[Scotty]

So you're in effect proposing a 'middle step' from mod to admin to.... do the mod's job except a little more involved?  You're losing me in exactly why this is necessary.

[Fury]

Is it really so hard to figure out why it is necessary? Forget moderation for a while. Being an administrator is a lot more than moderating posts and fixing broken ****. People tend to often forget that, sadly.

As you should already be aware, people possessing adequate technical skills are hard to come by, yet are critical in keeping a community operational. Thus we should all do them a favor and not expect these same people to handle everything from technical tasks to mundane tasks.

This is where community admins come into the picture. It is far easier to find dedicated, level headed and reasonable people. than it is finding people with these same qualities plus required technical skills. They handle all these mundane non-technical tasks. Freeing tech admins from the necessity of attending the community in non-technical matters and allowing them to focus their time on improving technical side of things when no things are broken. You know, wouldn't it be great to actually improve the services provided or introduce new services rather than keeping status quo year after year?

Both tech and community admins are a necessity to provide a functional, well provided community. Even one admin dedicated for the task of being a community admin can really help out all the other technically oriented admins. How many community admins are needed is directly proportional to size of the community obviously. HLP would get by with just one or two, always good to have redundancy in times of absence, even if not strictly necessary.

Community admins are not moderators.

[Spoon]

Fury is making some excellent points and suggestions here.
I'm one of the people that would like to see constant improvement being made to HLP, instead we have had years of status quo and admins who only seem to actually do something if it involves the projects they are personally involved with. Getting a community admin who is actually involved with the community and has actually played some of the campaigns&mods would be great. Candidate suggestion: Axem. Just take a look at his newsletters to see how fitting the position would be.

And while we are on the subject of improving HLP. The home page, the thing most new people will probably get to see once they visit HLP, is pretty bad. I get that the forum is the main focus of the site but the home page as it is now seems to serve very little purpose. Compare it to how http://www.wcsaga.com/ looks. I'd definitely give the cake to wcsaga in terms of presentation, readability and first impression.

[Fury]

And while we are on the subject of improving HLP. The home page, the thing most new people will probably get to see once they visit HLP, is pretty bad. I get that the forum is the main focus of the site but the home page as it is now seems to serve very little purpose. Compare it to how http://www.wcsaga.com/ looks. I'd definitely give the cake to wcsaga in terms of presentation, readability and first impression.

Which is why I used Sandwich as an example earlier. He's had an ongoing project of introducing a new mainpage with plenty of dynamic content for years, so many years in fact that I've completely lost count. And which is again why I said HLP should have recruited at least one more web designer half a decade ago.

Relying on one person no matter who that person is, is simply asking for trouble. Now don't get me wrong. I like Sandwich as a person and he's been a great asset to the community, but the sooner he and other admins wake up to the reality that he alone isn't going to cut it, the sooner we'll start seeing improvements around here.

I can't remember the admins have ever specifically recruited for a web designer. While Karajorma liked to insist there aren't anyone capable, without trying you won't find any.

[General Battuta]

Axem should be an admin, no question. He's far and away the biggest producer of community content and tutorials.

[NGTM-1R]

I tell you what, we'll use this thread as an example. Let's see who steps forward. Bear in mind we do need people we can trust. I wouldn't make Ironforge an admin no matter what he said his skills were.

This is an incredibly two-faced statement considering the number of people who even bother reading Site Support on a regular basis.

If you're really going to go with such a blatant display of tokenism and claim it proves your point, then the only thing this thread will prove is that you don't want to try. It's literally at the bottom of the page.

[mjn.mixael]

[Grizzly]

QFT

[Scotty]

I'd absolutely be behind Axem for admin.  He certainly does enough around her to warrant the title "unofficially" if nothing else.

[karajorma]

I'd have no problem with making Axem an admin. He's already doing a lot of the jobs that Fury has suggested a community admin should be doing by working on the newsletter etc. I have no idea if he wants the job. But I'll ask him.

