[The E]

M22. Which I thought I fixed, but apparently didn't. It's fixed in SVN now.

[Spoon]

High ROF is usefull for dealing with Shivan fighters such as Dragons or Manticores, which are fast and difficult to hit.

Interesting, cause I very much perfer using weapons with a slower ROF and more punch against those ships. Since they aren't going to be in my sight for long, so getting 1 or 2 shots in will have to count. Spray and pray weapons like the Balor are IMHO better against slower targets where you can bring them down with sustained fire.

BTW: I miss my old super duper overpowered Balor 

[Fury]

It seems many think Balor is weaker than it actually is. In terms of raw shield DPS, Subach has 52.5, Balor 85 and PromS 85.7. Balor is less than 1 DPS behind Prom S. Hull DPS of Subach is 67.5, Balor 59.5, PromS 77.1. So Balor is only weaker against hull, which is just fine for the role it is intended.

[Timerlane]

Does the "cycle" flag alter damage output in any way, or is it basically half the guns of a given bank firing every half fire-wait time?

High ROF is usefull for dealing with Shivan fighters such as Dragons or Manticores, which are fast and difficult to hit.

It would be, but since the shot velocity is 2/3 higher(450 vs 750), the additional accuracy at range makes all the difference. And it's even more of an issue if you're outclassed by your opponent in handling and/or speed.

The Dragon Awakes(especially in an Aurora) and Frankenstein's Monsters are both much easier if you've brought paired Prom-S. TDA due to the fact that you're lucky to get a dogfighting Dragon in your sights for more than a second or two at a time, and FM due to the fact that once the Manticore decides to start running and gets more than a few hundred meters away, that lead indicator quickly starts extending out multiple ship-lengths, and it becomes very difficult to keep it in a solid killing stream, as even a slight change in vector by the Manticore means a significant readjustment.

As it is, I'd call it a Terran answer to the Mekhu HL-7. The only problem with that being Vasudan fighters generally focus on agility, letting them make the most of a high ROF/damage done over time cannon, whereas the only "modern" Terran craft I'd call particularly agile are the Perseus and Kulas.

If it were me, I'd boost the Balor's shot velocity up into the Avenger(500s) range to make its effective engagement range a little longer. Still noticeably less than the Kayser(650), but a cut above the Subach. JMO, though.

[Fury]

Damage is same with and without cycle. Personally I see no reason to alter Balor's stats.

[Locutus of Borg]

Well, I've finished BPDC, and I have to admit I'm a bit saddened by how it all came together. Most Freespace campaigns, inlcuding the two game main campaigns don't have a main character. This is because that character is you; the way that character thinks is shaped by the opinions of the player. The use of an actual character in BP as the protagonist was a risk. The campaign really lost me when Bei started with the metaphysical stuff about his entire life culminating in the encounter with the Vishnans. I played the rest of the campaign through, and I must say the FREDDING and voice acting was superb, but the story just dropped off once the Vishnans showed up. When the fleet arrived in Sol and attacked the United Earth ship, I felt the campaign lost all believability. IMO, the story just fell apart, but the FREDDING and voice work were simply amazing.

 
Most video games use a speaking protagonist, and players identify with them just fine. If you don't like those games, that's fine. Blue Planet is not plain FreeSpace; it's Blue Planet.

You certainly aren't obliged to like the story, but the plot as presented in-game should be coherent and self-explanatory. It doesn't connect with everybody, but a great deal of effort was put into making it believable, consistent, and rich. Both the Vishnans and the events in the last mission were carefully foreshadowed throughout the campaign; you just need to pay attention.

Have you read the fiction on the Blue Planet website? It's not necessary to understand or enjoy the story, but it might quiet some concerns you have.

In any case, the conceit of the non-speaking protagonist is sort of a contrivance that often does a lot to harm suspension of disbelief. I think a lot more is gained by abandoning it than by adhering to an obsolete narrative fixture, but you're free to disagree.

Blue Planet isn't for everybody, and it might not be for you.

Thank's for not erupting at me.

Let me clarify what I meant. It's not that I don't like games with speaking protagonists, it's just that having one can possibly lead to alienating the player. In other games, like RPGs, there is a lot more room for a narrative. in FreeSpace, all you have are missions, briefings, and in the case of BP, a few in-game renderred cutscenes.

