[Caveman]

Hi there

WC Saga is a very nice project, which I just discovered some days ago (at least it spared me endless wating-time till now).
I'm realy impressed by the recreation of WC3 and 4 missions in the engine, the quality is amazing!

I wonder if anyone from the project actualy asked someone from EA, if they where willing to pay for a portation of WC3 and 4?
I mean, Wing Commander Arena has proven that EA has no problem with the commercial continuation of the WC-franchise, as long as they can publish it
Maybe they would have to pay for the FS-engine, since it's only free for non-commercial use - but I think that would be worth it for EA.


Any comments on that?

[gevatter Lars]

I doubt that EA would ever pay anything, if anything we would have to pay them. Its there franchise that we are using.
Also how many games are out there that are recreations. Mostly they are re-inventions if anything but not exact copys with just more up to date graphics...except the tons of football, baseball, basketball...etc games.

Another thing is that I doubt that they would invest in something as unstable as a bunch of people who grouped together just for the fun of it and, for most of them, have no experiance in the buisniss.
It would be more then a risky undertaking for them, even if they woulnd't pay that much. Espacialy when you look at the current market with everyone hording money or trying to rip money from taxpayers.

Arena is also a complete different topic. It was one of the many projects for the XB-live marketplace that just needed a big name to sell and even failed missarably.
No WC is dead for now from the official side. Maybe when more big titles in the genre are comming up and they see that its possible to sell these games again you might see something but for now I highly doubt it.
On the other hand. I am kinda happy with that. Prophecy and Secret Ops where not as good and Arena was a bad joke for me. Only light for me was that the StarSoldiers manual for Arena was so very well done. It showed more love to the universe then the game it was made for. On the other hand I am a bit harsh, maybe, as this game had a very limited in what could be done.

[Captain Moran]

Yes, you need to tread carefully when going from freeware to payware.

A very good example is the Yankee Air Pirates "mod" for Thirdwire's Wings of Vietnam. This was basically put together my a group of very dedicated modders but they decided to go the payware route. I don't think they had any idea that once people PAY for a product they want support, they want GOOD support and they want it NOW!!

This project is even more complicated given the scope of the mod. No, we are better off keeping this as a freeware mod.

[Caveman]

Keeping Saga a freeware mod/game/campaign is of course out of the question, which doesn't mean that I wouldn't pay for it (actually I would pay a lot), but it was announced as freeware and it should stay that way. But future projects...

The two demo releases with the WC3 and 4 missions pointed out, that a conversion (including the sequences) is possible - ok, I don't know how much time was needed... but:
I completly agree Lars, EA very likely won't invest anything in a bunch of free-time-mod-coders. But maybe they would take a done conversion, or they would at least give the quarantee to take it, if they could see a well made demo (which of course should have some 2D selection-screens and some A/B-sequence-choices, to show that this is possible too) and then a percental benefit share as payment for you guys wouldn't be unrealistic.

The financial risk for EA wouldn't be high, publishing-costs could be minimized if they do it online like:
Wing Commander 3 revised/gold/platinum/whatever - download now for 14,99$

And about the "exact copys with just more up to date graphics", well... what about all the gold-versions of games which become published just one or two years after the original - often there are much minor changes then better graphics. But to name you one:
The "Tie Fighter" CD-version with SVGA and shaders

Sure, thats a very late gold version of WC3, but on the other hand this means there are a lot of kids (new customers) out there, to which this game would be completly new.

Long story short, this realy should be something to think about AFTER Saga is released (which means after all the 3D-models are there and working as well as the mod-engine and so on) because I, like you indicated for yourself, have given up the hope about another thrilling WC-Game from one of the big companies. But the Saga-mod, as far as I have experienced it, hast the potential for more and a conversion of WC3 and maybe 4 could be an easy entrance to the commercial sphere which could bring the franchise to a broader audience again and could guarantee a real sequel (or prequel?) if it runs well. Yes, many "coulds", I know... but you can't forbid me to dream ;-)

[captain-custard]

are we not forgetting something very fundamental here that the game is based on the scp engine which is an updated freespavce engine which was given to the public on a not for profit basis .....;

and the subject matter is in some way the copyright or intelectual property of some one else



maybe im wrong and missing he point

pleae do not take this as a flame in anyway

[Caveman]

Np, we didn't start the flamewar ;-)

As I said in my first post, maybe EA would have to pay for the engine... but that could also be a percental share, so that no one has to go in a risk with a big investment.

