[Colonol Dekker]

Right guys, rare as it is for me to start a topic outside of GD, i thought this would be a refreshing change of pace from where's Bosch and Earth Comms etc.
 From the fall of Vasuda command.ani you can id a few Zod fighters. Also the Banshee tech description mentions "when fired in atmosphere". So what fighter do you suppose they tested it on, if at all? any other cannon evidence i may have missed apart from the obvious Hermes?

[Mars]

Transports are shown to work interatmosphere. If you can get the brick that is the Satis to fly, pretty much everything is up for grabs.

[Colonol Dekker]

Yeah my oops. I forgot about that one. I can't remember which craft are mentioned in the deleted scenes in the FSref bible, you know the one. In the GTD repulses bar, when the Earth official signs the cease fire with the Vasudans.

[Mongoose]

If Terran and Vasudan ships have managed to implement some sort of artificial gravity system, it doesn't seem all that far-fetched that they've also managed to flip them around and create some sort of Star-Wars-esque repulsorlift technology.

[ShadowGorrath]

According to the 'Bible of FreeSpace' all fighters and bombers are capable of atmospheric flight. Which means they can fly in atmosphere.

[terran_emperor]

Well, the Perseus, Peagasus, Ulysses and Aeres all cetainly look aerodynamic.

But there is no way in hell that the Ursa is Atmosphere capable. Let me put it this way - the contents of a furnature  store stand a better chance of atmospheric flight than the Ursa, which is LESS aerodynamic than a cow.

Now the shivans...I doubt it, but it is possible...based on what i know had to be cut from FS2 during development. Although, if you stick strictly to what is seen in the 3 canon campaigns, then no - shivans never enter a planet's atmosphere to attack it. They bomb it from orbit...or they nuke the central star

[Mars]

Well, the Perseus, Peagasus, Ulysses and Aeres all cetainly look aerodynamic.

But there is no way in hell that the Ursa is Atmosphere capable. Let me put it this way - the contents of a furnature  store stand a better chance of atmospheric flight than the Ursa, which is LESS aerodynamic than a cow.

Now the shivans...I doubt it, but it is possible...based on what i know had to be cut from FS2 during development. Although, if you stick strictly to what is seen in the 3 canon campaigns, then no - shivans never enter a planet's atmosphere to attack it. They bomb it from orbit...or they nuke the central star

According to you're wrong. FREESPACE SHIPS ARE CAPABLE OF ATMOSPHERIC FLIGHT. It is observed in both the FS reference bible and in cutscenes. Some cargo containers are stated to be made for both space and atmospheric use. Although it never says that destroyers can fly, transports and fighters most certainly can. Ursas carry harbingers, which are for planetary bombardment. Transports are seen flying away from a Vasudan city in a cutscene. I really don't see what's so hard about accepting it.

As a matter of fact, there's utterly no proof that things need to be aerodynamic in order to fly in freespace. Most likely they depend on some sort of anti-gravity.

You might have a point with the shivans, which are stated to lack any interest in planets, other than nuking their enemies.

[Colonol Dekker]

Ursas were developed to deploy the harbinger don't forget. Before that point they were reserved exclusively for orbital bombardment. Seeing as no other bomber could carry that bomb i'd say it was a capital weapon beforehand.

[Aardwolf]

Guh I am sick of these 'atmospheric flight' debates... and the Ulysses does NOT look aerodynamic at all. In fact, when Nuke was messing with atmospheric flight stuff, he said it was incredibly UN-aerodynamic.

[Snail]

Guh I am sick of these 'atmospheric flight' debates...

People who are sick of FS debates shouldn't be on HLP then, or at least shouldn't post in the threads.


I for one agree that atmospheric flights are possible within the FS universe, it's been said in the FS Ref Bible that at least some ships (cargo containers, transports) can fly/float/generally survive in a planet's atmosphere.

[Rodo]

well I would be pointless to have a huge army of just space faring ships, the link between the ground and the space has to be broken and not only by a specialized craft, Also It's true that some of these models do not look that aerodynamic but it's 23rd century.... anti-gravitation systems should have been invented by that time..hell if they discovered subspace travel already...

[terran_emperor]

According to you're wrong. FREESPACE SHIPS ARE CAPABLE OF ATMOSPHERIC FLIGHT. It is observed in both the FS reference bible and in cutscenes.

