Author Topic: How they might destroy the Gargant  (Read 35755 times)

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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
If the Mass and size of the Sun is not enough big to create a Dark Hole, but enough to go into SuperNova (and not a Nova), then a Neutron Star will result, in any case, the gravity field and Mass of a Neutron Star is truly impressive, I believe the damage done to the system would just be very much like the same.

Yes, the damage itself would be the same, but the amount of damage made to the system is not dependant of the end result itself.

Damage made to the system results from the initial explosion only. This is because the gravitation effect of a black hole of mass M is effectively equal to the gravitation effect of a neutron star of mass M, which both are equal to gravitation effect of the original star of massa M (assuming thet the whole mass of the star would collapse and form a neutron star/event horizon/whatever. Naturally a big portion of the mass of an exploding sun ejects into space, makes considerable damage to planets and whatever is so unlucky to be there and forms an expanding "planetary nebula".

So, for example if Shivans right now compressed the sun enough for it to form an event horizon (and thus become a black hole), the orbits of planets would stay much the same. Actually the worst thing in turning the Sun into a black hole would be that the atmosphere would liquify in a day, I think... might be even less. This, of course, would soon become a serious problem to life as we know it.  :D


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In the other case, if the size and mass is not enough to go into SuperNova, the Sun will start rising it's temperature and just glowing more intense until, we would all get a nice tan over the skin (no, it's a joke, we'll burn to death for sure, and so anything in that system probabily).

That will be the ultimate fate of the Sol system eventually.

Actually it has been estimated that in at most 10e9 (milliard/billion/whatever) years the Sun will become hot enough to vaporize the oceans, which will of course be quite devastating to life on Earth. On the other hand, moons of Jupiter and Saturn might spring into life.

This, of course, is RealLife(TM) Physics and has nothing whatsoever to do with FS universe, so the mission designer can plan and do pretty much what they like. "Subspace anomaly" is a good way to explain everything, as RealLife(TM) physics does not know of such thing as subspace. Mathematics does, however.  :rolleyes:

But do you know what is strangely consolatory about the fact that our time in Solar system is limited to at best 2-3 billion years? It means that we (as a species and culture) WILL EVENTUALLY GO TO STARS - or die out. Knowing the nature of human race, we probably will get to the stars. At least, some generations will definitely keep on trying for a long time. And that is IMO a very very cool thing in itself. Wish I could be there to see it. :cool:
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 
Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
That theoretical study on subspace was extremely interesting. I had no idea that Star Trek's and Freespace's subspace drives were so similar. (Course in Trek they call it "Warp Drive"). I had always wondered why subspace appeared as a tunnel...

Which begs the questions: What does subspace look like if you're not surrounded by a Normal space field? And for that matter what would a Short Space tunnel look like?
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

"You can fight like a krogan, run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard!"

 
Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
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That will be the ultimate fate of the Sol system eventually.

Aren't we supposed  to be burned by the transformation of the Sun into a Red Giant ?. I mean the actual size (and mass) of is not enough to go into a Red Supergiant (there also Blue Giants and supergiants...), so there won't be any Neutron Star, Dark Hole or Nova, the Sun is supposed to jus expulse the exterior of layers in gas clouds forming a planetary nebula, then become a White and later a Black Dwarf......

I know you wrote it right, we'll get burned, but anyways, is not as critical as a Nova (it will take much more time to succed since it already transformed from a Red Giant to a Supergiant.....)

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That theoretical study on subspace was extremely interesting. I had no idea that Star Trek's and Freespace's subspace drives were so similar. (Course in Trek they call it "Warp Drive"). I had always wondered why subspace appeared as a tunnel...
.

Yes, that explanation is very convicent. It's not only FS and Star Trek, I know another series where they appear, SubSpace and Space layers concept are not so rare....
Actually if you played FS1 (or the FSPort) you should remember the CBANIMs of the Warp Drive (or was Engine?)

The Warp Drive is used to jump into a SubSpace rift (the old term used is Worm Hole), however in newer Star Trek games or Series they seem to call it SubSpace Rift. I know this because I read a review that of something "how subspace rift are used" to warp and to damage....In any case I remember reading "A ship is able to travel throught it if it has a Warp Drive and enters it at light speed", again is an additional condition, some other series says Shields. If you see FS anytime a ship starts to warp it accelerates severely it's speed

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Which begs the questions: What does subspace look like if you're not surrounded by a Normal space field? And for that matter what would a Short Space tunnel look like?

We don't know, SubSpace concept is really out of knowledge at this moment, I believe it exist because it seems theorically possible, anyways until we can't reach light's speed (at least), it's not something to be really researched...

As we don't know how it should look like, there is no way of known the difference between a SubSpace Rift and other Space rifts.......