I guess my major gripe is that I felt disconnected from Bei by the end.

[General Battuta]

Fair enough. Sam's experiences are pretty profoundly jarring, even to him. He goes through a NDE, after all, which means that the person coming out of the far end of Find Your Way really isn't the same person who went into it. It's not always easy to empathize with.

That said, I do think the addition of voice acting helped make Sam more sympathetic.

And I don't erupt particularly easily, so no worries.

[QuantumDelta]

Oh ****. Brainwave.
Mind-of-Alpha1.

[Vidmaster]

finished it too now. (did play it when it first came out since everybody said it was awesome and it was going to be voice acted  , yeah I know foolish of me to wait).

It really is something. Despite the ending.

[General Battuta]

Did you have any problems with the ending?

If you think it doesn't make sense, you should read the Blue Planet website. Go to 'media', 'prose', read 'The Reunion' and 'Balance of Power'.

[manwiththemachinegun]

I think it's a safe bet that the Shivans and Vishnans will return at some point to the 'main' Freespace universe given what we learn in the BP prose. Namely, that the Shivans and Vishnans are evaluating the human race and Vasudans, and there was a crap load of menace in that spirit vision of the Vasudan Emperor's court jester.

There's also the fact that GTVA itself was supposed to be a sign that the Terrans and Vasudans had progressed beyond their baser natures. Now that's all falling apart with a new intra-specise war fought on shaky, but somewhat understandable grounds.

The Shivans didn't take their talking-to lightly, and it's not too great a jump to assume with their advance control of subspace they could send a 'message' to their counterparts in the main FS universe.

Mostly I want an excuse to fly the new Earth fighters against some Shivans. 

[Zex Marquise]

It has just occurred to me, regarding the Vishnans and Shivans being mystical destroyer/preserver beings, that it is entirely plausible that these races, along with the Brahmans, could have consciously chosen to form the Great Council and assume those delegated responsibilities, much like a space-United Nations. They don't have to be all-mystical or exist divinely according to a mandate from God. They could have chosen to do what they're doing now after becoming sufficiently advanced, so I think people should consider that before complaining about the plausibility of Vishnans existing purely to complement the Shivans.

So yeah...


Oh yeah, seems I was mistaken about slaying Ravana with the Helios. A damn shame Volition didn't make it so for the sake of allegory, but w/e. There's still plenty of hints dropped throughout the storyline of FS regarding the greater cosmology and mythos of the universe, between the Ancients and Bosch monologues.

[General Battuta]

Yep. Also worth pointing out that :V: pretty heavily hinted that the Shivans could be an engineered species, whether by themselves or others.

[NGTM-1R]

Spoiler:

In the Navy, the Officer in Command of the Vessel (as opposed to the Rear Admiral or whoever onboard) is usually a Captain, and retains control of the ship, if I remember correctly. If Bei is a Captain, he wouldn't necessarily outrank the CO's of the ships in the Battle Group, thus it doesn't really make a lot of sense to have the entire Battle Group at Bei's unquestioned Command.

Certainly not the destroyers and corvettes at least. Cruisers depending on crew complement might have a Commander in charge that Bei might in theory outrank.

[Qent]

@Fury: If it were only lower damage I wouldn't mention it, but when it's combined with a shorter range and higher power consumption, I don't see ROF being enough to give the Balor a niche beside the Prometheus. I'm not sure how to say this, but I'm not pushing for you to change the stats. I'm just saying that I get uneasy when one weapon is totally eclipsed by another (as the Prometheus R was).

@Locutus: I think I can imagine how you feel. But in my case, I felt like Sam's decisions (and reactions) were ones that I could plausibly have made. So, yeah, BP's approach was definitely risky, but I personally found it was worth it.

[Herra Tohtori]

For me, it's not the DPS that matters, it's the damage per single trigger squeeze.

Which for me means that all weapons need to fire at once, or at rate of fire approaching that used in WW2 fighter airplane weaponry (900 rpm for 13mm MG 131 machine gun, 750-850 rpm for Browning .50 machine gun, 750 rpm for 20mm MG 151/20 cannon, 650 rpm for 30mm MK108 cannon...).

The problem with cycle flag is that it means you can't fire all weapons at once. It would only be useful if the rate of fire was high enough that single trigger press would allow it to cycle all the weapons at the time you have a firing solution. This does not happen with the Balor, so it's useless for me. Wingmen gain a lot more use out of it, especially if they are ship-guardianed for storytelling purposes.

