Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Arts & Talents => Topic started by: Marcov on October 14, 2009, 09:28:50 am
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Since the "Freespace Crossover Pics" has somehow turned into a crossover debate, I just posted this so anyone can discuss here in peace without having to worry about being on topic. A few questions:
1. SSJ Gigas from Inferno vs. Executor from SW - which is more overkill?
2. Can the Shivans whip other Sci-Fic universes' asses? why?
Anybody, feel free to ask any questions to start discussions.
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What does this have to do with fan-fiction and art?
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Why do you feel the need to make tons of new topics?
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Oh, let him be. Friendly community!
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Marcov, you're asking about the Gigas? Really? That means you haven't heard of the SH Gargant. :drevil:
As to #2, well, the whole notion of this is completely pointless, seeing as no two universes follow the same 'reality', if you will. So it all comes down to a question of coolness, which is relative.
To answer your question, yes, Shivans kick ass :cool:
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Oh, let him be. Friendly community!
I'm just being partially funny, but that boy needs to slow down or he'll wear out the new topic button.
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1- Well... I would fear the Gigas firepower more than the Executors, which seems to be built to be resilient more than to be deadly.
2- Yes, they can.
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why we comparing the juggernauts to executor SSD? what about the Eclipse SSD packing a super laser 1 third the strength of the original death star main weapon
in that case star wars wins because as far as i know know beam weapon in FS is powerful enough to crack a planets crust and capship shields got to be an advantage especially when the shields can survive being rammed by another capship
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... FS beams cut through shields :wtf:
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We don't know. We have no idea if SW shields work like FS shields. We don't know if FS ships can jump when an Interdictor's present or if the Interdictor makes it easier. We don't know if a turbolaser volley would melt an Orion or just act like a blob salvo.
About the only thing we can compare accurately are populations, industrial bases, and travel speeds, where we find Star Wars has a huge strategic advantage. (A SW ship could cross FreeSpace space in minutes.)
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Fusion Pile Generators and Xasers beat Ion reactors and LAsors :p
Although Leia in slave outfit beats ZZod in bikini :ick:
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Fusion Pile Generators and Xasers beat Ion reactors and LAsors :p
Although Leia in slave outfit beats ZZod in bikini :ick:
Agreed.
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We don't know. We have no idea if SW shields work like FS shields. We don't know if FS ships can jump when an Interdictor's present or if the Interdictor makes it easier. We don't know if a turbolaser volley would melt an Orion or just act like a blob salvo.
About the only thing we can compare accurately are populations, industrial bases, and travel speeds, where we find Star Wars has a huge strategic advantage. (A SW ship could cross FreeSpace space in minutes.)
I see.
They can outrun us, but they can't outgun us!
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The Shivans are obviously Sith, red and black fixation and urge to kill stuff, they'd eat the Empire/Republic alive.
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and yet in one book three jedi students crash a star destroyer into a planet using the force to drag the ship
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I'd say that individually for size that freespace ships are more powerfull, problem is the Empire has the sheer weight of numbers. Also, I postulate that hyperspace is slower than subspace, but, of course, you don't need a node for hyperspace.
Also, yes, Shivans win. If you survive, it's because they let you.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Hm, the force, yeah, that may be a factor, though getting enough jedi to make a difference may be tough.
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Actually, given the transit time from Delta Serpentis to Earth in 'Good Luck,' hyperspace is faster than subspace.
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Yeah, as mentioned elsewhere, Naga Sadow could blow up suns. But I put it to you. . . That through the miracle of wizardpower, that the Shivans would encounter the Lucasverse during the battle of Hoth era where only four force users exist :)
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problem is it is rare in SW that any real world distances are used in interstellar travel and as another poin in SW you have to make multiple jumps if your course transects a large gravity well and we dont know if that is a factor in FS!!
just for fun though i still say SW wins the debate
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Doubtful. . . . . You see.. . . . . .
We have Alpha one.
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And the entire Star Wars universe has FIAT.
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Actually, given the transit time from Delta Serpentis to Earth in 'Good Luck,' hyperspace is faster than subspace.
Which makes sense, since hypersonic is faster than subsonic. ;7
But doesn't Star Wars actually use hyperspeed?
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Hyperspeed is the speed you go in Hyperspace :p
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Star wars ships go to lightspeed not hyperspeed ("make the jump to lightspeed"). But they jump to Hyperspace.
Star Wars ships are pretty much the fastest ships in any universe from what I've seen . . .
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Except for Stargate... :nervous:
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Star Wars ships are pretty much the fastest ships in any universe from what I've seen . . .
No way! are you actually forgetting Ludicrous Speed?
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No benchmark, doesn't count :p.
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The benchmark is Plaid. :p
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I don't get the FIAT reference, are you referring to the car make? I just can't place it. . . Sorry ;)
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Doubtful. . . . . You see.. . . . . .
We have Alpha one.
Luke Skywalker, Baron Soontir Fel and Wedge Godamn Antilles
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Doubtful. . . . . You see.. . . . . .
We have Alpha one.
Luke Skywalker, Baron Soontir Fel and Wedge Godamn Antilles
Yeah sure, WHO????? and no, not really
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Doubtful. . . . . You see.. . . . . .
We have Alpha one.
Luke Skywalker, Baron Soontir Fel and Wedge Godamn Antilles
Yeah sure, WHO????? and no, not really
Luke we all know,
Soontir Fel is Wedge's brother in law and the empire's best pilot after Vader untill he joins the Chiss
Wedge, we all know as the guy that pulled out on the first DS run with luke, canonically he is the only person that can claim a full deathstar silhouette on his fighter as the only person in combat against both DS (you got a half silhouette just for flying combat against one), he is the only person to survive combat against both (his was the X-Wing that flew into the central core area of the second Deathstar) and all in all he is considered the best rebel/New Republic fighter pilot after luke
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Luke Skywalker, Baron Soontir Fel and Wedge Godamn Antilles
Yeah sure, WHO????? and no, not really
Luke we all know,
Soontir Fel is Wedge's brother in law and the empire's best pilot after Vader untill he joins the Chiss
Wedge, we all know as the guy that pulled out on the first DS run with luke, canonically he is the only person that can claim a full deathstar silhouette on his fighter as the only person in combat against both DS (you got a half silhouette just for flying combat against one), he is the only person to survive combat against both (his was the X-Wing that flew into the central core area of the second Deathstar) and all in all he is considered the best rebel/New Republic fighter pilot after luke
[/quote]
Soontir Fel is a no name that no one cares about. He's even got a dumb name to boot.
Luke sure, maybe he's equivalant to alpha 1 or Anakin but Wedge? No. Wedge is like Snipes and not any better.
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Luke Skywalker, Baron Soontir Fel and Wedge Godamn Antilles
Yeah sure, WHO????? and no, not really
Luke we all know,
Soontir Fel is Wedge's brother in law and the empire's best pilot after Vader untill he joins the Chiss
Wedge, we all know as the guy that pulled out on the first DS run with luke, canonically he is the only person that can claim a full deathstar silhouette on his fighter as the only person in combat against both DS (you got a half silhouette just for flying combat against one), he is the only person to survive combat against both (his was the X-Wing that flew into the central core area of the second Deathstar) and all in all he is considered the best rebel/New Republic fighter pilot after luke
Soontir Fel is a no name that no one cares about. He's even got a dumb name to boot.
Luke sure, maybe he's equivalant to alpha 1 or Anakin but Wedge? No. Wedge is like Snipes and not any better.
[/quote]
Ignorant Heathen!
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Wedge is filler :p
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Soontir Fel is a no name that no one cares about. He's even got a dumb name to boot.
Luke sure, maybe he's equivalant to alpha 1 or Anakin but Wedge? No. Wedge is like Snipes and not any better.
Ignorant Heathen!
Sorry, but if he's not in the movies, he's not important.
Actually pretty much everything outside of the original trilogy is not that important.
Maybe if the EU had a lick of creativity to it I might care a little more.
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Wedge is the biggest badass in Star Wars.
He takes on both Death Stars. He lives. He captures Coruscant, he lives. He takes down Isard. He tips the balance in the critical battle against Thrawn. He rams a mother****ing Super Star Destroyer into a mother****ing Vong worldship.
All with zero Force sensitivity!
Soontir Fel is a no name that no one cares about. He's even got a dumb name to boot.
Luke sure, maybe he's equivalant to alpha 1 or Anakin but Wedge? No. Wedge is like Snipes and not any better.
Ignorant Heathen!
Sorry, but if he's not in the movies, he's not important.
Actually pretty much everything outside of the original trilogy is not that important.
Maybe if the EU had a lick of creativity to it I might care a little more.
The best Star Wars material is in the EU - Traitor, Shatterpoint, the Zahn books.
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Wedge is the biggest badass in Star Wars.
He rams a mother****ing Super Star Destroyer into a mother****ing Vong worldship.
two of my fave books revolving around Wedge
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Wedge is the biggest badass in Star Wars.
