[Speeder]

Hunter, firstly, you should respect the totally free work some others put into a game which you don't really seem to contribute a ****y tiny part of. Imo, you aren't in the position to talk like that to an SCP dev. Also, I think everyone's free to try CVS builds, locate bugs, and report and describe the bugs exactly, with proper coverage on every part of the system. That makes debuging possible.
Also, *****ing about the game might as well be a foolish thing on your side, as I really think that it is the computer, windows or drivers that cannot run the SCP edition, not something else.
Also, as you might have read, then tom's build causes the servers more net usage, so if you look beyond your bloody selfishness, you may see that it's very, very bad for all of FreeSpace. And I'm pretty sure that if Tom's build was blocked, most of the real FreeSpace fans would go over to the newest final SCP build, and only a few blockheads like you would leave playing FreeSpace.

I'll say this as a general thing on the net. When you're using free services, then you NEVER say ONE bad thing to anyone who's contributed more to it than you, othervise you'll be hated by all. On the other hand, with enough respect and acting like an adult, you may get help from ppl who actually know what's going on and maybe can fix the problem.

About your current arguments:
"I have not once seen you ask someone if they are having problems with it" What the hell, now the developer's gonna ask every user to oh please be so kind as to tell their problems? Sure, devs will get you your evening tea as well, just call!
"only your own bug testing" That will make the community be convinced that it's better.
"which is a problem because your computer differs with others" Oh, reeeaaally, how suppriseing! Then bugtest yourself as well!
"and told you the damn problems kara" If you just drop a random line like: "My FS crashes." "****ing multiplayer crashes" "it freezes" "I don't like the pilots face sitting in the Hercules 1 model, when the red sun's shining at about 80° angle on the cockpit" Won't help a bloody thing! The devs need to reproduce the bugs to be able to correct them. For that, you must give a very detailed explanation.

If you continue arguing, think over what you wish to say, and calmly try to make your points, not like a bloody 12 year old, who was let out to play around the net for a little. Othervise you should probably just stay shut, cuz I don't think anyone wants to hear crap flowing from your mouth.

[Shade]

Well now. Kara just told you exactly how many multi bugs are currently known. Three. Why, pray tell, given that links to the bug reporting system are all over the place, and that the test builds are all publically available to anyone, have you not reported any of those many bugs you claim to have found?

You say people have not been asked if they are having problems but, well, what do you think all those links to Mantis are for, what do you think all the release candidate builds with a big sticker saying "Test this and tell us if anything goes awry so we can fix it" are for, and what about the several threads where SCP members have begged for people to test multi and report the bugs so they could be fixed for 3.6.9?

You say people have not been asked, but if you truely believe that, you are blind. One of the stated goals of 3.6.9 is to have multi working flawlessly, and several SCP coders have spent many hours towards that end. But it will. not. happen. if the people playing multi refuse to actually test the builds that are provided for that express purpose. So as far as I'm concerned, you can stuff that attitude, because right now you're part of the problem. Try being part of the solution for a change, and the bugs you supposedly keep finding in 3.6.9 RCs can actually be fixed.

And if not, well then to be honest, if that attitude is representative of those 3/4th of the multi community, I can live with losing them.

[karajorma]

LOL and lose more then 3/4ths of the current multi community? A lot of help that will do......... If you want people to play your ****ing build then convince them its worth playing. I have not once seen you ask someone if they are having problems with it, only your own bug testing

Then you haven't been looking hard enough. I asked at Freespace.pl since they play on 3.6.7 and I wanted to make sure that 3.6.9 would work for them. I'd link you to the thread but it's down at the moment. Feel free to ask Qwer though. I've played lots of games with them and you can feel free to ask the 303 if I haven't asked them if sudden disappearance were due to crashes or if bugs were occuring for them (The only report I ever recieved was one about beams not working which isn't an issue in 3.6.9 anyway).

The fact is that it isn't my job to chase after the multi community and ask them if they are having problems. They know where the SCP team is. If there is a problem they can come and tell me what it is. But even though it isn't my job I did it anyway because I wanted to make sure the bugs were gone before the BtRL demo came out. Don't presume to tell me that I haven't asked the multiplayer community to report problems. I've done everything I possibly can to get them to report errors. If they choose not to how is that my fault?

which is a problem because your computer differs with others. I have tried your damn builds, and told you the damn problems kara, and they just dont get fixed... so why should I continue to use this ****y build if it doesnt work?

And I have repeatedly told you to enter bugs in Mantis. I've repeatedly explained why bug reports need to go into mantis rather than just on ICQ conversations. Have you even bothered to register? As far as I know multiplayer works perfectly on 3.6.9.

But I went through the logs of previous conversations and the only report I found was a bug report you were forwarding from someone else that was probably an FS2NetD issue.

And before you start it's not just me. I haven't had a single crash report from anyone in the BtRL team. I haven't had a single crash report from anyone in the Starfox team. Name a single multiplayer problem except for the ones above that hasn't fixed. Or name a single more generic problem that I haven't told you to report in mantis so that it could be fixed.

Admittedly I only ever test using the Beyond the Red Line data because that's what I'm working on. But I've not seen a crash in months (At least none that I haven't since hunted down and fixed or passed on to Taylor and Goober to fix). Feel free to ask the team how stable 3.6.9 is for them.

And if your wondering why i just so happend to pop up, this hoda guy poped into my teamspeak yesterday and we had a discussion about getting his build to work. It didnt want to work, period. So i gave him toms build, which ****ing works every ****ing time.

So?

Had he come to me I probably would have had him running 3.6.9 in minutes most likely. 10 - 1 says his problem was that he wasn't running OpenAL.

3rd part: Well, tsk tsk, fix them!

