[Drogoth]

While I've had this image of Noemi being hung at the culmination of a sham trial at the end of the war for a while now (irrelevant coincidence), what war crimes has the UEF committed? They weren't the ones dropping the nukes on civilians, or attacking refugee convoys, or assassinating elders on sanctioned diplomatic missions. Not yet, anyway.

Scorched earth protocols on populated stations.  Hell, if you let Simak get captured in TBI, you have to kill it yourself.   So you even get to perform a war crime!

You also assassinate an elder in Act 3.

Strap GEF's to flying bombs in the first mission, and in some cases, kill them.

The Arethusa was destroyed under flag of truce. 

[An4ximandros]

 That definitely went well for us treacherous sons of *****es. Nothing's better than dead Tevs.

This reminds me, what happened to the captured technicians?

 Regarding Vishnan contamination, I would foresee massive Spanish Inquisition style SOC squads getting permission to, forcefully, 'extract' compromised individuals.

[Drogoth]

That definitely went well for us treacherous sons of *****es. Nothing's better than dead Tevs.

This reminds me, what happened to the captured technicians?

 Regarding Vishnan contamination, I would foresee massive Spanish Inquisition style SOC squads getting permission to, forcefully, 'extract' compromised individuals.

In terms of the circumstances of how the technicians from he Sampson were captured they better have been returned onboard the psedjet. If they weren't it won't exactly help the UEF's case on that particular issue.

[Suongadon]

While I've had this image of Noemi being hung at the culmination of a sham trial at the end of the war for a while now (irrelevant coincidence), what war crimes has the UEF committed? They weren't the ones dropping the nukes on civilians, or attacking refugee convoys, or assassinating elders on sanctioned diplomatic missions. Not yet, anyway.

Scorched earth protocols on populated stations.  Hell, if you let Simak get captured in TBI, you have to kill it yourself.   So you even get to perform a war crime!

You also assassinate an elder in Act 3.

Strap GEF's to flying bombs in the first mission, and in some cases, kill them.

The Arethusa was destroyed under flag of truce.

But the Fedayeen aren't a part of the UEF military, or answerable to anyone but themselves, so holding the conventional military leaders accountable for their actions doesn't fly. 

And for the Arethusa, accident, yes, war crime, no. No one outside of the area had any idea there was a truce in effect. And the Tevs had already returned fire by the time the Indus' captain said so. Unless there's some sort of bug that crept in somewhere ****ing with the timing?

I did forget about the scorched earth thing though.

then again, my aunt just reminded me that war crimes are what the people with power at the end of the war say they are. So hey, maybe Kyle will get his comeuppance after all.

[aledeth]

RE: Scorched Earth policy: I don't think you can call it a war crime when it's standard GTVA military doctrine too.

[Drogoth]

RE The Fedayeen and their impact on War Crimes

It doesn't matter. This will be a PR war to gain legitimacy for either side. If some rogue unit of the CIA went around gunning down civilians, legally their superiors wouldnt be responsible. They weren't following orders.

But they would still be held publiclly accountable for letting that unit go rogue in the first place.

Further more, the Fedayeen are backed by UEF tech, funding and support. The Elders effectively hand them a blank check to do whatever they want.

That makes them at least complicit in anything the fedayeen does, and in a propaganda battle it makes them look much worse.

Ditto for the Arethusa. Both sides should have immediately sent back a fighter to inform command, since comms were down. Neither side did that, and it was still an accident, but this is about optics. Not actual guilt. You can pitch these things as war crimes to gain a facade of legitimacy. By the time the ruling comes down, the PR war has been won or lost.

[-Norbert-]

You also assassinate an elder in Act 3.

The GTVA assasinated an Elder in a mission of peace with the GTA's own allies, using terrorists to cover up their tracks.
The UEF shot down a fleeing traitor.

Strap GEF's to flying bombs in the first mission, and in some cases, kill them.

Those pilots were known terrorists, part of a cell that's responsible for many innocent death'. Do you really think the general public will care much about them?
If you want something to put blame on the Fedayeen, better call them out for shooting down the UEF figher patrol that came to investigate the attack on the Vasudan convoy.

The Arethusa was destroyed under flag of truce.

As Suongadon already said, this was an accident. One that could have been avoided if the Deimos hadn't started jamming communications.


If you blew up the GEF habitat, that would have been a war crime, though considering we are talking about Kostadin cell here, it's still a far-shot from the bombing of Luna.

In short, yes the UEF and the Fedayeen in particular have done some very questionable things, but the GTVA is in no position to complain, seeing as how they did the same or even worse things themselfs.

