Author Topic: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"  (Read 372772 times)

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
I have built... a VTOL jet. It is ugly, and flies like a drunken chicken, but it works (for various definitions of the word "works").




Still haven't been able to actually turn it around and land without horrible flopping about and crashing.

 
Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
I've made a few attempts at sending a fuel depot to Eve orbit, though, admittedly, none of them has yet to get to Kerbin orbit.  It suffers from a bad case of OMGTEHPHYSICS at various stages of launch and orbital insertion.  For the longest time, the issue was the primary lift stage causing a massive stack collapse, as it dropped empty tanks, since with those empty tanks would drop the gigantic, egg-shaped mass of struts and girders that distributed the engines' force around the secondary (and almost entirely superfluous) lift stage.  While I did manage to sort that out, the secondary (and almost entirely superfluous) lift stage has so much thrust that, without any of these structural outriggers of its own, its thrust causes a massive stack collapse.

Now, while I think I honestly could make this version of the Eve depot work, I'm probably just going to give it a rethink and redesign instead.  This version was designed more with the goal of being giant and silly, while I was in a sleep-deprived stupor, so I think I want to restart with a more sensible foundational design, rather than continuing to use the current, tempermental version.

Probulator 1000 also carried out its mission around Jool, providing crucial information about the viability of solar power at that range.  Apparently in the Kerbal solar system, the law of inverse squares is more of a law of inverse square-roots, at least with respect to light.  With Jool about four times as far from the sun as Kerbin, you'd expect power output from solar panels near Jool to be one-sixteenth that of solar panels near Kerbin.  In fact, output was only halved.  This means that solar arrays are a lot more useful in the far-flung reaches of the Kerbal solar system than you'd expect, but not as great around the inner planets as you'd hope.

After carrying out that mission, Probulator 1000 performed a series of aerobraking maneuvers, only to find that you can't really use aerobraking to tune your Joolian orbit, the way you can with Kerbin.  Because Jool is so huge, even if you don't go very deep into the atmosphere, you'll be in it for absolute ages.  All the while, your apoapsis just drops and drops and drops.  It's great for a capture maneuver, certainly, but if you try to drop your apoapsis below a couple million meters by aerobraking, you'll drop your apoapsis into the depths of the planet, even if your targeted periapsis is in the upper ten percent of the atmosphere.

Other than that, I've just done a couple of supply runs to the Hub & Grub.  With the prospect of having a depot in orbit of Eve, I've come to the realization that I'll need to make a long-range oiler, and probably one with a bigger payload capacity, since multiple fueling runs to and from Eve would be a huge pain in the ass.

Anyway, loads of good SCIENCE! going on.

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
My Program is still in its infancy but its slowly growing. 

Early work consisted of some initial manned orbital missions and putting up some satellites, both small orbiters and larger geostationaries:









Current project directives are working towards setting up missions to the Mun and beyond.  Thus a slowly growing stable of interplanetary drone ships are being tested and fitted out:



Noticing that the space above Kerbal is beginning to thicken with spent stages I've put together a Fleet Tug design in hopes of chasing down and de-orbiting spent crap:



With an eye towards supporting future long haul missions this Fleet Oiler/Depot design is being tested out, its by far the largest rocket I've slapped together:



Plus a few silly things like a Kerbal X-Plane and SA-23E Kerbal Fury:



“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 

Offline newman

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
Hey Slayer, cool stuff there. That interplanetary drone carrier is a good, rugged design. I should know, since mine's almost identical and has delivered probes and even heavier payloads to every corner of the Kerbol system :) It's latest mission was delivering an empty habitat to Duna, for a future manned visit once the Discovery gets finished in it's orbital berth. In addition, it's aft drop tank was once again refitted into a probe, this time not to probe Jool's atmo but to land on Duna's north pole instead. The probe was dropped 12 hours before Duna periapsis and has managed to safely land at Duna's North Pole using parachutes only (since it wasn't equipped with any means of propulsion whatsoever - this made choosing the atmosphere insertion angle rather important; too steep and the force from main chute activation would have ripped the probe apart, not steep enough meant missing the polar region completely or even having the probe escape Duna). Having detached the probe, activating all it's systems, putting chutes on standby and extending panels, the Duna Orbital changed course and eventually ended up in Duna 70km equatorial orbit, from which it deployed the empty habitat capable of supporting 6 Kerbonauts, to be delivered later by the Discovery.




