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Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: General Battuta on January 06, 2013, 11:18:11 am

Title: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: General Battuta on January 06, 2013, 11:18:11 am: (http://blueplanet.hard-light.net/bpheadersmall.jpg)
These conversations are chronologically ordered and non-simultaneous.

Aboard GTD Atreus

Vampires. Track 12, count 24, origin Solaris platform (DD-03/CCV01). Response smoke. Smoke up. Count 23. Response phalanx. Phalanx up. Count 12. Response chainmail. Damage report -

New track. Vampires. Track 13, count 48, origin Solaris platform (DD-03/CCV01). Response smoke -

Continuing pattern 2, WINTER KING, target Solaris (DD-03/CCV01). Mass check. Heat check. Power check. Initiate fire cycle. Stand by -

Sir, Serkr reports their target is withdrawing. War plot updated with the last sweep -

Scythe Actual, pull in to bullseye plus one, provide close cover against bomber attack. Be advised, hostile group CCV is launching a new package. Check datalink -

"Sir."

"Captain Lindemann."

"Rear Admiral Leinonen wishes to report that the Saturn engagement was successfully resolved."

"I've seen. Very good."

"Sir. Will we be pressing our advantage? The Toutatis may stand and fight - "

"Not today, Captain. Some day we'll dance our little dance to the end. But not today."

Aboard UEFg Masyaf

"What was it like for you in there?"

"The Red Room? I barely remember. I didn't stay long."

"Nothing to heal? No damage to fix? Typical."

"Vidaura brought me in. I was ready the moment the implants took. Before that, probably."

"Mm."

"Speaking of damage. Looked outside?"

"She's a wreck. You think she'll fight again?"

"Remains to be seen."

"Is this supposed to be a metaphor, Falconer?"

"**** no. I don't think she'll survive one mission."

Aboard GTD Carthage

"Sir."

"Captain. Please, take a seat. Would you like a drink?"

"Not today, sir. I - here - have the latest reports. Armor's back to spec, including the reactive packages. But the structural damage goes deep."

"We won't be able to transit the node."

"Not for another two weeks, minimum."

"And the battle group?"

"The Deianira and Iolanthe are both fit to fight. Crews have been cycling through Neptune HQ for decompression and psych scrub. The Radhanite has finished her drive workup. As for the rest..."

"As wrecked as our air wing?"

"Effectively."

"I hate this place, Captain."

"Sir?"

"This dockyard. This system. This war. I hate what it's done to us. I hate what we had to do."

"It was a decisive victory, sir - "

"That's not the question. Was that ever the question, with him in command? The question, Captain, is what you pay, and why. What you feed the machine."

"Sir. On that note. I - several other captains and I would like to assist you with the letters you've been writing."

"That's my job. Call a staff conference for 0800 tomorrow, Captain. I'm going to detach the Radhanite for some maneuvers and I want to have the fuel to top her off when she returns. We're on our way out of this war, Captain, but we're not gone yet."

Luna City, Luna

"Elements, Overwatch. I have municipal access. Target is local and traceable."

"Elements, Entry. We have your trace. We have authorization to bag. Executing -- "

"Hold! Overwatch has one-five individuals breaking out of social traffic and converging on the suite. Hand weapons and armor -- "

"****."

"Hostiles are in the municipal net. Attempting to isolate and - "

"They're SOC. Grab the target and get out. I'm scrambling local law enforcement and spaceborne assets. Execute now!"

"Copy that. All elements, there's another shark in the water, we are executing immediate. Go go go."

"****."

Jiuhua Shan, Anhui Province
listen to this conversation (http://blueplanet.fsmods.net/voicepreviews/oldmenconversation.ogg)

"Admiral. May I?"

"Martin. Please. Call me Wen Jian. It's been too long."

"It's a lovely model. Laser planed?"

"Yes. She's the Arifiel. One of mine."

"I came here to ask you a question, face to face. It's one we've asked and argued about before. But it comes back to me again and again."

"Morpheus."

"Yes. You read it. Is it the reason? For all this?"

"It is never, ever wise to seek a single cause for something so vast, Martin. Your Council taught me that."

"But is it a reason?"

"Of course it is."

