by either Phelan Kell or Anastasius Focht, not sure right now) is "Mad Cat", as a portmanteau of the type designations of the Marauder (MAD) and Catapult (CAT).
The Cataphract is a Liao-designed heavy mech. Quite a different beast.
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That's nice :) I never was really interested in the board game, but that's because I didn't knew anyone who was willing to play that
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Starman allready stated that he mixed things up. Bet it comes from the sometimes bad translations in the german version. We allways had 3-4 names for the same Mech as the novels or TROs couldn't decide between using english only names or translate them.
I played the boardgame for quite some time but our group broke up. One is now in france, the other in the US and so on. So I am pretty much alone...the last man standing ^_^
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The Clans (ALL the Clans) use the "Timber Wolf" name.
Nope, I'm pretty sure that's not true :) Even in MW2 they had different names. And it goes for more mechs
Wolf Smoke Jaguar
Timber Wolf Mad Cat
Dire Wolf Daishi
Mad Dog Vulture
Maybe some clans share names, I'm not sure that Jade Falcon named all mechs differently, but I think they had a different for the Mad Dog
But the mix is correct, in the books it's described how Phelan Kell first encountered a Timber Wolf, and his targeting computer get's confused and swichted between Marauder (because of the arms) and Catapult (because of the ML on the shoulders)
Yeah, Lars is right, it could be a problem with german translation also, they are not always very reliable. I'm pretty sure the catapract error is somewhere in the german books, because I wondered that time why giving that cool mech such a bad name (think it was anastasios focht when he visited Clan Wolf when it was mentioned)
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I have the english Version of MW2...*goes opening his vault of awesome manuals*...here it says: Timber Wolf. One name only.
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Yes, forgot all I said, I just read it again in the wiki :) Those Alt-Names I mentioned above are the InnerSphere names (including vulture and Daishi), "The E" is right. Better I just shut up now, and go back to modelling :lol:
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Well bargend and done...or so they say ^_^
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Seila !
:lol:
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Speaking of Mechs and models...will you be using the Re-seen versions or the original?
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hm ? I don't know what you mean, please explain :)
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http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen
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Jup that is what I meant. The legal issues with the original mechs made it necessary to take them off the market and project Phoenix made new designs that are similar to the originals but different enough to get around the legal issues. These new-old mechs are also often refered to as "Re-seen"
Personaly I find some of them butt-ugly others are quite good looking.
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A few of those have already been added to the game, by Magic I think :)
Example are Warhammer, Marauder, Valkiere, Rifleman, Longbow and many more :)
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Using Unseen = bad idea, no matter how cool it would be. Harmony Gold is a buncha Dicks.
Also, model-wise, could we sync up the Mad Cat/Timberwolf (and any other Clan/IS designation) into one 'Mech model and file to avoid confusion?
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Surely, in the end :) We now have to sort things out. Remember, there isn't a really alpha base yet. I have just a collection of working and modded installations, containing new and old stuff. Of course, the lower poly stuff will be eradicated sooner or later, that will also free up the object limit.
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Using Unseen = bad idea, no matter how cool it would be. Harmony Gold is a buncha Dicks.
Also, model-wise, could we sync up the Mad Cat/Timberwolf (and any other Clan/IS designation) into one 'Mech model and file to avoid confusion?
When has it been done otherwise, out of curiosity?
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What do you mean ? The new mechs ? I think magic made them somewhere between 2002 and 2005
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MechAssault divided all the 'Mechs into two variants of the same model with different weapons; Clan/IS name for the Clan 'Mechs, and IIRC, also a few IS Mechs(they called the alternate version of the Catapult, the Bowman (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Bowman), which is...kind of similar).
The Unseen are really only a problem if you're either selling or otherwise 'official', to my knowledge.
MekTek had their mod to add the unseen Marauder, Marauder II, Archer, Warhammer, Shadow Hawk, and Wasp(possibly more, but don't spring to mind) in MW4: Mercs, many of them for years, until they were tapped to distribute MW4: Mercs for free, which forced them to become legally 'official' entities, rather than just an independent modding group.
Also, it's worth noting that only the Macross-derived 'Mechs (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen#From_Macross) are now considered Unseen.
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HM, I still don't get the unseen stuff. Some of the mechs mentioned are pretty much "canon" actually.
