[FreeSpaceFreak]

First of all, hats off to the team. You have arguably put an admirable amount of effort into Tenebra, and I have read nothing but positive reviews so far. It seems that, for the majority of players, you have hit the nail on the head with your design decisions. That said, it's nigh impossible to please everyone - so here I'll voice my disgruntled minority opinion

Blue Planet forgot Blue Planet
aka FSF's Tenebra review

Back in 2007, when Age of Aquarius was first released, it was immediately a smash hit. It was the first mod to bring a truly epic (in the true sense of the word) story into FreeSpace, a greater-than-life story of hope, despair, courage, self-sacrifice, perseverance, forgiveness - and even love. It was, if you will, the Lord of the Rings of FreeSpace modding. It was, and still is, a compelling mod that really draws its players in. After the climax that was Universal Truth (yes, that title was in AoA too) and the second passage through the Sol node, who didn't feel the rush of joy and relief when that non-GTVA, but definitely Terran frigate showed up and hailed us? Only to have all of our hopes and dreams shattered, no, pulverized mere moments later. That sequence left me in shock and horror for the rest of the day.

Then came the first release of War in Heaven. If AoA was the Lord of the Rings of FreeSpace modding, WiH:R1 was the Saving Private Ryan, the War Horse, the - damn, I don't watch enough war movies to make a proper comparison. Where AoA was a story of mystery and 'divine' intervention ('divine' meaning Kardashev type 3), WiH:R1 was a decidedly human story of war and the horrors it brings. What it did have in common with AoA, though, was the immersion into the story, now even more accentuated by the splendid narrations of life outside the cockpit. I have vivid memories of Kassim collapsing under the emotions, but also of zero-G sparring in a storage room, and of course paragliding through Valles Marineris. I felt part of the story. I felt the rush of relief when those two Jupiter Fleet Narayanas chased the Atreus from Rheza Station (in Darkest Hour). The triumph when we captured the GTL Agincourt. The despair when we found out how Steele was pulling the Vasudans into the war. Hell, I actually cried while the Indus was falling into the sun. And after playing, I had the feeling that I had caught a tiny glimpse - first-hand - of what a real war is like.

Then, War in Heaven: Tenebra. Continuing the movie analogies, this mod would best be compared with... any Michael Bay movie. No character development? Check. Contrived coincidences? Check. Gratuitous pyrotechnics? Check. Whimsical decisions about the fate of thousands? Check. Saving the goddamn Earth? Check! Now, the tropes in themselves would be acceptable, if there was a good storyline to back them up... but I missed that, it was nowhere near the quality of the previous releases. Let's do a thought experiment. Take a campaign in mind, keep its first and last mission the same, and shuffle all the others in random order. Try this with AoA or WiH:R1; their carefully constructed plotlines collapse like a house of cards. Now try it on Tenebra... does it make a difference? Does it really? Don't you have the feeling that, for instance, the Gef habitat mission could have been put somewhere else, or even removed entirely without affecting the story whatsoever?

Which brings me to my main gripe about Tenebra. It is arguably the most 'unconventional' Blue Planet yet: the player flies capships, commands fleets, organizes defences, and much more. Oh it's fun, definitely, and admirably well-executed... but I feel all this came to the detriment of the story. Hell, I'm willing to go out on a limb and state that the only missions that truly advanced the story were the first and the last ones. The first one to set the 'special ops' scene, and Universal Truth because it contains all the story of the entire act, as if to make up for the lack of plot in the previous missions. (Seriously, that was a *lot* of information in a *very* short time...)

And along with the story, out went that immersion, those grand emotions from the previous releases. We hardly get to know our wingmen at all - did you notice they are never even properly introduced? Noemi starts bad-mouthing to - was it Vidaura? - right in the first Dreamscape, and I have no idea why. Daily life on the Masyaf was a mystery too. Apart from a few allusions to showers and barbecues, all we get to see is the Dreamscape and our cockpit. Surely the Fedayeen are people too? They must have their own personalities, gripes, conflicts, inside jokes, funny walks for all I care. So why don't we get a taste of it? The Dreamscape was interesting, but not worth a fraction of the vivid narrations in WiH:R1. Honestly, even retail FS2 did a better job of drawing the player in - in Tenebra, I really felt as if I was fighting someone else's war.