"Steele's coming. I don't need to be an Admiral to know that."

"He'll hit you as hard as he can, every day, every hour, to keep you on your back foot. And then he'll give you an opening. He'll give ground. You'll spring for it. You'll take the lives he offers you as credit: this is a real victory. You'll stretch yourself out and feel a little hope and then...he'll snuff you out."

"You know him?"

"He tried to do it to me in an exercise, when I really was an Admiral. You have weeks. Days."

"Second and Third Fleets are out of our control. If we could just draw them back from Steele - save their strength for - "

"I have a question for you, Martin. Vicmouth's report. Taudigani's recovered files. I've decided to act, and I want your approval."

"What will you do?"

"Nothing. But my son - "

War in Heaven Act 3: Tenebra is coming soon.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Phantom Hoover on January 06, 2013, 11:26:35 am: Oh my god you're doing it. You're making it happen.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: headdie on January 06, 2013, 11:41:55 am: attempt to hook successful, very intriguing saying lots and nothing much of substance compared to what we know
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Aesaar on January 06, 2013, 11:47:09 am: IT'S HAPPENING.

These were just as interesting as the last set. Which is to say, very.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: swashmebuckle on January 06, 2013, 12:01:03 pm: Did the Toutatis get beamed? Can we get a discount? Super excited for more BP!
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: redsniper on January 06, 2013, 12:15:17 pm: Who the hell is Wen Jian?

Also,

IT'S HAPPENING (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q9TYUr-Teo)
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: The E on January 06, 2013, 12:17:30 pm: Admiral Bei Wen Jian. Ex-CO, 14th Battlegroup, GTD Orestes.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: redsniper on January 06, 2013, 12:18:44 pm: GOD

MY

OH

(I thought Bei was the surname, or do they put surname first I guess?)
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Phantom Hoover on January 06, 2013, 01:59:52 pm: Yeah, a lot of Asian languages (and Hungarian) do that. Sam's full name is Samuel Bei Cheow Keng, so I suppose his parents combined the two systems.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: An4ximandros on January 06, 2013, 02:01:25 pm: Quote
"What will you do?"

"Nothing. But my son - "

LAPORTE/SAMUEL DUEL, No Shivans, No Vishnans, No Feds or Tevs, Final Destination.

PS: Netreba is forked.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Col.Hornet on January 06, 2013, 02:19:36 pm: Well, I only want to say that I'm waiting with impatience for this release. BP was always specific mod to me :D I hate AoA truly, but War in Heaven was a mod which "forced" me to play it more then once. Much much better than it's first part. I hope that this trend will continue ;)

Er... but these damn final exams in High School. I don't even have enough time to play or keep on with my own mod...
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: crizza on January 06, 2013, 02:53:05 pm: Great, can't wait to get it :)
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: knossosfs2 on January 06, 2013, 05:14:25 pm: I can already tell that this release is going to be amazing.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: niffiwan on January 06, 2013, 05:30:35 pm: Looks awesome :D

Luna City - I presume we're seeing Fedayeen vs SOC - but who is the target that they both want?!?! If it were from a SOC POV and the Fedayeen were trying to stop them it would be simpler, but it seems that the Fedayeen are bagging someone and the SOC are either stopping them, or bagging the same target? Maybe the target is a UEF defector (or similar) that the Fedayeen are "taking into protective custody" and the SOC are trying to extract?
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: ^Graff on January 06, 2013, 05:37:43 pm: Quote from: niffiwan on January 06, 2013, 05:30:35 pm
Looks awesome :D

Luna City - I presume we're seeing Fedayeen vs SOC - but who is the target that they both want?!?! If it were from a SOC POV and the Fedayeen were trying to stop them it would be simpler, but it seems that the Fedayeen are bagging someone and the SOC are either stopping them, or bagging the same target? Maybe the target is a UEF defector (or similar) that the Fedayeen are "taking into protective custody" and the SOC are trying to extract?
Probably the person who leaked the information about Elder Lin Taudigani to Steele.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: niffiwan on January 06, 2013, 05:49:36 pm: ah yes, that would fit, thanks :D
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: CT27 on January 06, 2013, 07:32:25 pm: As a GTVA supporter, there's some good sounding stuff and some worrying stuff in there.

