Hard Light Productions Forums

Hosted Projects - Standalone => The Babylon Project => Public Development => Topic started by: emi_100 on October 26, 2009, 01:48:14 am

Title: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: emi_100 on October 26, 2009, 01:48:14 am

TBP  WITH  EMI's  NORMAL  MAPPING

So..basically, TBP models.. but with normal maps   ;)

Small preview...
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/26/screen0088.th.jpg) (http://img408.imageshack.us/i/screen0088.jpg/)

(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8048/screen0085.th.jpg) (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/screen0085.jpg/)

(http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/4980/screen0065.th.jpg) (http://img2.imageshack.us/i/screen0065.jpg/)

   
Pictures of comparison:
-DELETED-

So what do you think? :)

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on October 26, 2009, 01:53:44 am

Attached file is corrupted.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: emi_100 on October 26, 2009, 12:14:55 pm

Updates on main post.. :)

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: Sushi on October 26, 2009, 12:49:40 pm

WANT.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: Vidmaster on October 26, 2009, 02:19:28 pm

Shiny. Now for the other hundret  ;7

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on October 26, 2009, 02:45:06 pm

Looks good.  Don't know about you Vid but I would have no problem with adding this type of enhancement to Zathras.  It's controllable by a launcher flag that is by default off for TBP I believe.  Anyone that wanted to use it could simply enable normal maps.  Those that don't can turn it off. 

BTW if you are that good with mapping there are a couple of ships that could use some fixes.  So if you have time let me know and I'll go through and get you a list of issues.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: emi_100 on October 26, 2009, 06:31:42 pm

Quote from: Vidmaster on October 26, 2009, 02:19:28 pm

Shiny. Now for the other hundret  ;7

It take me 10 seconds per normal map, so I think I can do it :)
The only problem is to upload those files because don't have a "GREAT" internet connection :doubt: ..

Quote from: FUBAR-BDHR on October 26, 2009, 02:45:06 pm

Looks good.

Thanks :) I use the FS2 media VP 3.6.10 shades system. So I think there will not problem with that.

Quote from: FUBAR-BDHR on October 26, 2009, 02:45:06 pm

BTW if you are that good with mapping there are a couple of ships that could use some fixes.  So if you have time let me know and I'll go through and get you a list of issues.

Mmmm.. I don't know if Im good, but I find easy deal with normals. I don't have much experince with regular maping :P
I will have free time tomorrow, let me see and I see what I can do  :)

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on October 26, 2009, 07:26:40 pm

Well the one I can think of off the top of my head is the Hyperion/Midwinter model.  Since it was done mirrored all the text an the logo is backwards on one side. 

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: Commander Zane on October 26, 2009, 08:08:14 pm

Now all they need are HTL'ed models.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: Thaeris on October 26, 2009, 09:27:35 pm

Those are very good looking maps indeed.  :yes:

     ...I think my favorite thing about TBP is how the dev staff is so resolute in maintaining that 3.4b is final, yet additions that update the mod like Zathras and possibly this (in the future) continue to pop up...  :P

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: Vidmaster on October 27, 2009, 03:07:29 pm

the Zathras Mod was made by the "staff" for exactly that purpose  :)
To have an easy, understandable and supportable way to add things like this.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: emi_100 on October 27, 2009, 04:16:35 pm

Quote from: Commander Zane on October 26, 2009, 08:08:14 pm

Now all they need are HTL'ed models.

What's that? ..highpoly?

Quote from: Thaeris on October 26, 2009, 09:27:35 pm

Those are very good looking maps indeed.  :yes:

Thanks :)

Updates: I've made a lot of normals today, 106 excatly... some of ones have to be remakes  :doubt:

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: captain-custard on January 20, 2010, 03:22:13 pm

me wants these now please

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: Ker.Soth on January 20, 2010, 04:19:47 pm

Pretty cool maps. Bin'Tak especially looks great.I'd like seeing that in the future Zathras since Fubar says it's doable.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: Dragon on January 22, 2010, 12:22:36 pm

What's the status of the normal maps?

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: IPAndrews on February 05, 2010, 04:25:47 pm

Quote from: Vidmaster on October 27, 2009, 03:07:29 pm

the Zathras Mod was made by the "staff" for exactly that purpose  :)

Ooh you have "staff" now. Well done. Good luck!