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What stop me from beliving that's the Sathanas rift is not a SubSpace rift, is that, we don't know if it is possible to skip Space Layers, for example, jumping from Normal Space to Short Space without passing SubSpace.





(in other Series "Transition engines" are used for the Warp purpose, I now catch it)

By the picture itself is logically impossible, you can't avoid Space layers.....the point is that FS Warp Drives (engines), are configured to enter in SubSpace, however if they were in front of another kind of rift, they would probabily break apart, with no possible escape...
« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 10:38:11 pm by Shadow0000 »

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
My sentence "That will be the ultimate fate of the Sol system eventually" was a reference to the quote above it. But yes, it's a bit ambiguous, sorry about that :D
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Kie99

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Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
I'm pretty sure if you loaded a couple of Warlocks full of Meson Bombs you could take out the Gargant.  Or any other ship for that matter.
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Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Between being dead and sacrificing for the "better good" there is a small difference. Do you remember the Colossus ?, it was the most stupid thing the GTVA could have done. Like stopping a Sathanas would just make a difference when the Shivans have more than 70 of those ships...

Sacrifice is always a choice, but people is supposed to talk about it as a last choice. Even if it is a game you have to consider lives, and even if you tell me it has an auto-pilot device, you have to consider how much money and resources cost to build ships of that kind SJ sizes. I think were are trying to find a more rational and logiic way of kill something that big, not just by look or by brute power, but more to demostrate we are able to defend ourselves and that we can be at the same level of technology against the Shivans. The Colossus somewhat tried to represent that, however the GTVA made the mistake of believing the Shivans would use the same weapon against them once again...


 
Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
We could create a thread of 300 replys on all the mistakes the GTVA made in FS2...
But I think it is important to point out that they didn't know that the origianal Sathanas was just the advance guard. They thought there was only one super-ship, and I think that while that narrow-minded, it's perhaps justified in that there was only one Lucifer.
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

"You can fight like a krogan, run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard!"

 
Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
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We could create a thread of 300 replys on all the mistakes the GTVA made in FS2...

for sure, this make me remember in R1, in the escort mission (was Mission 12 ?), when the Vasudans make fun of the Terran GTVA, and then later the Vasudans loose the Asarte and almost the Tanen to the EA. It doesn't matter if Terran or Vasudan, once any species goes GTVA they can't go back...(The HoL has the Het-Ka and they are not GTVA)

 

Offline jr2

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Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
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I think were are trying to find a more rational and logiic way of kill something that big, not just by look or by brute power,
Hmm... like if you could find a way to make it destroy itself using its own massive power...  (I think the only way you could take one out would be to have a ship with at least the same power as it, or to find a critical spot that is not protected.)

Now, here's a wild idea: I've heard that EMP devices actually were developed during the cold war by both Russia and the US, and, of course, they tried to shield their military devices in case of an attack by the other side...  I heard that an EMP blast (which would happen high in the atmosphere) would cause all wires (inside devices and out) to surge, thus causing massive destruction.  The EMP in FS is rather small and short-lived, as the weapons and consequently the surge produced is not as big.  I wonder if a Meson-sized EMP device would
work on a Gargant / Gigas?  Of course if they've got 80 of them...  :nervous:  :shaking:

PS: EDIT Of course, it will be much easier to wait for Inf Ch 3 or 4, and then pick apart the method the Inf team uses to defeat the Gargant to pieces using 20/20 hindsight.  :lol: jk, we'd never do that, right?  :)  ;)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2006, 04:29:55 pm by jr2 »

 
Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
"we" might not, but someone else might.

This is all assuming they actually use the Gargant.
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

"You can fight like a krogan, run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard!"

 
Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Quote
Now, here's a wild idea: I've heard that EMP devices actually were developed during the cold war by both Russia and the US, and, of course, they tried to shield their military devices in case of an attack by the other side...  I heard that an EMP blast (which would happen high in the atmosphere) would cause all wires (inside devices and out) to surge, thus causing massive destruction.  The EMP in FS is rather small and short-lived, as the weapons and consequently the surge produced is not as big.  I wonder if a Meson-sized EMP device would
work on a Gargant / Gigas?  Of course if they've got 80 of them...   

For that matter Shields and Disruption fields are used in big ships, to prevent something like that....and again like with the Black Hole or Super Nova the problem is, will Shivans fall in that kind of trap ?, opportunity, luck and chances will be always bring problems....

Anyways when I believe that Shivan technology is the very much same, we can 100% guarantee that it should work against their technology, specially against a unusual ship as the Gargant is...

There is the "Electronics" Missile, which cause a momentarily shutdown in both Engines and Weapons, subsystems, I am sure that this kind of weapon must be used against something really big, we have played campaings without this kind of weapon and be able to destroy even Juggernauts...