I hope the Carthage doesn't mutiny.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Phantom Hoover on January 06, 2013, 07:41:41 pm: Since that would pretty much trash Lopez as a character I don't think it will. She might hate the war and the toll it takes, but she knows what's at stake given the alternative.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Useful Dave on January 06, 2013, 08:08:38 pm: If the count is referring to the salvo-sized from a Solaris, that's a painful amount of hurt they can fling free.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: niffiwan on January 06, 2013, 08:15:59 pm: Makes sense - "vampires" is a contemporary term for incoming missiles, and a Solaris can fire up to 48 in a salvo :)

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_%28disambiguation%29
Aboard NATO vessels, the use of the brevity code 'Vampire' indicates incoming hostile anti-ship missiles. The warning is usually repeated twice, as is standard for all military warnings issued in combat
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Veers on January 07, 2013, 03:17:51 am: I can't sit still right now, anticipation is reaching critical levels.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: The E on January 07, 2013, 03:21:37 am: The WiH Update is live. Get it here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70745.0
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: An4ximandros on January 07, 2013, 03:22:13 am: Downloading now. See you on the other side, pilots.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Veers on January 07, 2013, 04:17:00 am: I am speechless....

Spoiler:
The into is just... amazing. Fabulous work and congrats on the release

Edit:
I am noticing one issue though
Spoiler:
When at the weapons load out screen. The blue lines that show firepoints are not located on the ship, but are instead located further to the right of the screen. Not breaking or anything as such
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: LordPomposity on January 07, 2013, 05:18:30 am: i most download an update
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Flak on January 07, 2013, 05:22:01 am: I wonder whether that particular part refers to the Indus or Simms or maybe both.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Leeko on January 07, 2013, 05:40:15 am: Wow this act just started balls deep in awesome.

Seriously though, who on the BP team has the hots for Assassin's Creed? UEFg Masyaf, "Nothing is true, all is permitted,"?
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: LordPomposity on January 07, 2013, 05:46:33 am: Quote from: Leeko on January 07, 2013, 05:40:15 am
Wow this act just started balls deep in awesome.

Seriously though, who on the BP team has the hots for Assassin's Creed? UEFg Masyaf, "Nothing is true, all is permitted,"?
Because Assassin's Creed totally invented both that name and that phrase. :p
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: The E on January 07, 2013, 05:48:35 am: All discussions about the new stuff should be placed in the WiH discussion thread.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Veers on January 07, 2013, 06:27:48 am: I thought Buttata said for it to be here though? eh.. I'm probably just reading it wrong. My eyes have melted from Awesome-ness. Probably helps to keep it in the WiH thread as it is still, WiH.

Quote from: General Battuta on January 07, 2013, 01:55:25 am
Act 3 discussion goes here! Conversations from Tenebra is here! (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=83302.0)
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: [Wolf]Maverick on January 07, 2013, 06:53:52 am: Downloading now, i left early from work for this!
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Darius on January 07, 2013, 06:57:46 am: He's just making sure people know that this is here if they're getting caught up in the excitement of release.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Aesaar on February 04, 2013, 12:05:40 pm: I'm bumping this because I'm sick of always having to go look for it.

This thread and the other conversations thread should be stickied.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: General Battuta on February 04, 2013, 12:20:38 pm: They're both linked in the stickied Blue Planet Library thread.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 04, 2013, 12:26:05 pm: They're also here (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Blue_Planet_Extras_Portal).
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Aesaar on February 04, 2013, 12:29:26 pm: God damn it stop making me look silly!

:p
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Gray113 on February 04, 2013, 12:29:40 pm: Have you got any more intel entries planned for the next release? The background to the war is a huge part of my enjoyment of the game
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: An4ximandros on February 04, 2013, 12:47:04 pm: Jez pls. Can we have some more background fluff on Kyle Netreba? We never do hear about him.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 04, 2013, 01:07:30 pm: Quote from: Aesaar on February 04, 2013, 12:29:26 pm
God damn it stop making me look silly!