1) show me the exact quote
2) show one instance in canon where anything larger than a transport/freighter is FLYING in an atmosphere (that crashed Hades doesnt count)
3) Clearly you didn't read my first sentence - I said that the Perseus, Pegasus, Ulyses and Aeres all LOOK aerodynamic...

Here's how i classify the FS fighters and bombers according to Aerodynamicity (is that a real word?) *Im leaving out the Shivan Fighters, because canonically they dont go near planets except to blow the crap out of them from orbit.¹
Fighters/bombers that look distinctly aerodynamic
GTF/GVF/PVF Ulysses
GTF Angel²
GTF Valkyrie
GTF Perseus
GTF Pegasus
GTF Aeres
GTB Athena
GTB Artemis
GTB Artemis DH
PVF Anubis
GVF/PVF Horus
GVF/PVF Seth
GVF/PVF Thoth
GVF Serapis
GVF Ptah
GVB Bakha³

Fighters/bombers that look slightly Aerodynamic
GTF(B)⁴ Apollo
GTF Hercules
GTF Hercules Mk II
GTF Myrmidon
GTF Erinyes
GTB Medusa
GTB Zeus
GVF Tauret⁵
PVB Amus
GVB/PVB Osiris

Fighters/bombers that can't be Aerodynamic
GTF Loki - It's looks as aerodynamic as a brick...
GTB Boanerges - Its another flying brick
GTB Ursa - It looks as aerodynamic as a house

¹ I'm ignoring the GVB Sekmet as that is essentially a reskinned SB Nahema
²While the GTF Angel has never been seen in canon, the GTF Valkyrie is described in canon as the Angel with 2 extra engines, so i imagine it looks almost the same as the Valkyrie...Venom's non-canon Angel model in the FSPort is a very good attempt.
³ This has to be a joke - In addition to Bakha's mythological origin, translating that name in japanese you get the GVB Idiot
⁴ this refers to the Two-seat Bomber Variant mentioned in the RefBible and seen in the FS1 intro
⁵ WHAT THE FRAK IS AN APSU-HEK?

[TrashMan]

They don't have to be aerodynamical to fly in-atmosphere. They might not be fast if they are a big block, like the Ursa, but still.

IIRC, one of the cbani's from FS1 shows an Ursa flying over hills and shooting missiles.

[terran_emperor]

Really? I guess ill have to look for that one.

[Wobble73]

Tie a big ass rocket to any brick and it will fly! 

[Mobius]

As a matter of fact, there's utterly no proof that things need to be aerodynamic in order to fly in freespace. Most likely they depend on some sort of anti-gravity.

Good point here. Also, don't forget that we don't know how effective spacecraft engines can be in atmospheres, I guess they're powerful enough to "win" gravity. They're certainly capable of thrust vectoring, which helps a lot.

And please don't reply with "FreeSpace craft are slow in space, how do you expect them to work fine in atmospheres?" or something like that because, in the Universe, spacecraft are much faster than in-game. Look at how fast the transports evacuating Vasuda are and, more importantly, look at the Herc and the Manticore showed in the intro cutscene of FS2.

Speed and thrust vectoring is what a spacecraft needs to enter the atmosphere of a planet, perform well and survive.

[ShadowGorrath]

Both FS intros show how fast the ships are. In the FS2 one, the vasudan fighters, and GTB Medusas fly from far away to the battle above the planet in Deneb. And then there are the CB anims.

Next, there are artificial gravity and etc. systems, otherwise Petrarch, you, and the entire crew of the Aquitaine would be flying aroung the mainhall of FS2. Same goes for the Psamtik, Bastion and Galatea mainhalls. If there was no artificial gravity, then you'd be flying around inside the ships, with accidents with some newbie colliding with a cargo container full of Harbingers. So since there are artificial gravity systems, I'm pretty sure that they have anti-gravity systems as well.

And terran_emperor, if you doubt that there is said about FS ships being capable of atmosphere flight in the FS Ref bible, then check for that yourself.

[Colonol Dekker]

In all fairness to the Emperor, i remember mentions of craft in cutscene layouts but not a definitive "every ship" statement. I could well be wrong but lets not persecute. I reckon with some additions an Argo could enter atoms.

[terran_emperor]

Being aerodynamic helps when flying in the atmostsphere. And then there's the mass and/or weight to speed problem.

