[Gray113]

Major Spoilers

Now that Act 3 has given us a clearer picture of both the GTVA's motives for starting the war and of how the UEF government has operated during the isolation period I would like to ask my fellow players how Sol is going to change once the assult on Earth is successfully resolved and the GTVA take control of Sol. (Not counting the powerful alien forces waiting in the wings)

In particular:

How will the populace react to martial law and the removal of democracy in favour of direct military rule?

             - Can the GTVA prevent rebellion with the forces at their disposal?
             - Can the GTVA trust the remains of the UEF security forces to enforce the peace treaties?

How do the GTVA deal with the leadership of the UEF?

             - Will the council of Elders be killed off / disappeared to a remote research facility for a future of brain dissection?
             - Will there be a purge of possible Vishnan influenced persons from Earth society

Will the Fedayeen disband or continue to act as an underground movement?

             - Will the Fedyaeen hand over Cassandra to the GTVA if told to do so?
             - Will the GTVA try to eliminate them or try to bring them over to their side?

Will the change over from trade to war production cripple the economy of the Sol system or boost it - bearing in mind that the Terrans are dependent on the Vasudans to support their own systems.

             - Are the security council even capable of sustaining the complex systems that the UEF government employed? Especially after the mass losses of infrastructure caused by the war.
             - Will the UEF traders be allowed to develop open trade routes with the rest of Terran space or will these be strictly controlled by the Terran governors?
             - Same as above but with GTVA traders in Sol space.

Will we see forced exoduses from Sol as the GTVA tries to stabilise the colony world populations?

              - Will the GTVA stop diverting resources to the terraforming of Mars and the Jupiter moons leaving these settlements to die off as they see the other system colonys development more important?
              - Will the Kuiper belt colonys be removed and the Gaian Effort destroyed?

How would the GTVA deal with public anger over war crimes and atrocities carried out by both sides during the war?
             
              - Possible truth and reconciliation commission used to calm emotion within the civilian population?
              - A war crimes tribunal against senior members of the UEF military?
              - An official apology for the bombing of civilian targets?

Can the GTVA bring the populace over to their side or will the GTVA be seen as hostile invaders?

              - Can revealing the existence of the Vishnans to the general populace help or hinder the GTVA takeover?
              - Will there be reprisal attacks / assassination attempts against high ranking GTVA personnel such as Steele and Severanti?

This is intended as a thought exercise only and if someone did one before then I apologise. It just seems as though with act 3 we have a clearer picture of the whole situation and this should make for some fun speculation.

[Jellyfish]

I see massive revolts once the dissapearance of the Elders is brought to light. They will be as damaging to the GTVA as the war itself in the long run, and will make it continue to divert military resources to Sol well after the war is over.
They also have to spend resources and time rebuilding what they shot up. Resources and time they possibly don't have.
The Gaian Effort, who will realize the GTVA is even more damaging to the planets they control than the UEF, will turn on their former 'allies' and start harassing GTVA assets. The GTVA will respond in force. More and more Gef cells will be drawn to the conflict.
The Fedayeen are an interesting case. I can't tell if they will continue with their operations against GTVA assets in Sol in an effort to make it so costly to occupy the GTVA will leave, or escape the system to where they can do more damage. Either way, they will be a prize target for the GTVA.

As for the economy, if I recall, the GTVA broke the piggy with the war against the UEF. Retaking Sol will not be enough to alleviate the tension. And they will continue to be in wartime economy until the Shivan (and possibly the Vishnan) threat is confirmed destroyed once and for all. Which will never happen.

[The E]

A lot of it obviously depends on the manner in which the war is concluded.

Let me shoot a few holes in your questions:

How will the populace react to martial law and the removal of democracy in favour of direct military rule?

The GTVA does not have the military strength to do a full occupation of Sol.

Will the council of Elders be killed off / disappeared to a remote research facility for a future of brain dissection?

Knowing that, why would they kill off the one set of authority figures that is actually respected across Sol space? Wouldn't doing so increase the risk of a civilian uprising (one that would be impossible to control, and would be very likely to spread to other GTVA systems)?

Will the Fedyaeen hand over Cassandra to the GTVA?

Again, this depends on the manner in which the war is ended. Personally, I would find it unlikely.

Will the change over from trade to war production cripple the economy of the Sol system or boost it - bearing in mind that the Terrans are dependent on the Vasudans to support their own systems.

Sol has an enormous raw economic power, but there is little that can be converted into military production quickly; Retooling and rebuilding the shipyards, as well as retraining the workforce, will take a few years, years in which the economic boost will be felt in other areas first.

Will we see forced exoduses from Sol as the GTVA tries to stabilise the colony world populations?

See above re: Inciting rebellions. The GTVA, while certainly more authoritarian than other governments, is not an absolute dictatorship.
Besides, if your goal is to contain Ubuntu as much as possible, spreading citizens who have experienced no bad side effects from living under Ubuntu all over your area of influence strikes me as a bad idea.



All in all, the GTVA you describe is villainous to an extreme we (as the BP team) did not intend. The GTVA is harsh, yes. It will make some decisions that the Sol populace may not agree with, yes. But at the same time, there is no benefit to courting disaster by behaving like a bunch of jackasses towards a population that is 1. the same size as the GTVA's, 2. Concentrated in a single system, and 3. able to coordinate.

[crizza]

Noemi killed one Elder, which wanted the war to end, we know that some Elders are under vishnan "controll", so silence them and tell the rest to maintain public order, no need to kill everyone.