This is an incredibly two-faced statement considering the number of people who even bother reading Site Support on a regular basis.

Actually, I suspect anyone who should be an admin probably reads Site Support anyway though. Stands to reason that anyone interested in the day to day running of the site already comes here. I'd prefer to see who volunteers on this thread before I throw it open. Consider it an example of trying to hire from within rather than posting a job listing.

Axem should be an admin, no question. He's far and away the biggest producer of community content and tutorials.

Bear in mind there is a risk there. Ask yourself who had that role before Axem.

[Lorric]

Bear in mind there is a risk there. Ask yourself who had that role before Axem.

Hm?

[karajorma]

Take a look at the tech help, FREDding and modding forums from 2003 - 2006. See which names you see on almost every thread.  Check who has made tutorials from that era.

[Phantom Hoover]

Actually, I suspect anyone who should be an admin probably reads Site Support anyway though. Stands to reason that anyone interested in the day to day running of the site already comes here. I'd prefer to see who volunteers on this thread before I throw it open. Consider it an example of trying to hire from within rather than posting a job listing.

If you're going to bring up vetting admins for trustworthiness as such a big deal I think it's relevant to ask whether admins should just be grandfathered in with no review, even after well over a decade of the site and its community evolving.

[Lorric]

Take a look at the tech help, FREDding and modding forums from 2003 - 2006. See which names you see on almost every thread.  Check who has made tutorials from that era.

It was you? (You're the last post on a lot of threads.)

What is the risk?

[Spoon]

Take a look at the tech help, FREDding and modding forums from 2003 - 2006. See which names you see on almost every thread.  Check who has made tutorials from that era.

It was you? (You're the last post on a lot of threads.)

What is the risk?

I don't see this supposed risk either.

[karajorma]

Spending time as an admin = less time doing the stuff that you actually used to do on HLP.

I'm not going to blame the fact I definitely do less community work than I used to on the fact I became an admin, but the dates do match up somewhat. I certainly never did any major work on my FAQ after becoming an admin. I spend a lot less time playing FS2, modding or coding than I used to. Hell, the plan for this morning was to spend time on a multiplayer mission for Diaspora but I've spent the last hour or so reading HLP instead (a significant portion of which was dealing with this thread).

Whenever someone decides to make a dick of themselves on a thread or someone reports a thread, I then have to read the entire thread so that I can make an informed comment when it comes to moderation. This happens even if you don't see any resulting action.

Like I said, I'm happy to see Axem as an admin but there is a good chance that by raising him up as one, you're going to significantly reduce his output for the community. So for those of you who suggested him, please think about that next time you decide to instigate some forum drama.

[Lorric]

Spending time as an admin = less time doing the stuff that you actually used to do on HLP.

I actually thought of this when the Axem suggestion came up. That would it impact on his stuff, and would he want that to happen?

[Axem]

Its so nice to be loved by all. But if my work output falls, you'll all be to blame!

[Lorric]

Its so nice to be loved by all. But if my work output falls, you'll all be to blame!

You won't be able to blame me.

[Mongoose]

As you should already be aware, people possessing adequate technical skills are hard to come by, yet are critical in keeping a community operational. Thus we should all do them a favor and not expect these same people to handle everything from technical tasks to mundane tasks.

Isn't this exactly what we have already, though?  Half the admins aren't really involved in the technical side of things, so they're free to focus on the community side of things.  Now you can make the argument that the current setup we have isn't accomplishing that goal right now, and that's fair, but I don't think there's any need to invent new positions just for the sake of doing so.  We're not exactly an operation on the scale of SomethingAwful here.

And by no means do I want to disparage your past contributions, but for the past few years you've done an awful lot of complaining about what needs fixing or improving around here, without offering much in the way of concrete assistance to achieve it.  It's all well and good to point out, "Software X needs updating," or "Security hole Y needs patching," but hasn't there been any point when you stopped and asked yourself, hey, maybe I could jump in and lend a bit of a hand?