He takes on both Death Stars. He lives. He captures Coruscant, he lives. He takes down Isard. He tips the balance in the critical battle against Thrawn. He rams a mother****ing Super Star Destroyer into a mother****ing Vong worldship.
All with zero Force sensitivity!
When Stackpole writes about a character he might as well be a super hero so if he's Jedi or not is irrelevant. It's no coincidence that his Battletech characters are often referred to as "Victor and the superfriends"
The best Star Wars material is in the EU - Traitor, Shatterpoint, the Zahn books.
No the best star wars material is in the original movie trilogy. A lot of the other stuff I've heard of, seems like massive fan wank to me (especially anything regarding Boba Fett). Though the Zahn books are supposed to be pretty decent.
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Corran Horn was Stackpole's superdude in that series. Wedge is no Victor. Wedge is just quietly competent. Not to mention he's been written about by non-Stackpole people more time than not.
The original trilogy is good if you're a kid, but Traitor and Shatterpoint were at once ****-yeah entertaining and genuinely interesting meditations on the nature of the Star Warsverse.
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The best Star Wars material is in the EU - Traitor, Shatterpoint, the Zahn books.
You might be forgetting the fact that EU contains also the worst SW material - enough to drown a galaxy in it. In fact, the "best" material is like a drop of water in a desert of crap.
So yea...EU suckorz.
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The best Star Wars material is in the EU - Traitor, Shatterpoint, the Zahn books.
You might be forgetting the fact that EU contains also the worst SW material - enough to drown a galaxy in it. In fact, the "best" material is like a drop of water in a desert of crap.
So yea...EU suckorz.
What's your point? That plenty of it sucks somehow negates the works that are excellent? If that is your reasoning then the movie franchise should be considered mediocre since the prequels are absolute bantha **** and RotJ had Ewoks.
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Yeah, seriously. Two-thirds of the non-EU Star Wars material sucks. More if you count the TV shows.
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What's your point? That plenty of it sucks somehow negates the works that are excellent? If that is your reasoning then the movie franchise should be considered mediocre since the prequels are absolute bantha **** and RotJ had Ewoks.
'scuse me, but Ewoks rule. Just sayin'. :p
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What's your point? That plenty of it sucks somehow negates the works that are excellent? If that is your reasoning then the movie franchise should be considered mediocre since the prequels are absolute bantha **** and RotJ had Ewoks.
'scuse me, but Ewoks rule. Just sayin'. :p
Stormkeeper, I humbly request you burn this forumite for the crime of heresy. By stating Ewoks rule, he has committed a crime for which there can be no innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Dekker, you would pull that card. :p
And EU is good if you stick to Zahn, Stackpole, and a few others I can't remember.
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Hyperspace can only go along specified routes, or you have to constantly decelerate and change your course. In addition, with subspace you can pick the point you want to travel to and almost immediately arrive there, which is a tactical boon in a combat engagement. I'd say that over long distances, the two universes' ship speeds balance out.
Oh, and the Shivans would rip the Empire+Rebelllion+Republic+Ewoks a new one. Hell, the GTVA could do it. Their shields aren't as resilient as ours, and we have plasma turrets, repeating lasers, and beam weaponry. However, it seems that all other universes can engage from longer range.
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Nothing in that post is supported by anything in either universe.
Except for paragraph A, which is directly contradicted - hyperspace isn't restricted to particular routes, subspace is (nodes); the volume of space that the FSverse occupies could be crossed in minutes, along almost any path, by Star Wars ships.
The whole fun of crossover debates is sapped by this us/them thing. Your ego is not tied to the killing power of your universe.
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He did have a point- SW ships have to come out the direction they started in. FS ships do WHAT EVER THE HECK THEY WANT. :p
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Yeah, but they can also start and finish independent of any nodes whatsoever.
And if ego were tied to the killing power of your universe, the Death Star says hi. And the Sun Crusher. And the Galaxy Gun. And the other Death Star. And the other one. And the Eye (nostril) of Palpatine. Can't forget the World Devastators. Or the Eclipse and Eclipse II. (I'm missing one, I know it).
Oh, and the Shivans would rip the Empire+Rebelllion+Republic+Ewoks a new one. Hell, the GTVA could do it. Their shields aren't as resilient as ours, and we have plasma turrets, repeating lasers, and beam weaponry. However, it seems that all other universes can engage from longer range.
Turbolasers can and frequently do liquify fighters. Their shields are on EVERYSINGLE ONE of their ships, and any resiliency differences are immeasurable. They do have repeating lasers. They also have incredibly badass missiles, fighters that put FS's to shame, and the Force.
They also have the little matter of an entire galaxy behind them. the combined GTVA has, what, thirty systems? The Hutts have several hundred more than that by themselves.
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GTVA has less. And more than half are backwater systems that only have colonies for resources or simply colonies for the sake of small, pitiful colonies.
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(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/b/be/Thrawn.JPG)
This guy vs the massive brain trust that is GTVA Command.
Where is the betting counter?
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Nightcrawler is a massive fag. . .
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Star Destroyer main battery output is only in the kiloton range from ESB. FS fighters chuck things that do as much damage as a Star Destroyer's main battery with alarming regularity. As painful as it sounds, SW's weapons are actually much more plausible...and hence much less powerful. The subspace drive nullifies the range issue. The main gun of the Eclipses cracks continents, which is more or less what a Harbinger does. If the Rebellion had any weapon remotely comparable to Harbingers, the Death Star would have been a lot easier to handle; just excavate starting at the super laser.
On the other hand, SW has a significantly deeper reserves to call on. Including their answers to Alpha 1: the guys from X-Wing and TIE Fighter.
So they have two Alpha 1s.
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Don't forget the guy you play as for the last three missions of X-Wing, who is actually an EU character. Say hi to Keyan Faralander (sp?). THEN you have the unnamed awesomeness that is the player.
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Nothing in that post is supported by anything in either universe.
Except for paragraph A, which is directly contradicted - hyperspace isn't restricted to particular routes, subspace is (nodes); the volume of space that the FSverse occupies could be crossed in minutes, along almost any path, by Star Wars ships.
The whole fun of crossover debates is sapped by this us/them thing. Your ego is not tied to the killing power of your universe.
Paragraph A is not contradicted - it is supported. While you can make small hyperjumps, a large one requires an actual route, e.g. Perlemian Trade HS route. If you are not on a mapped route, you have to make "microjumps" which means constantly dropping out of hyperspace and jumping onto a new course to avoid becoming a crater on an asteroid or planet. I have not been deprived of the EU of SW. I know some of this (mostly useless) crap. And there are many contradictions within the SW universe that undermine the idea that they could cover the FSverse in minutes, e.g. the amount of time to travel from Point A to Point B always varies, even in SW canon sources.
Oh, and there is no way a Star Destroyer could challenge a Deimos. Those two forward guns would peel the Imp Star Deuce like an onion ;)
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Don't forget the guy you play as for the last three missions of X-Wing, who is actually an EU character. Say hi to Keyan Faralander (sp?). THEN you have the unnamed awesomeness that is the player.
Farlander is who you play for the whole campaign, except the last mission. I have the novella. I used to know the name of the guy you played in TIE Fighter too...
Kaloonzu: No, that's not how it works, sorry. :P
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Maarek Stele
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Nothing in that post is supported by anything in either universe.
Except for paragraph A, which is directly contradicted - hyperspace isn't restricted to particular routes, subspace is (nodes); the volume of space that the FSverse occupies could be crossed in minutes, along almost any path, by Star Wars ships.
The whole fun of crossover debates is sapped by this us/them thing. Your ego is not tied to the killing power of your universe.
Paragraph A is not contradicted - it is supported. While you can make small hyperjumps, a large one requires an actual route, e.g. Perlemian Trade HS route. If you are not on a mapped route, you have to make "microjumps" which means constantly dropping out of hyperspace and jumping onto a new course to avoid becoming a crater on an asteroid or planet. I have not been deprived of the EU of SW. I know some of this (mostly useless) crap. And there are many contradictions within the SW universe that undermine the idea that they could cover the FSverse in minutes, e.g. the amount of time to travel from Point A to Point B always varies, even in SW canon sources.
Oh, and there is no way a Star Destroyer could challenge a Deimos. Those two forward guns would peel the Imp Star Deuce like an onion ;)
And yet even a moderately fast Star Wars ship can cross a volume of space equal to the FreeSpace setting in minutes...maybe seconds. The fact that their galaxy is navigable by an average hyperspace-capable ship is testament to this. Subspace barely lets us hop around a tiny chunk of one spiral arm.
Assertion B (Deimos vs ISD) is one of those things we just have no way of determining...although you're giving a lot of credit to the puny TerSlash.