The warhammer, valkyire, Marauder and Marauder II are mentioned in the books. The longbow has already an appearance in MW4 Mercs and the Warhammer is in MW 5 (if that wasn't a hoak). For the rest, what I don't know from the books or game, I do not really want to have in the game, though if enough place is there, I don't mind too much, actually I don't have to use them :)
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Using Unseen = bad idea, no matter how cool it would be. Harmony Gold is a buncha Dicks.
Also, model-wise, could we sync up the Mad Cat/Timberwolf (and any other Clan/IS designation) into one 'Mech model and file to avoid confusion?
I renamed all mc2 clan mechs to clan names. The Timberwolf model I made, uses that name for model files because I didnt wont to replace original Madcat model made by the mc2 dev team. Although I like Timberwolf, i didnt like the original model, so I made it a little better. Thats the only reason we have two models of the same mech.
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HM, I still don't get the unseen stuff. Some of the mechs mentioned are pretty much "canon" actually.
It's a copyright issue on the images originally used that made it a problem, not the 'Mechs themselves. Trust me, if you've seen it in an official releast of anything BattleTech related in the last 20 years (with a few exceptions), it's not the Unseen version. Shouldn't be a problem (and, as pointed out upthread, would only be a problem if this were an officially licensed product anyway).
I renamed all mc2 clan mechs to clan names.
You sir just earned 50 cool points.
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It's a copyright issue on the images originally used that made it a problem, not the 'Mechs themselves. Trust me, if you've seen it in an official releast of anything BattleTech related in the last 20 years (with a few exceptions), it's not the Unseen version.
Basically, a number of the books still have the RFL-3N in the back.
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Thats because they where most likely printed before the legal issues came up.
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@Starman,
MW5 apparently is not a hoax, but there has been bugger all info post video because the video features a warhammer, and because it looks like the original warhammer design (not a reimage) Harmony Gold USA saw it and took legal action because the original warhammer look is still their IP.
Though there are small scraps of info here and there about development coming out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MechWarrior_%28reboot%29
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Yeah, the problem is that for BT's 25th anniversary, there was this huge, coordinated series of surprises('MechWarrior 3015', MechWarrior 4: Mercenaries free, and the release of all the Unseen(along with the 25th Anniversary Box Set, which was going to include Unseen minis, and the 25 Years of Art and Fiction book)).
The fandom rejoiced; there was singing and dancing in the forums and streets. Then HG apparently notified Catalyst/Topps that all their legal ducks were not, in fact, all in a row, pretty much derailing the party. The Art and Fiction book was hastily scrubbed of Macross-derived Unseen(though there were PDFs of the original version sold before things came to light), the 25th Anniversary Box Set has nearly become the 26th Anniversary Box Set due to related setbacks, and, HG's cease and desist against the MW 3015 trailer has probably scared off the potential publishers that Smith and Tinker/Piranha Games were hoping to attract.
And MS's legal dept. dragged out MW4 free for almost a year(but we(probably?) can't blame HG for that).
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To clarify, the Mechs affected by the whole "Unseen" debacle are currently just the ones from Macross, and only their Macross-derived artwork. Redesigns like that of Project Phoenix, or Mektek's version of the Rifleman, don't fall under that category.
- Wasp
- Stinger
- Valkyrie
- Phoenix Hawk
- Rifleman
- Crusader
- Archer
- Warhammer
- Marauder
- Longbow (0-series only, the 7 and 12 series, from 3058/Mercs4 and Project Phoenix respectively, are fine)
- Marauder II
Apparently the Osts and IICs no longer fall into the "verboten" category either, since RS3085u-PP shows their artwork, and the Dougram/Crusher Joe designs (LCT, SHD, WVR, GRF, SCP, TDR, GOL, BLR) are now okay too, since Harmony Gold doesn't hold the license to those images.
As this is a fan-made not-for-profit production, though, we should be fine with using the remaining Unseens anyway. Mektek got away with it in the Mekpaks for those very reasons.
Also, hi! :D
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This is amazing, truly truly incredible. I think HLP is beginning to earn a reputation as the place where amazing games of old come to be reborn.
Long live the modders, coders and die hard fans, wonderful bastards all.
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This is amazing, truly truly incredible. I think HLP is beginning to earn a reputation as the place where amazing games of old come to be reborn.
Long live the modders, coders and die hard fans, wonderful bastards all.
YEAH!!!
wait... what bastards?
I mean... YEAH! :p