:p
I'm just showing what's already there ! Nothing more.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Drogoth on February 05, 2013, 12:38:03 am: Quote from: General Battuta on January 06, 2013, 11:18:11 am
(http://blueplanet.hard-light.net/bpheadersmall.jpg)
These conversations are chronologically ordered and non-simultaneous.

Aboard GTD Atreus

Vampires. Track 12, count 24, origin Solaris platform (DD-03/CCV01). Response smoke. Smoke up. Count 23. Response phalanx. Phalanx up. Count 12. Response chainmail. Damage report -

New track. Vampires. Track 13, count 48, origin Solaris platform (DD-03/CCV01). Response smoke -

Continuing pattern 2, WINTER KING, target Solaris (DD-03/CCV01). Mass check. Heat check. Power check. Initiate fire cycle. Stand by -

Sir, Serkr reports their target is withdrawing. War plot updated with the last sweep -

Scythe Actual, pull in to bullseye plus one, provide close cover against bomber attack. Be advised, hostile group CCV is launching a new package. Check datalink -

"Sir."

"Captain Martache."

"Rear Admiral Leinonen wishes to report that the Saturn engagement was successfully resolved."

"I've seen. Very good."

"Sir. Will we be pressing our advantage? The Toutatis may stand and fight - "

"Not today, Captain. Some day we'll dance our little dance to the end. But not today."

Isn't Captain Martache CO of the Toutatis? That's at least what the wiki says (and to my memory, Calder speaks to him in his lines in Aristeia - i can't check on this computer)

Either this is a typo, or Steele has a secure com link to a very highly placed agent.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: An4ximandros on February 05, 2013, 01:07:53 am: Woah, You are right! The CO of the Toutatis is working for the GTVA.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: rubixcube on February 05, 2013, 01:48:11 am: oooooo, the plot thickens (as if it wasn't thick enough already :D)
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 05, 2013, 02:44:18 am: Quote
(19:05:52) Aesaar: hmm, coversations from Tenebra thinks Martache is the Atreus's captain
(19:06:10) Aesaar: but he's actually the Toutatis camptain
(19:06:21) Aesaar: accordong to aristeia
(19:06:52) MatthTheGeek: might be an oversight
(19:06:57) Aesaar: yes
(19:07:04) Axem: or its a coincidence
(19:07:08) Darius: martache is definitely on the toutatis
(19:07:08) Aesaar: or he's just that badass
(19:07:35) Aesaar: he captains the two most badass ships in Sol
(19:07:37) Darius: there are over 50 martaches enlisted in the gtva and uef
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: X3N0-Life-Form on February 05, 2013, 03:16:45 am: Martache is so badass he can be in two places at once, and actually has to fight himself to encounter any sort of challenge.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: General Battuta on February 05, 2013, 09:25:53 am: loooooooool
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Drogoth on February 05, 2013, 12:40:36 pm: Quote from: X3N0-Life-Form on February 05, 2013, 03:16:45 am
Martache is so badass he can be in two places at once, and actually has to fight himself to encounter any sort of challenge.

No kidding.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Apollo on February 05, 2013, 02:41:16 pm: The wiki says Calder is the Toutatis's commander, but Martache is its CO.

I didn't know there was a difference.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Aesaar on February 05, 2013, 03:11:38 pm: Martache is the Toutatis captain.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: An4ximandros on February 05, 2013, 03:13:53 pm: Martache commands the ship, Calder commands the fleet (and thus the ship as well.)
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: General Battuta on February 05, 2013, 03:15:02 pm: Quote from: Apollo on February 05, 2013, 02:41:16 pm
The wiki says Calder is the Toutatis's commander, but Martache is its CO.

I didn't know there was a difference.

Calder fights the war, Martache fights the ship. Calder's pretty hands-on though!
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 05, 2013, 03:46:27 pm: Martache got so sick of Calder's backseat captaining he took a part-time job on the Atreus
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Apollo on February 05, 2013, 04:03:10 pm: Interesting. I wonder how a Captain gets command of the most directly powerful (now that it has massdrivers) ship in the fleet, when an older ship like the Meridan is commanded by an Admiral.

