Community Projects > The FreeSpace Upgrade Project

Subspace Vortex Poll

<< < (3/10) > >>

mjn.mixael:
A point of clarification. FSU's mission is not to recreate retail at higher fidelity. It's to make retail look better. Increased resolution is only part of the puzzle. That increased resolution and framerate should be utilized for additional style and detail where retail could not.

If higher fidelity retail is our mission then most effects, models, and textures we've accepted would go against that because they all take bold artistic liberties. See: Hades Ursa as a prime example.

Phantom Hoover:
Yeah I have to say I prefer the current MVPs version. I don't really like how regular and parallel the ripples are in the new one; even retail managed to be more jumbled, chaotic and natural-looking.

Oddgrim:
Im kinda torn about both, on one way Gamma39s submission recreated retail very well and upscaled the effect excellently with all the plusses and minuses it has. The current subspace animation has been ingame for a long time, while it greatly differs from the retail one it is more dynamic and has more _impact_ in a way the retail blobbing and subdued swirls. Current subspace really forces you to notice and tells you pay attention when a large capital ship jumps in a way retail subspace effect does not. 

So, even though Gamma39s submission is like super impressive technically done in replicating retail effect its like still the retail effect...
In the end when it comes down to it I like the current effect better visually.

Gamma39er:
Thanks for the critique guys. I honestly appreciate honest constructive critique. However, while I do agree on some points, I disagree on others. I'm not trying to sway the vote, but I do have strong opinions on this effect and design methodology in general, and I'd like to engage in this interesting debate.

First, Phantom Hoover's critique. I do agree that my effect looks slightly more regular than the original effect, but I would only relent that it only looks slightly more regular. Getting rid of the regularity was a huge part of the design process. When I was designing this, I iterated so many times that the return for my effort was getting less and less. I made 13 different warpmap folders, each with about 20-40 blend files ( I increment and save like crazy. Old habit). The earlier versions looked ok in still frames, but once they animated, the regularity was unbearable. Once I got to where the effect currently is, for me, it became close enough that it was worth putting the iterative process on hold and submitting this effect. Getting 5% more quality was starting to take exponentially more time. I intend to let my subconscious work on the problem, and one day, I might revisit it.

Additionally, the 3D warpmap tends to compress the effect on the outer edges, adding to the regularity. I don't know if it's the shape of the model itself, or the uv map.

Now for mjn.mixael's post:

I agree that there are plenty of opportunities to add artistic flair in other assets. I really like Nyctaeus' Hecate. It took what I thought was something of a muddy implementation of the design, and fleshed it out, and it even looks a bit more consistent with the Orion now, and consistency in design aesthetic for a particular race is really important in my opinion.

As for my subspace effect, I think there could be some room to add a little bit more detail in the "ripples", but I believe the broad, definable, larger shapes are absolutely essential to achieve the charm and mystique of the original effect. Adding tertiary detail would need to be a very careful process, because trying to improve on what I already believed to be an incredible design concept and implementation for the warp out effect (referrring to retail version) could ruin the effect entirely. Too much detail, instead of looking realistic, could look fake as well, too muddy, poorly defined, etc. The watery nature of the original effect is an important feature to retain, and tertiary detail, if done wrong, could make it look cloudy. So I'd say trying to slightly improve an already great effect (again, not bragging. Talking about retail) is the last, non-essential step.

Not saying I won't revisit adding tertiary detail in the future. I may try to improve on the effect by messing with the original concept in the future. In short, I think the larger shapes of the original are the most important feature to retain, otherwise, it's a completely different effect with a different impact. I always loved the original quality of the retail effect.

Admittedly though, you guys got me thinking about it, but I got other responsibilities right now so, maybe later. :P

Nyctaeus:
I think we have excellent team onboard. Majority of us are professional artists or at least very veteran ones. It's obvious for me that each one of FSU team members knows what he's doing, and how to keep things balanced. When there is a room for stretch, we can precisely find it.

I think what can be preserved from vanilla, should be preserved. Sometimes preserved in more improved form is also the key. Everything is improvement, but some of them are improvements that follows the original vibe closely, others alter it to mix old and new, and the third kind radically changes the theme... Usually for coherent reason.

When something is beyond redemption like Hecate or Aeolus, then we go the third way, and apply radical changes, but this approach we should apply carefully and situationally.

Warpmap is not beyond redemption. Gamma39er's work is definitely first one, and the kind of upgrade I think we should favour. FS is composed of pletora of small, key visuals. This is opportunity to restore and preserve vital element of FS art style.

I'm not looking for "why not". I'm looking for "why yes". We can take ASW swirl because it's cool and pretty, or we can take new proposal because it's cool, pretty and consistent with source.

Also if Gamma39er wishes to continue working on it to add more "randomness" to his work and convert it to "mix old and new" approach, I feel open to see this endeavour to continue. 

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page