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Plus if I am not too wrong an EMP produced at surface and upper areas as atmosphere can affect something that is below the ground. It must has something to do with Mass (in the case of a ship Armor without electric devices)

 
Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
umm, I'm back, in case any of you were wondering I was down in roswell.  Anyway, Star Trek DOES NOT USE ACTUAL WARPING TECHNOLOGY. :hopping:
 On Deep Space Nine, there was a jumphole that did that, but that was an anomaly. Also, the borg home-planet had many of these holes.  The ships used in Star Trek used an anti-matter - matter drive to produce enough energy to send the ship to a velocity beyond light speed. This is explained in Enterprise, though many of you probably got bored while watching that early part of the first season.

and to comment on the EMP weapon, an EMP device emits an electromagnetic field that disrupts all electric currents (aside from the human body if you are talking about today's technology). This is acheived (I belive) by stopping the electrons from being able to jump from one atom to another.  :eek2:  :shaking: 

The EMP device can be used to make a ship's engines stop (though in space, inertia keeps a ship moving, since there is no friction to sotp the ship's momentum)

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"Take my love. Take my land. Take me where I cannot stand. I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back. Burn the land boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me. There's no place I can be since I've found Serenity. But you can't take the sky from me." - Ballad of Serenity

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
What the hell?  :shaking:

IMO the Star Trek ships in particular use warp drives. In effect, the energy comes from annihilation all right, but it is used to "squeeze" the space in between the target point and the starting point - hence the "stretching" effect of the ship when it engages the warp drive.

This enables the ships effectively exceed speed of light in relation to other surrounding universe; however the ship never actually exceeds speed of light during its voyage through the squeezed space it travels through. All in all, I think it's very unlikely any Star Trek ship would be claimed to exceed the speed of light as the creators of the series knew perfectly well that even if all the matter of universe was transformed into energy, it wouldn't be enough to make even one electron to travel FTL. AFAIK that's the reason they invented that if the ships could use energy to shorten the way to target it wouldn't be necessary to break the causality.

Is it possible that you misunderstood something said on Enterprise?
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline FireCrack

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Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
This is acheived (I belive) by stopping the electrons from being able to jump from one atom to another.  :eek2:  :shaking: 

It's achived by producing an electromagnetic feild that induces a current in conductive objects.
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 
Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
umm, I'm back, in case any of you were wondering I was down in roswell.  Anyway, Star Trek DOES NOT USE ACTUAL WARPING TECHNOLOGY. :hopping:

You do know what "to warp" means right? Taken literally, the term "warp" applies to Star Trek drives almost perfectly.


Question: How the hell did we get talking about Star Trek?  :lol:
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

"You can fight like a krogan, run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard!"

 

Offline Mehrpack

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Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
hi,
the warpdrive in StarTrek, generate with the energy of the Antimatter - matter reactor a subspace field arround the ship.

the subspace in the StarTrek universes is a space that is between our universes and another universes.
so that the normal physic doesnt exsist for the ship and the ship can fly faster as the light.
that all can you read in the technical book of the enterprise D.

to the emp.
all that you need to block a emp-weapon is to isolate the very important systems with a faraday cage or use a protector for overvolting.
with a protector, maybe the system shut down for some seconds and reboot.
i think that you doesnt neutralize the shivans long enough with a emp weapon.

but btw: the cyclops is a atom-bomb, why they havnt a emp?

Mehrpack
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attention: this english is dangerours and terrible, runaway so fast you can!

 
Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
actually, the term "warp" in star trek is only loosely related to actual warping. How do you explain the stars flying by the side of the ship, a tear in normal space wouldn't have those. . . .   :D

also, sorry about the emp flub-up, it was a guess, I should have said that on the other post. . . .  :mad:
« Last Edit: April 05, 2006, 05:37:37 pm by 214 »

    |[===---(-         
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 =(||==)_
    ||_____|
 =(||==)
    ||                   
    |[===---(-                             

"Take my love. Take my land. Take me where I cannot stand. I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back. Burn the land boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me. There's no place I can be since I've found Serenity. But you can't take the sky from me." - Ballad of Serenity

  

Offline FireCrack

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Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Nukes dont create EMP's unless there is a magenetic feild and an atmosphere present.

Either way, the cyclops is probably an antimatter bomb.
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 

Offline Qwer

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Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Cyclops isn't antimatter bomb, that's for sure.
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Offline Mefustae

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Re: How they might destroy the Gargant
Nukes dont create EMP's unless there is a magenetic feild and an atmosphere present.
Plus, the possiblity that anyone in this time-period would be using technology still susceptible to EMP is effectively nil.