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While a TerSlash would only do superficial damage to a SD's hull, the slash of the beam would take out a lot of turrets and surface subsystems. While a Deimos or two wouldn't do all that much damage to a SD's hull integrity, a SD would lose a great deal of its firepower as the TerSlashes rake its hull.
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While a TerSlash would only do superficial damage to a SD's hull, the slash of the beam would take out a lot of turrets and surface subsystems. While a Deimos or two wouldn't do all that much damage to a SD's hull integrity, a SD would lose a great deal of its firepower as the TerSlashes rake its hull.
Unless an ISD's shields are substantially resistant to GTVA beam weaponry. :p
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While a TerSlash would only do superficial damage to a SD's hull, the slash of the beam would take out a lot of turrets and surface subsystems. While a Deimos or two wouldn't do all that much damage to a SD's hull integrity, a SD would lose a great deal of its firepower as the TerSlashes rake its hull.
And just how long would a Deimo's last under heavy turbo fire? It'll last longer under fire from a Sathana's than a ISD unless it's at the unguarded rear.
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While a TerSlash would only do superficial damage to a SD's hull, the slash of the beam would take out a lot of turrets and surface subsystems. While a Deimos or two wouldn't do all that much damage to a SD's hull integrity, a SD would lose a great deal of its firepower as the TerSlashes rake its hull.
Unless an ISD's shields are substantially resistant to GTVA beam weaponry. :p
Well they're rated at several TT per second.
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While a TerSlash would only do superficial damage to a SD's hull, the slash of the beam would take out a lot of turrets and surface subsystems. While a Deimos or two wouldn't do all that much damage to a SD's hull integrity, a SD would lose a great deal of its firepower as the TerSlashes rake its hull.
We have no idea if any of that is true.
It's all assumption and supposition and feh.
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He did have a point- SW ships have to come out the direction they started in. FS ships do WHAT EVER THE HECK THEY WANT. :p
And you support that with what exactly? While fighters typically do that by the nature of the sexp system (arrive within X of target), most scripted ships do not follow that pattern. In the blockade mission for example, all of the NTF ships arrive in the same direction which suggests that they do not do whatever the heck they want.
Nightcrawler is a massive fag. . .
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
What's your point? That plenty of it sucks somehow negates the works that are excellent? If that is your reasoning then the movie franchise should be considered mediocre since the prequels are absolute bantha **** and RotJ had Ewoks.
'scuse me, but Ewoks rule. Just sayin'. :p
Yeah screw you guys, I like the Ewoks too. And their music.
The fact that Lucas cut out the Ewok hoedown for some unremarkable piece of **** pissed me off to no end. I've heard rumours of an unbutchered original trilogy somewhere but I don't know if the rumours are true.
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Yeah screw you guys, I like the Ewoks too. And their music.
The fact that Lucas cut out the Ewok hoedown for some unremarkable piece of **** pissed me off to no end. I've heard rumours of an unbutchered original trilogy somewhere but I don't know if the rumours are true.
The individual volume releases (i.e. not the box set) of the original trilogy films each contained a "bonus disk" with the original theatrical version on it. Said disk was the sole reason I bought those versions; I could care less about disk 1's garbage. :p
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Yeah screw you guys, I like the Ewoks too. And their music.
The fact that Lucas cut out the Ewok hoedown for some unremarkable piece of **** pissed me off to no end. I've heard rumours of an unbutchered original trilogy somewhere but I don't know if the rumours are true.
The individual volume releases (i.e. not the box set) of the original trilogy films each contained a "bonus disk" with the original theatrical version on it. Said disk was the sole reason I bought those versions; I could care less about disk 1's garbage. :p
Really? ****ing-a. Need to pick those up.
The only thing I didn't mind about the re-done movies was the bit with Biggs before the attack on the Death Star. But at the same time, I could live without it just to get rid of the rest of the damn garbage.
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I liked the Outrider. That was it. .
And hi-def Leia slavegirl.
I'd like to see the Empire harassed by the Lucifer back on off-topic. ;)
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I'd like to see the Empire harassed by the Lucifer back on off-topic. ;)
But they could use tractor beams to keep the Lucy from moving right? or maybe not... :confused:
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I'd like to see the Empire harassed by the Lucifer back on off-topic. ;)
But they could use tractor beams to keep the Lucy from moving right? or maybe not... :confused:
I don't think tractor beams can stop ships that large from moving... Even within the SW universe.
That is of course, not including stuff like Centerpoint Station. :D
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To my speculations, teh D Star'd be *********************'d up in a single hour by the Lucifer. Well, at least heavily damage it...remember the city-destroying blue beam?
Have you seen the Gargant? Think of it ramming the Executor to death...you'd hear Palpatine saying to Vader, "dive, dive, dive, hit your burners!!!"
And finally, we have Alpha one making himself invulnerable, and simply cheat his own ship to possess a Flux Cannon, launch it to the DS's core...blast.
Or, furthermore, Alpha one could just mod the .tbl files and create a lethal missile probably inflicting 2000,000 teratons of force ;7
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:blah:
:doubt:
:rolleyes:
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To my speculations, teh D Star'd be *********************'d up in a single hour by the Lucifer. Well, at least heavily damage it...remember the city-destroying blue beam?
Have you seen the Gargant? Think of it ramming the Executor to death...you'd hear Palpatine saying to Vader, "dive, dive, dive, hit your burners!!!"
And finally, we have Alpha one making himself invulnerable, and simply cheat his own ship to possess a Flux Cannon, launch it to the DS's core...blast.
Or, furthermore, Alpha one could just mod the .tbl files and create a lethal missile probably inflicting 2000,000 teratons of force ;7
1: well, ISD has those turbolasers that destroyed cities too (Taris, anyone?)
2: Gargant is noncanon so meh x]
3: and then, Vader spawnz a HUGE ROCKZ AND THEY CRASHES ALPHA 1s[/irony]
4: um.
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To my speculations, teh D Star'd be *********************'d up in a single hour by the Lucifer. Well, at least heavily damage it...remember the city-destroying blue beam?
Have you seen the Gargant? Think of it ramming the Executor to death...you'd hear Palpatine saying to Vader, "dive, dive, dive, hit your burners!!!"
And finally, we have Alpha one making himself invulnerable, and simply cheat his own ship to possess a Flux Cannon, launch it to the DS's core...blast.
Or, furthermore, Alpha one could just mod the .tbl files and create a lethal missile probably inflicting 2000,000 teratons of force ;7
this is a proper off-topic discussion. screw canonicity, screw real life. Let your imagination and bias for FS2/watever else run wild
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You'll notice the terminal effect of those turbolasers, individually, on Taris that we actually saw was very, very little. Not nearly enough to match the multi-kiloton missiles we see FS fighters throw around like confetti.
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To be fair, though, the only way we know FreeSpace missiles are multi-kiloton yield is from fluff text, not ingame effect...which is the same source that rates turbolasers as so incredibly powerful.
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Remember FS2? 90 Sathanas juggernauts. And they PWNED a frikin star. Therefore,
Sath Fleet = Sun Crusher (only the Capella sun couldn't cause a chain reaction).
Sath Fleet > Death Star. Well, at least they could pwn the DS all the more.
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Yeah, but it took them days.
And the Sun Crusher is stupid.
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Well, if Sath Fleet = Sun Crusher, the SW universe has the advantage right there. We have no canon Shivan Juggernaut numbers, only what we saw in FS 2. Sun Crusher pwns Shivans all by itself :cool:.
Superweapons aside, I seriously think an SSD could take a Juggernaut.
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To be fair, though, the only way we know FreeSpace missiles are multi-kiloton yield is from fluff text, not ingame effect...which is the same source that rates turbolasers as so incredibly powerful.
We actually see turbolasers pierce the roof and hit in the hanger around the Ebon Hawk (and people!), and hitting Taris' towers in cutscene for KOTOR. We have other fluff sources like Iron Fist's twenty-minute bombardment of a Rebel base in Wedge's Gamble that provide fairly conclusive evidence they're not kiloton individual weapons. The main battery output of a Star Destroyer can be guessed at from Empire Strikes Back and is in the multi-kiloton range to deal with the asteroids they fire at; mind, this is full output of the weapons that would bear.
So Star Wars doesn't have fluff that states its weapons are multi-kiloton monstrousities, rather much less. By its own admission, they are weaker. You've pointed out several other salient advantages yourself, of course, but they don't have a leg in the weapons discussion.
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Yeah, but by that argument, FreeSpace weapons are also considerably weaker than their fluff suggests.
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Star Wars fluff says both, at different places, at different points in real life's plot line. The Empire Stikes Back novelization, I believe, has the figures for the uber-turrets. I will try to find it.
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I'm pretty sure that it would take >or= 3 Star Destroyers to challenge an Orion. Think about how strong the hulls of FS ships have to be to withstand stellar hazards, and then take into account that SW ships use ray/particle/deflector shields for such things. I think the Orion would have absolute control of such a battle. This argument applies only if you accept the fact that Shivan shields on the Lucy are completely different in their operation and effect.
