[LordPomposity]

There's also the factor of the jump drive. No sane commander would just sit there if they can't win.

Aren't we talking about the Colossus here?

[Luis Dias]

Ok, but if you are going to add 60 fighters to the colly, then it's only fair to add 60 fighter support for our Durgas, since the main proposition was durgas vs colly, not durgas vs colly and its entire squadrons.

[Hades]

There's also the factor of the jump drive. No sane commander would just sit there if they can't win.

Aren't we talking about the Colossus here?

Different commander.

Ok, but if you are going to add 60 fighters to the colly, then it's only fair to add 60 fighter support for our Durgas, since the main proposition was durgas vs colly, not durgas vs colly and its entire squadrons.

You can't have a capitalship versus another ship without factoring in the fighter support it can field, otherwise it's a stupid versus argument, since it'd be highly unrealistic for it to not have/use its fighter compliment.

[Luis Dias]

And you can't have multiple bomber wings without factoring in the fighter and frigate / destroyer escort they'll likely have in its bombing run.

Hell, let's bring the whole fleets and smash them together.

Oh wait, we lost the whole point.

otherwise it's a stupid versus argument.

I've been sayin that from the beggining . It's still the quickest test you can make.

[Hades]

And you can't have multiple bomber wings without factoring in the fighter and frigate / destroyer escort they'll likely have in its bombing run.

Uh, that'd be suicide to commit that many of the UEF capitalships to that fight. They only have three destroyers, and if they engaged, even if they aren't killed by the Colossus, they'd be easy targets.

[MatthTheGeek]

Hades' right. If you're gonna simulate the potential of ships vs ships, you've got to take all the factors into account, including fighter complements.

Problem is, if we're incuding the Collie's fighter complement, we've got to add the fighter escort of the Durga, which in all logic, would comprise enough fighters to take care of the Collie's escort. So on the other hand, we've got to include the warship escort the Collie will surely have. With their own fighter escort.

And so on.

There is a point we have to stop that little game, or we're gonna simulate a large-scale war. Which isn't the point.

[Luis Dias]

Hades is surely right, I was merely making a general point, without being specific.

And so on.

Hey I said that.

Which isn't the point.

HEEEEY

[Scotty]

Hades' right. If you're gonna simulate the potential of ships vs ships, you've got to take all the factors into account, including fighter complements.

Problem is, if we're incuding the Collie's fighter complement, we've got to add the fighter escort of the Durga, which in all logic, would comprise enough fighters to take care of the Collie's escort.

The problem with this kind of pissing contest is that there is no cap to the number of Durgas (other than the hundred or so fluff cap) we can hypothetically sling at the Colosssus.  A hundred of ANY decent bomber would beat the **** out of ANY capital ship.  It's not exactly a ringing endorsement of the Durga's ability.

Neither is yelling "BUT THEY HAVE AN ESCORT" to argue away all of the Colossus's own fighter complement.

To be perfectly clear, there is no way to arrange this to the satisfaction of both sides.

[Luis Dias]

The problem with this kind of pissing contest is that there is no cap to the number of Durgas (other than the hundred or so fluff cap) we can hypothetically sling at the Colosssus.

So I may conclude that you didn't get the point?

I've said that this was a completely idiotic "contest" if it was to be made in the way you are defining it.

What I then said was something completely different, which is not to say "who is better", but rather turning it into another question:

How many Durgas does it take to take down the Collossus?.

In this way we get a proportional clue on how tougher the Collossus is in relation to the Durgas, and it is a very precise question with a definite answer to be found. Is it as tough as 20 Durgas? 30? 40? 100?

Leave out the wings, etc., to "further analysis". Keep it simple at the start. Then we can add complexity.

If we are still interested, that is.

[Hades]

Hades' right. If you're gonna simulate the potential of ships vs ships, you've got to take all the factors into account, including fighter complements.

Problem is, if we're incuding the Collie's fighter complement, we've got to add the fighter escort of the Durga, which in all logic, would comprise enough fighters to take care of the Collie's escort. So on the other hand, we've got to include the warship escort the Collie will surely have. With their own fighter escort.

And so on.

There is a point we have to stop that little game, or we're gonna simulate a large-scale war. Which isn't the point.

Well no. The UEF likely wouldn't be able to commit so many fighters to one battle, else they be open to attack elsewhere. Same if they send so many bombers at them. It's just not worth it, and the Colossus is only drawing away much needed UEF cannon fodder forces from elsewhere.