Overall, I would rate Tenebra as the worst Blue Planet yet. In my eyes, the best part of Blue Planet was always its epic (in the true sense of the word) storyline, and its supreme narration that really draws the player in. In Tenebra, it appears as if Blue Planet has forgotten this critical element of Blue Planet. Tenebra did a very impressive job of combining capship command, turret defence and real-time strategy with our beloved old space-sim - but still I hope that the next release will return to the forefront what made the mod so great: its story.

[SaltyWaffles]

Some fair criticism, but I think it's a little harsh at some points. Noemi definitely undergoes character development throughout the story, as does Falconer at the least, and we get more insight into a number of characters--Calder, Mandho, Samuel, Steele, Lopez, Ken, and more. I also think that, while the story in Tenebra was very disjointed, there was a lot there, even if it was a lot more subtle and buried around.

Your criticism about the missions being scrambled in order (aside from the first and last) is what probably resonates with me the most. One Future comes out of nowhere, with a premise that relies on setting details/mechanics that were never even foreshadowed before, and with very little connection to the rest of the plot or setting (it's just so...isolated. It could have been stuck in at any point.). That said, I think at least some of the reason behind this is that Tenebra was originally designed to be 'choose-your-own-order', with the dreamscape being the hub world connecting it all. In the end, they decided to switch back to a more ordered format, but the effects are still noticeable.

About the Michael Bay point: yes, for the most part, it did kind of give that feeling. I think it was more that it was just overwhelming--all high-octane epic action, all the time--every mission introduces a slew of new gameplay mechanics, mentalities, challenges, tools, and objective types. Her Finest Hour was laughably overwhelming to me even before I finished the briefing, but when I started the mission just to get an idea of what I'd be dealing with, I decided to call it quits for the day and watch a playthrough of the mission first. One Future, again, seems to be the biggest culprit to me: out of nowhere, isolated, unprecedented in scale and consequences, most bizarre setup (you fly a small cruiser that flies like a bomber, is shielded, and has controllable weapon banks, against a unique destroyer and several wings of fighters in front of a *giant* asteroid on a strict time limit), and most...flat (you, alone, fighting while grossly outnumbered in a super-advanced prototype, under a very strict time limit to save the world from a giant explosion of sorts from insane eco-terrorists, with threading the needle with a *cruiser* in said giant asteroid to blow up the reactor in its core as one of the two main mission paths...).

I feel, though, that Everything Is Permitted was on par with the first mission in both feel and plot relevance. Her Finest Hour had a number of very satisfying, emotional continuations (and conclusions) to some of the biggest threads left hanging in WiH1, even if they were buried in a mission jam-packed with the kitchen sink (all at once).

I really liked the Dreamscape, despite a few minor nitpicks, for its amazing atmosphere (especially the music), plot-driving qualities, characterization and character-development, and just how much it made me think about many things. It tied the disjointed missions together rather impressively for a single hub mission.

--

I suppose part of the problem with the smaller number of major characters introduced in Tenebra is that they're mysteries at their core until the end of the story, so it doesn't feel like we really get to know them until it's all over (and Tenebra itself is not that long). It also doesn't help that One Future doesn't include them at all.

--I have to cut this short, sorry.

[Mars]

I think the point of Tenebra is that humanity (characters) is/are becoming something rather beside the point.

[An4ximandros]

 The thing about Tenebra... it was a bad idea to release it early. They should have waited until acts 4 and 5 were done. It's very clear to me that they were meant to be interwoven, and that your actions among the fedayeen are meant to have consequences later on the campaign. The GEF mission seems to be tied to weather or not you will be able to recruit the less extremist GEF cells, the results of the convoy mission seem like they will affect GTA - VN relations in Sol, 'Her Finest Hour' will decide if you may or may not have a subversive element among GTVA personnel thanks to Lopez (or vice-versa?) The only mission I can see as standalone is therefore the assassination.

One thing I do agree with is the Michael Bay factor.

[rubixcube]

I disagree, Micheal Bay Factor to me is mindless action, Tenebra is most certainly not mindless action.