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We have zero evidence for that.
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We have zero evidence for that.
"Damn the torpedoes, Full speed ahead!" I don't much care for evidence when we're comparing two (hopefully) ficticious universes.
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Exactly.
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On that note, Arwings could take the SATHANAS FLEET SINGLE HANDEDLY :p
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Just aim for the yellow weak spots!
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Fluff text for any universe tends to be complete bull****.
I always just go with onscreen evidence and that evidence suggests the ISDs are pretty damn weak. I think a Deimos vs an ISD could give a good accounting of itself but would ultimately lose. Whereas an Orion or Typhon would probably squeek out a victory.
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Here's another method for rating universes:
Set all weapons technology equal. The same systems that operate behind turbolasers operate the Terran Huge Turret, etc...
In this scenario, FS pwns.
Turbolasers appear to be about the size of a WWII AA gun or battleship deck gun.
THTs are larger than your average house, and the barrels' diameter is the length of a fighter. Thus, THT = turbolaser on steroids in said equivalency scenario.
I'm probably going to get upbraided for being all about size, so I'll move on to a more comprehensive argument:
On-screen evidence is the best indicator of actual power, and the lasers used in bombardment in KOTOR are a little more powerful than a cruise missile.
In FS, we never see a canonical planetary bombardment, but seeing how large and powerful the blasts of nuclear devices are w/o any atmosphere to transfer kinetic energy, just unleashing one Harbinger or Helios in atmo would = serious s**t.
Also, seeing that beam cannons can do equivalent damage, we can assume a beam would cause damage similar to a nuclear device if fired towards a planet. I'm not sure about EU, but to my knowledge, no movie-era SW starships carry similar firepower.
SW does have hyperspace, and while it may be faster than subspace travel, the ships must arrive in the same orientation as departure, and must use hyperspace lanes, very similar to subspace nodes, thus limiting maneuverability.
The argument that an ISD could traverse the entire GTVA in a matter of minutes needs more supporting evidence. How far apart are GTVA systems? What stellar obstacles are in the way? Subspace allows a ship to move without fearing collision with another celestial body.
Interdictors would not be able to stop a FS fleet jump. No canon examples of an FS ship being pulled out of subspace due to gravity exist, giving FS ships a safe haven from attack since no node technology exists in SW.
And as for Orion v. ISD, an FS1 Orion might barely squeak out a victory, FS2-era would dominate. Even with the shields, an ISD's can be lowered by sustained turbolaser fire. A beam cannon is equivalent to thousands of turbolaser blasts, and could quickly pierce these shields and make quick work of the ISD's hull.
Is it just me, or does the ISD's hull seem incredibly thin compared to the Orion's?
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Is it just me, or does the ISD's hull seem incredibly thin compared to the Orion's?
Different 'verse, they rely on shielding, which is better than armour, it repairs itself. Similar with Star trek.... now warhammerverse would probably make the Orion look like tissue paper armour.
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Here's another method for rating universes:
Set all weapons technology equal. The same systems that operate behind turbolasers operate the Terran Huge Turret, etc...
In this scenario, FS pwns.
Not at all, since we have no idea what the table values for the ISD's guns are. What about ISD-mounted beam weapons, as seen on the Open Circle Fleet (not strictly ISDs, but actually more primitive ships)?
Turbolasers appear to be about the size of a WWII AA gun or battleship deck gun. THTs are larger than your average house, and the barrels' diameter is the length of a fighter. Thus, THT = turbolaser on steroids in said equivalency scenario.
In FS canon the same weapons are fired from turrets of vastly varying size so this is hardly relevant. Look at the flak firing from those COLOSSAL Hecate turrets!
I'm probably going to get upbraided for being all about size, so I'll move on to a more comprehensive argument:
On-screen evidence is the best indicator of actual power, and the lasers used in bombardment in KOTOR are a little more powerful than a cruise missile.
In FS, we never see a canonical planetary bombardment, but seeing how large and powerful the blasts of nuclear devices are w/o any atmosphere to transfer kinetic energy, just unleashing one Harbinger or Helios in atmo would = serious s**t.
Actually, the blasts of the nuclear weapons in FS are pretty tiny compared to what they should be on FS scales.
Also, seeing that beam cannons can do equivalent damage, we can assume a beam would cause damage similar to a nuclear device if fired towards a planet. I'm not sure about EU, but to my knowledge, no movie-era SW starships carry similar firepower.
Yeah, but the SWverse seems to blow up planets - fully disintegrating them, not just taking out the surface! - so it's kind of a wash.
SW does have hyperspace, and while it may be faster than subspace travel, the ships must arrive in the same orientation as departure, and must use hyperspace lanes, very similar to subspace nodes, thus limiting maneuverability.
How is the orientation thing at all important?
Hyperspace lanes aren't anything like subspace nodes. Hyperspace offers tremendous freedom over long distances. Subspace offers in-system freedom or tiny linear hops between close systems.
The argument that an ISD could traverse the entire GTVA in a matter of minutes needs more supporting evidence. How far apart are GTVA systems?
Use a basic star chart: almost all GTVA systems are real stars.
What stellar obstacles are in the way? Subspace allows a ship to move without fearing collision with another celestial body.
Given canonical travel times, a Star Wars ship moving in a straight line would probably cross GTVA space in seconds. These guys can get across the galaxy in a reasonable timespan. GTVA space is literally a tiny chunk of one spiral arm.
Interdictors would not be able to stop a FS fleet jump. No canon examples of an FS ship being pulled out of subspace due to gravity exist, giving FS ships a safe haven from attack since no node technology exists in SW.
We have no idea whether they would or wouldn't. There's no grounds for comparison.
Using nodes to travel in the SWverse, however, is akin to moving your troops by wheelchair and tricycle.
And as for Orion v. ISD, an FS1 Orion might barely squeak out a victory, FS2-era would dominate. Even with the shields, an ISD's can be lowered by sustained turbolaser fire. A beam cannon is equivalent to thousands of turbolaser blasts, and could quickly pierce these shields and make quick work of the ISD's hull.
We have no idea what a beam cannon is equivalent to.
The point of all this is that any comparison between the two universes requires a ridiculous amount of assumption and wank.
Furthermore, the fundamental idea that the coolness of a universe is somehow related to whether it can beat another universe is just absurd.
-
A-wing hits SSD, SSD dies. . . . Perseus hits an Orion, Perseus bounces off Orion. Orion is tougher ;)
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Terran Laser - destroys a asteroid in a single hit
Turbolaser - destroys an asteroid in a single hit
Work out the minimal energy needed to do that and work from there.
All said, FS does feel more powerfull. In Star Wars, the ships trade loads and loads of turbolaser shots and seem to do comparatively little damage.
In FS2, all it takes for even a large ship to blow up is a few beam hits
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All said, FS does feel more powerfull. In Star Wars, the ships trade loads and loads of turbolaser shots and seem to do comparatively little damage.
In FS2, all it takes for even a large ship to blow up is a few beam hits
Star Wars does have some insane stuff though, the Empire alone is capable of building numerous artificial planetoids, which the GTVA has no hope in hell of doing at their technological level.
The Shivans OTOH, well that's another story. ;)
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As I can see,
A megaton of force should release roughly 4000 megajoules. Given this data, this means that a Harbinger bomb should release 20 terajoules. That's already in the terajoule-range, so FS fluff = SW fluff, probably.
But in either universes the fluff can still be disproven. As a conclusion of the above paragraph, it requires 31 Harbingers to take down an Orion. And that's - 620 terajoules. 620 Terajoules, or to take down a 6,600 long armored brick of metal with shielding and armor. That's 155 gigatons needed to take 2 kilometres of metal - and yet you could take down an entire city with the Hiroshima nuke, which is only 15 kilotons. A Harbinger bomb could probably blast apart 333 000 present-day cities clustered together...with ONE harbinger, that means that an Orion equals 10,333,333 cities in durability. WOW :shaking:
Also, this means that Freespace fluff IS true, considering extratremendous shielding of the Orion. Or, it is NOT true.
Considering FS fluff IS true, then the Lucy's Twin Flux Cannons means death to a hundred million present-day cities. And, if you want its "Blue Beam" to be as strong as a BFRed, then...
it pwns 300,000,000 present-day Hiroshimas. Yet in the vid it clearly ransacks just a SINGLE Vasudan city. Is the fluff true or not??
If we could manage to mod a missile dealing damage equal to a BFRed, or as said above, equal to the Lucy's blue beam that demolished Vasuda, then that means this missile would mean doom to the entire world in one shockwave.
Meaning to say that, if the Lucifer's blue beam wasn't concentrated in just one spot, then it would ransack Earth in one pulse. ONE PULSE :shaking: :shaking:
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Here's another method for rating universes:
Set all weapons technology equal. The same systems that operate behind turbolasers operate the Terran Huge Turret, etc...