As a result, I'll rather have PromS or even Subachs as I can fire snapshots much more efficiently when all guns fire at once, rather than keep the enemy long time at sights during a dogfight so I can hose him with ineffective rounds, no matter how high the technical damage per second value for the weapon is. And that's not because I couldn't do it, and more related to the fact that keeping the enemy at your sights for prolonged periods of time makes you vulnerable to other hostiles targeting you...

That and playing IL-2 Sturmovik kinda makes you proficient at fast deflection shooting and also gets you used to very powerful primary weapons (basically when you hit the enemy, you win the fight in most cases unless you're equipped with machine guns only).

[Timerlane]

@Fury: If it were only lower damage I wouldn't mention it, but when it's combined with a shorter range and higher power consumption, I don't see ROF being enough to give the Balor a niche beside the Prometheus. I'm not sure how to say this, but I'm not pushing for you to change the stats. I'm just saying that I get uneasy when one weapon is totally eclipsed by another (as the Prometheus R was).

I only peeked at the new table briefly, but I don't think the power usage changed since BP 3.6.10; IIRC, 0.1 power usage per shot, for 17 base power, .7 hull multiplier, and 1.0 shield multiplier, where as the Subach is .2 energy usage per shot, 15 base power, .9 hull multiplier, and .7 shield multiplier.

The Prom-S actually uses 1 whole energy point per shot, with 30 base power, .9 hull multiplier and 1.0 shield multiplier. The Balor is in fact wonderfully energy efficient, and could arguably replace the Subach entirely; it just doesn't seem to be in the same league of an offensive weapon as the Prom-S and Kayser, which The Balance of Power Part 2 suggests it is:

...Ironically, the Erinyes heavy fighter – popular among SOC units and heavy fighter squadrons – was not agile enough to stand up to the firepower of UEF gunships, and more than one GTVA ace lost her life in the cockpit of these formerly superior ships.

The GTVA's major advantage was the Balor cannon. Modular, powerful, and intimidating, the Balor became the bread-and-butter weapon of GTVA pilots. The UEF fighter corps grew to fear the Balor intensely. Novice pilots generally lost their life when attacked by Myrmidons or Persei wielding Balors: the oncoming arcs of silver light triggered an instinctive reaction to break and turn away, and the Balor chewed through both shields and UEF armor with ease.

Aces in Erinyes, likely wielding top-tier cannons like the Prom-S/Kayser and Maxim were outmatched by UEF fighters, but Persei and Myrmidons with Balors made the UEF wet their collective pants in fear? Admittedly, I don't know exactly what UEF fighters are like, but as it is, I'm not seeing it.

A 'machine gun' should do more damage per second than a 'sniper rifle', as there's a strong chance that all of the fire is not going to hit, especially when the machine gun's shots travel slower.

And yes, as the above poster mentioned(yay, slow typing), damage-over-time weapons also leave the user vulnerable to others' fire. A slow firing, high-power gun lets you snap off a shot, jink while it recycles, and line up again to fire the next round, whereas a rapid-fire, low-power gun forces you to fly a far more predictable pattern to stay lined up on target.

[General Battuta]

When 'Balance of Power' was written I believe the Balor was slightly different, for better or worse.

However, the issue with the aces in the Erinyes getting their asses kicked has more to do with the fact that the Erinyes sucks. And I say that out of our gameplay experience in WiH, not any particular theorycrafting.

[Herra Tohtori]

Yes. Persei are fearsome. Myrmidons are terrifying. The Nyx are nightmare-inducing. Erinyes... not so much.

[Qent]

I only peeked at the new table briefly, but I don't think the power usage changed since BP 3.6.10; IIRC, 0.1 power usage per shot, for 17 base power, .7 hull multiplier, and 1.0 shield multiplier, where as the Subach is .2 energy usage per shot, 15 base power, .9 hull multiplier, and .7 shield multiplier.

The Prom-S actually uses 1 whole energy point per shot, with 30 base power, .9 hull multiplier and 1.0 shield multiplier. The Balor is in fact wonderfully energy efficient, and could arguably replace the Subach entirely.

You do remember correctly, but the Balor's energy per shot has since been increased to 0.6.