[MatthTheGeek]

Your argument presuppose I will play many games with the joystick if I buy it. I don't intend to, if I can avoid it. That's why I have a mouse and a keyboard for. So, no thanks.

[Sushi]

That's still 30 bucks I don't want to spend, thank you very much. I have a perfect input device in my hand here (no pun intended) and I don't intend to buy something I will use just for one mod that some people have managed to convince me to not play anyway.

Why don't you see the good thing to have a joystick ? It's not only for SAGA, but all the mods for Freespace 2 or all games that support Joystick. And 30 € is very cheap and if you can afford to get one with force feedback, you can't go back to mouse control. Count all the time you will play with it, you won't waste your money.

I'm not willing to spend the (considerable) money OR desk space it would require to get a joystick that has as good small-movement precision as even a $10 mouse.

I actually bought a T-Flight Hotas X a year or so ago. I resold it about three weeks later out of frustration.

[MetalDestroyer]

Well, it is a matter of habit. The first time, sure, playing with joystick is painful while it is about precision. But the more time you play with, you'll get acustom with and be better. There are thing you couldn't do with a mouse like doing some sort of super maneuver and well you don't have force feedback with a mouse.

Ok, HOTAS don't have force feedback either except the Logitech G940. 

[Quanto]

Some maneuvers simply can't be done with a mouse. Simple as that. And there is truly a no more rewarding feeling than feeling like a Top Gun Ace rocking the missiles and lasers into the assholes of every enemy pilot you come across.

[Angelus]

Some maneuvers simply can't be done with a mouse. Simple as that. And there is truly a no more rewarding feeling than feeling like a Top Gun Ace rocking the missiles and lasers into the assholes of every enemy pilot you come across.

This.

I never understood why mousecontrols were used in a spacesim anyway.

[Commander Zane]

The same reason why every game with a form of flight has mouse control? So everyone has an option?
I'd say the same thing about keyboard control, but what I just said immediately invalidates that argument.

[Spoon]

Some maneuvers simply can't be done with a mouse. Simple as that. And there is truly a no more rewarding feeling than feeling like a Top Gun Ace rocking the missiles and lasers into the assholes of every enemy pilot you come across.

This.

I never understood why mousecontrols were used in a spacesim anyway.

This is quickly getting really dumb.
If you seriously can't figure that out... 

[Qent]

Hasn't QD been over this to death? The keyboard gives you fast turning. The mouse gives precision. Joysticks fall somewhere in-between. That's why he uses the keyboard and mouse together.

I'm not sure where the WC-style mouse would fall, but I'm guessing somewhere near joysticks. For me, the more options the better. But I find myself using the keyboard more with this, so it's all good.

[MatthTheGeek]

Some maneuvers simply can't be done with a mouse. Simple as that.

That's why I ALSO have a keyboard at hand's reach. Simple as that.

[Commander Zane]

I'm not sure where the WC-style mouse would fall, but I'm guessing somewhere near joysticks.

Is there even a word for it? As far as I'm aware the best definition for it is joystick-emulated.

[Qent]

Hm. There must be another name, since it's quite common. It's the same thing when I click the mouse wheel to scroll smoothly. And when I highlight more than a page of text. Certainly neither of those are emulating a joystick.

[jr2]

EDIT: And XBOX360 wired controllers work with and Windows XP on up PC or laptop with a free USB port.  Not sure about PS controllers, but XBOX360 should be around $30 IIRC... gotta check that.  ... yup, $30 incl shipping.

You could always get one of those, and use XPadder / PPJoy / all that good jazz.

[Sushi]

Well, it is a matter of habit. The first time, sure, playing with joystick is painful while it is about precision. But the more time you play with, you'll get acustom with and be better. There are thing you couldn't do with a mouse like doing some sort of super maneuver and well you don't have force feedback with a mouse.

I should probably clarify that when Freespace/Freespace 2 first appeared, I played them with a joystick. Trust me, I know what a good joystick feels like, and have probably logged a thousand hours of my life into various flight & space sims with a joystick. I'm not sure what "super maneuvers" you're talking about, but with a mouse and a smart keyboard mapping I feel like I can pull off all of the moves I want, without sacrificing precision, even in a 6DOF environment (Which neither WCS nor Freespace is). This gets even better if I can use the toggleable scripted mouse, and switch between "Freespace-Style" and "WCS-style" mouse flight at the click of a button.