In this scenario, FS pwns.
Turbolasers appear to be about the size of a WWII AA gun or battleship deck gun.
THTs are larger than your average house, and the barrels' diameter is the length of a fighter. Thus, THT = turbolaser on steroids in said equivalency scenario.
I'm probably going to get upbraided for being all about size, so I'll move on to a more comprehensive argument:
On-screen evidence is the best indicator of actual power, and the lasers used in bombardment in KOTOR are a little more powerful than a cruise missile.
In FS, we never see a canonical planetary bombardment, but seeing how large and powerful the blasts of nuclear devices are w/o any atmosphere to transfer kinetic energy, just unleashing one Harbinger or Helios in atmo would = serious s**t.
Also, seeing that beam cannons can do equivalent damage, we can assume a beam would cause damage similar to a nuclear device if fired towards a planet. I'm not sure about EU, but to my knowledge, no movie-era SW starships carry similar firepower.
SW does have hyperspace, and while it may be faster than subspace travel, the ships must arrive in the same orientation as departure, and must use hyperspace lanes, very similar to subspace nodes, thus limiting maneuverability.
The argument that an ISD could traverse the entire GTVA in a matter of minutes needs more supporting evidence. How far apart are GTVA systems? What stellar obstacles are in the way? Subspace allows a ship to move without fearing collision with another celestial body.
Interdictors would not be able to stop a FS fleet jump. No canon examples of an FS ship being pulled out of subspace due to gravity exist, giving FS ships a safe haven from attack since no node technology exists in SW.
And as for Orion v. ISD, an FS1 Orion might barely squeak out a victory, FS2-era would dominate. Even with the shields, an ISD's can be lowered by sustained turbolaser fire. A beam cannon is equivalent to thousands of turbolaser blasts, and could quickly pierce these shields and make quick work of the ISD's hull.
Is it just me, or does the ISD's hull seem incredibly thin compared to the Orion's?
This is what I'm talking about; and Battutta went and made an argument based on .tbl files. WTF, Battutta?
EDIT: I attempted to call out the wrong person. Sorry Colonel Dekker. Long Live the Queen!
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My argument stands :p
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This is a Freespace message board therefore Freespace wins against all others, be it Star Trek, Star Wars or Babylon 5.
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*a long post*
This is what I'm talking about; and Battutta went and made an argument based on .tbl files. WTF, Battutta?
EDIT: I attempted to call out the wrong person. Sorry Colonel Dekker. Long Live the Queen!
If you think my argument was based on .tbl files then you are not reading.
Go back and read it again.
My entire point is that this debate is silly because
a) there are no grounds for comparison and
b) the Culture wipes the floor with everybody.
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b) the Culture wipes the floor with everybody.
Darn, beat me to it... or the Xeelee or the Timelords :P
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OH ****, IT'S THE XEELEE
GET IN THE KERR METRIC CAR
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b) the Culture wipes the floor with everybody.
This.
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b) the Culture wipes the floor with everybody.
This.
Well except xeelee/gallefry :P
Oh...
Add 5th Imperium to the mix.
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Sure, but if given the choice, I'd rather be conquered by the Culture.
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True.... although it would less of a conquer and more of a join...
As for the xeelee, I'd be more worried about the birds, and gallefry... ehhh they couldn't care less if you existed LOL
LOL how about "The City"... "shivans lost, presumed eaten by locals" LOL
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b) the Culture wipes the floor with everybody.
Darn, beat me to it... or the Xeelee or the Timelords :P
Who? :wtf: And what? Eh? :confused:
Bah..you are all dillusional. The God-Emperor of Mankind shall perform an Exteriminatus for your heretical thoughts.
EDIT:
My point stands. If you assume roughly equal durabiltiy for roughly equal sized ships(wich is somewaht reasonable), FS universe does seem more powerfull, since ships kill eachother FAR faster.
One or two beam hits in FS2 and your'e dead. In SW, ships shoot at eachother for half an hour...literally.
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b) the Culture wipes the floor with everybody.
Darn, beat me to it... or the Xeelee or the Timelords :P
Who? :wtf: And what? Eh? :confused:
Bah..you are all dillusional. The God-Emperor of Mankind shall perform an Exteriminatus for your heretical thoughts.
Ha, what God Emperor? opps sorry we erased him :P
EDIT:
My point stands. If you assume roughly equal durabiltiy for roughly equal sized ships(wich is somewaht reasonable), FS universe does seem more powerfull, since ships kill eachother FAR faster.
One or two beam hits in FS2 and your'e dead. In SW, ships shoot at eachother for half an hour...literally.
Doesn't Warhammer space battles last for days on end? Also by that account, 5th Imp is far more deadly the FS.. one go-away missile = one instant kill
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Just googled Xeelee .. Dear God, that must be the worst Sci-Fi I've ever came across.....
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One day Snails will conquer the multiverse and all of creation.
_@/
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Just googled Xeelee .. Dear God, that must be the worst Sci-Fi I've ever came across.....
Seriously? Stephen Baxter is one of the hardest SF writers out there. He's an actual physicist.
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Seriously? Stephen Baxter is one of the hardest SF writers out there. He's an actual physicist.
That doesn't make for good narrative qualifications, Vernor Vinge aside.
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Even Vinge's a letdown, honestly. A Fire Upon the Deep fizzled and the less said about Rainbow's End the better.
Met him, though, ate dinner with him. Incredibly nice guy, very bright.
Anyway, I'm sure we all know that Trashman's objections to Stephen Baxter probably take the form of 'I don't like him so his science sucks'.
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:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
Anybody knows what the heck caused this guy to show up?? And who the hell is he??!
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8003/guyy.jpg)
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Well, that's what happens if you use the tooldeworkedowned (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Cheats) cheat.
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That's actually really funny
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Anyway, I'm sure we all know that Trashman's objections to Stephen Baxter probably take the form of 'I don't like him so his science sucks'.
I'm sure you're objections to my objections take the form of "I'm a blided fanboy, so I see no failings."
Just reading the plot summary makes me want to puke.
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No, actually, I don't really like the Xeelee sequence. But my objections are with the characters and storytelling, which I just can't connect with.
I'm assuming that you're reacting to what you see as 'fantastic' or 'unrealistic' science, when, in fact, the ideas in the Xeelee books are grounded in a very strong understanding of the Standard Model and modern cosmology.
Either that or you're terrified that it didn't go the HUMANS FIRST **** YEAHHH route.
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And Emperor Vectron rules all! :P
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i would like to introduce the Eclipse class star destroyer
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/1/1e/Eclipse-class_Star_Destroyer1.jpg
follow the link
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And Emperor Vectron rules all! :P
For his titanium eyebrows smite THE UNBELIEVERS!
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http://img186.imageshack.us/i/eaw2006121422384160nl6.jpg/
the executor class star destroyer
19 K's long
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No, actually, I don't really like the Xeelee sequence. But my objections are with the characters and storytelling, which I just can't connect with.
I'm assuming that you're reacting to what you see as 'fantastic' or 'unrealistic' science, when, in fact, the ideas in the Xeelee books are grounded in a very strong understanding of the Standard Model and modern cosmology.
Either that or you're terrified that it didn't go the HUMANS FIRST **** YEAHHH route.
I have a bridge to Terabithia I'd like to sell to you...
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http://img186.imageshack.us/i/eaw2006121422384160nl6.jpg/
the executor class star destroyer
19 K's long
Take a look at 6:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ
Seeing that a few fighter laser blasts and a torpedo were enough to knock out some of the Executor's shield arrays, I bet a beam cannon could make short work of said shield array, waste the bridge, and proceed to use the gap in their defenses to melt a hole right through that ship.
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http://img186.imageshack.us/i/eaw2006121422384160nl6.jpg/
the executor class star destroyer
19 K's long
80 Sathanases
480 K's long
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No, actually, I don't really like the Xeelee sequence. But my objections are with the characters and storytelling, which I just can't connect with.
I'm assuming that you're reacting to what you see as 'fantastic' or 'unrealistic' science, when, in fact, the ideas in the Xeelee books are grounded in a very strong understanding of the Standard Model and modern cosmology.
Either that or you're terrified that it didn't go the HUMANS FIRST **** YEAHHH route.
I have a bridge to Terabithia I'd like to sell to you...
Is there a particular part of the science you'd disliked? Kerr metrics are real, the baryonic/dark matter distinction is real, the Great Attractor is certainly real...
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/eaw2006121422384160nl6.jpg/
the executor class star destroyer
19 K's long
Take a look at 6:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ
Seeing that a few fighter laser blasts and a torpedo were enough to knock out some of the Executor's shield arrays, I bet a beam cannon could make short work of said shield array, waste the bridge, and proceed to use the gap in their defenses to melt a hole right through that ship.
We have no idea what the yield of a beam cannon is compared to the yield of Star Wars weapons or the power of Star Wars shields.