[bigchunk1]

You make some good points, but comparing WIH:2 to Michael Bay is pretty rough. I don't think a michael bay film ever really gets into themes of psychological warfare. Michael bay is more of a cheesy military triumph driven largely by superb special effects, forced humor, and that unbelievable romance. Though, I will admit the comet mission is somewhat Michael Bay esque the way it gets thrown in. But really, can't we forgive those sort of moments in a video game?

The main reason I think there is a percieved lack of continuity in the game is that the story does not get moved forward in the missions themselves. Previous Blue Planet missions left the player floating and reading dialogue which moved the story forward. The player was not really involved. In this release, the player is steeped in something that I have found lacking in other mods, gameplay! Every mission had a wildly unique and creative mechanic for the player to learn and strategise with. This is what I believe the focus of the new release was, and it in my mind was pulled off well.

Story is not so much event driven in this release as much as it reveals the truths of the gameworld which have persisted through the first two releases. We find out the true nature of the vishnans, why the Eldar betrayed her people, we discover the Fedayeen, and much more.

Given all the events which have transpired in the previous releases, I don't believe this method of story telling is such a bad idea. It also offers the opportunity for some unique gameplay mechanics which previously would have been undoable.

[docfu]

Ahh, you mean the asteroid, right?

I'm not sure what the dev team was thinking, but from an outside perspective I would venture the conversation went like this:

"We have a nice model of a hollow asteroid."
"Can you blow it up?"
"Sure."
"GTVA would never use an asteroid to attack the UEF...that'd be too far fetched."
"Uh, ok, lets bring in a third party of fanatics to do that sort of thing. Fanatics always do that sort of thing."
"What does this have to do with BP?"
"Quit asking stupid questions. We have a model of an asteroid, and we are going to blow it up."



(Don't take it personally, guys!)

[Luis Dias]

Even Mass Effect did that side story, so I don't really know what the fuss is all about.

[Crybertrance]

Even Mass Effect did that side story, so I don't really know what the fuss is all about.

Unless we see some kind of back-story thing that originally meant to tie the asteroid thing into acts 4 and 5, the whole Asteroid Incident seems pretty far-fetched.

I mean, uptill now we've only seen the Gefs using outdated civillian fighters, Acts 1&2 portraying them as fanatics with no refinement whatsoever with regards to tactics, ships, weapons, etc. And all of a sudden, BAM! they have a huge asteroid that can apparently do a subspace jump to Earth? and collide, leaving all life on Earth destroyed? Really? like wtf!??! 

The first time I actually played that mission; I waited to see if the thing would actually jump...It was so ridiculous.

How can that asteroid even jump? Its larger in volume than any ship we've seen so far, It would require much more energy to jump it to subspace than from that puny Subspace gate and motivator (compared to its size)... I can also forgive the fact that the Gefs have a frikken Destroyer which has not been referenced anytime before...But the whole thing about "Fanatics/Terrorists using an asteroid to wipe all life off a planet" for mundane reasons is getting really old and ridiculous especially for a rich story like BP's. 
 
[/rant]

dont get mad at me....

[Luis Dias]

Well I won't. I see your point. It came out of nowhere for me too.

[MatthTheGeek]

I mean, uptill now we've only seen the Gefs using outdated civillian fighters, Acts 1&2 portraying them as fanatics with no refinement whatsoever with regards to tactics, ships, weapons, etc.

Scimitar is nowhere near outdated for people that don't have regular access to military suppliers. It would probably be somewhere near or above top-of-the-line on the civilian market. The Gefs are extremely well-equipped for a paramilitary faction. I mean, dude, they had frikkin' Warhammers in act2. Nuclear. Warheads. And the rest of their armament is definitely military-grade. And their tactics have kept them alive for decades despite all the might of Third Fleet trying to take em out.

I think players underestimate the Gefs because we never see them win in act1/2 and we mostly see them use a few fighters. They were already a major thorn in the UEF foot before the war, and they're even more so now, without Third Fleet to crack down on them and with all the bonus supply gifts they received from both GTVI and UEF Intelligence in hope to have them pick sides in the war.

They wouldn't have bothered to convince them to pick sides if they weren't gonna be significant assets in the war.

