Author Topic: GTI vs. NTF  (Read 5100 times)

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Offline CT27

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Which organization would you say was morally worse:  the GTI (Silent Threat/ST:R) or the NTF?



 

Offline headdie

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NTF

While both were traitors the NTF as a whole had no issues slaughtering vast numbers of non combattants just because they were there.
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Offline CT27

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What was the GTI's ultimate goal regarding the Vasudans?

 

Offline headdie

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In canon, unknown iirc

FS:ST the rogue element of the GTI was about power within the GTA, cant say about STR as not played it.
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Offline Goober5000

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cant say about STR as not played it.

wut

You should play it.

 

Offline headdie

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Offline riomaki

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The NTF poses the more direct, immediate threat.  They are radicals who aren't afraid to kill anything that gets in their way.

The GTI is immoral, but in a more sinister way.  A contemporary comparison to the GTI would be if the NSA launched a coup.   We'll never know the full extent of the GTI's plans.  But, I think you could extrapolate based on the NSA comparison how nasty they could become if they wanted to be.

In hindsight, Silent Threat would have been a lot more interesting if it pursued a conspiracy angle rather than portraying the GTI as a bunch of angry guys who happened to build a giant destroyer.  That doesn't strike me as how an intelligence agency would defect.  They wouldn't take things by blunt force - they'd take them through manipulation.  Hence, the silent threat.   ;7
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 11:26:18 am by riomaki »

 

Offline Goober5000

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In hindsight, Silent Threat would have been a lot more interesting if it pursued a conspiracy angle rather than portraying the GTI as a bunch of angry guys who happened to build a giant destroyer.  That doesn't strike me as how an intelligence agency would defect.  They wouldn't take things by blunt force - they'd take them through manipulation.  Hence, the silent threat.   ;7

You need to play Silent Threat: Reborn.  It is Silent Threat, but with FS2 production values. :D

(You might be interested to know that it is compatible with retail FS2. :p)

 

Offline CT27

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Spoiler:
In ST:R it seemed the GTI wanted to "win" the war with the Vasudans.

However, they didn't explicitly target Vasudan civilians did they?  I only remember them attacking Vasudan military targets.

Spoiler'ed.  Solrazor (riomaki) hasn't played ST:R yet. :D   // G5K
« Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 10:46:58 pm by Goober5000 »

 

Offline Goober5000

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Yeah, in ST:R, the GTI didn't target Vasudan civilians.  (Though they accepted them as collateral damage if they happened to be associated with a military target.)

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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In hindsight, Silent Threat would have been a lot more interesting if it pursued a conspiracy angle rather than portraying the GTI as a bunch of angry guys who happened to build a giant destroyer.  That doesn't strike me as how an intelligence agency would defect.  They wouldn't take things by blunt force - they'd take them through manipulation.  Hence, the silent threat.   ;7

They're trying to overthrow not one but two (because the Vasudans aren't going to take this sitting down) governments that are only being held together by the military need to confront an existential threat in the Shivans, who have both been in a state of war for at least a decade and a half at this point, and who have both have their capitals lost or destroyed by a decapitation strike within the last year.

Even if they seize control of the leadership or the capitals through stealth, they can't really expect everyone else to just roll over for them. These are people who have learned the value of decentralized control and commanders operating on their own initiative the hard way, who are primed and ready to take on anything that they perceive as a threat. The first mission of Silent Threat, where you essentially commit mass-murder to preserve the alliance with the Vasudans and not a single pilot in your unit even blinks, and you as a brand-new transfer to the squadron are totally trusted to go along with this, is illustrative of the level of commitment here.

At some point GTI is going to need their superdestroyer to pull this off, no matter how skillfully they are manipulative.
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Offline Hades

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(You might be interested to know that it is compatible with retail FS2. :p)
It's almost 2015 Goober, no one (sane) runs retail over FSO anymore.
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Offline Goober5000

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(You might be interested to know that it is compatible with retail FS2. :p)
It's almost 2015 Goober, no one (sane) runs retail over FSO anymore.

First, that's demonstrably incorrect, and second, look at riomaki's post history.  Just a few threads ago he was talking about running on retail FS2.  That's why I said that he might be interested.  The post wasn't addressed to you.

 

Offline CT27

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While neither would be pleasant, I think a hypothetical GTI victory would be 'less worse' than a hypothetical NTF victory.

 

Offline Goober5000

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While neither would be pleasant, I think a hypothetical GTI victory would be 'less worse' than a hypothetical NTF victory.

That's a very interesting thought experiment that probably deserves its own thread.  I happen to think that an NTF victory would be "less worse", because they just wanted to be left alone in their three systems with no overbearing GTVA and no Vasudans around to annoy them.  The GTI, on the other hand, placed no such restrictions on themselves.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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That's a very interesting thought experiment that probably deserves its own thread.  I happen to think that an NTF victory would be "less worse", because they just wanted to be left alone in their three systems with no overbearing GTVA and no Vasudans around to annoy them.  The GTI, on the other hand, placed no such restrictions on themselves.

This completely ignores their offensive actions into Deneb and EP in the game. (Yes, Deneb was for Bosch's benefit, but he sure didn't sell it to his rank and file that way. Koth's offensive doesn't even have that minimal excuse.) There is no evidence for the position you're taking, and plenty of evidence for its opposite.
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Offline CT27

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That's a very interesting thought experiment that probably deserves its own thread.  I happen to think that an NTF victory would be "less worse", because they just wanted to be left alone in their three systems with no overbearing GTVA and no Vasudans around to annoy them.  The GTI, on the other hand, placed no such restrictions on themselves.

I was also considering the path each would take to get their victory; in that regard IMO, an NTF victory would have seen much more civilian casualties and bloodshed.

 

Offline Goober5000

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That's a very interesting thought experiment that probably deserves its own thread.  I happen to think that an NTF victory would be "less worse", because they just wanted to be left alone in their three systems with no overbearing GTVA and no Vasudans around to annoy them.  The GTI, on the other hand, placed no such restrictions on themselves.

This completely ignores their offensive actions into Deneb and EP in the game. (Yes, Deneb was for Bosch's benefit, but he sure didn't sell it to his rank and file that way. Koth's offensive doesn't even have that minimal excuse.) There is no evidence for the position you're taking, and plenty of evidence for its opposite.

Don't confuse strategy with objectives.  The NTF wanted to bloody the GTVA's nose enough so that the populace would call for a peace settlement.  The suboptimal and failure debriefings in FS2 make it clear that both civilians and bureaucrats wanted to sue for peace.  And it's not unreasonable to think that the NTF would agree to withdraw from Deneb, Alpha Centauri, and Epsilon Pegasi in exchange for the independence of Polaris, Regulus, and Sirius.

Compare the NTF's strategy with that of Robert E. Lee during the Civil War.  More than once, Lee invaded the North, but he did it to put pressure on the Union, not to conquer it.

 

Offline CT27

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It was stated in certain FS2 debriefings that there were some in the civilian government who wanted to make peace with the NTF.  Do you think that feeling extended to some Terran pilots in the GTVA as well?

 

Offline Goober5000

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Possibly.  It depends on a number of factors, and on your definition of "make peace".