The comparison is fundamentally ridiculous. (Especially as we see Star Wars ships using beam weapons against each other.)
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The comparison is fundamentally ridiculous. (Especially as we see Star Wars ships using beam weapons against each other.)
Yes, but the Eclipse has a mini-Death Star beam, so Executor would vaporize.
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Hrm? We don't know how superlaser yield compares either...
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When it has the ability to one-shot a planet-sized object, the amount of solid metal in one place is magnitudes greater than a ship hull, there's no way to say the shielding would be capable of holding against it.
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No dispute with that, but I'm not sure how it connects to the previous point.
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Unless esarai was talking about FS2 beams then I was reading everything wrong. :P
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No, actually, I don't really like the Xeelee sequence. But my objections are with the characters and storytelling, which I just can't connect with.
I'm assuming that you're reacting to what you see as 'fantastic' or 'unrealistic' science, when, in fact, the ideas in the Xeelee books are grounded in a very strong understanding of the Standard Model and modern cosmology.
Either that or you're terrified that it didn't go the HUMANS FIRST **** YEAHHH route.
I have a bridge to Terabithia I'd like to sell to you...
Is there a particular part of the science you'd disliked? Kerr metrics are real, the baryonic/dark matter distinction is real, the Great Attractor is certainly real...
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/eaw2006121422384160nl6.jpg/
the executor class star destroyer
19 K's long
Take a look at 6:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGMvadAFqLQ
Seeing that a few fighter laser blasts and a torpedo were enough to knock out some of the Executor's shield arrays, I bet a beam cannon could make short work of said shield array, waste the bridge, and proceed to use the gap in their defenses to melt a hole right through that ship.
We have no idea what the yield of a beam cannon is compared to the yield of Star Wars weapons or the power of Star Wars shields.
The comparison is fundamentally ridiculous. (Especially as we see Star Wars ships using beam weapons against each other.)
Firstly, Freespace caps don't have shields at all, though we know that the Lucy had. They were meant to take a lot of damage, because they were already heavily-armored. Ever wondered why the Colossus has only 30,000 in it?
Either most of the crew were just drones, or most of the supercap was spent for armor. Also, Star Wars fighters could be so-advanced that they could carry lasers enough to break an Orion in about 30 rounds. But again, we're trying to balance the two.
The Shivans had technology much above mere beams. I presume, for certain, that they can manage to create some kind of mysterious charge that disintegrates matter - for instance, the Hallfight in Descent. That last one who died just disappeared after a Shivan created some unknown kind of energy. And, also, how could 90 Saths detonate a star? Probably that kind of energy, again. We saw that each of the Saths joined their four arms and had some kind of electric-charge linking them together. Then we see an enlargening white sphere, followed by the destruction of Capella. Recall the Hallfight. We see this Shivan, enlargening a strange white sphere, followed by the destruction OF the boarding party member. Similar.
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Pretty sure the Shivan anti-infantry weapon in Hallfight was an 'integrated plasma weapon' as described in the techroom entry; nothing mysterious.
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Is there a particular part of the science you'd disliked? Kerr metrics are real, the baryonic/dark matter distinction is real, the Great Attractor is certainly real...
I liek ot make a distinction between "exist somewhere in some theory" and "actually plausible to a degree."
It has people living in NEUTRON STARS.
Compared to that, I'll take Little Red Riding Hood and have less trouble with suspension of disbelief.
We done? Great. No back to FS vs. SW.
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The Great Attractor is purely a product of observation (something out there is sucking at all the local galaxies.) Neutron star fauna is, well, er, science fiction? I'm not sure what your problem is there.
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When it has the ability to one-shot a planet-sized object, the amount of solid metal in one place is magnitudes greater than a ship hull, there's no way to say the shielding would be capable of holding against it.
It can't one-shot a planet, only crack the crust on a massive scale rendering it uninhabitable. (Or so says my Essential Guide.) You can accomplish the same thing with several Harbingers at their listed yield.
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That's still beyond catastrophic damage.
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Snail's beyond catastrophic damage :wakka:
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:confused:
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Snail's beyond catastrophic damage :wakka:
Why do you keep taking potshots at me? :wtf:
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Sorry pal, it's banter.
Nothing personal. ;)
My psersonal belief regarding the blue beam is that it was due to post process on the FS2 command brief. I wouldn't imagine it being that colour really. Although that custom Vasuda prime *smite* vid is cool.
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Snail's beyond catastrophic damage :wakka:
Why do you keep taking potshots at me? :wtf:
Snail, haven't you realized the Colonol is terribly xenophobic? The thought of an intelligible snail terrifies him udderly; the only thing he can do is lash out...
Sad, is it not? :blah:
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Let's make it...
FS1 Shivan Armada vs. SW Death Squadron (since it's FS vs SW currently):
I took this from SpaceBattles.com, unfortunately it's extremely old, anyways.
FS1 Shivan Armada has:
1 SD Lucifer
1 SD Demon
22 SC Cains
5 SC Liliths
400 shivan fighters & bombers (let's just make it 100 Basilisks, 100 Dragons, 200 Nephilims)
SW Fleet has:
1 Executor SSD
24 Imperial-Class Star Destroyers
1000 TIEs (TIE Fighter/Bomber Models)
RULES:
1. SD Lucifer's impenetrable shield is taken out.
2. SD Lucifer mounts its flux cannons as strong as the one in the FS2 intro (can hole an Orion destroyer in one shot)
3. SD Lucifer has 3 flux cannons.
4. Executor takes on the Lucifer, fighters take on each other, bombers try to take out caps, Shivan cruisers take on ISD's.
Who wins??
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Whichever side you're a bigger fan of.
My personal vote? Malcolm Reynolds.
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Mal is the BEST!
Mal > Han Solo
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Whichever side you're a bigger fan of.
My personal vote? Malcolm Reynolds.
Me? well, without the DS, Freespace. But Star Wars' enormous numerical advantage and the SSD shield-array pwning photon torpedo gives SW an edge. On the other hand, Lucy's destroyer-penetrating flux's and subspace gives Freespace an edge.
You have a point, though :yes:
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Wouldn't it be plausible that Star wars fighters would be able to neutralise the beam weapons of FS cap ships?
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Well definitely plausible--FS fighters do that already.
However, it works both ways. SW can take out beam cannons, FS can take out turbolasers. Those SW fighters would have to work fast to keep their fleet from getting beam'd hard, and the FS fighters would have to work really hard to reduce an SD's armament in time to have a significant impact on combat.
Though I do have to say that SW fighters often look like they're surprisingly thinly armored, whereas FS ships tend to be heavily armored. If they have to resort to ramming, my vote's on the FS ships.
Here's one thing I've wondered about the Lucy--where the hell is it's shield array? It's always seemed like it's integrated into the hull of the ship, or is inside the ship, unlike SW shields. That might hamper the hail-Mary photon torpedo a bit.
Mal totally pwns Han.
In terms of each universe's bad guys, I think Shivans are more bad-ass than Storm Troopers. Let's see Vader and his minions try to pull what they did on Leia's transport on a Lilith or Rakhshasa. I have a feeling it won't end well for them. Vader might survive, but given an ST's accuracy rate... I think the ST's are crispy bacon if they try to board a Shivan vessel.
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And stoormtroopers don't have razor sharp hands or beam cannons built into thier bodies. I don't think accuracy would be a problem for a Shivan as shooting is probably as natural as looking at something.
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Precisely my point. Sorry, last post seems to have been confusing. Edited for clarity.
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I still maintain it's just fundamentally silly, as Herra pointed out over in the thread about that crossover video.
There's just no grounds for comparison.
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We can allways try to find one.
Seriously, all you need is a baseline. Problem is, you can use several things as baselines and they contradict eachother.
Canon numbers and in-game (or movie) performace do not match. Heck, performance in cut-scenes (or movies) and games doesn't match. Sometimes you have discrepencies wihtin a single movie/game.
Then you have to ask youself - what is more accurate - the movie? The game? The website numbers?
Since 99% of all sci-fi universes are not actually self-consistent, you're basicly at mission impossible.
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Quite so, and well said.
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I agree with your points, Battuta and TrashMan.
It's just every now and then you need a break from reason. I spend most of my time being a voice of reason, so I choose the ludicrous to counter it. Hence I'm still arguing.
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I think in a numbers-matched duel it'd be a fun fight, and surprisingly fair.
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For your entertainment...
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/6354915/16483528
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lol @ 2:30.
Star Wars music.
I have no idea what the ramming scene from Nemesis has to do with the attack from the Lucifer... :blah:
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I think the author wanted the Enterprise to have rammed to the LUCIFER.
BTW I didn't hear any Star Wars music there?
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Check it again, it's the music they typically use on Rebel Vs. TIE dogfights.
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Definative proof that FreeSpace trumps Star Trek! :lol:
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:confused:
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Thread revived.
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.... for no discernable reason.