And all of a sudden, BAM! they have a huge asteroid that can apparently do a subspace jump to Earth? and collide, leaving all life on Earth destroyed? Really? like wtf!??! 

Gefs have always been living in asteroids and comets. Even in real life, the Kepler belt is full of asteroids more than large enough to cause a planetary extinction event. I don't see what's surprising here.

How can that asteroid even jump? Its larger in volume than any ship we've seen so far, It would require much more energy to jump it to subspace than from that puny Subspace gate and motivator (compared to its size)...

Oooh, glad to see you're a subspace expert. I bet the Gefs could use someone to tell them their plan isn't actually physically possible. Who knows, maybe it could be one more way to beat that mission ! Gotta love having many ways to beat a mission.

[Phantom Hoover]

Ahh, you mean the asteroid, right?

I'm not sure what the dev team was thinking, but from an outside perspective I would venture the conversation went like this:

"We have a nice model of a hollow asteroid."
"Can you blow it up?"
"Sure."
"GTVA would never use an asteroid to attack the UEF...that'd be too far fetched."
"Uh, ok, lets bring in a third party of fanatics to do that sort of thing. Fanatics always do that sort of thing."
"What does this have to do with BP?"
"Quit asking stupid questions. We have a model of an asteroid, and we are going to blow it up."



(Don't take it personally, guys!)

yeah it was really lazy how they introduced the gaian effort and kostadin cell in that mission without any mention or exploration in the previous story-- wait what

[Ravenholme]

Ahh, you mean the asteroid, right?

I'm not sure what the dev team was thinking, but from an outside perspective I would venture the conversation went like this:

"We have a nice model of a hollow asteroid."
"Can you blow it up?"
"Sure."
"GTVA would never use an asteroid to attack the UEF...that'd be too far fetched."
"Uh, ok, lets bring in a third party of fanatics to do that sort of thing. Fanatics always do that sort of thing."
"What does this have to do with BP?"
"Quit asking stupid questions. We have a model of an asteroid, and we are going to blow it up."



(Don't take it personally, guys!)

yeah it was really lazy how they introduced the gaian effort and kostadin cell in that mission without any mention or exploration in the previous story-- wait what

My response exactly. Kostadin Cell, and the Gaian Effort's way of living has been mentioned since Act 1. There has been lots of dialogue about just what they do, how they live, and how they achieve that. Saying this came out of nowhere is like saying the Taliban turning into an extremist group was totally an unforseen consequence when the US started arming them to fight the russians in Afghanistan.

I'm afraid I really don't agree with much of your criticism, just that about the constant introduction of new gameplay features, and for me that was actually a plus.

[Crybertrance]

And all of a sudden, BAM! they have a huge asteroid that can apparently do a subspace jump to Earth? and collide, leaving all life on Earth destroyed? Really? like wtf!??! 

Gefs have always been living in asteroids and comets. Even in real life, the Kepler belt is full of asteroids more than large enough to cause a planetary extinction event. I don't see what's surprising here.

You are not getting my point! I'm surprised that they suddenly (atleast it appears to the player like that) have this capability to launch an omfghugeassasteroid into subspace on an attack vector to Earth!

Oooh, glad to see you're a subspace expert. I bet the Gefs could use someone to tell them their plan isn't actually physically possible. Who knows, maybe it could be one more way to beat that mission !  Gotta love having many ways to beat a mission.

Special Fedayeen Agent Subspace (Supreme) Expert Crybertrance reporting in sir!

[MatthTheGeek]

That asteroid is their habitat, their very home, and houses thousands of people. They've habited it for potentially decades. They didn't want to loose it, and they've had all the time to search for ways to not have it be just a stationary target should it be discovered.

I doubt moving things this large through subspace is actually any kind of technological feat. It's just not something any of the other factions ever needed to do. Equipping the asteroid for subspace is also probably not cheap, but after years of raiding UEF shipping lanes and all the resources they've had to mine in the Kuiper belt (as well as all Kostadin gained by harassing other Gef cells), I'm pretty sure they didn't have any insurmountable trouble finding all the resources needed for that project.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

yadda yadda Gefs yadda yadda

Guys, the plausibility of the asteroid mission was not the point I was trying to make. What I'm saying is that Tenebra has taken a completely different direction from previous BP releases, and that IMHO this change was not for the best.