[General Battuta]

Why do we know some Elders are under Vishnan control?

[NGTM-1R]

And even if you do, how do you tell that?

[crizza]

Thought Ken said so^^

[Luis Dias]

Well, accidents tend to happen. It's quite unfortunate that no one gets to live forever. Or fortunate, depending on the point of view.

[Gray113]

The E
Criticisms noted and post altered

[The E]

Please don't do that. It makes the thread hard to read and arguments hard to follow; it's better to make a followup post and link to it from the OP or something similar.

[General Battuta]

This is a cool thread full of interesting, well-thought questions!

[Gray113]

My apologies I didn't have time to do it properly this morning but still wanted to get somthing up as I would have forgotten otherwise. After going over the post also felt that it was to anti GTVA.

How it is listed now is how I intended to pose the questions

[Phantom Hoover]

It's good etiquette to refrain from making major edits to a post after somebody replies, especially if they quoted you.

[Suongadon]

Will the Fedayeen disband or continue to act as an underground movement?

             - Will the Fedyaeen hand over Cassandra to the GTVA if told to do so?
             - Will the GTVA try to eliminate them or try to bring them over to their side?


How would the GTVA deal with public anger over war crimes and atrocities carried out by both sides during the war?
             
              - Possible truth and reconciliation commission used to calm emotion within the civilian population?
              - A war crimes tribunal against senior members of the UEF military?
              - An official apology for the bombing of civilian targets?

Does anyone outside of the Fedayeen know what Cassandra is? I was under the impression that no one else knew, so the tevs wouldn't have any way to find out about it unless the Fedayeen volunteer the information.

While I've had this image of Noemi being hung at the culmination of a sham trial at the end of the war for a while now (irrelevant coincidence), what war crimes has the UEF committed? They weren't the ones dropping the nukes on civilians, or attacking refugee convoys, or assassinating elders on sanctioned diplomatic missions. Not yet, anyway.

[CT27]

The GTVA does not have the military strength to do a full occupation of Sol.


All in all, the GTVA you describe is villainous to an extreme we (as the BP team) did not intend. The GTVA is harsh, yes. It will make some decisions that the Sol populace may not agree with, yes. But at the same time, there is no benefit to courting disaster by behaving like a bunch of jackasses towards a population

Two questions based on your points (assuming a GTVA victory):

1-If they don't have strength for a full Sol occupation, what would "victory" in their mind entail?  Are they hoping they get a bunch of collaborators?

2-If/when the GTVA does win, how do they hope to maintain sovereignty over Sol without being super harsh?

[The E]

The GTVA cannot hope to do a conventional occupation of Sol for any length of time (Like what the Allies did after WW2); they simply do not have the manpower to do that. What they can do, however, is control the interplanetary and interstellar travel. If the UEF fleet is beaten, then the GTVA can police the solar system and impose order by threat of orbital strikes while leaving the governments of Sol (those beneath the level of the Elders) intact.

[Klaustrophobia]

the fedayeen i believe will remain/shrink even further back into the shadows.  the impression i got from my playthrough is that after laporte's excursion through the nagari realm, the fedayeen are ready to break from the elders and become an independent entity, concerning themselves only with preventing the vishnan/shivan cull of the human race.  they will only act in the UEF/GTVA conflict pursuant to that goal.  in act 3, that meant preventing UEF defeat.  who knows how that will change (or if it will be too late) if the GTVA prevails.

i can imagine them "faking their death" so to speak.  turn in the maysaf and appear to disperse, but really procure another ship and restart off EVERYONE's radar including the elders, or continue to run shadow ops from wherever they end up, coordinating however they can.  they sure as hell aren't going to submit to the GTVA's authority.  i didn't think anyone outside the fedayeen knew about CASSANDRA, but i'm sure they won't give it up even if someone does.  maybe they give them some other giant supercomputer and say it's CASSANDRA.  or make up some other crap about what it is.

[-Norbert-]

Noemi killed one Elder, which wanted the war to end, we know that some Elders are under vishnan "controll", so silence them and tell the rest to maintain public order, no need to kill everyone.

The Elders are definately not controlled by the Vishnans, or at least no longer. Shortly after the war they lost contact with the Vishnan and that "silence" is making them nervous.

[Aesaar]

While I've had this image of Noemi being hung at the culmination of a sham trial at the end of the war for a while now (irrelevant coincidence), what war crimes has the UEF committed? They weren't the ones dropping the nukes on civilians, or attacking refugee convoys, or assassinating elders on sanctioned diplomatic missions. Not yet, anyway.

Scorched earth protocols on populated stations.  Hell, if you let Simak get captured in TBI, you have to kill it yourself.   So you even get to perform a war crime!

[crazy_dave]

Noemi killed one Elder, which wanted the war to end, we know that some Elders are under vishnan "controll", so silence them and tell the rest to maintain public order, no need to kill everyone.

The Elders are definately not controlled by the Vishnans, or at least no longer. Shortly after the war they lost contact with the Vishnan and that "silence" is making them nervous.

There is also "being controlled" versus "being influenced" versus "in contact with". It is not clear how much the Elders were puppets or dupes or simply "primed" to be receptive to the Vishnan's advice or simply receptive because they were good ideas. At the moment I wouldn't trust anybody - Ken, Bei, Vishnan, or Shivan. Of course if you're an ant, you may not have much choice in you who you trust ... and it would appear (granted appearances may be deceiving) that Humans and Vasudans are in a poor position to negotiate their survival with the Vishnans and Shivans.