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FREESPACE VS. GOD VS. THE INFINITE PHALLUS OF SHIVA
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FreeSpace win.
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Okay, let's make some sense here.
GTF Hercules vs. Hercules
PVF Anubis vs. Anubis
SJ Sathanas vs. Satan
SSD Lucifer vs. Lucifer
Makeup contest:
Knossos vs. Knossos
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But Knossos is...a palace/city?
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Yes it is :D
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Knossos Gate win.
Knossos Gate unleashes Shivans on the city of Knossos. Knossos City is destroyed.
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The mysterious disappearance of the Minoans is finally explained!
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Now you need to explain the mysterious disappearance of the mysteriously appeared Shivans, though. Preferably by using something mysterious.
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They sunk the Knossos in the Bermuda Triangle.
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Wouldn't the big moving parts cause some noticable current anomalies. Unless the weirdness is some kind of "residual subspace energy" or something, even though it's turned off.
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Wouldn't the big moving parts cause some noticable current anomalies. Unless the weirdness is some kind of "residual subspace energy" or something, even though it's turned off.
I guess we've found the reason for the stuff-sucking power of the Bermuda Triangle!!!
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Yeah, that spinning acts like a giant whirlpool. :p
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Does a Knossos still spin if its deactivated?
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Okay, let's make some sense here.
GTF Hercules vs. Hercules
PVF Anubis vs. Anubis
SJ Sathanas vs. Satan
SSD Lucifer vs. Lucifer
Makeup contest:
Knossos vs. Knossos
1. GTF Hercules wins. Hercules brags about his strength. GTF Hercules launches ten tempests. Hercules gets disintegrated.
2. Anubis wins. Anubis destroys the motherfrakking fighter.
3. Satan tempts Shivans to decimate the Solar System. Satan wins.
4. Lucifer wins. Lucifer brings down an army of angels to strike down the five reactors of the destroyer with fire and lighting XD
5. Sath comes out of the Knossos. Sath launches a BFRed. Knossos is destroyed.
Another LIST of Fights;
1. GTB Medusa vs. Medusa
2. GVD Psamtik vs. Psamtik (Egyptian queen, read it in FS Wiki)
3. NTF Iceni vs. Iceni
4. NTF Boadicea vs. Boadicea
5. SD Demon vs. any Demon
6. GTF Ulysses vs. Ulysses.
7. GTF Myrmidon vs. an army of Myrmidons
8. Cyclops torpedo vs. Cyclops (one-eyed giant)
9. GTM Helios vs. Helios
10. GTF Athena
11. GTFr Chronos vs. Kronos
12. GTB Athena vs. Athena
13. SH Gargant vs. Galactus (lol)
14. GTF Ares vs. Ares
15. GTC Fenris vs. Fenrir
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5. Sath comes out of the Knossos. Sath launches a BFRed. Knossos is destroyed.
That's Sath vs Knossos, which is a different fight.
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5. Sath comes out of the Knossos. Sath launches a BFRed. Knossos is destroyed.
That's Sath vs Knossos, which is a different fight.
Fine, for some reason Knossos moves away from current place. Moving objects surrounding Knossos gate cuts through the Earth. Knossos city is crushed by the huge rotating objects.
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1. GTB Medusa vs. Medusa
Medusa looks at Pilot in Medusa Cockpit. Pilot explodes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Atrocity_Archives). Medusa rams Medusa. A draw.
2. GVD Psamtik vs. Psamtik (Egyptian queen, read it in FS Wiki)
Queen Psamtik orders a bath prepared. Psamtik crew begins Plasma core insertion. Psamtik crew opens fire. Queen Psamtik's bath now has the appropriate temperature. No winner, but weird mental images.
3. NTF Iceni vs. Iceni
Iceni are transported to the NTF Iceni. Soon afterwards, all NTF officers and crew are dead. Unfortunately, being the 1st century BC folk that they are, the words "Safety interlock" or "Keep one door of Airlock closed at all times" mean nothing to them. Thus, the Iceni starts a new career as a ghost ship, culminating in a sweet gig as the prime attraction in a Human-superstition-themed theme park in orbit around Vasuda Prime.
4. NTF Boadicea vs. Boadicea
Being the Queen of the Iceni, Boadicea has the good sense of not joining her tribe on the big NTF Iceni exploration expedition. Instead, she takes over a little rock in a nice, quiet corner of the universe, and opens up a Hard Rock Cafe.
5. SD Demon vs. any Demon
Demons arrive near the Demon. They take a good look at the Demon, conclude that it is sadly lacking in souls, and leave disappointed.
6. GTF Ulysses vs. Ulysses.
Odysseus builds a giant wooden version of himself. GTF Ulysses attacks the wooden structure, but is destroyed by shrapnel. Odysseus wins.
7. GTF Myrmidon vs. an army of Myrmidons
Following the orders of their leaders, the Myrmidons start a charge on the GTF Myrmidon's position. The Myrmidon Pilot launches two Tempests. No more charging Myrmidons.
8. Cyclops torpedo vs. Cyclops (one-eyed giant)
Cyclops is fired at the giant. Giant throws rock at Torpedo. Torpedo explodes. Giant is killed by shockwave. Torpedo wins.
9. GTM Helios vs. Helios
Helios is fired at the sun. Disintegrates due to massive overheating somewhere in the Sun's Corona. Sun does not take notice.
10. GTF Athena
Wins.
11. GTFr Chronos vs. Kronos
Chronos starts an attack run. Kronos whips out a knife and fork, and starts nomming.
12. GTB Athena vs. Athena
Athena transforms the Athena into a nice little medal, to commemorate the audacity of the Bomber's pilot.
13. SH Gargant vs. Galactus (lol)
Galactus is hungry. Sees Gargant. Starts nomming. Gargant explodinates with sufficient force to destroy the hand-drawn comic book this is happening in.
14. GTF Ares vs. Ares
Ares Pilot sees energy signature. Waits for Trebuchets to lock on, and opens fire. Energy signature disappears.
15. GTC Fenris vs. Fenrir
Fenrir enters Fenris' bridge. Is adopted by crew as mascot. Both win.
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2. GVD Psamtik vs. Psamtik (Egyptian queen, read it in FS Wiki)
Queen Psamtik orders a bath prepared. Psamtik crew begins Plasma core insertion. Psamtik crew opens fire. Queen Psamtik's bath now has the appropriate temperature. No winner, but weird mental images.
11. GTFr Chronos vs. Kronos
Chronos starts an attack run. Kronos whips out a knife and fork, and starts nomming.
15. GTC Fenris vs. Fenrir
Fenrir enters Fenris' bridge. Is adopted by crew as mascot. Both win.
2. :wtf:
11. :lol:
15. :lol:
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What about...
GTD Galatea vs. Earth
GTD Bastion vs. the four rooks on Anand's chessboard
GTD Aquitane vs. all the inhabitants of Aquitane armed with bayonettes
and lost but not least...
GTC Lonewolf vs. a lone wolf
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What about...
GTD Galatea vs. Earth
GTD Bastion vs. the four rooks on Anand's chessboard
GTD Aquitane vs. all the inhabitants of Aquitane armed with bayonettes
and lost but not least...
GTC Lonewolf vs. a lone wolf
Galatea attacks Earth but forgets to launch fighter cover. Earth nukes Galatea. Earth wins.
GTD Bastion jumps in to attack chess board. Chess board is sent flying by the displacement of air caused by Bastion jumping in. Bastion Wins.
A lone wolf encounters the crew of the LoneWolf camped out in the Great North Woods. Crew throws him some meat. A well-meaning crew chief adopts him and lone wolf becomes the ship's pet. Both win.
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You forgot about Aquitane :p
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Well, the inhabitants would swarm the ship and attempt to overwhelm the 10000 or so crew...
What's the population of Aquitaine?
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4. Lucifer wins. Lucifer brings down an army of angels to strike down the five reactors of the destroyer with fire and lighting XD
See the problem with crap like this is that The Legions of Hell just aren't very impressive anymore in combat terms today, so I don't think the Shivans would do much more than curbstomp them.
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Lucifer commands the lucifer and the lucifer parks in a cscaled up hades as it enters a Hades nebula (generic sci-fi rts reference)
:blah:
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Team brawl:
GTD Hecate + GTD Hades + GTB Athena vs. Hecate + Hades + Athena
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Team brawl:
GTD Hecate + GTD Hades + GTB Athena vs. Hecate + Hades + Athena
I don't even know where to begin....
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Even if I was flying for the trusty GTA.
I couldn't bring myself to attack Athena as . . . .she's hot ;)
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:lol:
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Team brawl:
GTD Hecate + GTD Hades + GTB Athena vs. Hecate + Hades + Athena
Athena gives the first team a huge pile of golden apples. Team eats apples until they are more than full. Command scolds them, but they say that apples are healthy anyway. Command can do nothing but stare at them, envious of the tasty apples :D
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Alpha 1 vs. Ensign Munroooooooooooooooooooo
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Hrm? We don't know how superlaser yield compares either...