The Colossus would be perfect against the UEF, it's large, so it'll attract attention. It's powerful, so it's hard to engage. It's tough, so it's hard to take down. On top of that, they can't commit too many forces to try and take it down else they be open to counter attack by other GTVA forces, plus the Colossus would be extremely hard to kill, numerous fighters and bombers.

[Luis Dias]

Oh come on. First, the Collossus *doesn't exist* in BP universe anymore. So if we are willing to accept its existence, we might as well admit the existence of a spare bunch of Durgas. Second, if the Colly "exists" then you might bet for sure that the UEF will try to bring it down to destroy Tev's moral.

[SpardaSon21]

Oh come on. First, the Collossus *doesn't exist* in BP universe anymore. So if we are willing to accept its existence, we might as well admit the existence of a spare bunch of Durgas. Second, if the Colly "exists" then you might bet for sure that the UEF will try to bring it down to destroy Tev's morale.

I fixed that for you, since I fail to see how destroying a Colossus will morally degrade the GTVA.

[LordPomposity]

Oh, look. A thread in the BP forum has turned into a Buntu/Tev dick-wagging contest. It must be a day that ends in 'y'. 

[QuakeIV]

Oh, look. A thread in the BP forum has turned into a Buntu/Tev dick-wagging contest. It must be a day that ends in 'y'. 

 

[Hades]

Oh come on. First, the Collossus *doesn't exist* in BP universe anymore. So if we are willing to accept its existence, we might as well admit the existence of a spare bunch of Durgas. Second, if the Colly "exists" then you might bet for sure that the UEF will try to bring it down to destroy Tev's moral.

There's the fundamental problem, the Colossus is too important and powerful to ignore, and too tough for them to directly engage. They'd likely need numerous, numerous ships, bombers capitalships. But considering the state of the UEF after WiH, that'd leave other sectors of UEF space open fore attack, due to relocated forces.

Also, are you daft? This argument assumes the Colossus exists in the BP universe, else it's a stupid argument to go 'hurr durr colossus v durgas except colossus doesn't exist makes sense rite' or to have Durga's at modern technology while the Colossus is still using what is technically pre-Capella technology.

Oh, look. A thread in the BP forum has turned into a Buntu/Tev dick-wagging contest. It must be a day that ends in 'y'. 

Welcome to most threads on BP.

[Fury]

The Vajra has been remodelled to be a rapid-fire anti-cruiser gun

Son, I am disappoint.

[Colonol Dekker]

TB-80 Devastator Bomber > Durga

Durga = Wolverine / Grendel. 


(disclaimer, i forget which model the durga was inspired by)

[Darius]

The Vajra has been remodelled to be a rapid-fire anti-cruiser gun

Son, I am disappoint.

Considering the previous version was just a super Archer, this is a far better use for it.

[Luis Dias]

Also, are you daft? This argument assumes the Colossus exists in the BP universe, else it's a stupid argument to go 'hurr durr colossus v durgas except colossus doesn't exist makes sense rite' or to have Durga's at modern technology while the Colossus is still using what is technically pre-Capella technology.

What I meant to say is that if we are willing to give the existence of Colly a get-go, then all this talk about how Durgas should be in limited numbers 'coz BP canon is ridiculous.

[-Norbert-]

The second would would likely see total completion, and would likely be slightly different, with better materials or construction all around, learning from the mistakes of the first model.

The GTVA did learn from their mistakes. That's why they didn't build another Colossus and instead went for a high mobility force, purpose build for quick manouvering and shock-jumping.

And I have to agree with Luis Dias here. On one side we have a magically conjured up Colossus, clearly defying BP canon, but on the other hand we may not bring more Durgas into the scenario than the UEF has, because it would defy BP canon? Doesn't make much sense.
Also a Colossus isn't just going to magically appear out of thin air (or vacuum). It has to be build using money, materials and manpower (not to mention it takes time). Ressources that in BP canon went into the construction of the rest of the fleet and the portal.
So if the GTVA had a Colossus, there wouldn't be any Titans and Raynors and far fewer next-gen Corvettes, which would make a massive strike at the colly much less risky for the UEF, because the GTVA simply dosen't have the necessary ships to mount a "backdoor offense", or at least not an offense devastating enough to equal the loss of the Colossus.