Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: blackhole on September 26, 2008, 01:42:23 am
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Spore creators sued over anti-piracy software
September 26, 2008 - 8:48AM
Source: ABC
The freshly-launched Spore computer game that lets people play God has been hit with a lawsuit accusing its creators of slipping devilish anti-piracy software onto players' machines.
The lawsuit filed this week in a federal court in Northern California contends that players were not warned about tenacious digital rights management (DRM) software that stays in computers even if game programs are removed.
Spore maker Electronic Arts told buyers that there are anti-piracy safeguards but did not advise people the SecuROM program it used "is essentially a virus that installs itself without warning," the lawsuit alleges.
The DRM software attaches itself to the "command and control centres" of computers and tracks activities, blocks certain operations and even disrupts hardware, according to the suit filed on Monday (local time).
A US woman was named as the plaintiff in the lawsuit, which is seeking class action status to represent all Spore buyers.
The filing demands a jury trial and wants Electronic Arts forced to pay unspecified damages as well as turn over money it has made from Spore, which went on sale in Europe, Asia, Australia and the United States this month.
Electronic Arts declined an AFP request for comment, saying it does not discuss pending litigation.
DRM software is commonly used to thwart piracy of video games, as well as digitised music and films.
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Did not realize....
Hope that doesnt affect me
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I read this earlier today (Well yesterday). Hope they get one heck of a slap in the wallet.
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Hmmm. Half my games are dl'd. Should I be worried?
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you couldn't know and besides it was not your fault that a virus essentially attached itself in your machine, regardless if you think nothing is wrong.
however give it enough time, as with all viruses, it learns and adapts and they were designed that way, eventually you will get problems later on.
as for stormkeeper, pirated software the stuff i download if i have no where else to turn if i can not find it anywhere, the people who create the cracks, also remove files to end any conflict, however some of them are stupid enough to upload another one into the game the moment you play it. the risks are always their and you know the dangers even so, its not a question of being worried more a question of when will the next computer format come and begin again.
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I can't see this going anywhere, considering that Securom in its current form has been around for almost three years now and is used by several companies other than EA, but it's good that someone is at least trying to do something about it.
See my post here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,56412.20.html) for more information on Securom and what it does.
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I think you people that are worried missed the point.
The lawsuit is against EA because it is using SecuROM. Which is what the woman is alleging acts as a virus. (In point of fact, it acts more like a rootkit, but that's nitpicking). Illegally downloaded and cracked software will have its SecuROM functionality removed. For that matter, most editions of SecuROM don't have reporting facilities anyway so it doesn't matter much (though the edition in use with Spore seems to report in order to detect the number of activations).
SecuROM is far less evil than Starforce - they readily acknowledge there are sometimes compatibility issues with their software and will issue custom-built patches to remove their protection from software. I had an issue with Homeworld 2 and they actually provided me with a patch that eliminated the copy-protection for me to get it working.
however give it enough time, as with all viruses, it learns and adapts and they were designed that way, eventually you will get problems later on.
Uh, no. No computer virus works that way. They have a specific function they perform. That's it. Computer viruses do not have a flexible-heuristic or AI component to them. And SecuROM's software isn't actually a virus, it just bears some similarities to the way they function.
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SecuROM is far less evil than Starforce
This is highly debatable. Starforce is actually much easier to remove from a system than Securom. Malware is a more accurate term than virus for any of these things.
Also, Homeworld 2 is not relevant here. The form of Securom under discussion is version 7 and onward, first seen in some 2005 games, which was quite different from the previous versions.
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so, uhm is it safe to get it still?
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if it is a rootkit that means it will just gather what it's been designed to do and keep going.
essentially it's like trying to pee in a public men's toilet(your computer) facility with a man 3 foot taller then you(the rootkit) are look down at you and finding out what your features and attitude is like so he can report back to his buddies to prepare for the next contact. if you want it like this then i won't stop you, but thats what it is like being said.
if it is safe though? as with all root kits,vruises, malware, bots if it sticks to it's designed goals assuming their has been no new orders to take on such as gathering your pc's passwords from certain sites and transmitting them to dubious sites, it shouldn't be much of a problem, but it would be wise to keep an eye on it if so.