I guess the UEF does things differently.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Sathanas on February 05, 2013, 04:10:10 pm: Flagships are called that because the flag officer is on board. The Meridian would have a Captain as well for direct command of his ship, but the Admiral has command of his group, which includes that ship. The nitty gritty command responsibilities still fall on the Captain of the ship however
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: General Battuta on February 05, 2013, 04:13:20 pm: Quote from: Apollo on February 05, 2013, 04:03:10 pm
Interesting. I wonder how a Captain gets command of the most directly powerful (now that it has massdrivers) ship in the fleet, when an older ship like the Meridan is commanded by an Admiral.

I guess the UEF does things differently.

Both the Toutatis and the Meridian carry an Admiral as the highest ranking officer aboard, but the ship proper is commanded by a Captain, who directs the ship while the Admiral directs the fleet. (Further confusingly, the man or woman who is currently in command of a warship is always referred to as Captain, even if their formal rank is not Captain - so an Admiral commanding a single ship would be called Captain.)
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Apollo on February 05, 2013, 04:55:07 pm: Oh.

So basically, the Admiral orders the fleet and the flagship around, and the Captain of the flagship carries out the Admiral's orders?

EDIT: Would this extend to retail?
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Sathanas on February 05, 2013, 05:03:48 pm: I believe it applies to navies in general. The Admiral needs a ship to cruise around in, but every ship needs a Captain
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Aesaar on February 05, 2013, 05:47:15 pm: Apollo: An example: Calder tells Martache to attack a Hecate. Martache gives orders to gunnery, telling them where he wants rounds from the gattlers and artillery, and where he wants torpedoes. Then he gives orders to helm to put the ship in a position to avoid damage and maximise weapon coverage. And so on.

Calder then gives similar orders to the other ships under his command.

The GTVA procedure is much the same.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Apollo on February 05, 2013, 06:25:05 pm: OK, thanks. I'd better remember that for my own campaign.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 05, 2013, 06:49:59 pm: Quote from: General Battuta on February 05, 2013, 04:13:20 pm
(Further confusingly, the man or woman who is currently in command of a warship is always referred to as Captain, even if their formal rank is not Captain - so an Admiral commanding a single ship would be called Captain.)

this bit of confusion can and usually is cleared up by referring to the captain as "the CO." "skipper" is an informal way of differentiating the rank of captain from the CO, but i've not actually heard that one used IRL.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Drogoth on February 05, 2013, 07:45:13 pm: I remember reading somewhere that any other officers of 'captain' rank onboard besides the CO (like someone on the admiral's staff) receives a courtesy brevet promotion to Commodore, but only in name, and only when on ship. When off ship they revert to captain.

Confirm/deny?
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Klaustrophobia on February 05, 2013, 07:54:41 pm: there is no rank of commodore in the US navy. i've not ever heard of it being used as a courtesy/staff title. there are captains that aren't the CO on carriers. the reactor officer and the XO usually are. to my knowledge, they are also addressed as "captain" (except when the RO is an asshole and pisses off the civilian chief test engineers :P)
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: General Battuta on February 06, 2013, 07:34:43 am: Quote from: Apollo on February 05, 2013, 04:55:07 pm
Oh.

So basically, the Admiral orders the fleet and the flagship around, and the Captain of the flagship carries out the Admiral's orders?

EDIT: Would this extend to retail?

This extends to real life
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 06, 2013, 07:42:07 am: Quote from: General Battuta on February 06, 2013, 07:34:43 am
This extends to real life

It's supposed to. In the carrier age it usually does, with a flag plot separate from the bridge. But historically not every admiral or group commander has resisted the temptation.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: crazy_dave on February 08, 2013, 12:06:13 am: Quote from: General Battuta on January 06, 2013, 11:18:11 am

"Second and Third Fleets are out of our control. If we could just draw them back from Steele - save their strength for - "