Believe me, I am.

Bugs 1 and 3 will be fixed post 3.6.9. I'm not certain how much time I'll have to do it but 3.7 will probably break compatability with older builds in order to have more efficient net code. The way I've been solving bugs (by adding new network packets for each one) is not sustainable. It will just slow the game down if we keep doing it. Time to rewrite the code if we can.

As for bug 2 I spent 20 minutes trying to recreate it with no luck. I've seen it in the release build once or twice but I've had no luck getting it to occur when I'm running it through the debugger and can actually figure out what caused it. I'll give it another try soon though.

[[DW]-Hunter]

w/e im done with this thread, this is only causing a big arguement....... and people posting anything after this post, go ahead and post. But dont expect me to read it......

[Speeder]

Easy sollution to make, when someone can't reason himself outta his misery. That makes what you said just about simple childish *****ing...

[Lt.Cannonfodder]

Great attitude Hunter

I for one can say that newest test builds by karajorma have worked just fine in the last two months when we've been playtesting BtRL. I have no complaints and can only give praise to the people who keep on working with FS_Open on their free time. Keep up the good work!

[karajorma]

w/e im done with this thread, this is only causing a big arguement....... and people posting anything after this post, go ahead and post. But dont expect me to read it......

Fine but if you ever complain about FS2_Open multiplayer having bugs I'm pointing you right back here because you were offered the chance to help solve the problem and you didn't care to.

As I said on the last thread I'm fixing multiplayer problems that I care about for BSG and ones that appear in mantis. Nothing else matters to me.

[pecenipicek]

i vote for immediate monkeying of [DW]-Hunter. being an annoying arsehole shouldnt be tolerated...

[Herra Tohtori]

Tolerated, yes... Accepted, that's up to you. Monkeyed... well that's for the admins to decide.

[Shade]

Just being annoying should hardly be enough to qualify for that, imo. All of us will probably be annoying arseholes to someone at some point, and there's been no name-calling or deliberately offensive posts here, just temper and a measure of arrogance.

[Taristin]

w/e im done with this thread, this is only causing a big arguement....... and people posting anything after this post, go ahead and post. But dont expect me to read it......

Ok then, you're a childish asshat. Despite being proven wrong on almost every point you make, you resort to vulgarity. You are hinderring the 3.6.9 release, and making the multiplayer community look like a bunch of tards.

If I were MP or Taylor, I'd have dropped tom-build support ages ago.

[Flipside]

Got to agree here, if you have nothing constructive to add, then add nothing. The purpose of the SCP is to move everything into the next generation, Multiplay included, you can either hug your Tom's build to your chest and whine, or you can help us do that for the benefit of everyone. The choice is yours.

If you are going to come in here, pointlessly insult the work the coders do and wave the 'Multiplaying communities loyalty' under our nose like some kind of baseball bat, then you are not welcome.

Rant Over.

For those of you who ARE having problems getting the latest build to work, PLEASE report it and post details of the problems you are having. If the SCP team don't know it's broken, they can't fix it, so sitting and complaining that 'Multiplayer doesn't work' achieves nothing for you OR us.

[martellato]

Also, I think everyone's free to try CVS builds, locate bugs, and report and describe the bugs exactly, with proper coverage on every part of the system. That makes debuging possible.

Got to agree here, if you have nothing constructive to add, then add nothing. The purpose of the SCP is to move everything into the next generation, Multiplay included

...Well said you guys!  The fact that the developers of SCP continue so actively and aggresively improve upon the code of FS2, which was made 8 years ago is amazing.  The best way to say thanks to a developer (well, besides money  ) is to help them make their work even better.

Now, we can download _open and complain about the problems that we have on build x on the forum, but it isn't going to do anyone (least us) any good.  The easiest contribution you can make is to complain the right way ... give them as much info as possible in Mantis to help them recreate the problem... and fix it.

[Mars]

Tom's Build is pretty sorry IMHO.

[NGTM-1R]

w/e im done with this thread, this is only causing a big arguement....... and people posting anything after this post, go ahead and post. But dont expect me to read it......

Let me put this simply: you concede defeat then, yes? You concede you have no point and are talking out of your ass, yes?

[Goober5000]

Okay, that's enough.  We've won the argument; we don't need to rub it in.

[Herra Tohtori]

Besides he's not reading this.

[WMCoolmon]

Hunter can use whatever build he likes. As far as I'm concerned, it's only a problem once it starts to impose on other people who are trying to improve FS2, and hinders those efforts.

How this will probably work is as follows...Hunter will continue using Tom's Build. Eventually, some new netcode will be added (ie to remove the shipclass and/or weaponclass limits). The central Fs2NetD server will be upgraded to support the netcode, and Tom's Build will stop working. At that point Hunter can either come back here and *****, start his own server or play IP-only games, give up Freespace multiplayer, or start using an up-to-date build.

Personally I like the last option the best, since it doesn't involve losing fans or maintaining the split community.

[NGTM-1R]

Okay, that's enough.  We've won the argument; we don't need to rub it in.

Ahh...

But this is HLP. We never let the dead horse rest without giving it one last good kick.


EDIT: And perhaps I'm becoming too cynical, but I can't help but think DW and the guy who started the thread are the same person. Considering the original guy never did show up to defend his point.

[Speeder]

Don't think so, but you may ask Hoda on IRC I guess... He's from the US, so try at such times

About removing limits from netcode... Personally I think that FS supports enough diversity as it is, so if I wanted to change the net-code I'd go for optimizing it perhaps, so it'd be lighter on servers and maybe we could have a more stabile PXO replacement. (At least it's not really working for me :->)

Btw, I've already gave the last kick imo, right after the I'm off from here post of his