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: IPAndrews on February 05, 2010, 04:27:41 pm

Tomcat's G'QUan looks nice like this. I uvmapped it and made the lower lods. Tomcat never did like making lods. Too boring. Someone whould do this to all the ships

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: captain-custard on February 05, 2010, 04:38:45 pm

many ships are missing lods at the moment , one of the reasons that TBP can kill fps , but this is on the todo list , a long with bad textures etc

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: IPAndrews on February 05, 2010, 04:41:24 pm

Have fun with that.  :D

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: captain-custard on February 05, 2010, 04:47:04 pm

if only you had put the same amount of effort into the quality control of the project as you do in trolling we wouldnt be here ....... ;7

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: IPAndrews on February 05, 2010, 05:04:47 pm

Whose trolling? Christ you guys are so aggressive you can't even hold a conversation.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: General Battuta on February 05, 2010, 05:15:57 pm

Let's go easy, guys.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: captain-custard on February 05, 2010, 05:27:39 pm

my fault i bit ,  i wont delete it but if the mods or admins see fit too then they can , other than that i shall be silent now

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: IPAndrews on February 05, 2010, 05:31:29 pm

Quote from: andicirk on February 05, 2010, 04:38:45 pm

a long with bad textures etc

Bit what? I'm just having a laugh with you man. Calm down. Like I said I did LODs for many models. It's a thankless task. Nobody ever says "Wow what a great LOD". Except Maverick once who said that about the lodding on my Drakh Raider. Which was pretty funky.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: Dragon on February 06, 2010, 01:02:50 pm

Textures in TBP are not very good (some are even in JPG format), but the main problem is that a lot of them are used on a single model.
LOD textures are not needed, but they can reduce FPS just by being there. The less textures a model has, the better preformance.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: IPAndrews on February 06, 2010, 01:42:29 pm

When we first started developing the uvmapping tools were not very good. We were using the texturing facilities of the early versions of trueSpace. Also the engine couldn't handle large textures. Meaning if you spread your one small texture out over a larger fighter you got low resolution. Later on we got hold of LithUnwrap which made uvmapping easier and the engine got better at handling bigger textures. So when you see a fighter with one large texture as apposed to a few small ones it's generally a newer model. Probably uvmapped by me as I got reasonably good at it - I think. I wrote a tutorial on it actually. Thing is though sometimes you need to do texture repeats and then it's difficult to avoid using separate textures. Especially if you need to repeat on X and Y. See Babylon 5 for a working example. That thing has a huge surface area which demanded repeats on both axis to cover with any resolution. Still we tried to keep to a couple of textures toward the end for the bigger ships. I think I mapped the Q'Quan with 2 LOD0 textures. Not many for a big ship.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: Wanderer on February 06, 2010, 03:00:46 pm

It is a good result, however what i think Dragon was after was that the lower lods could make use of the same maps as the LOD0 and therefore utilize just a single mipmapped set of textures per ship regardless of the LODs or debris.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: IPAndrews on February 06, 2010, 03:39:41 pm

Quote from: Wanderer on February 06, 2010, 03:00:46 pm

It is a good result, however what i think Dragon was after was that the lower lods could make use of the same maps as the LOD0 and therefore utilize just a single mipmapped set of textures per ship regardless of the LODs or debris.

That'll work as long as the uvmapping scheme allows it. It will in some cases. It won't in others. You'll be surprised how many ships, and I could name a truckload off the top of my head, where the uvmapping of the different LODs is quite different because the geometry of the LODs is quite different. But if you were to rebuild the ships from scratch you could no doubt do it in such a way whereby all the LODs could be uvmapped the same way.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: Dragon on February 17, 2010, 03:59:27 pm

TBP was made a long time ago, so it's no doubt it looks a bit dated.
I think that we need more HTL B5 craft, done with modern techniques, normal maps and Hi-res textures.
Those ships have potential, but they're like mods for retail, great in their times, now show their age compared to other models.
TBP did a great job at making tables to emulate B5 (I never seen it, so I don't really know) and making a semirealistic flight model.
I think that Zatharas will someday become something akin to mediavps for TBP, improving the models while keeping the gameplay.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: Bobboau on February 20, 2010, 02:44:08 am

yes, a progressive replacement of the current assets would not be a bad idea, once the technical issues with the current set are ironed out.

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: Skullar on April 08, 2010, 04:34:54 am

What are normal maps ?

Are the previous ones unnormal ?

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: -Norbert- on April 08, 2010, 08:09:02 am

As far as I gathered those "normal maps" are what other games call "bump mapping". They simulate lighting that looks like it has structure, when below the texture and normal map there is really only a flat surface. It makes the model look far more complex than the polygons below the surface really are.

I hope I didn't mix any terms up here....

Title: Re: TBP with Emi's Normals
Post by: The E on April 08, 2010, 08:48:35 am

Other games call these normal maps as well....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_mapping