2.4×10 to the 32nd power. There.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Superlaser
Harbringer (according to estimation) = 600 X 10 to the 24th power
Now what about the BFREd? About 15 X 10 to the 27th power.
So a Super Laser could do about 8 billion FreeSpace damage = enough to take down 8,000 clustered Sathanas juggernauts.
I'd say the two universes have about the same fluff yield, you know.
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I have no idea what point you're trying to make, and what point of mine it's directed towards.
The comparison between the two universes remains fundamentally absurd.
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Alpha 1 vs Redshirt :lol: :P
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I have no idea what point you're trying to make, and what point of mine it's directed towards.
The comparison between the two universes remains fundamentally absurd.
What do you mean? I was estimating and comparing the yield of the two universes. You were saying you didn't know the yield of Star Wars, so I got it there for you.
If you pit the Empire against the GTVA, I think the Empire wins, considering it has a crapton more of starships. But what about the Shivans? I don't think even a Sith Lord could somehow survive getting heavily injured by the beam cannon on a Shivan's back.
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I have no idea what point you're trying to make, and what point of mine it's directed towards.
The comparison between the two universes remains fundamentally absurd.
What do you mean? I was estimating and comparing the yield of the two universes. You were saying you didn't know the yield of Star Wars, so I got it there for you.
If you pit the Empire against the GTVA, I think the Empire wins, considering it has a crapton more of starships. But what about the Shivans? I don't think even a Sith Lord could somehow survive getting heavily injured by the beam cannon on a Shivan's back.
I wonder if mind control works on Shivans.
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I wonder if mind control works on Shivans.
And I wonder if Shivans even have a mind :lol:
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I have no idea what point you're trying to make, and what point of mine it's directed towards.
The comparison between the two universes remains fundamentally absurd.
What do you mean? I was estimating and comparing the yield of the two universes. You were saying you didn't know the yield of Star Wars, so I got it there for you.
If you pit the Empire against the GTVA, I think the Empire wins, considering it has a crapton more of starships. But what about the Shivans? I don't think even a Sith Lord could somehow survive getting heavily injured by the beam cannon on a Shivan's back.
Again, knowing how many watts are produced by a superlaser is of dubious value for figuring out how destructive it is.
Comparing the two universes in some kind of smackdown is not only arbitrary on the technical level, it's of zero merit.
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Comparing your opinion to the matter is just about as pointless... :p
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Luckily I'm not comparing my opinion, I'm stating it, with considerable factual and rhetorical support available.
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by the beam cannon on a Shivan's back.
Wrong is wrong. The Shivan used its face. . . . :p
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I have no idea what point you're trying to make, and what point of mine it's directed towards.
The comparison between the two universes remains fundamentally absurd.
What do you mean? I was estimating and comparing the yield of the two universes. You were saying you didn't know the yield of Star Wars, so I got it there for you.
If you pit the Empire against the GTVA, I think the Empire wins, considering it has a crapton more of starships. But what about the Shivans? I don't think even a Sith Lord could somehow survive getting heavily injured by the beam cannon on a Shivan's back.
Again, knowing how many watts are produced by a superlaser is of dubious value for figuring out how destructive it is.
Comparing the two universes in some kind of smackdown is not only arbitrary on the technical level, it's of zero merit.
you have no imagination for this kind of thing. Let loose
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...during the battle of Hoth era where only four force users exist :)
There were more. If you count the three Skywalkers and Emperor, there's still Mara Jade and an unknown number of other Emperor's Hands.
If you also count force-sensitives, there's the Imperial Guard, of which at least two people exhibited moderate force sensitivity on later time (Kir Kanos and Carnor Jax) and presumably they all were selected based on their force sensitivity, though I wouldn't say they were force users at that point. Also on the list of force-sensitives are Maarek Stele, Tycho Celchu, Corran Horn, not to speak of Kyle Katarn.
Plus all the unknown shamans and wizards of worlds unknown to the Galactic Republic, worlds that never sent anyone to the Jedi order or had any contact with the rest of the Galaxy, who by all logic must have existed...
The problem is where you draw the line between force-user and force-sensitive. All A are B but not all B are A...
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Bah...
Doomsday Machine:1
Sathanas: 0
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/Star-Dragon/shivansurprise.jpg)
End of Line...
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Is that the doomsday machine from the Star Trek TOS episode The Doomsday Macine? cuz that would be awesome.
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Is that the doomsday machine from the Star Trek TOS episode The Doomsday Macine? cuz that would be awesome.
It kinda looks like it...
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Was that the one that ate planets and Kirk killed it with a Heroic Sacrifice?
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Was that the one that ate planets and Kirk killed it with a Heroic Sacrifice?
Well, Kirk didn't kill it Commodore Dekker did, but yes you are correct
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That. Why I turn down promotions. . . . .
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Can we not just let this topic die already? :wtf: It's been around since last October, periodically resurrected about once a month.
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*posts one months later*
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"Scotty" (yeah not you), got resurrected after 87 years so...
You can't keep a good NERCO down! :lol:
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Hmmm.
I think Nercos are a bit resilient to be honest.
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Okay, back to topic:
FreeSpace versus WSOP 2009
Who would win a poker game? Admiral Wolf or Scotty Nguyen?
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Lt. Commander Data
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Lt. Commander Data
Alpha 1 would take Data down with a Royal Flush. The way he happened to get reinforcements from the Colossus the way he always did.
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Lt. Commander Data
Alpha 1 would take Data down with a Royal Flush. The way he happened to get reinforcements from the Colossus the way he always did.
Until the Colossus exploded
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Lt. Commander Data
Alpha 1 would take Data down with a Royal Flush. The way he happened to get reinforcements from the Colossus the way he always did.
Until the Colossus exploded
yeah, well.....thats just a technicality
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Derek Smart vs. Admiral Bosch in a modified Street Fighter?
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...And Axem as the "big bad" at the end? That would be EPIC!
:lol:
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Axem needs a proper Dragon (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon) though. I nominate Goober for the position of Axem's Dragon.
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Actually, I think Axem would better be placed as Goober's Dragon...
...Also note that Axem has the advantage of having multiple EVIL alternate personalities (ex.: FRED, FRED2, etc.) - thus, he's kind of like Lex Luthor or some of those goofy X-Men villians: you just can't kill 'em. :P
Karajorma, if made an evil entity, wouldn't need a dragon... :lol:
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Na, the Dragon is usually stronger than the Big Bad, and since Goober is an admin, he definitely qualifies as stronger.
Besides, Axem's multiple evil personae are a great reason why he should be the Big Bad, since like you said the Big Bads frequently come back again and again and again.
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Well, the "big bad" is the "big bad" for a reason. Let's call Axem the "dragon with an agenda" and get Spoon on the line for a few more missions with the TDS. :p
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A wild Snail appeared!
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/me uses Salt!
It's super-effective!
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How about Freespace vs. A Series of Unfortunate Events (Netflix)?
That's an interesting move, since the Baudelaire orphans, immediately after the end of Chapter Fourteen (an extra book after The End), find themselves in the FreeSpace universe, and get captured by Vasudans (namely the Hammer of Light), and then get attacked by both the Neo-Terran Front and the Shivans, who have taken an interest in the Baudelaire fortune after dealing with the Quagmires for some reason.
It's also worth noting that the Shivans are worst than Count Olaf and the Great Unknown (the Bombinating Beast).
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Since this topic hasn't been posted in for four months as my last post here doesn't receive any attention. Enioch's question from the post on a thread about Mortal Engines movie (https://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=94804.msg1868948#msg1868948) "What the hell does Hester Shaw have to do with Shivans, the GTVA and the UGSF?" made me think of the Mortal Engines/FS/UGSF/BSG crossover. I was planning to post here on this folder.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Dl-Y3QGPi44/WXWwdeyd4eI/AAAAAAAAAQE/vB3bRdbrfWA9vzSaaJPDfRWr7OyaOKNrwCLcBGAs/s1600/amazing-pencil-draft-hestershaw.jpg)
Hester Shaw is a fan favourite (so does Shrike). Given that Hester is willing to kill anyone, I guess she might go after the GTVA. First Terrans. Vasudans. Then Shivans. The UGSF. The UIMS. The Galaga. Battura. Bosconians. Sadeen. And Cylons.
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What is about your FreeSpace: Reunited? Should that not be a BSG and FS crossover?
I mean you should think about how to make a proper working crossover between two things before you start even one with.... 4 whole franchises, or 5, because you also work on that Total Recall thing.. which could also easiiy tied in into this, i assume.
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Topic locked. Before Bryan resurrected it for no good reason, it lay dormant for 8 years. I don't know why he keeps ****ing up perfectly good threads with his crossover crap, but Bryan, I strongly suggest you start new topics instead of resurrecting old ones.