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if it is a rootkit that means it will just gather what it's been designed to do and keep going.
essentially it's like trying to pee in a public men's toilet(your computer) facility with a man 3 foot taller then you(the rootkit) are look down at you and finding out what your features and attitude is like so he can report back to his buddies to prepare for the next contact. if you want it like this then i won't stop you, but thats what it is like being said.
if it is safe though? as with all root kits,vruises, malware, bots if it sticks to it's designed goals assuming their has been no new orders to take on such as gathering your pc's passwords from certain sites and transmitting them to dubious sites, it shouldn't be much of a problem, but it would be wise to keep an eye on it if so.
Say what? :confused:
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ok your problem, don;'t say i didn't tell you so when it comes and hits you in the face, i would laugh at you for not understanding what i said. :rolleyes:
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so, uhm is it safe to get it still?
Apparently if you pirate it.
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ok your problem, don;'t say i didn't tell you so when it comes and hits you in the face, i would laugh at you for not understanding what i said. :rolleyes:
:wtf:
When I said "Say what," I was referring to the fact that I couldn't discern your point from your post.
Seriously, that's one Hell of a language barrier.
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i'm ot gonna pirate it.
but i've waited 2 years for this, and i want it SO bad!
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What's this? A class-action suit? I'd better buy a copy of Spore right now!
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seriously, has this been confirmed?
and does anyone have any ideas when a *LEGAL* copy will be safe?
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Never, most likely.
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SecuROM is far less evil than Starforce
This is highly debatable. Starforce is actually much easier to remove from a system than Securom.
SecuROM doesn't cause hardware failure. Starforce wins for evil.
Also, Homeworld 2 is not relevant here. The form of Securom under discussion is version 7 and onward, first seen in some 2005 games, which was quite different from the previous versions.
Wasn't saying that made SecuROM any less bad, just that the company does actually acknowledge and support problems with its software. Which is better than not. No SecuROM at all is still better than that.
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SecuROM doesn't cause hardware failure. Starforce wins for evil.
That only occurred in some rare cases if it failed its check hundreds of times. I'm not sure whether it's any worse than things like the context menu crash with Mass Effect that I brought up in the other thread, which came suddenly and without warning. I know a few people on another forum who ended up formatting due to that before the fix was released (by the publisher, not Sony).
It can be debated which one is more nasty, but the bottom line is you do not want either one on your system.
Wasn't saying that made SecuROM any less bad, just that the company does actually acknowledge and support problems with its software. Which is better than not. No SecuROM at all is still better than that.
I will admit that I find your story that Sony actually provided a cracked version to you directly quite hard to believe. :p Even if they wanted to do that, it would probably violate contracts with the publisher. A more likely scenario is that an official patch that fixed the problem was already available and they simply sent you that.
Most other people who have contacted with them directly say that they don't provide any assistance with specific games (which makes sense since their clients are the publishers, not the end users).
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As far as I'm concerned, StarForce is more evil than SecuROM. As of now, I have both Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and Mass Effect installed on my computer. If you didn't know, Splinter Cell requires StarForce and Mass Effect, an EA game, installs SecuROM. With Mass Effect, I have seen little system performance problems. With Splinter Cell, I have been unable to play the game on my Vista x64 Home Premium laptop. All I've gotten information-wise for being able to play Splinter Cell is "install the new StarForce drivers." I can neither download the StarForce drivers from their website nor can I get StarForce to update itself. IMHO, No DRM > SecuROM > StarForce. Anyone who buys EA games should know that every game EA releases has SecuROM on it. EA's done it for the past, what, year or so? Don't get me wrong, though I hate both forms of DRM. There are ways to get past DRM and pirates know them.
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Yes, SCCT is known to not work on a 64-bit OS without a crack. I suppose you could get a newer Starforce game which would install the updated driver, but of course, why would anyone want to do that?
As for EA having used Securom for a while, I don't see how that makes it any more tolerable. The activation limits are what has prompted the recent backlash against EA, but those are just the tip of the iceberg to anyone familiar with this software.
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seriously, does this actually DO anything to your comp? Does it just prevent copying?
Because before my parents knew, they said i could get it this weekend.
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Digital Rights Management is a farce, in my opinion. It doesn't stop piracy; it just encourages it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/14/AR2008091400885.html
Hooray for the pirates.
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Any copyright management means don't stop piracy. They just make normal people's lives harder.