You make some good points, but comparing WIH:2 to Michael Bay is pretty rough.

I wasn't quite happy with the analogy either, but it's the best I could think of. To be more accurate: Tenebra essentially felt like a technology demonstrator, a proof-of-concept campaign, with one big plot exposition mission at the end to make it relevant to the BP continuity. Oh I know, the war has taken significant turns: Tev-Vasudan relations deteriorated, the Kostadin cell is all but wiped out, the UEF defeated the Carthage and took back Neptune - but all that felt very anticlimactic, it didn't "stick". Hardly any consideration is given to the UEF's major victories in this campaign. For each of these events, a single mission was all it took! "Oh look, we vanquished the Carthage and took back Neptune. Nice. Now lemme go back to the Dreamscape." There was no buildup, no aftermath, nothing. Compare that to the long chase of the Duke in AoA, the heroic sacrifice of the Nelson in WiH (which was still being talked about six missions later), and the battle that developed around the Agincourt! See, those were memorable events, developing across the timespan of several missions. But in Tenebra? Nothing of the kind.

"But the effects will become apparent in later missions!" you say. "See, when you freed the Gefs in mission 1, you had to face more opposition around the asteroid!" Is that a good thing? Really? Were you waiting for a campaign that does that? At best, it leads to a much bigger playtesting effort, wasting dev time which could have been much better spent. At worst, I need to replay the entire frickin' campaign because a decision I made earlier makes a later mission too hard to complete. "But don't you feel you take decisions much more consciously now?" No, actually I don't. I can't go extrapolating the possible effects of every single decision I make - I'm not a chess computer, I'm a fighter pilot!

Now I have no problems with proof-of-concept campaigns (I can only applaud The Blade Itself), but please - please - not at the expense of the story. If people want different gameplay, there's plenty more possibilities out there - hell, some are even set in the BP universe! What makes Blue Planet unique - IMHO - is its storyline worth publication, and storytelling that makes the player part of it. Those are BP's irreplaceable assets, and I hope that future releases will again use them to their full power.

[FIZ]

There was some proof of concept work in this campaign, I agree.  However I think Tenebra was an important release for that.  A lot of new things happened all of the sudden, but you gotta remember this is like 30 missions into the arc.  Yes, some things should be ironed out, but repetitive gameplay has for the most part been avoided with outstanding success with an outstanding but spartan release of new assets.  How many people here could say they enjoyed the flow of Sync?  (I immensely enjoyed Sync, it was a completely different animal and I believe a proof of concept for Transcend?)   

3-6 years down the road, when the story is told and the only newcomers are going to be some correspondent of a fan of the Freespace, I think Tenebra will be a master stroke that breaks the pace of things in BP.  To say 'the groundwork has been laid' would be an understatement.  If no mission in act IV or V has not already been restructured if not completely restarted based on the public release of Act III, I'd be surprised.

So, should I argue for more BP elixir to be released as soon as it is ready, or counter argue (and shoot myself in the foot) that without the full scope, playing one episode at once is just an unbearable tease?  I'm gonna have to trust the developers on this one.

[crizza]

Wait...didn't I mention a headshot asteroid at some point?
I liked the mission, and I even wasn't surprised, given the fact that the GEF are some kind of crazy asteroid nomads.

[FIZ]

Reread the thread again, and the argument FSF makes about the Carthage seems wrong to me.  As far as story goes, Carthage made the kill list pretty early in the fiction viewer.  The dreamscape and discussion on bringing the Carthage down seemed important and very Laporte centered.  The fact that it was 'take 2' on the Carthage was even lampshaded.  The Fedayeen 'advice' at the start of 'Her Finest Hour' also seemed to blur the line of subconscious and reality.  How many special operations forces can you think of would actually have every member of the team go into an operation harboring a differing opinion on where to begin?  Even Alpha 1's/ Laporte's thought going in is Carthago Delende Est, not voiced by any squad member, but felt by the player.

[Spoon]

What I'm saying is that Tenebra has taken a completely different direction from previous BP releases, and that IMHO this change was not for the best.

Well I think you are wrong.