Duna Orbital departing Kerbin, carrying the surface habitat for a future manned mission and a polar probe (re-purposed aft drop tank; I find this rather practical).




Detaching the polar probe 12 hours and 44 minutes away from Duna. Course has been set for polar collision, making the angle as parachute-friendly as possible. I've seen probes ripped apart from too steep interplanetary atmo injections before when chutes activated, so I was kind of worried about this part, thinking I should have at least put some means of propulsion on it. Luckily, it turned out well.




Polar probe on approach.




Chutes deployed, probe still in one piece, that's a relief.




And it hasn't even tumbled over when it touched down!




Gravity is awesome. This was taken during Duna Orbital's final breaking burn that resulted in a 70x70km equatorial Duna orbit.




Habitat detached and breaking for atmo contact. It was equipped with a small 360 capacity fuel tank and a few of those small radial LFE's to give it minimal maneuverability when picking a landing spot. The target is the mouth of a large canyon. The engines were also critical in lower atmo...




..because without them slowing the craft down just before the main chutes activated, it would have probably been ripped into a bunch of spare parts.




And here we are, on the ground. You can see that large canyon in front of the habitat. All deployed, it's now waiting for it's future occupants.
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
my attempt to mod air breathing engines created some kind of super-engine that can get you most of the way to the mun without any out of atmosphere burns. of course my ship was meant to be an aircraft and didnt have any space propulsion, so i was unable to correct my return trajectory which pointed right at the middle of kerbin. this was made worse by the fact that my aircraft was a slap together and had horrible pitch control. no chance of pulling out of that 4000 m/s dive.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 
Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
So, I made that bigass, interplanetary refueling ship that I was talking about.  Its payload is two large RCS tanks, a Rockomax X32 tank, and twelve FL-T400 tanks, for a total liquid fuel capacity of 3600 units.  Now, to get it into Kerbin orbit, I did have to drain some of the payload into the lift stage, but it is up there with a whole 150 units of liquid fuel left.  (There's quite a bit more in the tanks feeding the transit engines, but there's no sense sending it anywhere, without any payload onboard.)

Fortunately, the way I designed this thing, the payload stage is meant to remain perpetually in space, while the command module can detach and land on Kerbin, only to be replaced for later missions.  I'll just be using the smaller oilers to refill the big one a little sooner than I expected.

In other news, I finally managed to successfully launch my next attempt at an orbital cleanup drone.  It used nearly all of its fuel to get it into orbit, so it's also waiting on an oiler to come round, before it can get to work, since it doesn't even have enough juice left to get to the space station.  Once its been refueled, though, I'll be able to start deorbiting some of the clutter in Kerbin's 100km orbit, without resorting to the cheesy 'End Flight' button.

I'm fast learning that the most important vessel to a successful space program is a capable, low-orbit refueling craft.  I'd have been frustrated long ago, had that little oiler not turned out to be so awesome.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 01:21:28 pm by BlueFlames »

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
when building large ships with large tanks, i tend to use those tanks to fuel boost engines, so i can have a more massive upper stage, i then have to send a tanker up as well to refuel it for its mission.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline newman

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
when building large ships with large tanks, i tend to use those tanks to fuel boost engines, so i can have a more massive upper stage, i then have to send a tanker up as well to refuel it for its mission.

That's exactly the ticket for some of the more massive parts. For example, when I was launching my Discovery (interplanetary manned ship) engine section, which is quite big, the ascent stage just couldn't launch it quite high enough for the engine section's NERVAs to finish the job. Then I added fuel lines that lead from the engine section's tanks (a bit over 13,000 units of fuel + whatever oxidizer) to the ascent stage. The mainsails first started draining the ship's engine section tanks (upper stage), when they were down to some 500 units of fuel I cut flow and the ascent stage tanks took over. What this gained me is not only more fuel and duration for the mainsails, but also much less mass for them to lift for most of the ascent - with this approach the whole thing got the engine section to a 200km altitude, from which the engine section's NERVAs with the remaining fuel easily finished the job. Three fuel lines literally meant the difference between successfully orbiting the thing and having it crash back down. Easy enough to refuel the thing once in orbit..
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

  

Offline watsisname

Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"


That's not how fuel transfer is supposed to work! :lol:

In my world of sleepers, everything will be erased.
I'll be your religion, your only endless ideal.
Slowly we crawl in the dark.
Swallowed by the seductive night.