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Any copyright management means don't stop piracy. They just make normal people's lives harder.
/me nods to that.
:nod:
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*reads article*
So, this just means you can't have it on more than 3 comps?
good for me, my family only ever uses 2 anyway, and one's an old macbook...
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We could always go back to code wheels...
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*reads article*
So, this just means you can't have it on more than 3 comps?
good for me, my family only ever uses 2 anyway, and one's an old macbook...
They'll probably authenticate it over the Internet. Install it thrice with the same key, and that's it.
We could always go back to code wheels...
...or cracks...
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We could always go back to code wheels...
...or cracks...
What do you mean? Code wheels are probably the least annoying copy protection scheme right after cd-keys. I don't see why anyone would complain at it.
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Oh, I thought you were talking about a type of copy-protection circumvention. :lol:
Actually, I don't mind using CD keys that much either.
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I think that the best copy-protection software out there is Steam.
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meh, i'm getting it today anyway...
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meh, i'm getting it today anyway...
Here's what you do, you go to the store and buy it, and download it from torrents never having opened the box.
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meh, i'm getting it today anyway...
Here's what you do, you go to the store and buy it, and download it from torrents never having opened the box.
I shoulda done that damnit.
That was 50 bucks I could've used to buy NWN2 Gold.
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People should buy a game legally...
but once they've bought it, downloading it is IMHO no longer illegal.
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People should buy a game legally...
but once they've bought it, downloading it is IMHO no longer illegal.
Indeed. I'd concider it "making back-ups for personal usage". That can't be wrong.
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*reads article*
So, this just means you can't have it on more than 3 comps?
good for me, my family only ever uses 2 anyway, and one's an old macbook...
Unless they've changed since I last looked, it's three lifetime hardware installs. :ick:
People should buy a game legally...
but once they've bought it, downloading it is IMHO no longer illegal.
Indeed. I'd concider it "making back-ups for personal usage". That can't be wrong.
Under the DMCA, it is illegal.
Then again, based on my interpretation, owning a computer is illegal under the DMCA.
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Being the pessimist I am, I'd bet EA is going to turn this around and sue the country rather than the country suing them.
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As far as I'm concerned, StarForce is more evil than SecuROM. As of now, I have both Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and Mass Effect installed on my computer. If you didn't know, Splinter Cell requires StarForce and Mass Effect, an EA game, installs SecuROM. With Mass Effect, I have seen little system performance problems. With Splinter Cell, I have been unable to play the game on my Vista x64 Home Premium laptop. All I've gotten information-wise for being able to play Splinter Cell is "install the new StarForce drivers." I can neither download the StarForce drivers from their website nor can I get StarForce to update itself. IMHO, No DRM > SecuROM > StarForce. Anyone who buys EA games should know that every game EA releases has SecuROM on it. EA's done it for the past, what, year or so? Don't get me wrong, though I hate both forms of DRM. There are ways to get past DRM and pirates know them.
I legally own Chaos Theory and the only way I can get it to run properly is to apply a crack that removes the StarForce functionality. Given the known issues with StarForce killing drives (or at the very least, knocking down the DMA level) I'd actually recommend applying anti-StarForce cracks to any game that uses it.
Fortunately, with the enormous number of complaints against it and the obvious problems pretty much every major publisher has now abandoned them.
http://groups.google.com/group/boycott-starforce/web/games-list
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I will admit that I find your story that Sony actually provided a cracked version to you directly quite hard to believe. :p Even if they wanted to do that, it would probably violate contracts with the publisher. A more likely scenario is that an official patch that fixed the problem was already available and they simply sent you that
From my email (May 26, 2008):
Hello.
Thank you for your email.
I updated the file behind the link, this one will work:
Please download a new <HOMEWORLD2.EXE> from the link below. I would appreciate it if you could rename your current one to < C:\PROGRAM FILES\SIERRA\HOMEWORLD2\BIN\RELEASE\HOMEWORLD2.EXE.OLD >,extract the downloaded file into the application path mentioned and start the new application.
The link for the new file is:
<snipped>
If the problem persists, please send another analysis file of the latest executable to us.
If you have any further questions feel free to contact us.
