Author Topic: Release: 3.7.0 Final  (Read 120744 times)

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Offline Echelon9

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SDL2 has changed quite a few things regarding player input; I know taylor was planning to rebuild the input handlers when SDL2 was finalized, and it's probably a good idea to do so (If only to get away from the weirdness regarding how keypresses are handled, for example).

From my work on switching to SDL2.0 already, the changes to keypresses are by far the greatest difference.

  

Offline The E

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Looking forward to that patch then. Once it's finalized, we can see about porting it to Windows.
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Offline Echelon9

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I'm writing it using heavy use of the following macro definition, so it should be seamless to drop into trunk.
From there, it would just be a case of the Windows devs progressively removing Windows specific code in favour of the already present SDL2.0 option.

Code: [Select]
#if SDL_VERSION_ATLEAST(2, 0, 0)
   // Some new SDL2.0 code
#else
   // The existing code
#endif

 

Offline Goober5000

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I'd rather not remove the Windows code.  SDL 2.0 doesn't run on Win98. :p  We can partition it off into its own corner if needed.

 

Offline redsniper

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Or maybe at some point it's okay to stop supporting 15 year old operating systems!
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Offline Mongoose

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Seriously.  I mean I'm still an XP die-hard (until the security updates die off anyway), but why in the name of cheese would you still be on 98? :p

 

Offline Zacam

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I. I don't.


Can I have an adult here please?


Mommy?


In all seriousness, I'm not one to allow for the idea of letting Windows Ninety. F'ing. Eight. impact on bringing in SDL support. So not within the scope.

If YOU want to retain codepath parity for allowance of non-SDL input for it, then YOU find a way to do it that doesn't impact on SDL's ability for cross-platform integration of it.
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Offline The E

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I'd rather not remove the Windows code.  SDL 2.0 doesn't run on Win98. :p  We can partition it off into its own corner if needed.

Do we have to have this discussion again?

I for one do not want to introduce a way to eliminate most of the OS-specific code we have in the engine, only to then have to support a codepath used by what, 2 people? 10?

Seriously, Goober, where are all these people that are still using 98, or other unsupported operating systems? What's the userbase that we keep jumping through hoops for? How big is this supposed silent portion of our userbase that cannot be bothered to update their machines in 15 years? Right now, off the top of my head, there are two people that this has an impact on. You, and that other guy that spoke up months ago to praise us for supporting old operating systems.

By the way, Goob, there's an easy solution if we move to git. You can just make a "legacy" branch and maintain all the things there. But do not expect the rest of us to care.
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Offline CommanderDJ

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I'm going to have to agree with Zacam and The E. Given the nature of SDL, continuing to support an OS that is a decade and a half old (and that hardly anyone uses) after introducing SDL seems a little counterproductive.
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Offline Luis Dias

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I am extremely amazed that FSO is actually still supporting W98.

 

Offline headdie

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We could just preserve 3.7 as an available advertised download for win 98 players, I mean as it stands it is capable of handling high detail models, more so than I think most system builds that 98 can support can handle.  It has the new pilot code, the sexp system in 3.7 is comprehensive enough that even years down the line a 3.7 user can produce complex and interesting missions,also it will probably be a couple of years before the next "stable" build anyway. in addition it will allow the project more room to optimise the engine and improve multi platform compatibility. 

personally I suggest making the new base compatibility standard as win XP as I believe there is still significant support for the os in the community
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Offline Goober5000

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As far as I'm concerned, the previous agreement is still in effect.  Since I have the most interest in maintaining Windows 98 compatibility, it's fair that I should have the responsibility to maintain it.  I specifically try to avoid burdening the other coders with unreasonable efforts in that direction.  As evidence, I cite the fact that I haven't bothered anyone with the fact that std::hash_map doesn't compile correctly on VC++6.  I am currently working on adapting the VC++6 project to use STLport rather than the library implementation of STL, which will fix this issue, but that's not quite done yet.  That's why I haven't yet posted any Win98-compatible 3.7.0 builds.

Note the wording of my post:
Quote
I'd rather not remove the Windows code. ... We can partition it off into its own corner if needed.

I don't object to the addition of SDL 2.0.  All I want is to keep the Windows code around so that I can maintain a compatibility layer.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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I also read it that way tbh.

 
I have only a basic grasp of what SDL is (something related to the renderer and input?) - what is it about 2.0 that makes it so awesome?
(Also, would it warrant bumping up the version number to 3.8? Seems a big change).

 

Offline z64555

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For our purposes, SDL will be used to handle the interfacing to all input types (keyboard, mouse, joysticks, gamepads, etc.) without needing to mess around with the old DirectInput or hardcoded joystick and mouse drivers. SDL also includes some interfacing with OpenGL, but I don't think we'll be using that part of the lib very much.

"What's wrong with the current controls, anyway?" - to that I say quite a bit. For one, FSO still doesn't support 6-axis controllers nor does it support the mousewheel. By using SDL, we not only gain these controls, but also allow for future devices that have many more axes, buttons, knobs, and stuff (think simulator-grade devices).
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Offline The E

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SDL is used to abstract some of the intricacies of hardware access (like Controller input and generating hardware contexts for rendering). Once we have SDL everywhere, we'll probably look at ways to use it even more to eliminate most of the OS-dependant stuff.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 
For our purposes, SDL will be used to handle the interfacing to all input types (keyboard, mouse, joysticks, gamepads, etc.) without needing to mess around with the old DirectInput or hardcoded joystick and mouse drivers. SDL also includes some interfacing with OpenGL, but I don't think we'll be using that part of the lib very much.

"What's wrong with the current controls, anyway?" - to that I say quite a bit. For one, FSO still doesn't support 6-axis controllers nor does it support the mousewheel. By using SDL, we not only gain these controls, but also allow for future devices that have many more axes, buttons, knobs, and stuff (think simulator-grade devices).

Will this mean I will be able to map the rotational and slider axisses from my X52 to the energy management system soon? (Please?)

 

Offline Goober5000

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"Soon" in the same sense that the pilot file code was added "soon" after 3.6.5, I would imagine.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Hopefully not quite that bad. :p

 

Offline Zarax

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Don't kill me if this is covered somewhere else please, are you guys planning a 3.7 installer as well?

Thanks!
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