That said, I can't argue with the fact that joystick (especially HOTAS) just plain feels cool and can be lots of fun. I've just discovered that it isn't for me, and that mouse+kb is perfectly viable and effective.

[newman]

Choice is good. I personally like my G940 HOTAS with force feedback, especially used with trackIR pro. But there are some things to keep in mind. Cheap joysticks can often bring more frustration than anything else to the table, and not everyone is willing to shell out 300$ or above for a top of the line system. Nor sacrifice so much desk space, or go through the trouble of setting the whole thing up, pedals, throttle and stick included, to work right with every game you want to use it for.
So while I personally don't like to play with mouse only, saying "buy a good stick" to anyone who wants to doesn't seem like a good policy to me.

[Aginor]

I'm also owner of a G940 (because I play a lot of flight sims when I have time to) and I admit I now play the game with an old MS Sidewinder Precicion Pro because my arm really hurt after playing with the G940. The Force Feedback feels good, but it is rather strong, and the G940 is also more precise, but the problem is that you have to move the stick much farther to achieve the correct response. (ok, maybe I could make it more sensitive... I'll try that)

Also I don't seem to be able to assign the throttle (including all the buttons on the throttle) and my rudder pedals to the controls. Is it even possible to use joysticks in FSO that consist of more than one USB device?

That's why I use the other stick at the moment. I'm not that good with mouse controls. I've never been.

[newman]

I'm also owner of a G940 (because I play a lot of flight sims when I have time to) and I admit I now play the game with an old MS Sidewinder Precicion Pro because my arm really hurt after playing with the G940. The Force Feedback feels good, but it is rather strong, and the G940 is also more precise, but the problem is that you have to move the stick much farther to achieve the correct response. (ok, maybe I could make it more sensitive... I'll try that)

You can adjust the strength and resistance of the stick easily. I've had no such problems.

Also I don't seem to be able to assign the throttle (including all the buttons on the throttle) and my rudder pedals to the controls. Is it even possible to use joysticks in FSO that consist of more than one USB device?

That's because Logitech, in it's infinite wisdom, decided it's a good idea to have G940 register the stick, pedals and throttle to windows as 3 separate devices. This means that any game that doesn't support 3 input devices like that aren't going to work with it.

Unless you use ppjoy. It's a free app that will take any input devices you might have and combine them into a single "virtual" joystick. You then tell any game (FS2_open based stuff too) to use the ppjoy virtual joystick as the input device. Works pretty well for me, but it is a bit of work to get it working right under windows 7 64 bit. It's possible though. This also illustrates why it's a good idea not to nerf mouse controls.. some people aren't going to want to go through the trouble of setting it all up.

[Aginor]

That's really cool,
I'll try that, thanks!

[Dragon]

That's because Logitech, in it's infinite wisdom, decided it's a good idea to have G940 register the stick, pedals and throttle to windows as 3 separate devices. This means that any game that doesn't support 3 input devices like that aren't going to work with it.

Unless you use ppjoy. It's a free app that will take any input devices you might have and combine them into a single "virtual" joystick. You then tell any game (FS2_open based stuff too) to use the ppjoy virtual joystick as the input device. Works pretty well for me, but it is a bit of work to get it working right under windows 7 64 bit. It's possible though. This also illustrates why it's a good idea not to nerf mouse controls.. some people aren't going to want to go through the trouble of setting it all up.

Shouldn't G940 come with a special app to do just that? CH Products HOTAS does, and every Logitech device I have came with it's own manager, capable of doing various neat things such as setting macros, assigning letters to buttons and axes and calibrating the device. Usualy there's also a game-specific profiler.

[Hades]

You guys need to go out and buy some Flight Sticks. Jesus.

So I can play WCS alone. No, I think not.

Okay, I'm curious, how would a Flight-Stick make you play alone? Aren't you already playing alone? Its a single-player game. Even then, what about a Flight Stick prevents you from attempting multiplayer? Your logic escapes me.

Oh and Matt, just get a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, they're modern sticks, 30 Bucks, and of good construction. They may not have force feedback, but they're good solid sticks.

He's saying he's not going to go out and pay money for a flightstick he'll only use for WCS.

[Aginor]

@Dragon:
There is such a program and until now it worked perfectly, I use the stick for some old DOS games like Privateer for example. In the worst case I define the throttle buttons as keyboard commands. No Problem until now. But somehow Saga does not even recognize a key is being pressed, which is really weird.
I'll try again and test it, though, perhaps it was my fault.