 
Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
As your empty tanks were destroyed, your ratio of fuel to capacity (which is what those bars indicate) increased.

Nothing wrong with explody-funtime, though.  ;)

 

Offline watsisname

Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
Ah, I should have thought about the fuel capacity changing.

Next project:  Smash a prograde and retrograde satellite together.  ~4km/s impact velocity, ho!
In my world of sleepers, everything will be erased.
I'll be your religion, your only endless ideal.
Slowly we crawl in the dark.
Swallowed by the seductive night.

 

Offline newman

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
Nice shot, kid, that was one in a million!
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 
Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was only METERS away from my first ever orbital docking, after a couple of hours of almost perfectly matching orbits. I was recording with FRAPS so I could put it up later.

You know what key FRAPS defaults as "record"? F9
You know what key KSP defaults as "quick load"? F9

 

Offline newman

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was only METERS away from my first ever orbital docking, after a couple of hours of almost perfectly matching orbits. I was recording with FRAPS so I could put it up later.

You know what key FRAPS defaults as "record"? F9
You know what key KSP defaults as "quick load"? F9


.....FRAAAAAPS!

You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
-snip-

That's not how fuel transfer is supposed to work! :lol:


never aim straight for the target at high velocity. aim a little to the side, and then slow down as you fly by, once thats done, then do a slow approach.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline watsisname

Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
It was intentional, thus the name 'Debris Maker'. :P

In other news, my aforementioned goal of colliding things at >4km/s was a success!  Gallery

« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 06:22:13 pm by watsisname »
In my world of sleepers, everything will be erased.
I'll be your religion, your only endless ideal.
Slowly we crawl in the dark.
Swallowed by the seductive night.

 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
* StarSlayer self Gibbs' slap

I built a tug to cart down spent debris, but heck an ASAT might work better and yield more explosions.

After a few tweaks I've upped my Carabinier Drone Interplanetary Ship to version 1.8 :



Once I get the hang of docking this baby will be carting Sats and Probes to the stars
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 09:59:50 pm by StarSlayer »
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 
Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
My Eve mission is slowly coming together.  I have an interplanetary oiler and an interplanetary spacebus.

I'm going to put the oiler into Eve orbit, detach the command pod, and bring the crew back on the spacebus.  Then, I'll send up a small, automated hub to dock with the oiler.  A second oiler and a small habitation module will round out the refueling station over Eve.  After that, all that will remain is to actually plan out and build the Eve landing-and-return mission.  Easy!

 

Offline watsisname

Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
I have an interplanetary oiler and an interplanetary spacebus.

In my world of sleepers, everything will be erased.
I'll be your religion, your only endless ideal.
Slowly we crawl in the dark.
Swallowed by the seductive night.

 
Re: Kerbal Space Program or "Rocket science is harder than it looks"
I have an interplanetary oiler and an interplanetary spacebus.

[image snip]

More or less.  It's a pretty simple modification of my old Minmus Hopper, which wound up going out to orbit Duna and Ike, and came back to Kerbin with fuel to spare.  This time, instead of just a three-man command pod with a parachute on the nose, it has the same command pod, with a single habitation unit below, a docking port at the top, landing legs at the bottom, and extra chutes to help ease the extra mass down, when it gets home.

Tonight, I got the Eve station hub into Kerbin orbit.  Next on the docket will be to send up a small oiler to refuel the hub's transit stage and the spacebus.  Then, I'll send up another interplanetary oiler, another spacebus, and the (yet to be designed) station power module.  Once all of those have had their fuel tanks brimmed, I think I'll be ready to launch the whole fleet off to Eve and begin actually fitting the bits of the station together.

Yeah....  Fleet operations....  This can only end poorly.