-edit:

You mean the intelectual property of all people who worked to improve the engin besides the original Freespace- and the actual Saga-team? Any lawers here?
I think they would have to compensate everyone, who has contributed some code - this, depending on the quantity of code, could be done with a free copy of the game or another percental share or so. Shouldn't be something a thing like that could fail about - which engine-coder would make the Wing Commander fandom to his enemy ;-)

[gevatter Lars]

Frankly I would advice EA to create its own engine. The FS2engine is full of holes and bugs and stuff that is concidered bad coding today, from what I hear from the coders.
In some parts its also quite inefficient and could be better.
It would also avoide any law problems on there side.

Also I would prefere something new instead of telling the old story again. Only thing that could get me to buy it again would be that all movies would be re-digitalised and put on a BR with the according quality. Problem with that would be that even EA dosn't know where it has its movieroles, from what I heard. So who wants a game that looks awesome but then has these highly compressed, low resolution movies?

[Vidmaster]

Moderators, quickly! Remove this thread forever before any EA guy comes across this by an unfortune google search 

[starlord]

Well, despite it's flaws, the FSO engine has proven to be quite capable, puching the envelope to encompass even atmospheric flight and descent like attributes (as the karnak demonstrates): it has been shown to continually push the envellope. However, as said before, indeed it's likely that EA will not see it that way...

Porting prophecy? That's unlikely! Hey, I wonder, by sure curiosity, would the FSO engine handle nephilim type fighter clusters?

[Mikes]

Approaching EA ? Heck no...   They may as well decide to close the mod down just because something is "pondering" to make a commercial game with their franchise LOL.

[Dragon]

Porting prophecy? That's unlikely! Hey, I wonder, by sure curiosity, would the FSO engine handle nephilim type fighter clusters?

Scooby Doo already released some WCP ships ,I'm unsure about Nephilim clusters ,but I think docking will be a good start (unfortunately they will most likely act different when shoot).

[starlord]

Any type of clusters? The "docked" cluster is reminiscent of the stingray (in which 3 ships dock and undock at random), but what about the ray (with the orbiting remoras), and mostly what about the skate (where you first have to destroy a central pylon and then the 3 skates part)?

[Dragon]

I don't see the way to make Skate clusters work just like in WCP (T versions split apart also after torpedo launch)
,nor the Ray-Remora ,but I think it would be possible to make a WCP era campaign without them.
The Stingray should be possible though.

[KeldorKatarn]

Guys, keep in mind that porting a full game, with prophecy even one that's been recently republished for gameboy advances, is probably not a good idea if you want to stay clear of trouble with EA:
Creating a fan mod is one thing, completely remaking one of their games and using all their original data is another.

I don't know if EA would do anything, but total remakes have been shut down before out there. So if anything of THAT sort was planned, I'd suggest asking EA for permission first.

[IceFire]

Why port those games...we've already played them.  New stories can be told too

I just hope to see a WC4 Bearcat in WC Saga levels of quality some day.

[starlord]

I quite agree:

To think we have a script of privateer 3 and still nothing has been done to try and implement it somewhere...

[Dragon]

Why port those games...we've already played them.  New stories can be told too

I just hope to see a WC4 Bearcat in WC Saga levels of quality some day.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,52678.msg1064310.html#msg1064310
Try this one.
(it could use some table modifications)
Scooby Doo released a huge number of ships from Wing Commander universe that are not going to be included in WCS ,so there is a lot of possiblities.
I think what should be ported are the shipsets ,so remaking the campigns would be teorethicaly possible.
In my opinion anyone can try remaking campaigns ,but it should be up to FREDers.

[IceFire]

Why port those games...we've already played them.  New stories can be told too

I just hope to see a WC4 Bearcat in WC Saga levels of quality some day.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,52678.msg1064310.html#msg1064310
Try this one.
(it could use some table modifications)
Scooby Doo released a huge number of ships from Wing Commander universe that are not going to be included in WCS ,so there is a lot of possiblities.
I think what should be ported are the shipsets ,so remaking the campigns would be teorethicaly possible.
In my opinion anyone can try remaking campaigns ,but it should be up to FREDers.

Neat!  But not a faithful reproduction of the Bearcat. Nothing wrong with that either...just really like the original