This is what is damaging the UEF militarily the most right now (well this and Steele :P): the discord between 2nd and 3rd fleet commands versus 1st Fleet command and the Council. The UEF are already outmanned and outgunned. Now, far worse, never mind coordinating battle plans and fleet assets with each other, the fleet commands seem to be barely on speaking terms. Delenda Est might not have been quite as bad if 1st Fleet had been able to provide back-up - depending on the circumstances might've even been a victory (doubtful but possible). Also Calder and Netreba might be more circumspect about engaging Steele if they understood the Elder's and Byrne's end game plan (or still might not since we don't know what it is yet, but I think it's implied that neither do the other admirals).
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 08, 2013, 03:36:33 am: If 1fleet had been on standby for DE, Steele would have tried a completely different plan with that taken into account.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Gray113 on February 08, 2013, 03:53:44 am: That plan had been carefully prepared and had taken weeks to get all the pieces in place. Most of Steele's assets were committed and he had not left much room for maneuver so I think that if first fleet had acted to save the Wargods then there is a good chance it would have succeeded. Not in gaining the victory but in buying enough time for the task force to withdraw.

Of course if this would have gone wrong then First fleet would have taken losses which was probably why Byrne would not have acted even if they were on standby but a more aggressive commander would have.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Phantom Hoover on February 08, 2013, 04:54:19 am: If there was any actual chance of Byrne intervening, Steele would have known.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: MatthTheGeek on February 08, 2013, 05:22:42 am: Quote from: crazy_dave on February 08, 2013, 12:06:13 am
Quote from: General Battuta on January 06, 2013, 11:18:11 am

"Second and Third Fleets are out of our control. If we could just draw them back from Steele - save their strength for - "

[...]Delenda Est might not have been quite as bad if 1st Fleet had been able to provide back-up - depending on the circumstances might've even been a victory (doubtful but possible).
I think the point of that quote was more "if 2nd and 3rd hadn't tried to bring the fight to the Tevs, tried to outsmart Steele, they wouldn't have lost the Wargods like this for nothing."

The Elders, Byrne and the Beis would rather Netreba and Calder adopted a similar defensive posture to Byrne. Because rushing in into Steele's traps isn't going to buy time for the Project's deployment.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: Gray113 on February 08, 2013, 05:29:44 am: If they stuck to Byrne's strategy then they would never have captured the Agincourt and the secret project would never be finished in time. I think that is probably going to be more important to the wars outcome than the Wargods.
Title: Re: Conversations from Tenebra
Post by: crazy_dave on February 08, 2013, 06:07:41 am: Quote from: MatthTheGeek on February 08, 2013, 05:22:42 am
Quote from: crazy_dave on February 08, 2013, 12:06:13 am
Quote from: General Battuta on January 06, 2013, 11:18:11 am

"Second and Third Fleets are out of our control. If we could just draw them back from Steele - save their strength for - "

[...]Delenda Est might not have been quite as bad if 1st Fleet had been able to provide back-up - depending on the circumstances might've even been a victory (doubtful but possible).
I think the point of that quote was more "if 2nd and 3rd hadn't tried to bring the fight to the Tevs, tried to outsmart Steele, they wouldn't have lost the Wargods like this for nothing."

The Elders, Byrne and the Beis would rather Netreba and Calder adopted a similar defensive posture to Byrne. Because rushing in into Steele's traps isn't going to buy time for the Project's deployment.

As Grey113 said though, the defensive posture wouldn't have gotten them the Agincourt ... and also if the Elders, Byrne, etc ... want Netreba and Calder to adopt a more defensive posture, they should explain why. Because from the POV of Netreba and Calder the first fleet's position is just as suicidal since Steele would completely control the tempo and timing of the battles. As he showed at Jupiter and the attacks on Earth, he doesn't need traps to ravage the fleets. Therefore, it would be reasonable to explain that there is a plan, but to enact they need to simply delay Steele, they don't need a victory to force loss of political will to prosecute the war in the GTA. My reading, perhaps mistaken, is that Calder and Netreba aren't even aware that there is an end game scenario devised by the Elders much less what it entails.

However, I would argue that even with delay as the main goal, the most effective delay would still be to use part of their fleet offensively while part of it is defensive. The offensive part would keep Steele from completely dominating the tempo, while the defensive part covers the vital assets and is left in reserve. They might not be as offensive as they are/were trying to score a major victory, but having 2nd and 3rd fleet assets engaging Steele (or tying him down but seriously engaging his subordinates) while 1st fleet acts in reserve is a good plan. This is sort of what's happening anyway, but more than that they need these fleets to be coordinated together to have a chance.