[crazy_dave]

Flying false flags while engaging the enemy is almost always considered a war crime (or against the "rules of war") and both sides have done it. Of course, unlike the reverse, the GTA doesn't actually know that the Fedayeen successfully pulled off a false flag operation. So they wouldn't actually know to prosecute those actions. In history, some have skirted around this rule by flying a false flag right up until the point of engagement and then showing their "true colors" (where that expression come from ). I'm not sure if by modern standards that's considered okay or not. And who knows the rules governing such operations are in the BP universe.

Very little else done by either side is actually a war crime even as we would define it by the UN treaties. The entire area is a defined war zone. Civilian casualties are allowed in war as long as there was a military objective and care was taken to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible under the circumstances. Because of the last caveat, there's actually flexibility with the scale of the war and the particular circumstances of the operation. Since we're not privy to the details of the Beta-Acquilae convention that at least the GTA nominally adheres to, one cannot be sure exactly what their rules of war are. Since it's stipulated that the GTA has activated their total war conditions, total war is what actions would probably be judged by if the GTA has won the war and is so judging.

e.g. both the blowing up the GEF habitat if you chose to do that and possibly even the bombing of Luna would both pass. The GEF one is easy as you could argue that the defenses were too powerful for capture and the situation extreme as the comet was going to crash into Earth killing everyone in the comet anyway and hundreds of millions if not billions of people on Earth.

Of course all this is moot if the GTA were simply interested in conducting sham show trials to help legitimize their invasion after the war.

[Luis Dias]

While I've had this image of Noemi being hung at the culmination of a sham trial at the end of the war for a while now (irrelevant coincidence), what war crimes has the UEF committed? They weren't the ones dropping the nukes on civilians, or attacking refugee convoys, or assassinating elders on sanctioned diplomatic missions. Not yet, anyway.

Scorched earth protocols on populated stations. 

Is this about the GEF rock that is about to blow up an entire planet, and where the only possibility that you have is to blow up their core reactor, and thus kill innocents as collateral damage?

I wasn't aware that war crimes included actions that were necessary to save an entire planet.

[niffiwan]

I think it was a reference to The Blade Itself.

[Luis Dias]

Oh.

[crazy_dave]

I think it was a reference to The Blade Itself.

As I wrote above, I doubt much that has been done so far by either party would be considered war crimes, including that. The exception would be the false flag operations. But the GTA doesn't actually know the Fedayeen successfully pulled one off.

Some of the decisions one was forced to make may be difficult, but few if any were truly against the rules of war (i.e. a war crime, the exception being the aforementioned first mission - forcing the captive GEF pilots to attack the convoy as the GEF).

[Crybertrance]

Wait. When did any GTVA or UEF Warship fly under false flags?

Also, I blame the Arethusa  incident on the Arethusa herself, If she hadn't started comms jamming, The Indus could've notified command abuot the truce instantly.

[Apollo]

Wait. When did any GVA or UEF Warship fly under false flags?

During that mission where you kill Vasudans and frame Kostadin Cell.

I doubt the GTVA would put UEF leaders on trial for war crimes; it would only serve to make them look hypocritical and piss off civilians.

[Crybertrance]

Wait. When did any GVA or UEF Warship fly under false flags?

During that mission where you kill Vasudans and frame Kostadin Cell.

Oh. But I still don't think the GTVA could pin that on the UEF, Fedayeen? Sure, Council of Elders? Sure....but the UEF Navy? I'm not so sure.

[crazy_dave]

Wait. When did any GVA or UEF Warship fly under false flags?

During that mission where you kill Vasudans and frame Kostadin Cell.

Oh. But I still don't think the GTVA could pin that on the UEF, Fedayeen? Sure, Council of Elders? Sure....but the UEF Navy? I'm not so sure.

Well they can't pin it on anyone since they don't know it happened - remember the mission was a success. Steele is smart and might have his suspicions, but he still turned on his former Kostadin. They can't pin on anyone what they don't know happened. The UEF however know the GTA pretty much did the exact same thing to them, using the GEFs to fly a false flag as being UEF allies. Of course Laporte was happy to have that particular GEF commander pay for his subterfuge with his life.

[rubixcube]

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but has no one considered that the GTVA might actually lose?

[Drogoth]

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but has no one considered that the GTVA might actually lose?

Heresy.

Command, designate a new target for Operation MORPHEUS....

[rubixcube]

 

[MatthTheGeek]

Well, militarily, unless a miracle, and/or Steele having a sudden hearth attack...