Best regards,
SecuROM Support Team
SecuROM on the web: http://www.securom.com
or via e-mail: [email protected]
*** Please include the subject line exactly as written above including your ticket number in all communications to ensure proper handling ***
<email address snipped> sent the following support request on 05/24/2008---------------------
The new EXE is generating an "Original disc could not be found or authenticated" error. I ran the analysis again, the file is attached. Note that since filing the issue I upgraded my video drivers (to the Catalyst 8.5 series) and Homeworld2 has now been successfully launching roughly 50% of the time with the original EXE. When it doesn't launch, the original EXE still does not generate any error. The new EXE generates the error listed on each launch attempt, but still takes 15-30 seconds to do so while the DVD drive access light continually flashes.
Note that Daemon Tools IS currently installed on my system but it is disabled at present (no drives active, and the actual program is not open nor is the process running in the background).
As for the disc itself, the front is labelled entirely in black with "Homeworld 2 Space Strategy Survival" written in silver, and the identifying code of "MED2027" stamped at the bottom. The reverse side of the disc in the central data region has IFPI 1.554 Sony DADC stamped on one side of the circle and "<disc identifier snipped>" around the other side.Don't know if that has any relevance.
Thanks,
Ryan
They had it working less than 4 days after I sent the initial support request in. I thought that was pretty good, given their reputation.
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People should buy a game legally...
but once they've bought it, downloading it is IMHO no longer illegal.
Indeed. I'd concider it "making back-ups for personal usage". That can't be wrong.
Under the DMCA, it is illegal.
Then again, based on my interpretation, owning a computer is illegal under the DMCA.
The DMCA makes portable CD players, car stereo devices, and nearly every home electronics device made before 1996 illegal. I will not now, nor will I ever, recognize it as law.
With that said, downloading content is not under any circumstance against any law. Distribution of copyrighted content is against the law, and not just because of the DMCA.
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They had it working less than 4 days after I sent the initial support request in. I thought that was pretty good, given their reputation.
From that email it looks like they changed the Securom options in the exe or simply put in a newer version of it, not removed it (which, as I said, would likely piss off the publisher). Still, it's impressive that they are doing anything to help at all. It's a lot more than I would have expected considering what they have put into the software itself.
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A class-action suit means that if she wins, the owners of Spore get paid?
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A class-action suit means that if she wins, the owners of Spore get paid?
:wtf:
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A class-action suit means that if she wins, the owners of Spore get paid?
Tell me this is sarcasm.
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:lol:
*wipess real tears of laughter from eyes*
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...is there supposed to be something funny here? I took his statement to be asking if the people who purchased Spore would potentially be paid if this woman won the suit...and unless I've misconstrued every reference to Erin Brockovich ever made, that's exactly how a class-action suit would work.
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Funny's circumsatantial. I justthought it was a funny reply tbqh. No offense :D
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...is there supposed to be something funny here? I took his statement to be asking if the people who purchased Spore would potentially be paid if this woman won the suit...and unless I've misconstrued every reference to Erin Brockovich ever made, that's exactly how a class-action suit would work.
Unless you mistake owner for developer. Which is what I did.
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... What?
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A class-action suit means that if she wins, the owners of Spore get paid?
If she wins every person who bought a copy of Spore legally can claim (a very small amount of) compensation for the damage caused to their machines by installing it.
Individually it doesn't cost much but it can be a large amount of money for the publishers. Take-Two lost a million dollar class action suit over over the fact that some people had been traumatized by the fact that after buying GTA : San Andreas they could go on the internet, search for one of a handful of websites which had an exe file that allowed them to alter the game so that there were low res pixelated sex scenes in it.
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Mmmmm. So if it succeeds I get paid.
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I just hope it succeeds so they'll remove the damn restrictions and thus let me buy it without breaking my "No DRM on this computer" principle.
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^
agreed, I think this is an alright game.
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^
agreed, I think this is an AWESOME game.
Fixed.
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i got it on saturday... it's good, though frankly i think my $$$ might have been better spent on Force Unleashed. the last 3 levels just don't have any real... FEEL to them... they're kinda empty...
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Because of course titan would go buy it after reading all this :rolleyes: The point is your money would've been better spent on just about any other game, because you can only install it Three times. Ever.
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Yep. I feel the same way. If I hadn't decided to buy spore, I could've gotten NWN2 Gold for the same price at a IT convention.