Let me put it this way - An orion as is stands is more likely to crash than fly when in an atmosphere.

Since there's no canon-evidence for anything larger than a transport/freighter flying within an atmosphere, Zod ones as well, and no-one can provide me with statment on the matter, I'm going to stick to the following Rules:

1) Terran, Vasudan and Shivan Capitals are Space-only craft.

2) Shivans are a spacefaring race they - live on massive hive/colony ships and construction is done in massive Star Forge-like facilities. They only time they approach a planet is bomb the crap out of it.

3) GTVA millitary is split into two divisions -Ground and Space. The Ground branches of the millitary are the Army, Navy and Airforce. Space Branches include the Star Navy (Us FS player play Fighter Jocks within this branch). Marines opporate within both devisions.

4) Of terran and Vasudan Space-fighters, only the following are Atmosphere Capable

Fighters/bombers that are designed to opporate in both space and an atmosphere
GTF/GVF/PVF Ulysses
GTF Angel
GTF Valkyrie
GTF Perseus
GTF Pegasus
GTF Aeres
GTB Athena
GTB Artemis
GTB Artemis DH
PVF Anubis
GVF/PVF Horus
GVF/PVF Seth
GVF/PVF Thoth
GVF Serapis
GVF Ptah
GVB Bakha

Fighters/bombers that can fly in an atmosphere, but it is not recommended that they do
GTF/B Apollo
GTF Hercules
GTF Hercules Mk II
GTF Myrmidon
GTF Erinyes
GTB Medusa
GTB Zeus
GVF Tauret
PVB Amus
GVB/PVB Osiris

Fighters/bombers that are for Space, and space alone
GTF Loki - It's looks as aerodynamic as a brick...
GTB Boanerges - Its another flying brick
GTB Ursa - It looks as aerodynamic as a house

5) Of Transports and freighters
Transports and Freighters that are atmosphere capable
GTFr Chronos
GVT/PVT Isis
PVFr/GVFr Bast
PVFr/GVFr Satis

Transports and freighters not atmosphere capable
GTT Elysium
GTT Argos
GTFr Poseidon
GTFr Triton
GVFr Bes
PVFr Ma'at

Terran Troop Transport for Ship-to-surface are unseen, but resemble the Dropship from Aliens.

6) I use the B5 Earth Alliance as a Basis for how the GTA, later GTVA works. I do this as long as i dont run into contradictions. Sure i get a couple of Retcons - Terran Military has landing craft which are never seen in canon, that sort of thing - but nothing too major.

---

And terran_emperor, if you doubt that there is said about FS ships being capable of atmosphere flight in the FS Ref bible, then check for that yourself.

Ive got the refbible, checked it and the only mention of Atmosphere that is applied to a specific piece of Tech, refers to the sound the Banshee makes when fired in an atmostphere.

Here are the Exact quotes i get for searching the RefBible for "Atmosphere/Atmospheric"

1) From a Cutscene stage-text
 There’s some goofy music somewhere. Atmosphere is pretty subdued and bleak.

2) From a Paragraph about Vasudans
They’re bipedal, have two eyes and a mouth, and have nearly the same atmospheric & respiration needs.

3 & 4) From the description of the GTW-7 Banshee
...in an atmosphere, the pulse creates an atmospheric disturbance similar to a quasi-human scream at 180 dB...

I can find no mention of this "every ship" statment, and as no-one can provide the official statment from will count this "every ship" statment as 1) Apocrapha¹; or 2) fanon; but either way complete bulls41t.

¹ by apocrapha - i mean some one from gave this in a spoken statment, with no written record. This is unlike the Talnia system...That system is Canon...just like the isle of avalon, no-one knows where it is. The generally agreed upon location is Sheer speculation, unless that legendary Pre-Release node map turns up again.

The transports and Freighters mentioned in the deleated Cut-scenes are not given a class. These cut-scenes were canned at an early stage in development, so the ships were never given a definite class. Anyone who says that they did have a specific class is telling porkies...

Thanks for the support Colonol 

[TrashMan]

If a big, blocky transport can fly in atmosphere (and it can. this is canon), then why couldn't a big blocky fighter or a big blocky fighter?

Given that anti-grav exists in FS, it just doesn't make much sense that some craft can't fly in-atmosphere simply cause they don't look "right" to someone. What's looks got to do with anything?